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Oooh!

An exorcist nerf ... Just what we needed... Winning far too many tournaments recently with those things

 J.Black wrote:
Oooh!

An exorcist nerf ... Just what we needed... Winning far too many tournaments recently with those things

GW just increased points for all non-los units (except admech's scorpius). They just ignored overall balance of exact index.

Our poor Exorcist just cannot have its time in the sun for more than a few minutes it seems. Honestly though, I am fine with points nerfs for indirect fire at the moment (maybe in a later balance pass or points update they will do more to curb the units that really need it, the Exorcist I think was fine when taken in the context of the faction as a whole) but it started 9th edition at 170 for the Exorcist Missile Launcher and then slowly came down to around 150 which is where it should be now as far as I can see. Last edition it really needed to be priced somewhere around 125-135 at most but 140 for a T10, 36" range, S10, D6 damage indirect fire option was probably just about right for it. I think at most it should have gotten hit with about a 20 point nerf similar to most of the Guard indirect units. I still think I will be taking at least 1-2 in most lists, but again, a 30 point hike just seems like too much for our only indirect fire option. If they had nerfed it to 150 or 160 points I think you still would have seen 2-3 in many lists but it would have at least paid the premium that they usually want. Additionally, now it is almost completely useless to use the Conflagration Rockets, the Missiles are pretty much the only weapon you take on it now. Not like I was taking anything other than the missiles since the 8th edition book dropped, but now, similar to Field Ordnance batteries, the rockets are just paying a premium for what the missiles do so might as well only take missiles 99% of the time unless you know you are ONLY facing 250-300 model horde armies. Also, unlike much of the other indirect, the range nerf on it from 48 to 36 inch range really makes it pretty meh in direct firefights with other indirect units that probably outrange it by at least a foot or more.

I am not saying the Exorcist was holding the faction together but it was one of our best ways to deal with most light-medium vehicles, so I think they should have a bit less heavy handed with its points nerfs. 150 or 160 for what it does is a price I would usually pay, but 170 starts to put it into 1-2 territory, with 2 being a max for me. At least I don't feel like I have to get a 3rd now!

I think I have just accepted that early 10th is gonna be a bit of a slog for us, and hopefully by the time our codex is out they have worked out most of the "kinks" in the edition so that way we join a pretty "balanced" roster of other books, with plenty of interesting and fairly costed choices. As far as I can see, no vehicle we have right now should really cost above 150 even with an indirect premium, hopefully with enough points updates we find the Exorcist back there soon enough.

With the way so many different weapon options got rolled into a single profile for many armies, I had hoped that Exorcists would simply allow you to choose which missile to use when firing rather than at army construction.

I suppose there's still a slim chance that this occurs come Codex time, but that will be a while yet.

young_chemist wrote:

 J.Black wrote:
Oooh!

An exorcist nerf ... Just what we needed... Winning far too many tournaments recently with those things

GW just increased points for all non-los units (except admech's scorpius). They just ignored overall balance of exact index.

Take Cassie.

Well, we can keep sitting around feeling sorry for ourselves that the Exorcist got nerfed, or we can get our heads in the game and try to figure out ways to make our lists work in our brave new meta. To that end, I've been tinkering with lists and came up with this one:

Obviously this is pretty rough, I came up with it using only the models I own currently. I need to probably lay my hands on a couple of Immolators stat. I was also wondering if I should drop the utility Assassins for an enhancement or two. Yes I realize Crusaders are cheaper, but I don't currently have any (might 3d print some though; the GW ones look like ass).

Lammia wrote:

young_chemist wrote:

 J.Black wrote:
Oooh!

An exorcist nerf ... Just what we needed... Winning far too many tournaments recently with those things

GW just increased points for all non-los units (except admech's scorpius). They just ignored overall balance of exact index.

Take Cassie.

Castigator's still worse.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ZergSmasher wrote:
Well, we can keep sitting around feeling sorry for ourselves that the Exorcist got nerfed, or we can get our heads in the game and try to figure out ways to make our lists work in our brave new meta. To that end, I've been tinkering with lists and came up with this one:

Spoiler:

Hallowed Martyrs Detachment
Morvenn Vahl
3 Paragon Warsuits (Vahl goes here obviously)
Canoness: Power Weapon, Plasma Pistol, Rod of Office
10 Battle Sisters: Combi-weapon and Power Weapon on Superior, Meltagun, Multi-melta, Simulacrum (attach Canoness here)
10 Battle Sisters: Combi-weapon and Power Weapon on Superior, Meltagun, Multi-melta, Simulacrum
10 Battle Sisters: Combi-weapon and Power Weapon on Superior, Meltagun, Multi-melta, Simulacrum
Saint Celestine
10 Zephyrim (Celestine goes here)
Palatine
10 Dominions: 4x AC Storm Bolter, Combi-weapon and Power Weapon on Superior (Palatine goes here)
5 Retributors: 4x Multi-melta, Combi-weapon and Power Weapon on Superior
Dialogus (attach to Retributors)
Triumph of Saint Katherine
Exorcist: Exorcist Missile Launcher, HK Missile
2 Death Cult Assassins
Sororitas Rhino: HK Missile
Sororitas Rhino: HK Missile
Sororitas Rhino: HK Missile

Obviously this is pretty rough, I came up with it using only the models I own currently. I need to probably lay my hands on a couple of Immolators stat. I was also wondering if I should drop the utility Assassins for an enhancement or two. Yes I realize Crusaders are cheaper, but I don't currently have any (might 3d print some though; the GW ones look like ass).

I think if you're taking Dominions, Canonesses, or more than 2 units of battle Sisters, you're creating a hole the rest of the army has to dig you out of.

We currently have 2 big things going for us: Seraphim are great, and the exorcist is still decent...enough.

Our best lists are going to be Go-wide MSU that focuses on using Seraphim to score secondaries and clear out infantry and the Exorcist to shave down their big guns with lots of miracle dice.

I'm still not sold on Morvenn and her unit, but if I was going to take her, it would looks something like this:

Morvenn 135
Triumph 150
Exorcist 170
Exorcist 170
Paragons 240
Crusaders 3x2 60
BSS 110
Seraphim 70 hF
Seraphim 140 hF
Seraphim 140 hF
Celestine 150
Zephyrim 140
Retributors 130
Dialogus 60
Immolator 130

How do we feel about Sacresants?

I have been trying to make them work for the last few games because fellow Sisters players at my FLGS (including one who I actually "trained" a bit when they first started playing the army) keep saying they are "GOOD." I have tried them with a Palatine mostly, trying to give them lethal hits on those mostly S4 and S5 attacks along with the -1 to wound, but I am thinking of a Canoness with them just to help them reroll hits and get every ounce of damage through. I really would LIKE to try them with an Imagifier just so they can go back to feeling as tanky as they should be, but it really irks me that ONLY Battle Sisters can take multiple characters in them. This seemed like an obvious combo that SHOULD be in the index, with a Canoness/Palatine+ Imagifier leading the unit as the Imagifier should read that it can be attached to a Battle Sisters OR Sacresants squad even if a Canoness/Palatine is already leading them. -1 to wound, 2+/4++ on a T3 unit really does not feel that busted at all. I have tried footslogging a unit of 10 as well as throwing them in a Rhino to get up the board and both times it just has not gone well. That 3+ save on them just really makes them so much squishier than previously. They either get shot by indirect of course if I footslog through cover, or their ride gets shot up quickly and they end up getting charged and neutered before they can do much. I am definitely playing them as if they had a 2+ save still thinking that -1 to wound will be enough but I am finding more and more that its just not. My list for my game tomorrow doesn't have them as I am trying out more Seraphim just to see how best to use them to clear objectives and "move shoot move" (not as many as you suggest in your list ERJAK as I just do not have enough hand flamer models/Seraphim for more than 2-3 minimum squads or 1 max and 1 minimum squad at most) but I want to return to Sacresants at some point and figure out how to make them work as midfield objective holders/sturdy-ish walls that the enemy has to deal with in the early turns at least. I have heard that giving them all maces and putting Thurga and Dolan in the unit is one way to make them really punch up with Devastating Wounds and dealing 2 mortals on each wound roll of a 6 (or just by using an MD on them) but I really do not want to get those models and I am strictly trying to play with what I have outside of a Dialogus I picked up for the combo with the Rets. Even then, do we think the Devastating Wounds combo is good enough to warrant those leaders?

Just to clarify, as I said, I am mostly trying to play with my relatively decent collection at this point without picking up a bunch of new models as GW probably wants me to. While Thurga and Dolan, the Triumph, and the Ministorum Auxillary models are all pretty cool in their own way, I really just have the rest of the line along with a Preacher or two that could be proxied as either a Preacher or Missionary, some Mortifiers and Penitent Engines (2 of each) and a few Arcos that I happened to pick up in the combat patrol I got last edition (so no Crusaders or DCAs). I easily have most of the characters other than the ones I mentioned above, about 150+ Sisters models of varying kinds (bolters, SBs, flamers, meltas Superiors with chainswords and combis, and at least 4-8 of each of the heavy variants of each special weapon) along with 2 of each vehicle other than the Cassie that I only have one of plus 2 squads of Warsuits. It is by no means a "small" collection, but something like the Triumph that seems almost like an "auto include" is just something I am not interested in getting right now so I would rather work with lists that can be made up of my collection.

Sorry for the tangent! Anyway, any ideas on how to make Sacresants work right now would be appreciated! Thanks!

GFdoubles wrote:
How do we feel about Sacresants?

Spoiler:

I have been trying to make them work for the last few games because fellow Sisters players at my FLGS (including one who I actually "trained" a bit when they first started playing the army) keep saying they are "GOOD." I have tried them with a Palatine mostly, trying to give them lethal hits on those mostly S4 and S5 attacks along with the -1 to wound, but I am thinking of a Canoness with them just to help them reroll hits and get every ounce of damage through. I really would LIKE to try them with an Imagifier just so they can go back to feeling as tanky as they should be, but it really irks me that ONLY Battle Sisters can take multiple characters in them. This seemed like an obvious combo that SHOULD be in the index, with a Canoness/Palatine+ Imagifier leading the unit as the Imagifier should read that it can be attached to a Battle Sisters OR Sacresants squad even if a Canoness/Palatine is already leading them. -1 to wound, 2+/4++ on a T3 unit really does not feel that busted at all. I have tried footslogging a unit of 10 as well as throwing them in a Rhino to get up the board and both times it just has not gone well. That 3+ save on them just really makes them so much squishier than previously. They either get shot by indirect of course if I footslog through cover, or their ride gets shot up quickly and they end up getting charged and neutered before they can do much. I am definitely playing them as if they had a 2+ save still thinking that -1 to wound will be enough but I am finding more and more that its just not. My list for my game tomorrow doesn't have them as I am trying out more Seraphim just to see how best to use them to clear objectives and "move shoot move" (not as many as you suggest in your list ERJAK as I just do not have enough hand flamer models/Seraphim for more than 2-3 minimum squads or 1 max and 1 minimum squad at most) but I want to return to Sacresants at some point and figure out how to make them work as midfield objective holders/sturdy-ish walls that the enemy has to deal with in the early turns at least. I have heard that giving them all maces and putting Thurga and Dolan in the unit is one way to make them really punch up with Devastating Wounds and dealing 2 mortals on each wound roll of a 6 (or just by using an MD on them) but I really do not want to get those models and I am strictly trying to play with what I have outside of a Dialogus I picked up for the combo with the Rets. Even then, do we think the Devastating Wounds combo is good enough to warrant those leaders?

Just to clarify, as I said, I am mostly trying to play with my relatively decent collection at this point without picking up a bunch of new models as GW probably wants me to. While Thurga and Dolan, the Triumph, and the Ministorum Auxillary models are all pretty cool in their own way, I really just have the rest of the line along with a Preacher or two that could be proxied as either a Preacher or Missionary, some Mortifiers and Penitent Engines (2 of each) and a few Arcos that I happened to pick up in the combat patrol I got last edition (so no Crusaders or DCAs). I easily have most of the characters other than the ones I mentioned above, about 150+ Sisters models of varying kinds (bolters, SBs, flamers, meltas Superiors with chainswords and combis, and at least 4-8 of each of the heavy variants of each special weapon) along with 2 of each vehicle other than the Cassie that I only have one of plus 2 squads of Warsuits. It is by no means a "small" collection, but something like the Triumph that seems almost like an "auto include" is just something I am not interested in getting right now so I would rather work with lists that can be made up of my collection.

Sorry for the tangent! Anyway, any ideas on how to make Sacresants work right now would be appreciated! Thanks!

So the best way to run Sacresants right now, is to clear a nice spot on a shelf or bookcase, preferably with clean lighting but not too much direct sunlight, and set them so that the beautiful models really look their best.

And then leave them there until the codex comes out.

There is currently no use for Sacresants, your friends are wrong.

If by making them 'work' you mean using them as damage dealers, I don't think you will get them to.

Our index isn't just underpowered, it's straight up poorly designed and badly written. Broadly speaking we should have damage dealing units, damage soaking units, and some units that fall in the middle. On top of that we should have options that allow us to push units in one direction or another not only to give us balance and flexibility, but also to give us the opportunity to double down on extreme damage or survivability.

With a couple of exceptions everything falls into the hybrid use category with the added insult of the upgrade option generally only being good at pushing units back towards the middle ground.

Sacresants perhaps epitomise this poor design the best. Sure, they can absorb a bit more damage, and pump out more wounds than our other options; but both these are still very middling in the larger context of our forces. Repentia massively out damage them, and I'd argue that Arcos are just as survivable with their 2W and 4+ FNP. Yes we can take a character to push the sacresants a little bit in either direction, but for some reason we are denied the option of doubling down on either the survivability or damage output.

We have better options for dealing damage. Repentia, Arcos, seraphim, Zephyrim, exorcists, mortifiers all hit harder and can be further tuned in that direction. Sacresants can be used as a tarpit to some extent, but the lack of leader options and the unit size restrictions kinda put the brakes on this.

If you have to take them to use your collection, I would honestly just stick a min squad with a palatine somewhere near a midfield objective and use them either as a counter charge threat or a speedbump for a more threatening unit.

I do not have enough Exorcists in my collection currently, and my hobby dollars are sparse for the next few months, so would a Castigator fit into a similar role even if it isn't as good?

Or extra Immolators?

 Vilgeir wrote:
I do not have enough Exorcists in my collection currently, and my hobby dollars are sparse for the next few months, so would a Castigator fit into a similar role even if it isn't as good?

Or extra Immolators?

Both of those are good. Exos just got more of a glow up because they got Indirect fire

I just want to check that I am not missing anything. I have a fun army that is heavily flamer-based. Am I right in thinking that none of the character units do anything offensively for flamers? If I have a retributor squad with four heavy flamers then, as far as I can see, none of the character abilities are of any use to them. The palatine used to help, but not any more.

Played a casual 1000pt game with against a very unoptimized infantry heavy guard list (only 1 manticore, some transports, a bane something hellhound)

My list was

Celestine
5 Zeph
5Seraphim hf
10BSS
Immolator
MM Rets
Pengine
Mortifier (3+)
Exorcist.
2x2 Crusaders

Basically tabled him, but had trouble scoring the first few turns.

Unit by unit: Celestine and 5 Zeph are surprisingly useful. I think it might be better than 10 because they'll still wreck favorable targets without being a 300pt investment. The shenanigans with the Geminae are also fun.

Seraphim are truly absurd. Easily my current favorite unit. Was killing 2 infantry squads every battle round and was insane for objective play. Glad I have 25 now.

Immolator was fine, rets were meh. Rets need a very specific target (like a Land Raider, or a pricey Leman Russ) to be worth it because they're only shooting once.

Both the Pengine and the Mortie were very useful.

Crusaders are great. Can't argue with them for 20pts.

Rolled an absurd number of 6s for miracle dice, so that was very lucky, and as a result was able to use almost all the ones I had.

Had exactly 2 units actually get to use the +1 to wound from HM. +1 to hit didn't really matter.

ERJAK wrote:
Celestine and 5 Zeph are surprisingly useful. I think it might be better than 10 because they'll still wreck favorable targets without being a 300pt investment. The shenanigans with the Geminae are also fun.

Do you mean at 1000 pts specifically, or are you also thinking to go this way for 2000 point games? I would be concerned with durability but I imagine anything that would blast through five bodyguards could probably do the same to ten anyway. My next chance to play won't be for a few more weeks, so I'm eager to learn from others with more opportunities to get games in.

Lemondish wrote:

ERJAK wrote:
Celestine and 5 Zeph are surprisingly useful. I think it might be better than 10 because they'll still wreck favorable targets without being a 300pt investment. The shenanigans with the Geminae are also fun.

Do you mean at 1000 pts specifically, or are you also thinking to go this way for 2000 point games? I would be concerned with durability but I imagine anything that would blast through five bodyguards could probably do the same to ten anyway. My next chance to play won't be for a few more weeks, so I'm eager to learn from others with more opportunities to get games in.

The unit is a scalpel. It's best for attacking flanks and taking objectives back that have already suffered some chip damage. It's okay into rhino/razorback type vehicles, but excels at stealing objectives from GEQ squads, MSU marine squads, or wounded Terminator units. Anything heartier than that and you should soften them up first or give the unit a wide berth. Also, you need to exploit cover and LoS blocking as much as possible to keep them alive for any significant amount of time.

Adding 5 more models doesn't really change any of that, it just makes it better at the first thing(killing) while be worse at the second thing(hiding). Therefore, I don't see myself using 10 until points come down.

I might take 2 more squads of 5 though. Fast movers are very strong with tactical objectives.

Played my first game of 10th last night vs Orks, 1500pts. It was a pretty casual game and this was only the 2nd game my opponent had ever played of 40k and he hadn't familiarized himself as well as I had with our armies, so there was some skew in my favour. I ended up winning, killing most of his units by Turn 5, but (predictably) my infantry suffered heavy losses through the game.

My list was:
Triumph of St Katherine
10 Battle Sisters (Flamer, Heavy Flamer, Power Sword + Condemnor)

Palatine (Litanies of Faith)
10 Celestian Sacresants

10 Dominions (Storm Bolters, Power Sword + Combi-weapon)
Immolator (Multi-meltas)

10 Battle Sisters (Meltagun, Multi-melta, Power Sword + Combi-weapon)
10 Repentia
5 Seraphim (2 Hand Flamers, Power Sword + Plasma Pistol)
Mortifier (HBs + Flails, Anchorite)
Mortifier (HBs + Flails, Anchorite)
Exorcist
Castigator (Battle Cannon)

I had a few things I wanted to test in this battle:
-Triumph: legit?
-How tough is Palatine with Sacresants?
-Exorcist vs Castigator?
-Are Repentia screwed this edition?

Triumph did really well, I was rocking the +1A rapid fire and 6+ FNP relics all game and I had like 4 units in range of my aura on the first turn so I was getting a lot of value out of it. Its 18A and 18W is also just ridiculous, it's basically tripling the wounds on a Battle Sister squad just by existing and its damage output is pretty decent at that. So glad this is finally a viable unit in the army (in a casual setting anyway, all my analysis here is from that perspective).

Palatine + Sacresants were extremely hard to crack. -1 to wound mattered a lot because every gun and melee weapon the Orks put at me would have been wounding on 2s and 3s, which lost them a lot of potential damage. In return, the Lethal Hits and the Palatine's mortal wound ability scored me way more Meganobz kills than I was expecting it to. Honestly, not a bad investment for 210 (with Litanies of Faith), I wanted them to take a lot of heat and they did so brilliantly.

Exorcist was definitely more impactful than the Castigator. The Castigator maybe got 1 wound off a Battle Wagon, but it honestly had more impact killing infantry even with the battle cannon. Meanwhile, 170pts for the Exorcist is still worth it, it blasted everything I wanted it to with little effort (helped that I was rolling like 5 or 6s for my number of shots) and they really couldn't do much about it being in cover.

For Repentia... the jury's out, I reserved them, then they came in and failed a charge, but didn't get to do anything because their target died next turn. Only lost 3 Repentia off the squad to Ork shooting and an exploding Battlewagon.

All-in-all, I was surprised at how well the Sisters did compared to my expectations, but hot damn are our infantry (barring Sacresants) extremely fragile. Oh, other thoughts - 5+ to wound tanks is definitely brutal, I was kinda lucky that the Orks had the same issue (for my vehicles I only lost 1 Mortifier in the whole battle and the Immolator had 1 wound left). This is part of the reason why the Exorcist is so good, 4+ to wound a lot of tanks makes it even more reliable.

How's this far a 1000pt list:

for your consideration (1000 points)
Adepta Sororitas
Incursion (1000 points)
Hallowed Martyrs


CHARACTER

Imagifier (40 points)
• 1x Bolt pistol
1x Boltgun
1x Close combat weapon

Saint Celestine (150 points)
• 1x Celestine
• Warlord
• 1x The Ardent Blade
• 2x Geminae Superia
• 2x Bolt pistol
2x Power weapon


BATTLELINE

Battle Sisters Squad (110 points)
• 1x Sister Superior
• 1x Bolt pistol
1x Close combat weapon
1x Combi-weapon
1x Power weapon
• 9x Battle Sister
• 9x Bolt pistol
7x Boltgun
9x Close combat weapon
1x Meltagun
1x Multi-melta
1x Simulacrum Imperialis


OTHER DATASHEETS

Crusaders (20 points)
• 2x Power weapon

Crusaders (20 points)
• 2x Power weapon

Crusaders (20 points)
• 2x Power weapon

Exorcist (170 points)
• 1x Armoured tracks
1x Exorcist missile launcher
1x Heavy bolter
1x Hunter-killer missile

Mortifiers (60 points)
• 1x Anchorite Sarcophagus
2x Mortifier flamer
1x Twin penitent buzz-blades

Penitent Engines (60 points)
• 1x Penitent flamers
1x Twin penitent buzz-blades

Seraphim Squad (70 points)
• 1x Seraphim Superior
• 1x Close combat weapon
1x Plasma pistol
1x Power weapon
• 4x Seraphim
• 4x Bolt pistol
4x Close combat weapon
4x Ministorum hand flamer

Seraphim Squad (70 points)
• 1x Seraphim Superior
• 1x Close combat weapon
1x Plasma pistol
1x Power weapon
• 4x Seraphim
• 4x Bolt pistol
4x Close combat weapon
4x Ministorum hand flamer

Seraphim Squad (70 points)
• 1x Seraphim Superior
• 1x Close combat weapon
1x Plasma pistol
1x Power weapon
• 4x Seraphim
• 4x Bolt pistol
4x Close combat weapon
4x Ministorum hand flamer

Zephyrim Squad (70 points)
• 1x Zephyrim Superior
• 1x Plasma pistol
1x Power weapon
1x Sacred Banner
• 4x Zephyrim
• 4x Bolt pistol
4x Power weapon

Zephyrim Squad (70 points)
• 1x Zephyrim Superior
• 1x Plasma pistol
1x Power weapon
1x Sacred Banner
• 4x Zephyrim
• 4x Bolt pistol
4x Power weapon


Lots of small units and mobile as hell.

Will clearly struggle against an armoured list, but I think we are pretty screwed in those scenarios anyway.

Guy went 4-1 to take 9th at a decent size GT.
List was:

Dialogus, Junith, Missionary, Triumph, BSS, BSS, Rhino, Rhino, Sacresants, Crusaders, Exorcist, Exorcist, 2 Morties, 2 Pengines. Repentia, Repentia, Rets, Rets.

It's a weird list, especially with the missionary apparently attaching to either the BSS or the Crusaders? (It's possible the attachment was something illegal, but we'll assume it wasn't for the analysis). Also, some of the games seem incredibly low scoring for victories.

If I had to guess, I'd say the Rets are outflanking or hiding with the Triumph, waiting for opportunistic shots. I think you put the Repentia in the Rhinos. No Seraphim seems silly to me. Still hate sacresants, but hey, worked this time.

There's a lot of good objective control here and the two units of BSS with the Triumph are surprisingly effective at taking out GEQ models.

To go 4-1 at a large tournament is no easy feat, regardless of army, and is certainly a testament to the players skill. However, the matchups you find yourself in are also very important.

Round 1 was against a sort of 'this is what I have' Thunderwolf list with a ton of terminator characters. 44pts in a win, opponent ended up second to last.

Round 2 was against Custodes with 2 big blobs. 54pt win, opponent ended up 2-2-1. Custodes are a strong army, but this list relied too much on Fights First guarding objectives, which sisters can sort of bypass using suffering and sacrifice. I imagine the repentia went pretty hard this game, actually.

Round 3 was against an extremely infantry heavy GSC list. Another really good army, but another strong matchup for sisters, compared to something like Eldar. I imagine that Repentia and BSS with extra shots from the triumph did a lot of work here. 75pt win, opponent actually finished 4th. Probably the most impressive win of the day.

Round 4 was against a Guard vehicle skew. Baneblade+Dorn tanks+Basilisks. I imagine he popped one or two tanks pretty quickly and then just outscored the rest. The tanks didn't have great profiles for killing SoB statlines, which doesn't help. 49pt win, opponent took 22nd.

Round 5. Tsons. 53 to 76. Bad matchup for any sisters lists, but especially this one. Winner took 3rd.

based off the scores, the player focused more on denying his opponent points than scoring his own. Add some favorable matchups and you have a pretty solid run of a list punching above its weight.

I have a friend who's really struggling with his SoB against our local meta (Orks, Necrons and Eldar atm), since a lot of killing power of meltas has dropped and they're really floundering on what units can act as proper hammers/anvils now that things are either much more expensive for the cost or feel much more pillow fisted compared to 9th. This thread has already been pretty helpful in compiling some combos but I did want a general consensus of what some of the major toolkits/strats you guys have been using that might be useful for him.

So far I've been able to get some of the following as the top competing units:

Celestine
1-2 Exorcists in backfield shooting at vulnerable units.
Seraphim (usually 2 units, some can be max 10, or MSU 5)
Retributors, usually with Dialogus
Repentia, usually in a Rhino combo'ed with Holy Rage
Triumph to help generate 6's for MD and opportunities to blow your load on a unit for MD multiple times and provide additional auras for different situations.

I've seen somewhat mixed approaches in people using MSU mortifiers/penitent engines, and some who have arco flagellants with a preacher. Is there anything I missed or further suggestions from you guys? A sample 1500 points list would be great for what might be good for a beginner.

 Vilgeir wrote:
With the way so many different weapon options got rolled into a single profile for many armies, I had hoped that Exorcists would simply allow you to choose which missile to use when firing rather than at army construction.

I suppose there's still a slim chance that this occurs come Codex time, but that will be a while yet.

Unlikely as they have different builds using the kit. You can model either the small missiles or the big missiles.


As for the codex as a whole here is my thoughts.

The basic means of getting miracle dice, i.e. where your own units have to die is terrible from a game design standpoint. A primary mechanic for a faction where you have to be lsing to get the most out of it is just feels bad. It actively punishes you if you are doing well. The mechanic also scales really badly with larger games.

The other faction mechanic where you get bonuses for squads being damaged is also kinda bad as Sisters units tend to be really fragile making it unreliable at best.

The strange limitations as to which squads characters can attach to are both annoying as well a ripe for accidental illegal plays as theres seems to be no pattern, it just seems arbitary.

Most units special rules seem kinda bad and dont synergise well with what seems to be their intended role. Examples being Retributers seem to be designed to jump out an immolater and erase something yet the immolaters special rule of granting rerolls makes the retributers redundant. Also Mortifiers gain sustained hits when they charge but penitant engines just get it by default with the exact same weapon? Its like they couldnt think of a rule to to give Mortifiers.

Alot of units are either overcosted, punished by squad size restriction or by only working if they have a specific character with them (Sacrosants not getting a 2+ unless they have a character with them) which can translate to being a tax to use the unit in what seems to be its intended role? (Again sacroscants seem to be intended as a bodyguard for a cannoness but need a different character attached to get a 2+ and cannoness are not even really worth guarding.

I will not go into the the multimelta problem as that will just result in a rant, but a lack or reliable high strength ranged options and our melee units being mediocre at best is a major weakness.

Overall the current 10th edition codex is flawed at best and often just feels bad to play. While it may be possible to find some gimmicky list that kinda works to exploit some of the mechanics (spamming 2 man crusader squads to farm miracle dice for example) The index itself makes it feel bad to try and play Sisters as faction using their iconic models and units. Note most proposed "good" lists have very few actual battle sisters in them.

"Unlikely as they have different builds using the kit. You can model either the small missiles or the big missiles."

Sure, but that was true about the power weapons, combi-weapons, and all the Primaris flavours too, which now no longer matter.

Also true of the Whirlwind, which used to have different missiles represented with different sized missiles on the model.
Now it just has a single profile.

Shoot. I've been holding off on fielding my sisters because of the melta nerf. I just realized that basic sister squads became min squad size 10 at some point. And I just finished building the trio of immolators that I wanted at the core of my army.

Am I just screwed until I invest in some elites that can fit inside the immolators?

Note that Immolators have a rule that lets you combat squad units that are too large to fit in them.

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Note that Immolators have a rule that lets you combat squad units that are too large to fit in them.

Oh thank the Emperor!

Just note you still need 10 models for your Battle Sister and Dominion squads. The Immolator allows you to split those squads in half, with half starting in an Immolator and the second half wherever you want them, even in a different Immolator.

On the Tactics side, I got in my first game of 10th with my Sister of Battle. It was a slaughterfest against unoptimized Space Marines. I squeezed out a victory in the Core Rules scenerio against the Marines mostly because I had two objectives in my deployment zone to his one. This allowed me to keep the third objective contested all game long even after he tagged and ran the one in his zone. Things are learned are:

Sister have no good anti-tank options. Meltaguns and Multi-melta burn through Space Marines, even Terminators, but just don't cut it against a real tank (like a Sicaran Battle Tank). The Exorcist is also much more useful helping them stop scoop up their marines than trying to hurt a tank. Our melee options are fragile, making them bullet magnets. Seraphim with Saint Celestine are a good combination. They bring weight of fire while she brings the melee.

And most importantly, use those Faith Dice. They come fast and furious, so don't be afraid to use them.

 alextroy wrote:
Just note you still need 10 models for your Battle Sister and Dominion squads. The Immolator allows you to split those squads in half, with half starting in an Immolator and the second half wherever you want them, even in a different Immolator.

On the Tactics side, I got in my first game of 10th with my Sister of Battle. It was a slaughterfest against unoptimized Space Marines. I squeezed out a victory in the Core Rules scenerio against the Marines mostly because I had two objectives in my deployment zone to his one. This allowed me to keep the third objective contested all game long even after he tagged and ran the one in his zone. Things are learned are:

Sister have no good anti-tank options. Meltaguns and Multi-melta burn through Space Marines, even Terminators, but just don't cut it against a real tank (like a Sicaran Battle Tank). The Exorcist is also much more useful helping them stop scoop up their marines than trying to hurt a tank. Our melee options are fragile, making them bullet magnets. Seraphim with Saint Celestine are a good combination. They bring weight of fire while she brings the melee.

And most importantly, use those Faith Dice. They come fast and furious, so don't be afraid to use them.

Thanks for the report! With that in mind, do you think it's viable to basically give up on hurting enemy vehicles and instead focus on clearing their infantry and winning by standing on objectives slightly more often than they do?

Personally I was thinking that hurting vehicles with meltas is a good use of Miracle Dice. Guarantee a successful wound roll. It's not a perfect plan, especially if the enemy vehicle in question has a good invulnerable save and might just shrug it anyway, but it beats only wounding a third of the time with our hardest-hitting weapons.

The need for anti-tank is part of why I think a unit of Paragons with Morvenn Vahl is almost an auto-include. 6 Multi-melta shots that reroll all hit and wounds is decently reliable (plus you get 2 krak missiles and the shoulder grenade launchers), and you can clean up in melee against anything short of a big Knight. That package is expensive, but I would run it if I were to run Sisters in 10th.

The only flaw I see there is that T6, Sv 2+/4+ will be a magnet for all the light AT in your opponent’s army. Might even get heavy AT fired at it. At 4 wounds each over 3 models, I fear for how long the Paragons can survive.