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**MajorWesJanson**

ImAGeek wrote:
Was hoping there’d be longer between the Solar Auxilia box and this!

Same, like 2 to 4 weeks would have been nice.

**cole1114**

Tastyfish wrote:
warl0rdb0b wrote:
Biggest question I have is which 4 units are up for the chop. The index has 37 datasheets, the new card set is listed as 38, with 4 new units with Kroot (treating the Warshaper as a direct swap for the current Shaper). My suspicions lead me to losing the Longstrike sniper team, Aun'shi, Longstrike, and the standard Crisis commander, as most are currently out of stock online, and the Crisis commander isn't available outside of the team kit.

Aun'va is fine caste and dead in the background so I'd not be surprised if he didn't make the cut (the model working perfectly well as a Etheral on hoverdrone). Aun'shi and Longstrike I definitely think are going to be gone.
Crisis and Enforcer being combined into one could make sense, but they do like their different styles of commanders giving different leadership bonuses to the units they are attached to.

I think you could probably save a fair bit of space by consolidating the the Tidewall's sheets as the Gunrig isn't even in the store anymore.

But I can't see the sniper drones getting dropped - have we lost that many units in the past due to the finecast transition? Thought it was mostly special characters (who could conceivably be downgraded to regular characters or fancy squad sergeants/regular tank commanders).

Crisis getting combined into one makes even more sense with the different commanders, since each commander effectively turns the base crisis squad into an entirely different thing.

**Tastyfish**

cole1114 wrote:
Tastyfish wrote:
warl0rdb0b wrote:
Biggest question I have is which 4 units are up for the chop. The index has 37 datasheets, the new card set is listed as 38, with 4 new units with Kroot (treating the Warshaper as a direct swap for the current Shaper). My suspicions lead me to losing the Longstrike sniper team, Aun'shi, Longstrike, and the standard Crisis commander, as most are currently out of stock online, and the Crisis commander isn't available outside of the team kit.

Aun'va is fine caste and dead in the background so I'd not be surprised if he didn't make the cut (the model working perfectly well as a Etheral on hoverdrone). Aun'shi and Longstrike I definitely think are going to be gone.
Crisis and Enforcer being combined into one could make sense, but they do like their different styles of commanders giving different leadership bonuses to the units they are attached to.

I think you could probably save a fair bit of space by consolidating the the Tidewall's sheets as the Gunrig isn't even in the store anymore.

But I can't see the sniper drones getting dropped - have we lost that many units in the past due to the finecast transition? Thought it was mostly special characters (who could conceivably be downgraded to regular characters or fancy squad sergeants/regular tank commanders).

Crisis getting combined into one makes even more sense with the different commanders, since each commander effectively turns the base crisis squad into an entirely different thing.

That feels like a very 10th ed feature to me, rather than a relic of previous editions (even if it kind of existed before as an aura for Tau commanders).

**warl0rdb0b**

Tastyfish wrote:
cole1114 wrote:
Tastyfish wrote:
warl0rdb0b wrote:
Biggest question I have is which 4 units are up for the chop. The index has 37 datasheets, the new card set is listed as 38, with 4 new units with Kroot (treating the Warshaper as a direct swap for the current Shaper). My suspicions lead me to losing the Longstrike sniper team, Aun'shi, Longstrike, and the standard Crisis commander, as most are currently out of stock online, and the Crisis commander isn't available outside of the team kit.

Aun'va is fine caste and dead in the background so I'd not be surprised if he didn't make the cut (the model working perfectly well as a Etheral on hoverdrone). Aun'shi and Longstrike I definitely think are going to be gone.
Crisis and Enforcer being combined into one could make sense, but they do like their different styles of commanders giving different leadership bonuses to the units they are attached to.

I think you could probably save a fair bit of space by consolidating the the Tidewall's sheets as the Gunrig isn't even in the store anymore.

But I can't see the sniper drones getting dropped - have we lost that many units in the past due to the finecast transition? Thought it was mostly special characters (who could conceivably be downgraded to regular characters or fancy squad sergeants/regular tank commanders).

Crisis getting combined into one makes even more sense with the different commanders, since each commander effectively turns the base crisis squad into an entirely different thing.

That feels like a very 10th ed feature to me, rather than a relic of previous editions (even if it kind of existed before as an aura for Tau commanders).

Well, with the 3 Crisis team datasheets being added in place of the old flexible sheet, seems T'au are losing 7 old sheets, not counting the known Shaper and Crisis team ones. Might be a full cull of finecast, and consolidation of the terrain into one sheet after all.

**Overread**

I'd expect a full Finecast cull - GW don't want the material any more and heck gamers don't want it either.

Losing flexibility is also expected, just like how Warriors lost a lot of weapon build choices and several other Tyranids as well.

**Kanluwen**

Since we’re on the topic, let’s talk about Crisis Battlesuits. One of the coolest things about the current edition of Warhammer 40,000 is that every unit gets its own special ability. While this is great for most, it hits a snag when massively flexible models need an ability that suits every possible loadout. After all, a bonus that’s ideal for close-range flamers might not be nearly as effective for long-range missile pods.

Imperial strategists have addressed this issue by spreading flexible tanks like the Leman Russ or Gladiator across different datasheets, and the T’au are nothing if not quick learners.The new Codex: T’au Empire splits Crisis Battlesuits into three distinct datasheets based around classic configurations,* and veteran T’au commanders might recognise a few names from lore of yore…

The Sunforge configuration melts down heavy targets with twin fusion blasters, Fireknife battlesuits mix and match plasma rifles and missile pods to crack elite troops, and Starscythe teams choose from a buffet of burst cannons and flamers to wipe out massed hordes.

They’re all still Crisis battlesuits, but now they get custom abilities that really help out their chosen roles. Take the Crisis Sunforge Battlesuits, for instance – their Sunforge ability helps to mitigate the low rate of fire on their fusion blasters by giving powerful re-rolls against their ideal targets. With the Retaliation Cadre Detachment rule in play, you’re firing Strength 10 shots at AP-5, each dealing D6+2 damage – with a re-roll on both Wound rolls and damage!

These new distinctions have another benefit for battlesuit aficionados. No army can contain the same datasheet more than three times,** but each of these configurations is a different datasheet. That means you can squeeze up to nine Crisis teams into your roster, ready to retaliate as pre-emptively as the Greater Good demands.

Don’t worry if your own Crisis Suits have different armaments. The current datasheet will be added to Legends so you can keep using a more diverse hardpoint combination if you wish.

Commanders can join all three of these new units, and retain their own flexible weapon options – so you can outfit them according to their chosen bodyguard. Their own abilities focus on supporting the entire unit, with the Enforcer Commander lowering the Armour Penetration of incoming fire, while the Coldstar Commander turbo-boosts its allies so they can keep up with its incredible speed.

More T’au Empire rules are on their way, as the awesome Kroot Hunting Pack – which is your first chance to get your hands on Codex: T’au Empire – goes up for pre-order this Saturday.

* This also allows their points costs to more accurately reflect their equipment, rather than the priciest possible loadout.

** Unless they have the BATTLELINE keyword.

Since people don't want to use the main 40k thread for 40k news, I guess? This was for Krootical News Updates!

Anyways...
The items being removed are likely to be:
-Aun'Shi
-Aun'Va
-Commander in Crisis Battlesuit
-Kroot Shaper
-Firesight Team
-Longstrike
-Tactical Drones

**Mr Morden**

These new distinctions have another benefit for battlesuit aficionados. No army can contain the same datasheet more than three times,** but each of these configurations is a different datasheet. That means you can squeeze up to nine Crisis teams into your roster, ready to retaliate as pre-emptively as the Greater Good demands.

AKA hey we made these rules for balance but also these new rules to cheese them.... genius

**leopard**

Mr Morden wrote:
These new distinctions have another benefit for battlesuit aficionados. No army can contain the same datasheet more than three times,** but each of these configurations is a different datasheet. That means you can squeeze up to nine Crisis teams into your roster, ready to retaliate as pre-emptively as the Greater Good demands.

AKA hey we made these rules for balance but also these new rules to cheese them.... genius

see how GW used to have a "M" stat, then "simplified" the game by removing it, then had to add a stack of "special" rules to let things move at different speeds, before finally bringing the "M" stat back

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

Crisis Suit changes are..erm….a choice.

However. Given they seem aimed as specific battlefield roles (tanks, light vehicles and heavy infantry, chaff infantry) it may not be the impact I first imagine, if people tended to spec into those loadouts anyway?

**leopard**

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Crisis Suit changes are..erm….a choice.

However. Given they seem aimed as specific battlefield roles (tanks, light vehicles and heavy infantry, chaff infantry) it may not be the impact I first imagine, if people tended to spec into those loadouts anyway?

from what I have seen in recent times the general spec load out was either 3x plasma guns or 3x CIB (which it seems are flat out not an option any more, not included in the kit).

so it seems you are probably fine if you magnetised them, or are starting a new army, otherwise "sucks to be you"

sad sign of how the edition is though, flexibility is bad m'kay.. you will build as you are told to

remember always follow the instructions

anyone want a taco?

**Overread**

leopard wrote:
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Crisis Suit changes are..erm….a choice.

However. Given they seem aimed as specific battlefield roles (tanks, light vehicles and heavy infantry, chaff infantry) it may not be the impact I first imagine, if people tended to spec into those loadouts anyway?

from what I have seen in recent times the general spec load out was either 3x plasma guns or 3x CIB (which it seems are flat out not an option any more, not included in the kit).

so it seems you are probably fine if you magnetised them, or are starting a new army, otherwise "sucks to be you"

sad sign of how the edition is though, flexibility is bad m'kay.. you will build as you are told to

remember always follow the instructions

anyone want a taco?

To be fair the whole "so it seems you are probably fine if you magnetised them, or are starting a new army, otherwise "sucks to be you" has been a staple for years.

Carnifex have gone on-off being able to take two heavy weapons for years. 3rd edition they could, 4th they couldn't and then its flip flopped around since then.

It's one reason I've been big on advising people to magnetize anything a warrior or bigger because GW meses with the weapon loadout legalities all the time with units like that.

IT can be VERY annoying when GW does it and its another symptom of them rebuilding the game every edition. That said 10th is really going hard at it.
Then again I think there's other things coming in too and with armies like Tau and Tyranids where they had a good many variable weapon builds so that they'd have a few models that could do everything with different builds; there's now a very clear move toward giving those units very specific and restricted roles instead of generic. The result is that whereas you had a unit that could do multiple rules depending on loadout; now you've got it restricted to a few, which in theory leaves gaps for GW to add more models to those previous slots.

Tyranids have seen this quite a bit and whilst it can be very annoying I can see the logic in it. Far better honestly than lots of units that can all do the same thing all tripping over each other and functionally ending up with one doing better than the others and thus being the default choice every time.

**Tastyfish**

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Crisis Suit changes are..erm….a choice.

However. Given they seem aimed as specific battlefield roles (tanks, light vehicles and heavy infantry, chaff infantry) it may not be the impact I first imagine, if people tended to spec into those loadouts anyway?

I don't think anyone ever went burstcannon, flamer, support system if that's what the scythe one ends up being. Burstcannon/s and missile have had their time in the sun as the more generalist (and generally more points efficient) Fireknife, and flamers have been a common "sidearm" to dual missile Deathrains or paired up in a drop unit that is also sprinkled with more generalist guns elsewhere.

Fingers crossed it's two set weapons with the option to pick any third, as that will cover a lot of what people probably have in their collections. Customising the mechs has always been a good 50%+ of online Tau discussion (maybe 90% if you also include people trying to come up with naming systems for them after that), that Battletech style element has felt like quite a significant part of the vibe.

But really this article has cost them at least a Kroot army box sale (who am I kidding, that things going to sell out in 5-10min if not faster), as if that's what they've done to Crisis teams I'll probably continue to sit things out for 10th ed and hope for sanity and costed options to return in 11th.

**MajorWesJanson**

It looks like there will still be some flexability, just not to the degree of the old datasheet. I dont think it will be strictly burst cannon and flamer, but that as the default and can swap the burst cannon for flamer and vice versa and one per unit can swap the flamer for an airbursting frag, and the unit gets anti infantry rules,

**Kanluwen**

MajorWesJanson wrote:
It looks like there will still be some flexability, just not to the degree of the old datasheet. I dont think it will be strictly burst cannon and flamer, but that as the default and can swap the burst cannon for flamer and vice versa and one per unit can swap the flamer for an airbursting frag, and the unit gets anti infantry rules,

I wouldn't hold out hope for that. AFL isn't in the kit, just like CIB isn't.

**CMLR**

leopard wrote:
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

so it seems you are probably fine if you magnetised them, or are starting a new army, otherwise "sucks to be you"

Death to WYSIWYG.

**Haighus**

Well, could be worse. They could have replaced them all with a single "Crisis Weapons" profile...

**leopard**

Haighus wrote:
Well, could be worse. They could have replaced them all with a single "Crisis Weapons" profile...

my Death Guard shake their heads in sympathy

**Overread**

Tyranid Close Combat Warriors also got a single profile.

I still hold out that that is because GW are sitting on a new kit for them with wings included and they simply used the sprue space for the combat weapons for wings.

**Dudeface**

Haighus wrote:
Well, could be worse. They could have replaced them all with a single "Crisis Weapons" profile...

You'd have fewer people with invalid minis that way though.

**Kanluwen**

Haighus wrote:
Well, could be worse. They could have replaced them all with a single "Crisis Weapons" profile...

Or they could have Onagered them, and reduced unit sizes significantly.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Dudeface wrote:
Haighus wrote:
Well, could be worse. They could have replaced them all with a single "Crisis Weapons" profile...

You'd have fewer people with invalid minis that way though.

But just as much complaining.

**Overread**

Lets face it there's no way to take a unit with multiple weapon profiles and equipment setups that can be represented on the model and then cut out a load of those options without having people with problems.

But its also nothing new. I recall building (actually still got and yet to sell) 2 carnifex with twin heavy weapons in 3rd edition only to see them illegal in 4th. GW have been playing this fiddle for years; 10th is different only in so much that they are hitting EVERY army with a big stick of option reduction.

At the same time the armies are way bigger and GW is releasing far faster. I think GW are honestly sitting on a problem, esp with 40K, of having big, diverse modern plastic armies and having less and less room to take them in. Yes they can rework sculpts and release improved ones; but they need a good length of time for the existing ones to get "old" enough that people want to upgrade.

So what we are seeing is an en-mass simplification of unit profiles in an edition that's clearly just "Power Levels" using points maths. At the same time its likely creating tactical gaps as multi-role units are cut down in function; giving GW room to add more models to armies.

That said I do think 40K is approaching a point where GW is going to have to start spreading out sideways with more armies.

**StudentOfEtherium**

Overread wrote:

Spoiler:

Lets face it there's no way to take a unit with multiple weapon profiles and equipment setups that can be represented on the model and then cut out a load of those options without having people with problems.

But its also nothing new. I recall building (actually still got and yet to sell) 2 carnifex with twin heavy weapons in 3rd edition only to see them illegal in 4th. GW have been playing this fiddle for years; 10th is different only in so much that they are hitting EVERY army with a big stick of option reduction.

At the same time the armies are way bigger and GW is releasing far faster. I think GW are honestly sitting on a problem, esp with 40K, of having big, diverse modern plastic armies and having less and less room to take them in. Yes they can rework sculpts and release improved ones; but they need a good length of time for the existing ones to get "old" enough that people want to upgrade.

So what we are seeing is an en-mass simplification of unit profiles in an edition that's clearly just "Power Levels" using points maths. At the same time its likely creating tactical gaps as multi-role units are cut down in function; giving GW room to add more models to armies.

That said I do think 40K is approaching a point where GW is going to have to start spreading out sideways with more armies.

and tbf i think they're already doing that. since seventh, we've gotten three new flavors of CSM, GSC, Custodians, AdMech, Sisters*, Votann, and Knights. all that, plus purple flavor of CSM on the horizon. that's plenty of armies to add to, especially if they pause making new factions soon and flesh out all the recent armies of the last decade

*they always existed, but were clearly an afterthought until their modern rebirth

**Dudeface**

StudentOfEtherium wrote:
Overread wrote:

Spoiler:

Lets face it there's no way to take a unit with multiple weapon profiles and equipment setups that can be represented on the model and then cut out a load of those options without having people with problems.

But its also nothing new. I recall building (actually still got and yet to sell) 2 carnifex with twin heavy weapons in 3rd edition only to see them illegal in 4th. GW have been playing this fiddle for years; 10th is different only in so much that they are hitting EVERY army with a big stick of option reduction.

At the same time the armies are way bigger and GW is releasing far faster. I think GW are honestly sitting on a problem, esp with 40K, of having big, diverse modern plastic armies and having less and less room to take them in. Yes they can rework sculpts and release improved ones; but they need a good length of time for the existing ones to get "old" enough that people want to upgrade.

So what we are seeing is an en-mass simplification of unit profiles in an edition that's clearly just "Power Levels" using points maths. At the same time its likely creating tactical gaps as multi-role units are cut down in function; giving GW room to add more models to armies.

That said I do think 40K is approaching a point where GW is going to have to start spreading out sideways with more armies.

and tbf i think they're already doing that. since seventh, we've gotten three new flavors of CSM, GSC, Custodians, AdMech, Sisters*, Votann, and Knights. all that, plus purple flavor of CSM on the horizon. that's plenty of armies to add to, especially if they pause making new factions soon and flesh out all the recent armies of the last decade

*they always existed, but were clearly an afterthought until their modern rebirth

Honestly more armies with slightly smaller ranges might be better anyway. You'd avoid the eldar situation where they need 20-odd kits you've got to constantly cycle through to update, being able to refresh a range with a couple of medium sized waves every 5 years or so? Much more palatable I'd imagine from their eyes and sometimes for ours.

**Overread**

Honestly I think part of the issue 40K has with updating models is more because GW over-focused on Marines for a time. Management wise GW went through a maximum return on investment phase.

This I think resulted in policies and choices that left a good many armies in 40K and Old World without updates for far longer than normal. The result is armies like Eldar slipping behind the curve considerably.

You also had the utter mess that was finecast which messed up a lot of models and I think for a time left GW without enough money to invest into shorter term plastic moulds; and not another cheaper suitable material to replace finecast with.

IT seems they've now moved to a position where they can replace it with regular plastics and are doing so. Hence why we are suddenly seeing so much catch-up happening all across the armies.

Tyranids are pretty much done. Necrons have the destroyers and then just a selection of named special characters; Tau were fairly modern to start with and with the Kroot getting a big update that's a lot of them done; Orks I'm less hot with what's needing and not needing updates.
Eldar are honestly just the ones that drew the short straw and came latter in the waves.

**StudentOfEtherium**

even eldar are doing pretty fine these days. more and more aspect warriors in plastic, plus guardians, rangers, etc means GW just needs to finish the set, give them their characters, and rework vehicles (but maybe this just the perspective of a new player, for whom that new guardian kit has always* existed)

*as long as ive been in the hobby

**CMLR**

Just reset Warhammer 40K already, not like AoS which is actually a sequel; a full reset.

Done.

/sarcasm?

**Dudeface**

CMLR wrote:
Just reset Warhammer 40K already, not like AoS which is actually a sequel; a full reset.

Done.

/sarcasm?

Honestly if they could just go do that, roll back game sizes, lethality and table sizes back to 4thish standards, that'll do.

**Hulksmash**

This always makes me laugh a bit. Game sizes right now arn't to far off from 4th. In 4th I had 150+ nid armies that had 6 "big bugs" or 120 model ork armies that included 40 bikes. Table was bigger. But honestly the smaller table is forcing more engagement than we got pre-table reduction.

**Dudeface**

Hulksmash wrote:
This always makes me laugh a bit. Game sizes right now arn't to far off from 4th. In 4th I had 150+ nid armies that had 6 "big bugs" or 120 model ork armies that included 40 bikes. Table was bigger. But honestly the smaller table is forcing more engagement than we got pre-table reduction.

Were you playing the intended 1500 points in 4th? My chaos forces were definitely smaller. That said the erosion of restrictions on weapons/shooting over the years has done far more damage imo than anything else.

**Hulksmash**

The US was playing I wanna say 1850 at that time?