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I have trouble understanding exactly who this is aimed at.
It doesn't make any of the old HS players want it due to unpainted minis, and simple repeats of the same terrain. So, it offers nothing new to old players and with unpainted minis, it will look odd next to their old stuff.

The price is far too much for new players, and it doesn't really sell what's great about the game. It's simply, 'Look at all these minis and terrain!' with little to rope in the players who have not heard of Heroscape before.

Haslab appears to be attempting to cash in on nostalgia, yet there's little here to incentivize that nostalgia with both the lack of a cheaper buy in for new players, and unpainted gobs of minis for the old players.

I think this is more a marketing issue, and a cash grab based on nostalgia, yet there's nothing here that will grab older or newer players at all. I'm sure that had the initial buy in been around $100-150, they would have made their target already.
As it stands right now, this doesn't seem to hit the target for either demographic, and which is why it's likely failing.

The other campaigns running at the same time as this one are also stagnating, and the modern Ghost Rider action figure one failed to fund. The Transformers campaign which has 'only' a buy in of $180 seems to be faltering as well.
I'm thinking that during an inflationary, out of control economy with supply chain disruptions might be a bad time to try and cash in with projects based entirely on nostalgia and collection mentalities.

Seems the past few Haslab projects are floundering. It also likely due to the lack of engagement and excitement since their site itself doesn't allow for discourse or commenting.

On normal kickstarter I think I might have gone for it

 Ghool wrote:

Seems the past few Haslab projects are floundering. It also likely due to the lack of engagement and excitement since their site itself doesn't allow for discourse or commenting.

Admittedly, I don't follow them (or pledge... pay... whatever the term is!) directly myself but rather follow them peripherally via sources like this thread and various toy-afficionado youtube channels and the recent track record seems pretty dire. I fully admit that I may be missing some campaigns but of the last half dozen I recall hearing about, only one has or looks likely to fund (the Cobra HISS tank). The rancor, Reva lightsaber, ghostrider muscle car, and now this Heroscape project have either already failed or look like they will. Compared with early (unbroken string of?) successes like Jabba's sail barge, Unicron, Xmen Sentinel, Galactus, Razor Crest, and Heroquest, they seemed to have completely upended their track record as of late (and I'm pretty sure I missed some other successful campaigns in my list but those are the ones I recall from memory).

I haven't followed Haslab other than HeroQuest and HeroScape, but, since the shipping crisis months ago, crowdfunding has certainly dropped, especially with high inflation and the recession. Also, Amazon and other retailers are pushing the retail sales into October, adding more competition to what little budget consumers have for luxuries.

 privateer4hire wrote:
Twenty days left and they haven’t reached 3k of the required 8k backers. Do crowdfunding campaigns usually rally big at the end?

My observation is that they can but, as said earlier, only if they already reached their funding goal. There's a reason most KS use earlybird backing options and pre-kickstarter marketing to help ensure that they hit their funding goal within the first few hours to first day of going live. If you fail to fund within that period there is a very good chance that the campaign will limp along through the month gaining very little traction and then on the last day it will more likely die or just limp to the funding goal. Thing is even if you don't get charged till the last day, people will pull out early and many KS rely on the idea that they will hit stretch goals and free unlocks and such to give best value for money. If they fail that then they are often less attractive so people pull out rather than back it just to get the "bare bones".


KS also tend to have very little gain during the funding period. The first few and last few days are the big game changers. That's why many KS went from 30 day to 15 day campaigns. The longer period in the middle would often not gain much and could sometimes run the risk of going backwards at times (and if a campaign starts going backwards it can turn into a runaway).



I also agree, whilst KS takes fees, it gets a much bigger audience. Even in niche markets like 3D printing, a KS will often do better than My Mini Factory's Frontiers - even though a large majority of 3d print customers likely already have a MMF account.

And it failed to fund.
Wondering if there’s a plan b or if setting the bar so high was just a “well, we pitched it but fans just weren’t interested enough to fund it.”

“As we said during the campaign if this project doesn’t meet its goal, we won’t be able to produce Age of Annihilation. That has not changed. HeroScape as a project will be shelved, and there are no current plans to attempt a resurrection at this time. The Avalon Hill team will refocus our efforts on the exciting games we currently have coming soon, such as the next HeroQuest Game System expansion, Mage of the Mirror, or the upcoming Yawning Portal D&D strategy board game.”

Thanks for that.

Darn fans failed each other and Hasbro.

I bet some random Chinese company wouldn’t need such a high bar to make some plastic tiles, minis and a bit of cardboard…

I can see it now:

Hero Escape!
Only one faction can defeat all the others to earn the Overlords’ Dimensions Key that will return them to their own place and time. Lead your heroes to defeat the opposing factions and to earn their escape!

MSRP $100
Includes over 70 miniatures, an expansive terrain set, dice, tokens and rules book.

Chairman Aeon wrote:I bet some random Chinese company wouldn’t need such a high bar to make some plastic tiles, minis and a bit of cardboard…

privateer4hire wrote:I can see it now:

Hero Escape!
Only one faction can defeat all the others to earn the Overlords’ Dimensions Key that will return them to their own place and time. Lead your heroes to defeat the opposing factions and to earn their escape!

MSRP $100
Includes over 70 miniatures, an expansive terrain set, dice, tokens and rules book.

It's not an official authentic knockoff if it doesn't have at least one grammatical and/or spelling mistake.

 warboss wrote:

Chairman Aeon wrote:I bet some random Chinese company wouldn’t need such a high bar to make some plastic tiles, minis and a bit of cardboard…

privateer4hire wrote:I can see it now:

Hero Escape!
Only one faction can defeat all the others to earn the Overlords’ Dimensions Key that will return them to their own place and time. Lead your heroes to defeat the opposing factions and to earn their escape!

MSRP $100
Includes over 70 miniatures, an expansive terrain set, dice, tokens and rules book.

It's not an official authentic knockoff if it doesn't have at least one grammatical and/or spelling mistake.

TBF it's also not a legitimate Haslab project if it doesn't have one massive cockup that Hasbro fail to mention until they have had everyone's money for a year and started shipping the product out so no refunds.

 privateer4hire wrote:

Darn fans failed each other and Hasbro.

One can blame the fans if they wish, but when you reboot without the prime feature of the original game (painted figures), none of the original factions, and a prohibitive price point, that seems like Hasbro's failure.

Seems like a stretch to blame the fans for not being willing to drop $250 on a product that wasn't what they wanted.

 Eilif wrote:

 privateer4hire wrote:

Darn fans failed each other and Hasbro.

One can blame the fans if they wish, but when you reboot without the prime feature of the original game (painted figures), none of the original factions, and a prohibitive price point, that seems like Hasbro's failure.

Seems like a stretch to blame the fans for not being willing to drop $250 on a product that wasn't what they wanted.

I think he was being sarcastic and probably speaking in corporate apologist voice.

Yes, Hasbro cannot fail, it can only be failed. By you, the impudent, price sensitive consumer.

 warboss wrote:

 Eilif wrote:

 privateer4hire wrote:

Darn fans failed each other and Hasbro.

One can blame the fans if they wish, but when you reboot without the prime feature of the original game (painted figures), none of the original factions, and a prohibitive price point, that seems like Hasbro's failure.

Seems like a stretch to blame the fans for not being willing to drop $250 on a product that wasn't what they wanted.

I think he was being sarcastic and probably speaking in corporate apologist voice.

Yeah. I was writing what I figured their response would be. Hey, Guys, we really tried but response by customers just didn’t show this to be a viable product line.

We’re off to make real money selling Star Wars stuff. Laters

HeroScape returning?

Renegade:
https://renegadegamestudios.com/heroscape-news

 ced1106 wrote:
HeroScape returning?

Renegade:
https://renegadegamestudios.com/heroscape-news

Full Press Release from back in June: https://renegadegamestudios.com/blog/renegade-game-studios-welcomes-heroscape-expanding-licensing-partnership-with-hasbro/

Renegade are taking pre-orders for an "August 2024" release.

https://renegadegamestudios.com/category/pre-orders/?_bc_fsnf=1&brand=71

left from Heroscapers.com :

Pre-Order from https://renegadegamestudios.com/heroscape/ and use promo code WELCOME10 (1st order) or WELCOMEBACK10 (if you ordered from Renegade before) for 10% off ($34 off if you get 1 of each including painted)

Anyone else disappointed with the designs renegade revealed? Why is the soulborg 4 armed robot wearing a cape? Why is the marro wearing shorts with a buckled belt full of pouches? Why did knight Oberon get renamed to knight Irene?

This first wave is a flop for me.

I really enjoyed this game so if there is a uk seller be interested

I can see getting the battle box, I have enough terrain from the Hasbro days and would like to encourage more development. It’s a nice starter set for a price point, but the mini selection is a bit weird for all the sets.

Wow, Renegade is going to do the core for $120 AND the minis will be painted? Makes you realize how much of a gouge the Haslab kickstart was.

Sadly, I already have a ton of Heroscape from the first time around that I never actually got to play, so I think I'm better off passing on this and keep on picking up the Heroquest stuff that is coming out.


<edit> Oh, wait - the $120 version minis are not painted? You have to pay $225 for the prepaints? Jeez, no thanks!

This was the first minis game I got deeply invested in and absolutely adored it. A lot has changed in the genre in the last decade though so I'm not sure I really need anything more of it to revisit the nostalgia. I'll personally be more curious to hear if they've added anything to improve the ability to improve the ability to play with elevation and the ability for melee to get in attacks or heroes to survive.

 Stormonu wrote:
<edit> Oh, wait - the $120 version minis are not painted? You have to pay $225 for the prepaints? Jeez, no thanks!

Exactly.

Some speculation here, but...

Unfortunately, HS was a product of its time, and that meant that petroleum prices and prepainted costs were affordable to the hobby gamer.

Part of the HS failure was the lack of prepaints, and nowadays, for quite a while, the only way you could get prepaints is through random packs (where the quality of the prepaints for the commons was cheaper than the rares, so you were paying for the rare prepaints by buying the commons) or prepainted figure lines, which, outside of WizKids, are only by small companies, such as Renegade.

Is Krosmaster still around? ( I think that was one of the last gasps of prepaints sold in fixed sets b/c the sculpts were designed around stencil-painting, which I presume is cheaper than hand painting?

EDIT: HeroScapers.com's thread of designer news and comments about the new release : https://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=62464

 ced1106 wrote:

Unfortunately, HS was a product of its time, and that meant that petroleum prices and prepainted costs were affordable to the hobby gamer.

Effectively this. I've spoken with the developers over the years and really, the game died because it could no longer be produced profitably. I've heard estimates that costs jumped 6-7x what they were. Those last couple of years of DnD releases were mostly trying to get by reusing existing assets to keep the game alive until things became affordable again, but ultimately they never did.

As a game, I think some of its mechanics were far enough ahead of their time that there's value in seeing it return, but a lot of it also would hugely benefit from a revamp to expand what it could be. The rules are about perfect for creating a wildly accessible game to support an accessible model line but I don't feel like either the models or rules hold up when the barrier to entry puts it in competition with a lot of modern hobby games.

In that case, how is Wizkids able to still run profitably prepainted lines in various genres as a licensee with additional costs on top of that?

 warboss wrote:
In that case, how is Wizkids able to still run profitably prepainted lines in various genres as a licensee with additional costs on top of that?

Funny enough, the Clix brand actually died around the same time. It probably would have vanished along with all the rest if not for the sudden surge in popularity for comic book characters at the time.

Clix is part of the blind purchase market and operates a little differently. Regardless of the game behind it, the product that is sold is designed around selling it as a singular entity. There is essentially one SKU per production run that before it even starts, its effectively already sold out to the distribution network. New sets essentially replace old in the product catalog so from a retail perspective, they stock "Clix" in boxes that get restocked with whatever is the current set. It means that they are able to hit places like Target and Wal-Mart and the like to reach numbers that make pre-paints viable. Blind purchase also means that as long as the set as a whole doesn't fail, even if sales go up and down they can adjust for future runs. Cheap commons are still an enormous development cost that in other systems could easily tank the line, but because they're not the real product, but part of a set that is sold as the whole thing, they can fill boosters while consumers chase what they want from the set.

Without blind purchase, you still have to sell in sets if you want big box stores to carry it. Heroscape walked a very dangerous line in that regard, as it mixed unique hero packs with repeat purchase commons and relied on everyone wanting the heroes to keep them from clogging shelves. It often worked, but when it didn't, it was a huge threat to the line. FWIW, this is the same reason that stuff like the Marvel Legends figure have the "build a figure" parts. It keeps unpopular figures from the set from clogging shelves and tanking the line as a whole.