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11 years ago I used to read about the Alpha Legion being traitor, and Alpharius as such, but recent years show the Alpha Legion to have both loyalist and traitor, and that now it was secretly Alpharius that was found first and not Horus. That they're secretly loyal, but act as traitors. And that there were two Primarchs and not one, Alpharius and Omegon.

I mean I'm not an Alpha Legion fan, but from my POV their lore got confusing. Someone like the DA went from Indians to English Knights. So how did one of the original traitor Primarchs and Legion end up confusing and not traitor as it was intended?

It was deliberately intended and introduced in the book Legion by Dan Abnett

I think the general gist is that the nature of gene seed is such that few, if any, truly know which side they’re on, or are meant to be on.

Consider the simple fact that once you start lying, for whatever reason, the web of deception becomes ever more complex and convulted.

I think being confusing/unclear is partially the point.

There was potential for them to go in a dramatic twist reveal direction in the HH series, but then the stuff with the primarchs just sort of went nowhere and petered out. Now, the AL subfactions themselves aren't entirely sure what the real goals/loyalties of their primarchs were. Which is supposed to be some of the... (irony? Tragedy?) of their story, I think. The faction with spies in every room that specializes in convoluted plans that require perfect coordination... no longer knows what's going on and thus struggles to coordinate.

You can have a warband composed of AL subfactions that don't even agree with each other on what their ultimate goals/loyalties are. You can have Emperor-haters teaming up with weird Emperor-fans so long as they both agree (at least in the short term) that achieving objective X is a good idea. Or because they find sharing information/resources valuable and killing off the people that disagree with them isn't worth the effort. Yet.

Harrowmaster does a good job of basically saying modern (40k) AL don't know the truth either and that whatever style/interpretation you have for your own AL is valid.

As others have stated the Alpha Legion's whole thing is being convoluted and confusing. You can never be sure what their agenda is, not even themselves.

But I think the internet memes, as usual, havw taken it a little too far. What if they were secretly loyal?! What if Alpharius was secretly found first?! What Alpharius is secretly the emperor?! What if the Alpha Legion is secretly made up entirely by Zoats?!

It gets a little silly.

Lord Zarkov wrote:
It was deliberately intended and introduced in the book Legion by Dan Abnett

Why? The take doesn't make sense. It deviates from the set up (like anything 40K these days).

 Mr Nobody wrote:
As others have stated the Alpha Legion's whole thing is being convoluted and confusing. You can never be sure what their agenda is, not even themselves.

But I think the internet memes, as usual, havw taken it a little too far. What if they were secretly loyal?! What if Alpharius was secretly found first?! What Alpharius is secretly the emperor?! What if the Alpha Legion is secretly made up entirely by Zoats?!

It gets a little silly.

That however goes against the fact, that despite beeing this organised they manage to fully organise themselves out of shards into ful blown highly competent forces when they want to.

Infact that alone indicates that their agenda and aims are known to all, else they wouldn't be able to do so repeatedly even if pushed back.

Basically on a military side, you got a force that can disprese and reform in the blink of an eye, hinting at organisation, structure and communication capabilites far above a guerilla force or an confused army that can't even formulate a plan together, respectivly doesn't even know it's own history anymore. Otoh you have said portrayal in which they seemingly have no clue what their aims once were.

 F.E.A.R. wrote:

Lord Zarkov wrote:
It was deliberately intended and introduced in the book Legion by Dan Abnett

Why? The take doesn't make sense. It deviates from the set up (like anything 40K these days).

For a long time the Alpha Legion were rarely mentioned as anything other than one of the traitor legions and there were a couple of pictures of them. There was this idea of the many headed hydra and then being a legion that used brain over brawn but I think when Abnett was asked to write legion they were a bit of a blank canvas. And GW had decided they wanted the HH be spread across 1 million books so they needed new story arcs for each legion and make them detailed and interlink with each other.

The idea is that AL were shown potential futures where the Emperor defeated Horus but the led to humanity growing unstoppably across the galaxy and then fuelling chaos exponentially which allows chaos to destroy everything in the materium. But if Horus wins he will go into a guilt fuelled rage destroying the imperium and chaos in the process. And humanity survive in smaller groups, like the eldar I guess.

So they joined Horus in loyalty to humanity’s survival

But I think over the following books they change their mind and try to play their own game and get a different outcome but alpharius becomes disillusioned with the emperor and he falls out with omegon about the direction they should be following leading to alpharius death and omegon disappearing with the remnant of the legion.

But then GW have released books that are designed to make you wonder if any of that is true because they are more interested in branding than story

If you look at Alpha Legion background in the 2nd edition Chaos Codex, they seemed to have a "youngest brother complex" in that they were resentful and jealous of the older Legions and wanted to show themselves their equals or betters. They joined Horus for this challenge and the 2nd edition Codex describes how they started waging their own campaign and setting their own military objectives without real reference to what others were doing as the Heresy wore on.

Their "degeneration" over the ages may take a different form from the more overtly Chaotic Legions that sport tentacles and chant the praises of the Chaos gods. The Alpha Legion may very well still think they are fighting for a goal, but they may be deceiving themselves. They may set military objectives as if they were still fighting some organized campaign, but the real objective may simply be to cause random mayhem. They may have lost their true purpose without knowing it.

For example, they may justify raiding and blowing up Imperial supply depots or capturing interstellar transports as disrupting the Imperium's supply lines, but their true effect on the overall logistical situation may be minor, insignificant or irrelevant (if for example the sector has surplus capacity or is not actively engaged in war). In reality, it may just be piracy under a different name, even if they don't themselves believe it to be such.

Even those in the Alpha Legion that believe themselves loyalists in the long run may succumb to this erosion of purpose. Their attacks might be justified as "serving the long term interests of humanity and the Emperor" and acting as double agents within Chaos, even though it really just amounts to smash and grab raiding.

With their decentralized structure, it may also be a situation of the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing. Instead of any coherent plan, they might just be individual units acting like any other warband, though in this case they might still be convinced they are serving some higher purpose.

I think that’s the idea in 40K, alpha legion is split into cells across the galaxy operating totally independent and some have gone full choas. They may all be operating under Oder that date back thousands of years but knowing GW if they flesh out AL in 40K there will be a puppet master. Probably omegon.

From what I got, they were actually traitors until they got actually expanded in the various Horus heresy books and stuff, where they got their newer fluff with much more details and became the ambiguous loyal traitors we know and love.

Legion is a bad book and the inner struggles of the XXth are the only saving grace of the story.

Honestly, I'd have liked to see a greater expansion of that internal struggle, even just as side plots in other novels. Traitor XXth forces infiltrating the Shattered Legions only to come up against Loyalist XXth sent to stop them, only to end up causing even more damage to the Loyalist cause in the process.
Alpharius and Omegon coming to blows because the latter cannot believe his brother would believe Xenos over their own father.

The mystery got opened up and then just dumped with the XXth left to be cameos in other Legion books.

Alot of this is covered extensively in the Harrowmaster novel:

The legion is fractured and inconsistant with conflicting views on what and why they are fighting, it also states that the legion has spent most of its time in realspace and has been recuruting since the Heresy so many of their number are hundreds or less years old. Some even claim to still be loyalists but there is a ever growing issue that many are not really sure what they are fighting for and the fight has become their purpose. The main character says that if their Primarchs had a plan its been forgotten.

Its a really good read and even highlights that the whole "it was always part of the plan" has become a pscylogocial weapon even when they are defeated they try to appear that it wasn't really a defeat....

Or in other words, "I meant to do that!"

Which is actually true just often enough that you can't be sure whether the Alpha Legionairre whose unit you just chased off is telling the truth, or trying to salvage the remains of his ego when he taunts you with it while rapidly vacating your space.

Realistically? Yes they are traitors. Even if Alpharius or Omegon is still kicking around, or whoever it is that is now the HBIC of the Legion, etc. are secretly loyalists, the rank and file don't know any better and are full-on traitors. Alpha Legion leadership may be sending them on missions to secretly defend the Imperium or harm other chaos forces, but the rank and file don't and won't know that, they are just following the orders of their superiors who have their own secret agendas. And thats assuming they still have central leadership at all and aren't operating as fractured autonomous warbands - its unlikely that the leaders of those warbands would necessarily be aware of any secret loyalist intentions that existed at the time of the heresy at this point.

The Alpha Legion were led in a way similar to Carlson’s Raiders, so I’m not so sure the leadership is so easily isolated a body.

Eumerin wrote:
Or in other words, "I meant to do that!"

Which is actually true just often enough that you can't be sure whether the Alpha Legionairre whose unit you just chased off is telling the truth, or trying to salvage the remains of his ego when he taunts you with it while rapidly vacating your space.

Yea the novel is pretty good with both Al characters and Inquisitors talking about it.

 F.E.A.R. wrote:

Lord Zarkov wrote:
It was deliberately intended and introduced in the book Legion by Dan Abnett

Why? The take doesn't make sense. It deviates from the set up (like anything 40K these days).

To be fair, it was trying to give them any background beyond 'sneaky marines.' Their brief snippet in the original Realm of Chaos: Slaves to Darkness book is a very vague caption under the original chapter symbol (a simple looped 'O' with lines to the left and right out of the top. (basically you'd draw it from one end of the line, loop through the o and out the top again to the other side). Basically, search for the google version of the 'curly loop emoji')

Their banner was a demon impaled (through the mouth) by a not-quite-Slaaneshi symbol which branched out at the bottom to form a frame around itself. The caption text read 'the fearsome contortions in the Alpha Legion's emblem is matched by the twisted minds and bodies of the Legionnaires.' That's it. That's the starting background they had to work with (which implies a heavy level of mutation)

As Wyldhunt says, the Abnett background is unclear for a reason. Partly narrative but mostly because chaos is 40k is distressingly straightforward, even Tzeentch most of the time. Having an actual muddled mess of a legion is the point.

I actually liked the 2nd edition version where they were the younger brother with a chip on his shoulder trying to prove themselves to the older Legions, and then gaining organizational immortality but losing their mind/purpose in the process. It's a more subtle degeneration than that of the 4 Legions that have pledged themselves to a Chaos god or the cartoonishly evil Word Bearers or Iron Warriors. The Alpha Legion are now fighting a war in which they no longer really know why or for whom they are fighting. Each head of the hydra is now doing its own thing.

Based on the FW HH black books, the Alpha Legion still have the whole "chip on the shoulder" deal going on too.

I'm glad I am not the only person who dislikes Legion.

Iracundus wrote:
I actually liked the 2nd edition version where they were the younger brother with a chip on his shoulder trying to prove themselves to the older Legions, and then gaining organizational immortality but losing their mind/purpose in the process. It's a more subtle degeneration than that of the 4 Legions that have pledged themselves to a Chaos god or the cartoonishly evil Word Bearers or Iron Warriors. The Alpha Legion are now fighting a war in which they no longer really know why or for whom they are fighting. Each head of the hydra is now doing its own thing.

Thats exactly the lore in Harrowmaster so its current again

I could take or leave the "younger brother" thing. It's kind of an appropriate trait for a legion full of smart guys that think they're smarter than everyone else and also think that setting unorthodox objectives for themselves means that they're the ones fighting wars in a way that matters. Getting annoyed when some Dark Angel brags about how much more accomplished his legion is than yours is understandable.

But an entire legion of guys who are insecure about their kill counts is kind of lame and weirdly short-sighted.

I kind of like the version where they were mostly performing black ops and setting the stage for other legions, then feigned their hunger for glory as a way of building ties with other legions. The insecurities/desire for recognition can be fun flaws, but it's a bit cringe if it's one of their major traits.

Also, I actually liked Legion. I just didn't like that it then proceeded to go basically nowhere. John Grammaticus mattered more to the overall plot than the big prophecy twist or twin-on-twin subterfuge did.

I liked legion but gave up on HH because there were too many books and after legion is where they start to be becomes disappointing. However reading the synopsis of the later books I kind of feel like Alpha Legion lost their way in the overall story.

If the AL are still operating as splinter cells they must have a purpose, even if that purpose is a lie, which wouldn’t surprise me. They seem to spend a lot of time setting up cults and civil wars etc they wouldn’t do it just for laughs.

They must also have a lot of faith to do this for 10k years without solid leadership.

The idea was established that Alpha Legion could transfer their souls from one body to another, this is a side effect of Alpharius and Omegon being twins. Infact there were referred to, quite early I think, as one soul in 2 bodies. Perhaps all Alpha Legion have some sort of soil bond that counts as the body of the hydra and keeps them connected as each head of the beast does different things.

Either that or it’s going to be something quite bland that they have become a sort of independent black ops organisation doing jobs for anyone with the money and connections

I'm pretty sure the OP is alpharius (or maybe Omegron) and the whole purpose of those thread is to sow confusion and discord.

mrFickle wrote:
I liked legion but gave up on HH because there were too many books and after legion is where they start to be becomes disappointing. However reading the synopsis of the later books I kind of feel like Alpha Legion lost their way in the overall story.

Agreed. Having a somewhat convoluted twist/mystery as a plot point is fine, but setting it up and then never really mentioning it again is just annoying in hindsight. If you're going to give a faction an exclusive peek at a prophecy fortelling the outcome of the whole series and then establish that the twins are keeping secrets from each other... you probably ought to have that pay off in some way.

If the AL are still operating as splinter cells they must have a purpose, even if that purpose is a lie, which wouldn’t surprise me. They seem to spend a lot of time setting up cults and civil wars etc they wouldn’t do it just for laughs.

They must also have a lot of faith to do this for 10k years without solid leadership.

We get a pretty clear idea of how and why the AL are operating in Harrow Master and Sons of the Hydra. They don't know whether the twins are really alive or dead (and some are desperate for them to be alive). They don't have knowledge of a big scheme beyond whatever the current warlord they're following has up his sleeve. Different warbands do what they do for different reasons. Some see themselves as loyalists, taking on a corrupt imperium, or pointing out security flaws to encourage the imperium to grow stronger. Some are just trying to survive in a galaxy that has declared them heretics. Some are full on chaos boys. We see, for instance, a band of AL marines that are essentially khorne berzerkers.

They work in "cells," but they're not a monlith that's broken up into cells due to great organizational skills. Rather, a lot of them are just small warbands that don't want to hang out with their brothers. The cells you find on a planet are typically made up mostly of mortals ("cultists" though the term is potentially a misnomer) that they use as spies, saboteurs, and canon fodder as well as potential recruits. Some warbands rely more heavily on their mortal elements than others.

They still pull off schemes, not because they're following some secret plot laid out by Alpharius but because that's simply their modus operandi. If they need supplies and decide to take them from an imperial outpost, they'd rather use trickery and sabotage to maximize their gains and minimize their losses.

The idea was established that Alpha Legion could transfer their souls from one body to another, this is a side effect of Alpharius and Omegon being twins. Infact there were referred to, quite early I think, as one soul in 2 bodies. Perhaps all Alpha Legion have some sort of soil bond that counts as the body of the hydra and keeps them connected as each head of the beast does different things.

There does seem to be some sort of supernatural primarch weirdness going on, but it's certainly not so overt as to keep the AL on the same page/in the know. They are very thoroughly established to not have an overarching plan or guidance. They just happen to be one of the relatively level-headed legions, so they're pretty good at sharing communal secret bases and intel and occassionally working together when it suits them.

Anybody read Head of the Hydra?

The first two lines in the book:
"I am Alpharius.
This is a lie."

Pure gold...one of the best AL books out there.

How can you tell what is truth or misinformation when it comes to AL anymore?

The Alpha Legion has become in the lore a many headed Hydra that is so shrouded with obfuscation and deception that even it's own heads do not know the others true goals. Many heads have goals that fall under the "traitor" category, but there are also some that may have more "loyalist" aims. The why to how exactly this happened is explained a bit in the Siege of Terra novels. Personally, I enjoy this approach to the Alpha Legion, since to me it is much more interesting than the "younger brother who went traitor just to prove they are better than everyone else" thing that was really all they had going before.

 Wyldhunt wrote:


They still pull off schemes, not because they're following some secret plot laid out by Alpharius but because that's simply their modus operandi. If they need supplies and decide to take them from an imperial outpost, they'd rather use trickery and sabotage to maximize their gains and minimize their losses.

I would not be surprised if their last orders (or their default standing orders) were to "sustain yourself by whatever means and build a network of pawns to gather information and for future use, while awaiting further orders". The further orders never came and are never coming but they continue to believe or delude themselves that it is all part of a greater plan. The true traitors obviously would have no qualms about raiding the Imperium to sustain themselves, while even the secret loyalists could justify their actions in any number of ways. It could range from maintaining their cover, weeding out the weak of the Imperium, or even just as a regrettable necessity yet still necessary since "obviously" the needs of the Alpha Legion come first over the lesser needs of other Imperials.

Over time, this simple directive could spawn a huge number of lesser objectives, all in the name of sustaining themselves for a call to action that will never come.

Iracundus wrote:

 Wyldhunt wrote:


They still pull off schemes, not because they're following some secret plot laid out by Alpharius but because that's simply their modus operandi. If they need supplies and decide to take them from an imperial outpost, they'd rather use trickery and sabotage to maximize their gains and minimize their losses.

I would not be surprised if their last orders (or their default standing orders) were to "sustain yourself by whatever means and build a network of pawns to gather information and for future use, while awaiting further orders". The further orders never came and are never coming but they continue to believe or delude themselves that it is all part of a greater plan. The true traitors obviously would have no qualms about raiding the Imperium to sustain themselves, while even the secret loyalists could justify their actions in any number of ways. It could range from maintaining their cover, weeding out the weak of the Imperium, or even just as a regrettable necessity yet still necessary since "obviously" the needs of the Alpha Legion come first over the lesser needs of other Imperials.

Over time, this simple directive could spawn a huge number of lesser objectives, all in the name of sustaining themselves for a call to action that will never come.

Sure. With or without overt orders, I imagine that's how a lot of AL ended up handling the lack of updates/information.

"We may not know what's going on or what the plan is, but we can build up our resources and gather information until we do."

I'm actually a little surprised the AL are having as hard a time as they seem to be in Harrowmaster. We know that they're quite good at building up mortal cults and pulling off tricky schemes. Given enough time and a few heretechs to help make new astartes, I'd think they'd be pretty good at accumulating large stockpiles of resources, marines, and mortal agents. Heck. I'd almost expect them to be able to take control of entire sectors in rapid succession given enough prep time. Maybe the lack of long-term cooperation means that some of the less patient factions keep jumping the gun and using up their accumulated resources?

 Lord Clinto wrote:
Anybody read Head of the Hydra?

The first two lines in the book:
"I am Alpharius.
This is a lie."

Pure gold...one of the best AL books out there.

How can you tell what is truth or misinformation when it comes to AL anymore?

I don’t like this. As a reader I want to see the story play out where alpharius tricks other characters. I don’t want to be lied to via the 4th wall


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I think the alpha legion as a whole are doing fine, they aren’t building up resources for war but seem to have operatives in every major faction in the galaxy. Other legions and chapters especially. And wasn’t there a story about an assassination attempt on alpharius and the heads of the assassins turned up in a refrigeration unit in the im perils palace? Implying that the AL are everywhere. But I might have that story confused with something else