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I think you guys have convinced me to throw in a unit or two of "elites" devs. I'll have to cut down on the terminators though.

Now that I'm well underway into putting together an assaulty LatD army, this is a little disconcerting.  I guess the question becomes "How reliable a deployment system is this?"  I'm talking about putting it where you want to.  I know what the odds end up being (1/3 hit, 1/9 being an inch off, etc), but can you reliably put walls down to block approaching troops, or do they act more like pinball bumpers?

I do a DIY list and I use "Honor your wargear" too. I was thinking one AT Dev w/TH, one AP Dev w/INF. 2 Whirlwinds and 1 Vinde in heavy urban terrain. Cut off roads with the mines and make themy come to the Devs and Vinde.

Posted By jeremycobert on 03/06/2006 10:35 AM
here is an argument i tried to make, but nobody is going along with me on this.
castellans are listed as ordnance barrage. and pg 32 BBB says you take pin test for taking a wound from an ordnance barrage weapon. so taking a wound while crossing the mine field should cause a pin check.

but nobody in my group is willing to go along with that.

The Castellan missile is an ordnance barrage weapon, but it does no damage.  It is essentially a STR 0 weapon.  They made it an ordnance barrage weapon instead of giving the Castellan missile special rules for firing that mimics ordnance barrage weapons.

The minefield deployed by the Castellan missile is not an ordnance barrage weapon.

What happens when a mine field lands on another mine field?

it stacks

How does it stack?

You roll twice to see if you got hit.

Yes, it's that horrible.

Models are the only things that keep other mines from deploying on top. Minefields aren't models. Thus, you can stack.

Wow thats umm disgusting....ooh and then you play that list on a take and hold, with mine fields...true killing fields

I was sitting at home reading my codex, reflecting on this thread and how wicked you can make Whirlwinds when I noticed a little passage in the Castellian mine rules. They are not a barrage weapon, they just fire like one. YOU CAN target units "as usual" and roll for scatter. In effect dropping minefield on top of units that must then move to get out of them. My most effective example would be to drop a castellian mine on a unit of rough riders waiting to counter charge and as soon as they do ...Kablooey!!

I know the old Tau codex had a few vehicle rules to counter mines, but does the new one?
Hmmmmm, I might have to get another whirlwind or convert over another old rhino.

BTW, Mauleed. What happened to your other whirlwind on CMON, the tan camo one? (That was yours, right?)


-Hans

My most effective example would be to drop a castellian mine on a unit of rough riders waiting to counter charge and as soon as they do ...Kablooey!!

Yup, that sounds dead sexy. Or on anything has compulsory movement. Heehee.

Oh, hey, Smoke3 - fnord.

Cheers

Bah thats what my Grots are for. Good thing I take 60 since if Mauleed does it, I know a few guys here that will.

<div class="NTForums_Quote">Posted By Crawdadr on 03/23/2006 1:58 AM<br>Bah thats what my Grots are for. Good thing I take 60 since if Mauleed does it, I know a few guys here that will.</div><br><br>

How exactly do grots help against mines?

<div class="NTForums_Quote">Posted By mauleed on 03/23/2006 8:17 AM<br><div class="NTForums_Quote">Posted By Crawdadr on 03/23/2006 1:58 AM<br>Bah thats what my Grots are for. Good thing I take 60 since if Mauleed does it, I know a few guys here that will.</div><br><br>

How exactly do grots help against mines?</div><br><br>

I believe they can take some wounds to clear a minefield as a special rule.

That's awesome. I never noticed. (since before whirlwinds, who had minefields?) I was also reminded last night that guard have mine clearers for tanks.

The obvious countertactic though is to drop the mines close and shoot the grots first, then they won't have the numbers to clear the field and the orks will have to walk over them.

Flippin' sweet though.

Yeah the guard thing is a vehicle upgrade I've always ignored since minefields don't come into play much if at all. Grots are good all purpose though.

Same with the old tau codex, its a vehicle upgrade that only sets off mines with a roll of 6. Also detects a couple of IG and Tyranid things, but except in those situations is useless so you're not going to see it too often.

But even in the case that people have these things available in the codex, its not something many people will actually have fielded on their lists at all. I had always thought they were a neat idea but never really thought it through all the way. That is one potentially brutal thing to base a list around.

-Hans

Just threw this together thinking abt the list:

Master, pwr swd, bp.
3x Whirlies
3x 'Nadoes
3x 8man Las/Plas, Pwr Fst Tacs.
2x 8man Devs with 4 HBs.

1500

Could work......maybe.

Ok, reading this thread leaves me with two questions:

First, nearly everyone (including me) agrees that a 3 Whirlwind minefield list is a cool, potentially powerful idea. However, has anyone actually played a list like the ones discussed here? Has anyone actually tried 3 Whirlies? Because until someone, all we're doing is speculating. (Not that I have any problem with speculating. I like speculating).

2nd, can or can't the Whirlwind place a minefield on an enemy unit? I read the codex and I think it can, but it seems like the power of the list is greatly affected by wheter or not you can do this, especially against assault armies.

About the list above, it looks pretty good. Remember, if you're going to take extra dev squads w/ the trait (b/c your whirlies are taking all your HS slots), you need to give them either tank hunters (probably) or infiltrate. Not sure how well HBs work w/ either of those traits. Other than that, I like it.

I had another thought- although the miens are str6.....the str5 regular shots are ap4 tho...without the fact that only 50% of them will go off. Does anyone know how effective the mines actually are against smart opponents? I was thinking- vs nids for example...
vs stealers?
I'd have serious thoughts about taking the Castellans instead to get rid of pesky extended carapace.

Well, the comparison of the S5 AP4 shots to the minefield is apples to bowlingballs, since the minefields purpose is actually to force the unit to go around them, thereby letting them get shot an extra turn, not to actually kill them. If someone must go over them, that's just icing on the cake.

I think someone asked a ways back what good Grots are in minefields. They are a cheap way of clearing them by having them take the casualties instead of the Orks.

That was me. I cracked the book open and took a look. That was certainly an interesting suprise. Go Orks!

I have two whirlies and often field both of them (just did last night and got a shellacking but that was not because of the whirlies) They are great if you are fighting an army that has to move, that said Tau, IG and some Eldar (whom I was fighting yesterday) don't really have to move. Also, it helps if you are playing only on 6x4 tables, once you get bigger they aren't as useful. But hey, at 85pts who can argue? One of the biggest drawbacks of taking 2-3 of them is that you don't have spots open for predators.

Give them a shot Ed, you can buy whirlies pretty cheap on eBay, I think you will be impressed at the results.

All of my rhinos convert, so I could have 6 whirlwinds if I wanted.

How do you convert your Rhinos into Whirlwinds?

You don't glue down the top hatch.

That way I out of one Rhino I get:

Ultramarine rhino

Ultramarine Razorback

Ultramarine Whirwind

Sisters of Ultramar (I have Ultramarines, Ultramar PDF, and Sisters of Ultramar) Rhino (top hatches with the Flor' de whatever it's called)

Sisters of Ultramar Exorcist.

And I'm sure I could convert that flamer tank if I wanted.