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Manchu wrote:
Pity about that Troy thing, hopefully it's past. It'd be nice to keep that kind of anomaly out of the data.

Looks like someone reported him for spamming, so perhaps he won't be commenting for a while. Who knows, though. Even without him, this whole thing has a rather unusually talky community to it.

I know what you mean about too good not to pledge. I'm wondering it that 210 mark will ultimately sound the same to me.

Yeah. Originally I was thinking about the Real Aliens level, but then I realized I was really just doubling up on the box components at the start.

We really need some more media, whether vids or pics or what have you, to find out.

Yeah, I agree. I'm a rather avid wargamer and rules whore, and I've yet to play Prodos' ruleset. I'm interested in seeing how it runs, because if I like it I will totally adapt it to other things it could fit. If not, I'll always have Tomorrow's War, Stargrunt 2, The Regiment, 5150, and a half-dozen other rules I can use for it. It's not a big deal, but it's sort of an icing thing that I would like. Plus more shots of the models is always a good thing (though their recent graphic reveals a bit more about the poses you can put them in; I can hash out roughly how the Aliens look from it).

 warboss wrote:
There should be a single freebie pledge IMO and the company should reward bigger pledgers but keeping it simple and giving them multiples of the "freebie" pledge level. Pledging twice the freebie level? You get twice the freebies. The structure of getting benefit A at pledge level 1 but getting benefit B only at pledge level 2 which is double pledge level 1 when benefit B isn't twice benefit A because benefit C is combined with it is as confusing in the KS as it is in this giant run-on sentence.

What I do (parttime for now but still) nowadays is basically not-accountant's-work-but-working-closely-with-them and I had to spend five minutes running numbers between just two options after Manchu called me on it.
...And promptly turned out to have been wrong.

So yeah, I agree. I was toying with the idea of a way to apply 'subjective' value to certain objects in certain quantities (like to have 10 marines very much, ten more somewhat, over that - no use so non-linear "emodollar" values for different amounts of the same thing, basically) and using a spreadsheet to figure out what would be best at what budget, for your subjective needs.
Just a funny idea, nothing serious. Still, I figure for something like bones (or bones II), or mars attacks, or Mierce's stuff, it would have been easy enough - the things to consider before you can get it to halfway work with this monster of a project pile up staggeringly quick, though.
And that's just 8 pledge levels (most of which should be on a scale of increasing value for money for bigger pledges no matter, theoretically) with only 17 add-ons, some of which are dice, and most of which are base game components.
I don't think I've ever seen a KS as convoluted as this and after some of Mantic's offerings (anyone remember that KoW KS page by the end? Good God...) that is a problem.

Take CMoN (and yeah, I know...): ZCS2 had a few pledge levels, and just straight-up add-ons. Value was just there, and there was no reasonable way you would ever have to make any complex considerations (reminding people they're actually not that smart while asking them for money is generally a bad idea... ) anywhere near this level; Mantic's MA was more complex, but even there, once you got your head around the pledge credit system, it was pretty straightforward.
This? Feth, I'm not even going to bother - every time a new stretch gets added you can start all over again; certain bits of pledge credit only apply to certain add-ons, there's different thresholds for what level of stretch benefits you get... Feth... I'll have to basically know **precisely** what I want, complete with well-considered "subjective" values to myself quantified in a nice (and probably hideous, at that point) excel sheet, and just do cold hard math the last fifteen minutes of the fething project.
I don't really mind, I'm sufficiently fanatical to do it and it has a certain charm but it's not something I'd consider good sales practice.
And with the way certain bits of pledge credit are only available to use on certain models I'm not blind-pledging and hoping for a chance to throw in a few quid more, worst come to.

...They really, really should open up that selective credit for general use, at least for higher pledges (say, 155 and up or so, I can understand not wanting to give a praetorian with a bare basic box pledge somewhat).

 Andilus Greatsword wrote:
For the game add-on, it's almost certainly a hardcover rulebook. Fingers crossed for it being a free add-on since the rulebook doesn't seem to be included in the box...

I think the old pictures showed a pamphlet like rulebook for the boardgame. The hardcover rulebook will be for the war game. I doubt it will be free.


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Justice and Rule wrote:
I'll always have Tomorrow's War

That's a great rules set. I just think AvP needs something a little more zoomed in with more RPG elements.

 Andilus Greatsword wrote:
Ok time for more speculating then? Further stretch goals are an Alien mini, a game-based add-on, a Predator mini, a USCM mini, another Alien mini and then the Queen.

So for the Alien goals, we've been told that there's going to be a creature from the AVP arcade game. Of these, there's only two unique creatures - Chrysalis and Razor Claws. Of the two, Chrysalis is more likely since Razor Claws seems to be a one-off creature... plus the Chrysalis looks so much cooler. I imagine it'll be the last Alien add-on before the Queen... of course, assuming this is true anyway. As for the other Alien add-on, it's a bit of a mystery. If they don't dig into the EU more then I'd have to venture a guess at Chestbursters.

Hm. There's a lot of material to crib from the comics, but I'm kind of at a loss to put my finger on just one thing. I don't think it'll be chestbursters, though. Perhaps an intermediate stage between Warrior and Praetorian? Elite Warrior? Stealth Drone?

For the game add-on, it's almost certainly a hardcover rulebook. Fingers crossed for it being a free add-on since the rulebook doesn't seem to be included in the box...

Yeah, it's just a download, isn't it? A Hardcover rulebook would definitely be a nice thing, though you'll likely have to put down some cash on it. I'm hoping for synthetics here, more than anything.

The Predator mini is probably cloaked Predators in clear resin, since Prodos has said that these exist. If not then my only other guess is an Ancient Predator... although now that I think about it, that'd be pretty badass.

Definitely. I think it's going to end up as the cloaked ones, but an Elder Predator could be REALLY cool if done properly.

For the USCM, fingers crossed on a power loader. Holy crap would that ever be cool!

As much as I know it is going to be exactly that, I kind of want it to be Marine Support Weapons like the SADAR, a sniper, and other things that could be great for the wargame. Hell, the SADAR would be pretty damn useful against the Queen.

Manchu wrote:

That's a great rules set. I just think AvP needs something a little more zoomed in with more RPG elements.

Yeah, I love AAG, and I do kind of agree here. But I've got ideas on how to hack in more RPG elements into TW if I need to, like assigning dice to individual statistics rather than all around (Offense, Defense, Melee, etc...). But hopefully these rules will be as interesting as those.

A sniper and a SADAR (that's a heat-seaking shoulder-fired missile, for the uninitiated like me, 30sec ago) would make a great way to round out the marine unit, to say the least. bundle together with the sergeant for 3 men at 15 quid, if they're feeling really, really sweet allow the first freebie stretch goal to be used to purchase them, and that would make a lot of folks happy.

...I know I'd finally have the proxy fusiliers I've been on the hunt for

 Bolognesus wrote:
A sniper and a SADAR (that's a heat-seaking shoulder-fired missile, for the uninitiated like me, 30sec ago) would make a great way to round out the marine unit, to say the least. bundle together with the sergeant for 3 men at 15 quid, if they're feeling really, really sweet allow the first freebie stretch goal to be used to purchase them, and that would make a lot of folks happy.

...I know I'd finally have the proxy fusiliers I've been on the hunt for

Heh, definitely. I have the Colonial Marines Technical Manual, and I'd point out that the ghillie suit the sniper has also regulates his heat signature. Nasty surprise for anyone thinking they could find every human using thermals, eh?

I don't think we'll see any more Alien units than the ones we already know are on the way.
Face Huggers (Fuggers anyone?), Drones, Runners, Warriors, Praetorians, PredAlien & Queen.

Predators need an Elder or elite model. Something with a spear at any rate.

I hope the Berserker Pred, because he's a one off will look badass and more armoured/substantially bigger than the regular Preds.

What I really, really, really want to see for the marines is a badass female commando like Vasquez. Hell just make Vasquez and give her a different name. Without knowing the rules I'm just going to go ahead and say she needs a special rule... prizes for what I think it should be called...

I've gotten to the point where, yes, I too think this needs more Marines!

Justice and Rule wrote:

 Bolognesus wrote:
A sniper and a SADAR (that's a heat-seaking shoulder-fired missile, for the uninitiated like me, 30sec ago) would make a great way to round out the marine unit, to say the least. bundle together with the sergeant for 3 men at 15 quid, if they're feeling really, really sweet allow the first freebie stretch goal to be used to purchase them, and that would make a lot of folks happy.

...I know I'd finally have the proxy fusiliers I've been on the hunt for

Heh, definitely. I have the Colonial Marines Technical Manual, and I'd point out that the ghillie suit the sniper has also regulates his heat signature. Nasty surprise for anyone thinking they could find every human using thermals, eh?

...crap, no option for TO on that unit. Well, I might still have to get creative with a weapon swap or two, then

 Alpharius wrote:
I've gotten to the point where, yes, I too think this needs more Marines!

It does. As part of the base game and not as a mere addon.

It is kind of a weird sensation; the marines are supposed to be something akin to cannon(/alien) fodder, but there's three times as many aliens as there are marines just in the box. Three preds vs. fifteen aliens I can see happening but five marines? they ought to have trouble with one or two, really.

It's half of what they had in Aliens...maybe they got mauled prior to the board game's start? Either that or they got hit before coming out of stasis. Now there's a way to wake up!

Perhaps the high number of aliens is to compensate for them potentially not all starting on the table (randomly coming out of walls, terrain, etc. over the course of the game)

If the comments get out of hand again, here's what to do about it. Apparently KS support acts really quickly on stuff like this!


Good to know they keep an eye on that stuff / basically have some moderators over there, at least!

...good god that guy makes chris valera seem positively pleasant. Geesh.

Yeah I know- and if you look through his past comments, he acted very similarly on Sedition Wars and Zombicide kickstarters.

It's pretty clear Kickstarter did something, though, as he suddenly stopped posting . He was in pretty clear violoation of this part of their rules... which is pretty much the same as "Be Polite" over here, except that there you shouldn't even be able to comment on a campaign you truly dislike, as you aren't a backer.

Kickstarter Rules wrote:Be respectful and considerate

If you don't like a project, don't back it. No need to be a jerk.

It was interesting to browse through his comments... especially the Sedition Wars stuff where I thought he was trolling by posting that he'd just destroyed all his minis before asking for a refund but then was shocked to find out that that's actually what CMoN are asking backers on that KS to do. 0_o

 scarletsquig wrote:
It was interesting to browse through his comments... especially the Sedition Wars stuff where I thought he was trolling by posting that he'd just destroyed all his minis before asking for a refund but then was shocked to find out that that's actually what CMoN are asking backers on that KS to do. 0_o

This might be a bit off topic, but CMoN was asking what?

Manchu wrote:
Oh it was just backer drama.

As opposed to Dakka drama?

Apparently, they could get a refund if they proved that they destroyed their copy of the game, or somesuch madness. Probably best to discus that over here, though.

If it truly has come to that, though... whoa . At least quality shouldn't be an issue here, with hand cast resin miniatures, just price!

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Manchu wrote:
Oh it was just backer drama.

As opposed to Dakka drama?

It's funny you mention that because I was just thinking about why we can't have a nice clear rule like KS has. Being a discussion forum, we can't just say "if you don't want to back it, don't post about it." That would be a neat solution BUT it also wouldn't be a reasonable one because this isn't a storefront as it were. We're more like a bar. People come here to complain, among other things. The don't be a jerk part is still valid, of course. But that's hardly a bright line.


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 Bolognesus wrote:
the marines are supposed to be something akin to cannon(/alien) fodder

I don't think that's necessarily accurate. All the games and even parts of Aliens (the James Cameron movie) point to the xenomorphs being the real canon fodder.

I agree with Manchu, in my mental images the bulk of the Marines will die eventually, but the questions is how many Xenos will they take down along the way?

Edit: But then you also have the popular Inverse Ninja rule in play.

1 Ninja = Unstoppable Killing machine.
100 Ninja = Easily killed mooks.

The more of something there is, the more less badass it is.

Same deal with Preds, a lone pred can take out almost the whole merc team (Predator) but when there are multiple Preds less equipped humans can kill them easier (Predators)

I think they said about some point the AvP arcade character would be some kind of spitting alien?

Spitters you say?



Also, Xenopedia, the Aliens (and Predators) wiki has picked up on the KS and having daily updates on it.

Maybe the smartgun will be really powerful evening out the marines lack of numbers, and if I see right they have a flamer int he tunit also right? those 2 combined with 3 pulse rifles is quite punchy.

Granted it's not 3 predator punchy levels, but maybe the game balances it and not everything is used at once in any missions.

I'd like to see some more marine weapon variants, SMG, Battle rifle, and have a SADAR as an upgrade 1-2 shot thing.

Wouldn't surprise me if they do throw in an exo loader to even out the marines Vs the bigger Aliens and preds.

Over All they still have tons of types for each of the aliens, marines and predator factions to make models for... and if i remember was there mention of 6 factions? if so Weyland, maybe pirate, mercs (Like the smallcrew in resurection or a berserker team and for the third government forces or an explorer corp.

I would have liked to have seen more hype and lead up to this kick starter before they released as it would have in creased numbers of backers and increased interest both sides of the fence.

The extra time could have been useful to allow more details to leak out on what they are up to, back ground,rules concepts, etc.

happy to back but this seems more a we have a licence and its going to go maybe like this with maybe these.

 adlard.matthew wrote:
I would have liked to have seen more hype and lead up to this kick starter before they released as it would have in creased numbers of backers and increased interest both sides of the fence.

The extra time could have been useful to allow more details to leak out on what they are up to, back ground,rules concepts, etc.

happy to back but this seems more a we have a licence and its going to go maybe like this with maybe these.

I thought they did a decent lead up. And they have a board game with listed contents, a KS version with resin figures and later in 2014 a retail version with 1 piece plastic figs. They are making a 'wargame' as well. and we know the rules for that will be based on their Warzone rules. We know that the resin figures will be available after the KS for use in the wargame. I'm really not sure how you translate all that into "we have a licence and its going to go maybe like this with maybe these". It would seem they have a pretty good idea where they are going with this.

Why is anyone who has seen Aliens (with a dozen Marines and hundreds of Aliens) surprised to have more Aliens than Marines in the box?

I seem to recall just one of the buggers being a huge threat already, somehow - but I could well be mistaken and in any case, Vain's Inverse Ninja rule certainly does apply.

Close to 175k now and we've reached 1150 backers.