Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

There’s a whole website to support my position!

https://investor.games-workshop.com/

TL/DR? Nothing to see here. Just an edge lord with a ropey source.

Are....are you saying a website never lied before or something? I don't understand your bizarre stance and attacking the OP.

It’s their Investor Relations website.

GW’s being a publicly traded company, had to post its figures. GW’s figures have to be independently verified. And so…………

The dude was from GW, and you're attacking the dude. What is this guy, Peach, gaining from providing the info?

 Kalamadea wrote:

Y'all should actually WATCH the video, it's a 2 hour interview and the "4-6 weeks from failure" is really short part of it,

We're talking about that part specifically because this thread and the article in the OP is literally about that part specifically, not the whole video.

Tyel wrote:
The obvious question to ask would be "how did they end up not running out of cashflow then?"

To which the answer probably was "well it wasn't as bad as all that".

Pretty clear 2014-16 was not a healthy time for GW - but equally, from the accounts, they were stagnating, not drowning. A short term cash crisis is however entirely possible if there were some lean months without much going on. I think they turned the corner with the Deathwatch Overkill box (Feb 2016?).

Yeah, but you'll never get people watching your YouTube channel talking like that.

And I agree with others that a senior product designer would almost certainly NOT know or understand all the complexities of a multinational company's finances. It's highly possible that the company had some cash flow issues and he was told that, but the way it was described here just doesn't seem very plausible.

EviscerationPlague wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

There’s a whole website to support my position!

https://investor.games-workshop.com/

TL/DR? Nothing to see here. Just an edge lord with a ropey source.

Are....are you saying a website never lied before or something? I don't understand your bizarre stance and attacking the OP.

It’s their Investor Relations website.

GW’s being a publicly traded company, had to post its figures. GW’s figures have to be independently verified. And so…………

The dude was from GW, and you're attacking the dude. What is this guy, Peach, gaining from providing the info?

Clicks, views and money. Duh

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

There’s a whole website to support my position!

https://investor.games-workshop.com/

TL/DR? Nothing to see here. Just an edge lord with a ropey source.

Are....are you saying a website never lied before or something? I don't understand your bizarre stance and attacking the OP.

It’s their Investor Relations website.

GW’s being a publicly traded company, had to post its figures. GW’s figures have to be independently verified. And so…………

The dude was from GW, and you're attacking the dude. What is this guy, Peach, gaining from providing the info?

Clicks, views and money. Duh

Tom is the source, not Peachy.

He has nothing to gain from releasing the information.

Edit: I'm guessing that not many in this thread have actually watched the video?

Peach is the release, he gets the money and incentive to release the info.

The actual quote is "I think at one point they were about four, or four to six weeks out of running out of cash flow", and then Peachy says "I do remember there was a manager meeting where they discussed it and saying that we are 15 million in debt".

So, cash flow, which is an issue rich people run into frequently and it's a problem of liquidity, not of actual money, and (for that size of company) small debt (probably, as MDG said, to pay dividends). It doesn't seem too implausible to me, and I don't feel like it runs counter with the public figures.

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
Peach is the release, he gets the money and incentive to release the info.

Let me say it again, Peach is not the source.

He didn't tell Tom what to say beforehand.

It was Tom's information, and he does not profit from it.

Peachy does, sure, but it's not his information, it was provided by Tom, gratis

As has been stated elsewhere, GW couldn't have lied without breaking the law.

They don't have to have lied for it still to be true.

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

There’s a whole website to support my position!

https://investor.games-workshop.com/

TL/DR? Nothing to see here. Just an edge lord with a ropey source.

Are....are you saying a website never lied before or something? I don't understand your bizarre stance and attacking the OP.

It’s their Investor Relations website.

GW’s being a publicly traded company, had to post its figures. GW’s figures have to be independently verified. And so…………

The dude was from GW, and you're attacking the dude. What is this guy, Peach, gaining from providing the info?

Clicks, views and money. Duh

Since you're obviously smart about Financials, how much money you think they made with that "clickbait" with the clicks and views?

 RaptorusRex wrote:
As has been stated elsewhere, GW couldn't have lied without breaking the law.

I don't think they did, but I don't think that what they actually say on the video is inconsistent with that.

I have cleaned out a bunch of inappropriate posts. Please stick to discussing the topic rather than attacking other posters.

 RaptorusRex wrote:
As has been stated elsewhere, GW couldn't have lied without breaking the law.

And this would be the first time corporate broke the law?

 Azreal13 wrote:
They don't have to have lied for it still to be true.

It can be true and not be a big deal, too - if it was just before taking that loan to pay dividends, it would still have been a major event for the corporation (because they would have to give up their usual policy of not taking outside loans for once) that led to internal changes and re-organisations without really threatening it directly (because their stance on loans is much more conservative than almost any business, a flat-out luxury problem/belief).

 Azreal13 wrote:
They don't have to have lied for it still to be true.

The post was pruned, but for what it's worth I respect your view more than many on this site.

I don't really understand why it stirred up such a hornets nest, but there you go.

EviscerationPlague wrote:

 RaptorusRex wrote:
As has been stated elsewhere, GW couldn't have lied without breaking the law.

And this would be the first time corporate broke the law?

They don't have to, which I think those that are clutching their pearls over this don't quite get.

They can start the year with £15m cash in the bank, within 6 months they can have spent the £15m, gone £15m into their overdraft and be really feeling the pinch.

If on the last day of their financial year they're £15m in the black again, you just don't see the massive crisis that happend in the middle because that's outside of the scope of the report.

You'd need bank statements to see that, and that's something we're not privy to as customers or investors.

EviscerationPlague wrote:

Since you're obviously smart about Financials, how much money you think they made with that "clickbait" with the clicks and views?

Couldn't tell you, but I will say this video is the first time this channel has ever appeared in my feed, so I'd guess it was worth more than average for them.

EviscerationPlague wrote:

 RaptorusRex wrote:
As has been stated elsewhere, GW couldn't have lied without breaking the law.

And this would be the first time corporate broke the law?

The external auditor would have had to assist with the lie too. Both them and GW would also have to be lying over something that was literally no benefit to anyone except in a dumb Internet argument a decade later.

Which makes it significantly more likely that Tom's quote is some kind of exaggeration or misunderstanding.

 Undead_Love-Machine wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
They don't have to have lied for it still to be true.

I don't really understand why it stirred up such a hornets nest, but there you go.

The thread title gives it away - it's like nerd-nip, the absolute dream scenario: outside evidence provided by an impartial authority directly tells you that you were right all along on a topic that had been argued with vitriol all those years ago. Few can withstand such a temptation

 Undead_Love-Machine wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
They don't have to have lied for it still to be true.

The post was pruned, but for what it's worth I respect your view more than many on this site.

I don't really understand why it stirred up such a hornets nest, but there you go.

I kinda do, but to go into that would be not only off topic but probably (and likely legitimately) deemed inciteful, so I'll say nothing more.

EviscerationPlague wrote:

 RaptorusRex wrote:
As has been stated elsewhere, GW couldn't have lied without breaking the law.

And this would be the first time corporate broke the law?

What are you referring to? What have they done before?

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:

 RaptorusRex wrote:
As has been stated elsewhere, GW couldn't have lied without breaking the law.

And this would be the first time corporate broke the law?

What are you referring to? What have they done before?

You mean you've already forgotten that time James Workshop personally burned down the orphange!?

Hardly surprising and entirely believable. I remember plenty of posts from the time period saying they can't cut costs further as they'll be cutting through meat and bone. There was a fella on Warseer, whose name escapes me, that went quite deep into the financials at the time and he was persistant in warning that they look broadly healthy "now" but can't keep going down the path they are forever.

And doubtless, you will find plenty of stories of profitable business which suddenly run out of cash because of bad decisions, poor sales, or some other unforseen problem.

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:

 RaptorusRex wrote:
As has been stated elsewhere, GW couldn't have lied without breaking the law.

And this would be the first time corporate broke the law?

What are you referring to? What have they done before?

I think it was meant to be a more general statement about the things corporations do.

That being said, people, please use common sense and weigh your probabilities a bit - a simple misunderstanding, mishearing a sentence or embellishing the details a bit after all those years is much more likely than literal fraud to cover up what amounts to a cashflow hickup... it's not a movie script where every single corporate employee is a step away from slaughtering orphans, these people have jobs and don't want to got to jail for the benefit of the firm at large, it's just not worth it to a bookkeeper who has nothing in particular to gain from misreporting things

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:

 RaptorusRex wrote:
As has been stated elsewhere, GW couldn't have lied without breaking the law.

And this would be the first time corporate broke the law?

What are you referring to? What have they done before?

Corporate in my post refers to "any corporates" rather than just GW. You'd be naive to believe anyone running a company that large was a stand up person with their morality intact though.

Clickbait thread.

 LunarSol wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:

Since you're obviously smart about Financials, how much money you think they made with that "clickbait" with the clicks and views?

Couldn't tell you, but I will say this video is the first time this channel has ever appeared in my feed, so I'd guess it was worth more than average for them.

So you agree, you don't really know if that click bait worked just because YOU saw this podcast for the first time.

Tsagualsa wrote:

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:

 RaptorusRex wrote:
As has been stated elsewhere, GW couldn't have lied without breaking the law.

And this would be the first time corporate broke the law?

What are you referring to? What have they done before?

I think it was meant to be a more general statement about the things corporations do.

That being said, people, please use common sense and weigh your probabilities a bit - a simple misunderstanding, mishearing a sentence or embellishing the details a bit after all those years is much more likely than literal fraud to cover up what amounts to a cashflow hickup... it's not a movie script where every single corporate employee is a step away from slaughtering orphans, these people have jobs and don't want to got to jail for the benefit of the firm at large, it's just not worth it to a bookkeeper who has nothing in particular to gain from misreporting things

That's not what we do here dammit! Drama or nothing!

could quite easily be "4-6 weeks from locking the doors", not because of cashflow or similar

but because those who own the business will close it down while there is still money in the bank to walk away with if they think a few months later it will close anyway and there won't be

not saying its the case here but I have seen that happen