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Note that the Exterminator Autocannons and Hydra Autocannons are twin-linked, so they reroll their wound roll.
Since they are S9 that means they have a
88,8% chance (a bit better then 2+) to wound S5-8
75% chance (2,5+) to wound S9
55,5% chance (4+) to wound S10-S17

=> all in all those are pretty nice odds regarding wounding.
Combine with Fields of fire and the "withering hail" ability of the Exterminator and you have AP-3 Autocannons that wound pretty good.

 Pyroalchi wrote:

Combine with Fields of fire and the "withering hail" ability of the Exterminator and you have AP-3 Autocannons that wound pretty good.

And the Hydra has Anti-Fly, not Anti-Aircraft.
Meaning you got the hilarious situation where you're wounding a Monolith on a 2+ and they're saving on a 5+.

Played a game of 10th yesterday. I definitely felt the pain with my infantry-borne AT weapons, but my brother likes to run a tank/Armiger-heavy list. Currently looking at a FOB for those two shots of S14 shooting with Sustained Hits or a HWS.

I also have a Vanquisher in my collection, which seems to be...ok in that regard, but I don't have it on site rn.

3x2 field ordnance battery
with heavy lascannons (= 12 shots)

Detachment (Lethal) + Faction/Order (BS4+) + Stationary (+1BS, Sustained)

= an average of 22 wounds against an Imperial Knight

That's strong !

 RenegadeKorps wrote:
3x2 field ordnance battery
with heavy lascannons (= 12 shots)

Detachment (Lethal) + Faction/Order (BS4+) + Stationary (+1BS, Sustained)

= an average of 22 wounds against an Imperial Knight

That's strong !

The problem is that's too strong.

Sustained hits + reroll 1s to hit from a scout sentinel will cause 12 shots hitting on a 3+ to yield an average of 11.66 hits. That's better than 23 lascannons hitting on a 4+

The other player will know how deadly they are and priori tize them as a target. 6W T5 and a 4+ save will die fast to enemy fire. They are slow, need to remain still for the +1 to hit, fragile, and your opponent will definitely prioritize them.

You can add 3x3 heavy weapons teams. With the same special rules, you are looking at 14 wounds a Knight.
With the field ordnance batteries, it's only 480 points.

Do you guys think the Aegis defence line is worth it at 145 points? Seems expensive, but I planned to play an Infantry list. 4++ to everything seems good. (It reminds me of the Void Shield Generator era ! I loved that model.)

Also, what about many Astropaths to deny all reinforcements within 12''?

In general, what a competitive army list based on infantry unit would look like?

Can someone confirm me that I can combined the Exterminator canon ap-1 ability with the Field of fire Stratagem, for a total of ap-2 ? Thanks ! Weapon with no ap would be twice as deadly !

 RenegadeKorps wrote:
Can someone confirm me that I can combined the Exterminator canon ap-1 ability with the Field of fire Stratagem, for a total of ap-2 ? Thanks ! Weapon with no ap would be twice as deadly !

I can't see anything in the commentaries or the rule wording that stops them from stacking.

 Trickstick wrote:

 RenegadeKorps wrote:
Can someone confirm me that I can combined the Exterminator canon ap-1 ability with the Field of fire Stratagem, for a total of ap-2 ? Thanks ! Weapon with no ap would be twice as deadly !

I can't see anything in the commentaries or the rule wording that stops them from stacking.

I would start by shooting something small and regiment like a 10 man infantry squad to get free fields of fire from Ursula.
Then shoot the exterminator and enjoy AP-2 on the damage 3 on the 8 autocannon shots.
Then start unloading other sources of twin linked AP-3 autocannons from sources like a Hydra. 2+ armor saves in cover are now saving on a 4+ and probably also a 4+ invulnerable.
Manticores and Basilisk become AP-4 if they have a 5+ invulnerable we can reduce them to

Light anti tank guard weapons seem like a dire threat with that extra 2AP

Reducing a 1+ to a 6 with AP3 weapons becoming AP5 would be hilarious when it happens, but in general anything worth throwing 2CP and an exterminator into to soften in up is going to have a beefy invulnerable save.

Sometimes it is nice to simply scare the big thing your opponent has.

chaos0xomega wrote:
Also annoying is that you're capped at 1 of each special weapon per 5 models, instead of 2 each - but only scions, regular infantry squads don't have this limitation at all(Cadian/Death Korps do, but per 10 models) and Kasrkin are allowed 2 each regardless of the size of the unit.

i think its just the fixed limitations being put in different places?

regular inf squads can only have 1 special weapon per 10 troops, so they max at 2 of a given weapon total in a 20 man squad which is the same as korps and cadains. kasrkin can only be fielded as 10 man squads so they have 2 per 10 troops which is the same as scions.

I really like the following combination of units:
- infantry squad with two heavy weapons
- Cadian castellan with the drill commander enhancement
- command squad with heavy weapon

Lots of ablative wounds. On a 5+ you get an additional hit out of each weapon, which is really good and pays of great with a lascannon. Factoring in the born soldiers trait, one lascannon shot in average will automatically wound, and two more hits can be expected as well. The only requirement is to remain stationary, which you want to do anyway with the heavy weapons.
Add in the AP shenanigans mentioned above this seems really good to me. Your opponent must invest quite some anti-infantry to get read if these, and a medic in the command squad may provide some additional resilience.

Additionally, I really like the regimental priest in a catachan squad for some unexpected S4 AP-1 attacks. Sustained hits in a 20 models unit can might actually pay off (even if the guy costs about a fourth of the entire squad)

I'm sort of liking this:

20x dkok, 6 specials, 2 medics (pending)
Marshal
Primaris Psyker

Gives you 5+, 4++, 5+++, for a very durable infantry blob. Possible 2d3 regen a round, if they fix the medic issue. Decent damage output if it loses 12 models, and the medic is "up to", so you are never forced to lose your bonus with healing.

It's really interesting that, only using different infantry squads, it is possible to build quite the flexible list.
The death Korps Marshall is quite the interesting choice with his 5+++. I bet we will see a lot of that character.

 Trickstick wrote:
I'm sort of liking this:

20x dkok, 6 specials, 2 medics (pending)
Marshal
Primaris Psyker

Gives you 5+, 4++, 5+++, for a very durable infantry blob. Possible 2d3 regen a round, if they fix the medic issue. Decent damage output if it loses 12 models, and the medic is "up to", so you are never forced to lose your bonus with healing.

Sounds good for taking a mid field objective.

I'm not sure what I want attached to Lord Solar and Ursula.

Lord Solar needs a PCS master vox so I'm leaning DKOK for the medi pack over regular infantry for the heavy weapons.

Ursula doesn't need a master vox as much so it's PCS, Marshal, or Primaris. If she's going to babysit a couple of mortar HWS or bombast to dump free fields of fire on their targets regular infantry squads are probably best which makes Marshal v Primaris v save points and trynto hide out of LOS with the squad a difficult choice.

 Trickstick wrote:
I'm sort of liking this:
Possible 2d3 regen a round, if they fix the medic issue.

I don't see how the unit can be affected twice by the same ability. I think they forbid it in the Commentary.

That's a durable unit ! My only concern is that the two characters are almost the price of another 20-man squad.

 RenegadeKorps wrote:

 Trickstick wrote:
I'm sort of liking this:
Possible 2d3 regen a round, if they fix the medic issue.

I don't see how the unit can be affected twice by the same ability. I think they forbid it in the Commentary.

That's a durable unit ! My only concern is that the two characters are almost the price of another 20-man squad.

Commentary said core abilities don't stack. Same named aura's don't stack.

If it's not aura nor found in core abilities and rule doesn't prevent stacking.

tneva82 wrote:

Commentary said core abilities don't stack. Same named aura's don't stack.

If it's not aura nor found in core abilities and rule doesn't prevent stacking.

Considering the wide description offered for Core abilities (''most models, units, weapons or attacks either have one or more of them innately, or can gain them during the battle through other means such as Stratagems, Enhancements or attached Leaders''), I don't see why wargear abilities would not be Core abilities. A unit containing a medical-pack has ''innately'' the rule. (In a datasheet, there are indeed abilities preceded by the word ''core'' (like ''leader''), but clearly GW does not have only them in mind.) Anyway ! I don't want to resurrect too much DKoK models : I want their wounding bonus !

Yeah my reading of the medi-pack ability allows it to be used twice, and I can't find a commentary restriction on wargear abilities.

I understand that the unit costs as much as 40 korpsmen, but I think it more than doubles their effectiveness.4++, 5+++, plus the psychic attack and order you can use, makes the dkok so much better.

 Trickstick wrote:
I'm sort of liking this:

20x dkok, 6 specials, 2 medics (pending)
Marshal
Primaris Psyker

Gives you 5+, 4++, 5+++, for a very durable infantry blob. Possible 2d3 regen a round, if they fix the medic issue. Decent damage output if it loses 12 models, and the medic is "up to", so you are never forced to lose your bonus with healing.

Just for funsies, though really expensive, attach a Hades drill, an ogryn bodyguard, and deep strike the whole thing on your opponents backfield.

M.

Problem with deepstrike or transports is that you don't get to do orders on the turn you come in, which is a massive flaw.

You could rapid ingress them, although you have to survive a turn. Maybe drop them into hiding.

With the psyker, a bodyguard to tank wounds, and a Krieg Commander that unit will need a lot of dedicated firepower to budge. Plus two medics bringing back 2d3 kriegs tells me surviving won't be an issue I think.

M.

 Trickstick wrote:
Yeah my reading of the medi-pack ability allows it to be used twice, and I can't find a commentary restriction on wargear abilities.

Okay, I think you guys are right. It's not really a rule stacking with itself, since you would bring back 2d3 models anyway with two separate 10-man squads.

But where is the option to include the medi-pack in the first ? It is missing from the DKoK datasheet.

 RenegadeKorps wrote:
But where is the option to include the medi-pack in the first ? It is missing from the DKoK datasheet.

There isn't one. Dkok can't equip medipacks right now, going by raw. I would not be shocked for them to get 1 per 10 men though, as that is what is in the box (and we know how GW love box loadouts). I know a fair few people are playing it as 2 per 20 right now.

Reading trough the rules and costs for our FW-tanks, and I'm actually finding myself rather surprised that some of them look viable.

The Macharius BT which has always been inferior to two Leman Russes, or simply been a worse version of the Dorn, actually looks pretty solid at 310 pts with it's current rules doesn't it?

The regular Malcador for 250 pts also looks pretty good, but then I noticed that it's Battle Cannon is S9 which surely must be a typo?

The Valdor is pricey an not very killy for it's cost, but since it now boosts the same defensive profile as a Macharius it's one though nut to crack. Re-roll damage rolls helps its otherwise rather lackluster damage output.

The Malcador Infernus however, feels like a bizarre joke at 235 pts for whats essentially a pimped up Heavy Flamer. Ah well, guess you can't win every time...

Aww. The Cyclops now hits only 1 enemy unit when detonated and "only" for d3-d6 mortals. But on the other hand detonating it got a bit easier.
On the plus side it only has to end its move within 3'', so you should be able to use advance and charge moves and there might be some shananigans when disembarking from transports.

Still, I miss the unlikely, but looming thread of the old Demolition Charge blowing a big hole in a whole bunch of units.

And regarding the infernus: I just bought one lol. But yes, the profile of its Inferno gun looks hilariously weak for such a massive weapon.

Rapier are hilariously under costed at the same price as a HWS.

The cheaper FW earth shaker carriage seems to be balanced ok with the regular basilisk. It's about 64% of the cost for the same gun but 1 lower BS, less tough, and slow. It can receive regiment orders but it lacks the vehicle keyword to shoot if it gets locked in CC.

The beauty of basilisk is it can independently operate away from supporting units while the earth shaker and Medusa carriage need nearby officers. The internal balance seems good in this edition.

 Pyroalchi wrote:
Aww. The Cyclops now hits only 1 enemy unit when detonated and "only" for d3-d6 mortals. But on the other hand detonating it got a bit easier.
On the plus side it only has to end its move within 3'', so you should be able to use advance and charge moves and there might be some shananigans when disembarking from transports.

Still, I miss the unlikely, but looming thread of the old Demolition Charge blowing a big hole in a whole bunch of units.

Yeah, my Cyclops will stay on the shelf this edition. Scout Sentinels are a better use of 50 points.

Hmm... if I see correctly they at least had the decency to drop the Cyclops to 25 points.
25 points for an average of 2 mortals if you can get it within 3''... I don't know. Maybe? There should be some matchups where that is enough to win back their points and the condition to bring it to explode at least sound a little bit more doable.

 Pyroalchi wrote:
Hmm... if I see correctly they at least had the decency to drop the Cyclops to 25 points.
25 points for an average of 2 mortals if you can get it within 3''... I don't know. Maybe? There should be some matchups where that is enough to win back their points and the condition to bring it to explode at least sound a little bit more doable.

I'd take it to do secondaries honestly. For 25 points you could just hide it in another table quarter.