Can Necrons Reanimate killed Characters from an Attached Unit ?

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**SharpScissors**

Necrons reanimate when a Unit is below Starting Strength. When a 10 Model Necrons Unit with two attached Leaders lose one of them their Starting Strength goes from 12 to 11 and is below Starting Strength. Rules Commentary says when a destroyed leader is returned it Must attach to a Bodyguard Unit. Does this work ?

**tneva82**

When leader dies starting strength of unit is changed back to original. P12

**SharpScissors**

So it goes to 10 ignoring the other attached leader ? We have a 11 Model unit with Starting Strength of 10 ?

**nosferatu1001**

Starting strength of 11 as you still have a single leader.

**SharpScissors**

So they can reanimate a killed leader ?

**JNAProductions**

SharpScissors wrote:
So they can reanimate a killed leader ?

No. They cannot.

**nosferatu1001**

SharpScissors wrote:
So they can reanimate a killed leader ?

No, because they are not below their starting strength.

**SharpScissors**

Why not ? 11 is not below 12 ?

**tneva82**

The12thdiea ad whichpoint starting strength was changed.

Read..the...rules..rather...than...try...to...twist...them.

Alternatively if can't be bothered to read rules at least read responses. Or are you going to just ignore everything rules included?

**SharpScissors**

tneva82 wrote:
The12thdiea ad whichpoint starting strength was changed.

Read..the...rules..rather...than...try...to...twist...them.

Alternatively if can't be bothered to read rules at least read responses. Or are you going to just ignore everything rules included?

Rules say when leader is killed the unit goes back to original starting strength, which is 11. Necrons have a stratagem which resurrects a killed character. But how can a ressurected leader be back to his attached unit when the unit cannot be expanded beyond starting strength ? Its now 11 and going to 12 is not allowed ?

Returning Models to a Unit: Some rules resurrect or return models to their unit. Such models are added to their unit (see Adding Models to a Unit) along with any wargear and Enhancements they started the battle with. Such rules can never expand a unit beyond its Starting Strength; any additional models that would be returned beyond that point are ignored (the only exception to this is the Split ability of Pink Horrors and Blue Horrors). If such a rule returns models to a unit in the same phase they were destroyed, then for the purposes of allocating attacks later in the same phase, such models do not count as having lost any wounds or as already having had any attacks allocated to them this phase. If a Leader model is destroyed and subsequently returned to the battlefield, and the Bodyguard unit they were attached to is on the battlefield, they must be returned to that unit to form an Attached unit once more (otherwise, they are returned as a separate unit).

**DeathReaper**

SharpScissors wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
The12thdiea ad whichpoint starting strength was changed.

Read..the...rules..rather...than...try...to...twist...them.

Alternatively if can't be bothered to read rules at least read responses. Or are you going to just ignore everything rules included?

Rules say when leader is killed the unit goes back to original starting strength, which is 11. Necrons have a stratagem which resurrects a killed character. But how can a ressurected leader be back to his attached unit when the unit cannot be expanded beyond starting strength ? Its now 11 and going to 12 is not allowed ?

Returning Models to a Unit: Some rules resurrect or return models to their unit. Such models are added to their unit (see Adding Models to a Unit) along with any wargear and Enhancements they started the battle with. Such rules can never expand a unit beyond its Starting Strength; any additional models that would be returned beyond that point are ignored (the only exception to this is the Split ability of Pink Horrors and Blue Horrors). If such a rule returns models to a unit in the same phase they were destroyed, then for the purposes of allocating attacks later in the same phase, such models do not count as having lost any wounds or as already having had any attacks allocated to them this phase. If a Leader model is destroyed and subsequently returned to the battlefield, and the Bodyguard unit they were attached to is on the battlefield, they must be returned to that unit to form an Attached unit once more (otherwise, they are returned as a separate unit).

Yea, that's not how it works. re-read the starting strength rules.

**SharpScissors**

DeathReaper wrote:
Yea, that's not how it works. re-read the starting strength rules.

Ok. The rules say starting strength is the number of models in an unit when it is added to my army, which is 10.

Starting Strength: A unit’s Starting Strength is the number of models in it at the point that it is added to your army.

Rules commentary says a returned model cannot increase the number of models beyond starting strength. How can I return a destroyed leader to its bodyguard unit when it can’t go above starting strength ?

**DeathReaper**

SharpScissors wrote:
DeathReaper wrote:
Yea, that's not how it works. re-read the starting strength rules.

Ok. The rules say starting strength is the number of models in an unit when it is added to my army, which is 10.

Starting Strength: A unit’s Starting Strength is the number of models in it at the point that it is added to your army.

Rules commentary says a returned model cannot increase the number of models beyond starting strength. How can I return a destroyed leader to its bodyguard unit when it can’t go above starting strength ?

You can't add to a unit if it is at its starting strength.

**SharpScissors**

DeathReaper wrote:
SharpScissors wrote:
DeathReaper wrote:
Yea, that's not how it works. re-read the starting strength rules.

Ok. The rules say starting strength is the number of models in an unit when it is added to my army, which is 10.

Starting Strength: A unit’s Starting Strength is the number of models in it at the point that it is added to your army.

Rules commentary says a returned model cannot increase the number of models beyond starting strength. How can I return a destroyed leader to its bodyguard unit when it can’t go above starting strength ?

You can't add to a unit if it is at its starting strength.

Ok, leader from attached unit is killed, starting strength goes back to 10. Now destroyed leader returns and must be attached to its bodyguard unit, says rules commentary, but rules commentary also says you can’t add to a unit if it is at its starting strength. I don’t understand this.

**PaddyMick**

There could be other rules that bring a character back, specific to the character, and they have to be attached to the unit they were with, and it's got nothing to do with starting strength. In this case, starting strength rule seems to apply. Dunno.

**Pjats**

The rules commentary says this:

Returning Models to a Unit: Some rules resurrect or return models to their unit. Such models are added to their unit (see Adding Models to a Unit) along with any wargear and Enhancements they started the battle with. Such rules can never expand a unit beyond its Starting Strength; any additional models that would be returned beyond that point are ignored (the only exception to this is the Split ability of Pink Horrors and Blue Horrors). If such a rule returns models to a unit in the same phase they were destroyed, then for the purposes of allocating attacks later in the same phase, such models do not count as having lost any wounds or as already having had any attacks allocated to them this phase. If a Leader model is destroyed and subsequently returned to the battlefield, and the Bodyguard unit they were attached to is on the battlefield, they must be returned to that unit to form an Attached unit once more (otherwise, they are returned as a separate unit).

**solkan**

Note the rest of the unit strength paragraph:

The Starting Strength of an Attached unit is equal to the combined Starting Strengths of all of its units (i.e. the number of models in the Leader unit added to the number of models in the Bodyguard unit). If either the Leader unit or the Bodyguard unit in an Attached unit is destroyed, the Starting Strength of the remaining unit is changed to be equal to its original Starting Strength.

When the leader unit is destroyed, it stops being part of the unit, and the unit strength of whatever it had been attached to gets recalculated.

Reanimation Protocols doesn’t get used on completely destroyed units, it won’t bring a destroyed leader unit back.

**Pjats**

solkan wrote:
Note the rest of the unit strength paragraph:

The Starting Strength of an Attached unit is equal to the combined Starting Strengths of all of its units (i.e. the number of models in the Leader unit added to the number of models in the Bodyguard unit). If either the Leader unit or the Bodyguard unit in an Attached unit is destroyed, the Starting Strength of the remaining unit is changed to be equal to its original Starting Strength.

When the leader unit is destroyed, it stops being part of the unit, and the unit strength of whatever it had been attached to gets recalculated.

Reanimation Protocols doesn’t get used on completely destroyed units, it won’t bring a destroyed leader unit back.

Necrons have a strategem to bring a character back. That is what we are talking about.

**SharpScissors**

Pjats wrote:
The rules commentary says this:

Returning Models to a Unit: Some rules resurrect or return models to their unit. Such models are added to their unit (see Adding Models to a Unit) along with any wargear and Enhancements they started the battle with. Such rules can never expand a unit beyond its Starting Strength; any additional models that would be returned beyond that point are ignored (the only exception to this is the Split ability of Pink Horrors and Blue Horrors). If such a rule returns models to a unit in the same phase they were destroyed, then for the purposes of allocating attacks later in the same phase, such models do not count as having lost any wounds or as already having had any attacks allocated to them this phase. If a Leader model is destroyed and subsequently returned to the battlefield, and the Bodyguard unit they were attached to is on the battlefield, they must be returned to that unit to form an Attached unit once more (otherwise, they are returned as a separate unit).

Note the last sentence. It talks about returning a leader and becoming an Attached unit again. And the Attached Unit rule says this:

ATTACHED UNITS
Some Character units have the Leader ability (pg 39), which lets them merge with other units (known as Bodyguard units) to form an Attached unit. The Starting Strength of an Attached unit is equal to the combined Starting Strengths of all of its units (i.e.the number of models in the Leader unit added to the number of models in the Bodyguard unit).

So you have to return the leader to the Bodyguard unit and the starting strength becomes 12 in your example.

**BrookM**

Locking because OP is using a sock account to post somewhere they are not supposed to post, most disappointing.