Primaris Tactica - Tactics using just Primaris and related models

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**momerathe**

This is an opportune discussion because I'm currently on the horns of a dilemma as to which Chapter to go for. I'm planning an army with a solid core of intercessors with character support for board control, and then a mix of bolter and plasma inceptors dropping with a JP captain for punch.

I have narrowed it down to:

* Blood angels: Better toys; Intercessors can mix it in CC; I'd actually forgotten about the redeploy stratagem until Malkyr mentioned it, though their CTs don't really benefit Inceptors otherwise. Downside - Sanguinomancy (or whatever TH it's called) doesn't get Null Zone, even if it is better otherwise.

* Iron hands (Red Talons): FNP is always good; somewhat mitigates the overcharged plasma vulnerability that intercessors suffer from.

* Imperial fists: Yellow looks great on the tabletop. As Mandragola says, ignoring cover is almost always useful, if not amazing. Bolter drill is pretty weaksauce, though.

(Dark Angels could be another legit choice but I don't like them for lore reasons)

**Mandragola**

Ericthegreen wrote:
Point for point, bolter aggressors and bolter inceptors are pretty similar. aggressors get more shots, inceptors at higher strength. what aggressors don't get, is plasma.

The aggressor rules seem counter intuitive, but the option of a 8.5 inch move on average or double shots gives them a lot of flexibility. Inceptors obviously have the freedom of deployment without spending a CP on SftS, but even without ravenguard, aggressors have a fairly decent threat range with the advance and shoot move.

What i've been finding when using pure primaris is that repulsors and redemptors die quickly because they are the only tanks available, so i've ditched them altogether. This means i'm having to rely on plasma for anti tank. fortunately, primaris can pack a LOT of plasma. SftS is key for what i'm running, despite how useful the ultras strat would be:

Brigade Detachment
HQ
primaris captain - bolt rifle, power sword
primaris lieutenant
primaris lieutenant

TROOPS
Intercessors - 5, grenade launcher
Intercessors - 5, grenade launcher
Intercessors - 5, grenade launcher
Scouts - 5, bolters
Scouts - 5, bolters
Scouts - 5, bolters

ELITES
Aggressors - 3, boltstorm
Aggressors - 3, boltstorm
Primaris Ancient OR Primaris Apothecary

FAST ATTACK
Inceptors - 3, plasma
Inceptors - 3, plasma
Inceptors - 3, plasma

HEAVY SUPPORT
Hellblasters - 5
Hellblasters - 5
Hellblasters - 5

so that's 12 CP. 6 of which gets spent on the hellblasters, captain and aggressors being deployed into midfield into the safe areas created by scouts.

Turn 1, clear chaff with aggressors, scouts and intercessors. Start hitting hard targets with hellblasters. Use the inceptors as drop and delete units. if i can leash them to the captain I will, but if they can get a bead on something worth more than their points, i'll happily sacrifice them to get the job done.

Really interesting to see a brigade working for Primaris. That's definitely a good way to use them I think. Clearly, you've got to make some sacrifices to get there, so you don't have a lot of points to spare on luxuries, but overall it looks a good list.

I'd consider trying to get a librarian in there if possible, say by switching one of the plasma inceptor squads for bolters. But I'm not sure that would be an improvement overall. I'm actually thinking of dropping my own librarian for a lieutenant, as rerolling 1s to wound is such a big bonus - especially since my two repulsors and a couple of hellblaster squads are likely to be affected.

**Mymearan**

Well it's not really a "brigade working for Primaris" since it has Scouts to fill out those Troops slots. Still that's a lot of bodies with most of them being Primaris which I like.

**Ericthegreen**

Mandragola wrote:

I'd consider trying to get a librarian in there if possible, say by switching one of the plasma inceptor squads for bolters. But I'm not sure that would be an improvement overall. I'm actually thinking of dropping my own librarian for a lieutenant, as rerolling 1s to wound is such a big bonus - especially since my two repulsors and a couple of hellblaster squads are likely to be affected.

I would love to have a librarian in there. The initial variations of the list had bolter inceptors, gravis captain, librarian and 3 more aggressors. However, without th plasma, it just lacks the punch. I've chosen to sacrifice some of the quantity to up the quality, but it still have a fair chunk of bolter fire in there. the inceptors can always chose not to overcharge.

Mymearan wrote:Well it's not really a "brigade working for Primaris" since it has Scouts to fill out those Troops slots. Still that's a lot of bodies with most of them being Primaris which I like.

The risk of crippling alpha strike is so prevalent in 8th edition, I don't see how you can't have scouts in a marine army. if i'm going to make any sacrifice on "pure" primaris, i'd rather it be scouts than anything else.

The biggest boon to the brigade is being able to have so much SftS giving me strong board control options and early rapid fire from the hellblasters, without crippling my ability to react in game due to no CP.

**Mandragola**

Yeah my answer to that issue has been to make some "Primaris" scouts. I used reiver bodies, scraping away the armour from their legs above the boot and their arms, and then using GS to make unarmoured arms and legs. They have shotguns made from intercessor bolt guns merged with scout shotguns. I made them backpacks from GS and spare gubbins from the scout biker sprue - which I had loads of after some conversions I did years ago.

I don't have any good pics unfortunately, but they've come out quite well. I actually need to finish painting them. I got them to 3 colours for an event and they haven't been back to the painting table since.

**Xenomancers**

Mandragola wrote:
Redemptors seem not quite right to me. The plasma gun seems a non-starter unless you like blowing up. The gat is good. But it wants to move so will very often have -1 to hit, even before it takes damage and degrades.

I think there’s a case for using one if you’ve got a couple of repulsors too. Those can carry your lascannons and it can do anti-horde, and also a bit of protection against melee.

I’d go for the proper kit. It’s got the right guns and is really fun to build - if you have the patience! The thing is incredibly poseable.

The redemptor should be a candidate for a 4++ save standard at no additional point cost. Plus maybe some special rule to keep it shooting on the move or a bonus to shooting if it stays still. At it's current point cost it is a huge joke on space marine players.

**Martel732**

I like the redemptor a lot, actually.

**Primark G**

Yeah it’s just fine as is.

**Tibs Ironblood**

I think the Redemptor is pretty bad compared to a Chaplain dreadnought. In a Primaris list its too expensive to where you can't spam it so the 1 or 2 you bring will take a lot of firepower and go down. It has the same problem the Repulsor has. They just cost too many points to synergize with the units they bring. The Redemptor to me is a really cool unit, but if I want a battle bot i'll just take a Chaplain Dreadnought.

**Lemondish**

My wishlist, aside from more Primaris, is for CTs to affect vehicles.

I know it'll just end up resulting in them being spammed even more than now, but imagine how absolutely fluffy it would be for RG to focus on flyer support with how hard to hit they'd be.

Or Iron Hands bringing tons of super durable tanks.

Or Ultra Razors and Raiders crashing into front lines to tie them up in combat, then disengaging to blast the next turn.

Or Imperial Fists...well, they like their infantry so I guess it doesn't matter.

**Salcomine**

Hi, lurking for a while and running primaris imperial fists. Thought I'd add my experiences just went 4-0 and took 1st in a small local tournament. The list i have been running at 2000pts is a battalion and vanguard:

HQ
primaris captain(chapter master)
Lieutenant
Rhino primaris(only non primaris unit sort of)

Elite
Redemptor (storm bolters, onslaught cannons and pod)
5 Reivers (carbines, grav and grapples)
Primaris ancient ( relic banner)
3 aggressors ( flamers)

Troops
3x5 intercessors

Fast attack
6 bolter inceptors

Heavy
10 hellblasters
9 hellblasters

I run this exactly how you would expect everyone turtled around the captain and banner, with the intercessors working as my chaff. Overcharging plasma anytime the extra strength, wounds or shots would help. The chaptermaster and banner usually mitigate the burn outs but i do usually kill most of my hellblaster myself. Rerolling overwatch burning out guys then shooting again at full bs from the banner with rerolls is fun. If i dont feel like burning out guys i use the rhino to add+1 to hit on one of the hellblasters. I do like bolter drill situationally on the inceptors, the situation is dropping them within 6 of the warlord for rerolls, and +1 to hit from the rhino. Usually averages out to around 50 hits. Otherewise i usually combat squad them and just harrass stuff. The redemptor is a beast swinging in combat with chaptermaster and lietenant.

**Primark G**

I like it.

**Martel732**

Good job. Out of curiosity, how troublesome did you find multiwound weapons?

**Salcomine**

The only multi wound stuff i usually face is lascannons, krack missles etc pointed at my redemptor. I face mostly chaos marines and daemons and nids, not much 2d weapons outside of some laser destroyer mortar things. Hilarious to take 1d off a hellblaster with a lascannon.

**BrianDavion**

what chapter tactics did you run?

**Mandragola**

Well played at the tournament. Interesting point on the multi-damage weapons. A lot of the stuff that's good in the meta right now is about 1 damage attacks - things like devourer flyrants. These don't really have a huge impact on primaris marines, especially if you can find cover.

**Salcomine**

BrianDavion wrote:
what chapter tactics did you run?

Only the best imperial fists

Other things in the meta suck against primaris too like pinks and bloodletter bombs. 2 units of 20 pinks fully buffed failed to remove either unit of 5 intercessors. The lack of ap is great. The bloodletters managed to kill 5 intercessors but got wiped when they piled in on one of my big units of hellblasters.

Alot of the screen clearing people brought just didnt cut it against intercessors. Woulda killed like 50bguardsmen but only 8 intercessors.

Genestealers coming in killin most of 2 units of intercessors, fighting again and killing the rest. Intercessors still get to swing back on a 3+, killih a bunch. They piled into hellblasters and got punched half to death, the rest got moped up with small arms fire. Redemptor punched the mawloc and 2 carnis and most of ole one eye to death.

Rerolls to hit and 1s to wound are key for me like auxpex scanning 10 scarab occults with hellblasters, lost 2 hellblasters to overcharge but wiped the unit.

Primaris has been fun so far

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mandragola wrote:
Well played at the tournament. Interesting point on the multi-damage weapons. A lot of the stuff that's good in the meta right now is about 1 damage attacks - things like devourer flyrants. These don't really have a huge impact on primaris marines, especially if you can find cover.

The devourer tyrant on the side there put a single wound on the 5 man intercessor squad to the left, killed 3 in combat then got lit up by plasma

**Bonachinonin**

I've been running primaris with suprising success. I expected, based on the internet, for many armies to just walk through me, but the primaris prove really resilient. Its almost all primaris but for guilliman and a sicaran. My latest iteration is:

HQ
Primaris Captain in Gravis Armor
Primaris Librarian

Troop
2x5 Intercessors
1x5 Intercessors with stalker bolters

Elite
3x bolter aggressors
Sicaran Battle Tank
Primaris Ancient
Redemptor with onslaughts, bolters, pod

Fast Attack
3x bolter inceptors

Heavy Support
2x5 Hellblasters

LOW
Roboute Guilliman

I took it to a local RTT and ended up winning, going 3-0. Played against a DA gun line with Azrael, Tzeentch Daemon army, another guilliman army. That last game was unfortunate for my opponent. His gman charged my gman and I hit with 5 shots in overwatch and he fails 4 saves and dies. I look forward to getting some reivers. Primaris have a hard time getting into the enemies deployment and they may fit that role.

**BrianDavion**

Bonachinonin wrote:
I've been running primaris with suprising success. I expected, based on the internet, for many armies to just walk through me, but the primaris prove really resilient. Its almost all primaris but for guilliman and a sicaran. My latest iteration is:

HQ
Primaris Captain in Gravis Armor
Primaris Librarian

Troop
2x5 Intercessors
1x5 Intercessors with stalker bolters

Elite
3x bolter aggressors
Sicaran Battle Tank
Primaris Ancient
Redemptor with onslaughts, bolters, pod

Fast Attack
3x bolter inceptors

Heavy Support
2x5 Hellblasters

LOW
Roboute Guilliman

I took it to a local RTT and ended up winning, going 3-0. Played against a DA gun line with Azrael, Tzeentch Daemon army, another guilliman army. That last game was unfortunate for my opponent. His gman charged my gman and I hit with 5 shots in overwatch and he fails 4 saves and dies. I look forward to getting some reivers. Primaris have a hard time getting into the enemies deployment and they may fit that role.

the internet assumes every gun on the field is plasma always firing over charged always hitting etc

**Bonachinonin**

Since we're sharing pictures of our armies, here's mine. (not pictured is my banner or sicaran)

Spoiler:

**Neophyte2012**

Bonachinonin wrote:
I've been running primaris with suprising success. I expected, based on the internet, for many armies to just walk through me, but the primaris prove really resilient. Its almost all primaris but for guilliman and a sicaran. My latest iteration is:

HQ
Primaris Captain in Gravis Armor
Primaris Librarian

Troop
2x5 Intercessors
1x5 Intercessors with stalker bolters

Elite
3x bolter aggressors
Sicaran Battle Tank
Primaris Ancient
Redemptor with onslaughts, bolters, pod

Fast Attack
3x bolter inceptors

Heavy Support
2x5 Hellblasters

LOW
Roboute Guilliman

I took it to a local RTT and ended up winning, going 3-0. Played against a DA gun line with Azrael, Tzeentch Daemon army, another guilliman army. That last game was unfortunate for my opponent. His gman charged my gman and I hit with 5 shots in overwatch and he fails 4 saves and dies. I look forward to getting some reivers. Primaris have a hard time getting into the enemies deployment and they may fit that role.

It is not a bad list on the standard of Marine of 8th edition tbh. I think I would suggest replacing the Captain with a second Librarian, especially Tigirius. For that one more chance of deny the witch to lessen the pain of smite spam. Not know what is your meta like, maybe it is just me always confronts tons of mortal wounds.........

**Martel732**

Primaris are strong vs dakka and mortal wounds, but die miserably to multi-wound armies. Especially plasma. Plasma is just so efficient vs primaris, it cripples their viability, imo.

**Crimson_**

Did you have any success with those stalker bolters? I've done the same thing running 2x5 with bolt rifles and 1x5 with stalker bolters and they have done nothing for me except being resilient in cover on a objective.

**Mandragola**

Bonachinonin wrote:
Since we're sharing pictures of our armies, here's mine. (not pictured is my banner or sicaran)

Spoiler:

thats a great looking army. To be honest it probably wants to be photographed a bit better to really do it justice, but it’s excellent work.

**Tibs Ironblood**

Crimson_ wrote:
Did you have any success with those stalker bolters? I've done the same thing running 2x5 with bolt rifles and 1x5 with stalker bolters and they have done nothing for me except being resilient in cover on a objective.

I've never used them because on paper they look like trash. They increase the point cost on a unit that is already there to eat shots and stand in front of other more important stuff. You lose half of your rate of fire in 15 inches and suffer -1 to hit when you move. If they had the sniper rule they would be worth considering for a unit designed to sit back and camp, but until then they are pretty bad.

Honestly it seems all (minus one possible exception) of the primaris weapon choices are bad. The stock loadouts (assuming aggressor stock is the bolter variant) are all cheaper and more efficient for their job. The biggest offender is the hellblaster I think. You pay more points for weaker guns. Like why do they even have options when the alternatives are so bad?

**Bonachinonin**

The stalker bolters do ok. I built them thinking they look cool. The perform like standard intercessors outside of rapid fire range. The longer range has come into play a few times and they help shooting people in cover. Honestly, the difference is so minor. I use them as a hard to remove unit in the back field to hold an objective.

Also, my main opponent is a thousand son army. So I get smited (smitten?) a lot. I found the librarian and the captain with the sanctic halo is good enough. The smiting is let through most of the time in an effort to stop the stronger powers like warptime or -1 to hit. Interestingly, I played iron hands a couple times, and the chapter tactic was really helpful.

**Martel732**

The stalker bolters seem good against low T jerks in cover.

**ChargerIIC**

Crimson_ wrote:
Did you have any success with those stalker bolters? I've done the same thing running 2x5 with bolt rifles and 1x5 with stalker bolters and they have done nothing for me except being resilient in cover on a objective.

I've had a lot of success with Stalker Pattern Bolt Rifles, but they aren't really 'troop' choices at that point. You aren't going to be moving them if you can help it and they normally just sit still and shoot. -2AP is a sweet spot in this meta. I use 2 5 man DA squads with Stalkers but screen them with scouts and 2 squads of IH standard bolt rifle squads. I'd love to use Auto Bolt Rifles, but they aren't worth paying more points for.

**Bonachinonin**

Finished 1st in a local rtt of 20 people with my primaris army. Played sisters and then two daemon players. Some highlights include a 3 man aggressor unit shooting 67 times at a great unclean one, bringing it down to 2 wounds left. Killing scabbieathrax in a single turn, and killing 60 blood letters and 20 plaguebearers in a single turn (this was the last game, very intense).

**Sgt_Smudge**

I don't know if it's been mentioned here, but which is the best Captain choice to take? Gravis, plasma/fist, or the rifle Captain?