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 Alpharius wrote:
This IP does feel like it 'should' be moving faster, whatever that means, I guess?

Maybe it's time for... d...d...d...d...d...d...d...d...damage control!!!

 warboss wrote:
Agreed. Confusing pledge levels/rewards and an improving but still relative lack of value IMO are holding it back.

Yep, I'm still not in on this one despite being keen pre-ks. Not enough value to warrant jumping in now over (possibly) picking it up at retail. Ahh well still some time left, will keep watching.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
This IP does feel like it 'should' be moving faster, whatever that means, I guess?

Maybe it's time for... d...d...d...d...d...d...d...d...damage control!!!

So soon? I don't have any of my reasons I'm threatening to drop my pledge prepared!

Gameplay video tomorrow should help ease things. I'm just happy about the Crusher still

Joyboozer wrote:
So soon? I don't have any of my reasons I'm threatening to drop my pledge prepared!

Reason? You don't need a reason!

Joyboozer wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
This IP does feel like it 'should' be moving faster, whatever that means, I guess?

Maybe it's time for... d...d...d...d...d...d...d...d...damage control!!!

So soon? I don't have any of my reasons I'm threatening to drop my pledge prepared!

Sockie for Azazelx or is it just an "Australian Thing"?!?

What material are the minis made of?

Resin.

Thanks! Is it polyurethan or some other type of resin?

That's the part where my brain goes "deeeeeeeeeerp", can't help you there, though I'm sure someone else has the answer.

They're listed as urethane plastic on the main page.

According to wikipedia...

Urethane can refer to
- Carbamates, compounds with the functional group RO(CO)NHR'
- Ethyl carbamate, the colloquial name of which is urethane
- Polyurethane in colloquial usage

(I'm none the wiser !)

It's plastic you can only glue with super glue.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
This IP does feel like it 'should' be moving faster, whatever that means, I guess?

Maybe it's time for... d...d...d...d...d...d...d...d...damage control!!!

They tried that aggain. It didn't work so hot this time.
The consumers saw this as a mini wargame instead of a boardgame by the exclusion of a grid system. they are in part correct, but I'll gt back to that in a minute...
Backtracking later, they said that a grid was going to be included. Too late. The association to miniature wargames and the reviled GW (remember kids, when some people think of miniature wargames, they think of GW). Many backers were bleeding away. If they weren't bled away, the day would have been better and likely would have beat 185k by now.

So anyways, why "grided = board game" mentality.
Grided boards have a much tighter set of granularity patterns. You can calculate that in order to get from one predetermined spot to the next, it will be precisely x spaces. Not so in more freeform games without a grid which are not only less convenient, but seem "not as good" as games on a grid.
Games on a grid hide the fact that it is a simulation better than if they lack a grid. Simulation games (ameritrash) are typically not really warmly regarded by eurogamers who are more used to tightly controlled parameters.

Enter Space Hulk.

Space Hulk blurred the lines of simulation because, other than the dice rolling, the randomness associated with simulations wasn't present. It is more strategic than it is tactical. A very important distinction.
And while every boardgamer knows that you can use models in space hulk in 40k, they also know that space hulknis its own, very well designed, self contained game.

So the expectations and hopes of many boardgamers have halted, or at least more slowly progressed. That's not to say this won't be a great game on its own merits in a smaller scale, but from the consumer perspective the distinction between board game and wargame for AVP is merely that the board game uses basic rules on a quickly retconned board, now replete with a grid.
This is not a good sign for boardgamers who had expectations about what this game could be.

Can you blame their hopes? Its not like there is a whole lot of info for the mechanical design of this game running around.
And now that the barest half hints are running around, they are not as happy as table top wargamers seem to be.

And to be honest, this does reflect poorly on Prodos. The transparency level for investing/preordering or whatever yu choose to think of KS is petty damn low for most. So now we are left with a stalling project who lacks momentum for very explicable reasons. And in this socialist exercise, we see the benefit of everyone faltering because of a lack of planning/foresight by the creators. This is not just mid project malais as Mark remarked on in the comments section.

Thanks for the reply!

 Hellfury wrote:
And to be honest, this does reflect poorly on Prodos. The transparency level for investing/preordering or whatever yu choose to think of KS is petty damn low for most. So now we are left with a stalling project who lacks momentum for very explicable reasons. And in this socialist exercise, we see the benefit of everyone faltering because of a lack of planning/foresight by the creators. This is not just mid project malais as Mark remarked on in the comments section.

Kickstarter is making less money in the middle of the campaign: Game over, man! Game over!

Your post completey invalidated my entire post. Despair. Horror. Wailing and gnashing of teeth... etc.

yawn

Bug bait has a point though, a lot of Kickstarters usually slump a bit in the middle portion of their runs. No need to go all Hudson on us yet, remember, you're not going to die until the final act.

Tired of your gak hudson, get in there and fix that Kickstart on the double. With any luck we will survive the night.

 BrookM wrote:
It's plastic you can only glue with super glue.

I use 2-part epoxy

 Kroothawk wrote:

 Hellfury wrote:
And to be honest, this does reflect poorly on Prodos. The transparency level for investing/preordering or whatever yu choose to think of KS is petty damn low for most. So now we are left with a stalling project who lacks momentum for very explicable reasons. And in this socialist exercise, we see the benefit of everyone faltering because of a lack of planning/foresight by the creators. This is not just mid project malais as Mark remarked on in the comments section.

Kickstarter is making less money in the middle of the campaign: Game over, man! Game over!

A straw man argument, just fantastic.

But yeah this KickStarter has begun to stagnate, especially with the ridiculous "pledge £20,000 for £15 more pledge stuff", which ranges from 1-5 models at the most.

So let's have a lookie at the kick-starter so far;

> Alien models look like garbage
> GW scale prices
> £20,000 for £15 of pledges
> Alien Warrior and Praetorian are action figures shaded blue in photo-shop
> No images of board, and only one line up of figures. Renders are too perfect to be the actual representations of the models quality.
> Stagnating in the middle of the kickstarter
> Queen will cost around £30,000 to get to, and at this rate we might not even get their
> Delayed updates

Hopefully, with a spot of luck we can get both the horrendous 185k stretch goal out of the way and get to 1200 backers today.

 BrookM wrote:
Bug bait has a point though, a lot of Kickstarters usually slump a bit in the middle portion of their runs. No need to go all Hudson on us yet, remember, you're not going to die until the final act.

Whatever point was made was lost somewhere deep inside the scarecrow filled with straw.

I made a fairly logical explanation from the boardgamer veiwpoint. I do not share that opinion, because I am a gamer who crosses over between the two genres frequently.

But the explanation I offered was met with a belittling comment, so a belittling comment was the response that was given. If someone wants to debate the salient points with a cogent argument as opposed to making belittling remarks, then I'll respond respectfully as well.

 Imposter101 wrote:

A straw man argument, just fantastic.

But yeah this KickStarter has begun to stagnate, especially with the ridiculous "pledge £20,000 for £15 more pledge stuff (which ranges from 1-5 models at the most)".

So let's have a lookie at the kick-starter so far;

> Alien models look like garbage
> GW scale prices
> £20,000 for £15 of pledges
> Alien Warrior and Praetorian are action figures shaded blue in photo-shop
> No images of board, and only one line up of figures. Renders are too perfect to be the actual models
> Stagnating in the middle of the kickstarter
> Queen will cost around £30,000 to get to, and at this rate we might not even get their
> Delayed updates

I like the aliens (even with the 'footgate' scandal, as so do Fox otherwise we would not have been shown them)

Sadly these are resin figures, so are NOT going to be ultra cheap, even via KS

See above

They can't show stuff until it's been approved by the licence owner, as soon as they feel sure they will achive something they get to work on it and the approval process so we should (with luck) see more before the end of the campaign

I'll give you the board, I'd like to see it, but we have been promised a gameplay video so should see it there. As to how well they progress from render to figure take a look at the figures they shown, here and in warzone, it's not perfect but pretty good

Kickstarters rarely (if ever) perform as well during the middle, especially if they've had plenty of pre-publicity like this one. The only real time to worry is multiple days of negative growth (like Mars Attacks before Mantic fixed it), this is showing solid growth

The Queen is an iconic figure and as such I'll wager that it may well have to be included in the game (this is a licence product after all) so I suspect the production costs for it are build into the funding. It will show up to boost the final days rush (no idea if it will be free or paid, but it will be available)

As to updates it's a small company, one of them is expecting a new baby about now and they're working with a licence owner that has to OK stuff (like renders) that are critical to some of the updates so while faster updates would be nice give them a break (It also lessens the chance of pledge trolling to peek at updates in advance)

Hellfury.. that's all well and good, but consider that BrookeM survived for months, and that was with no weapons and no training?

Guess which one of you bitches won't live to see the credits rolls by?

In other news, just four backers shy of 1200!

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:

 Imposter101 wrote:

A straw man argument, just fantastic.

But yeah this KickStarter has begun to stagnate, especially with the ridiculous "pledge £20,000 for £15 more pledge stuff (which ranges from 1-5 models at the most)".

So let's have a lookie at the kick-starter so far;

> Alien models look like garbage
> GW scale prices
> £20,000 for £15 of pledges
> Alien Warrior and Praetorian are action figures shaded blue in photo-shop
> No images of board, and only one line up of figures. Renders are too perfect to be the actual models
> Stagnating in the middle of the kickstarter
> Queen will cost around £30,000 to get to, and at this rate we might not even get their
> Delayed updates

I like the aliens (even with the 'footgate' scandal, as so do Fox otherwise we would not have been shown them)

Sadly these are resin figures, so are NOT going to be ultra cheap, even via KS

See above

They can't show stuff until it's been approved by the licence owner, as soon as they feel sure they will achive something they get to work on it and the approval process so we should (with luck) see more before the end of the campaign

I'll give you the board, I'd like to see it, but we have been promised a gameplay video so should see it there. As to how well they progress from render to figure take a look at the figures they shown, here and in warzone, it's not perfect but pretty good

Kickstarters rarely (if ever) perform as well during the middle, especially if they've had plenty of pre-publicity like this one. The only real time to worry is multiple days of negative growth (like Mars Attacks before Mantic fixed it), this is showing solid growth

The Queen is an iconic figure and as such I'll wager that it may well have to be included in the game (this is a licence product after all) so I suspect the production costs for it are build into the funding. It will show up to boost the final days rush (no idea if it will be free or paid, but it will be available)

As to updates it's a small company, one of them is expecting a new baby about now and they're working with a licence owner that has to OK stuff (like renders) that are critical to some of the updates so while faster updates would be nice give them a break (It also lessens the chance of pledge trolling to peek at updates in advance)

Resin isn't an incredibly expensive material, and £15 for only five figures? That's ridiculous. I'm doubtful from those poses and sculpts they will be made up from many parts ether.

They really should have had some mock-up renders in place, or at least used some of the images from the bloody films.

It's been a slow down for a while, now it's just become way more obvious. The fact they are asking so much is obviously gonna slow down the bloody process, especially when they are asking 20,000 for more add-ons.

But so little has been shown it's ridiculous, also, let's remember Mantic aren't the biggest of companies (21 employes if I'm correct?) but we're still able to produce a good amount of updates.

So yeah, overall Prodos have really yet to deliver on anything of real quality in the Aliens department, which was really the only thing I found interest in. I think this might end up being it's own chapter in the book currently being written named "Aliens: What could have been" .

They have sculpts for the Warriors and Praetorian, just are awaiting approval to show them. This is a good thing- the first glimpse of the PredAlien was horrid, the latest sculpt is absolutely ace!

Also he took a quick screenshot in the comments to show that he's still editing the video, they were removing some unapproved parts apparently, before they post it later today:



And this comment makes me VERY happy:

Prodos wrote:@Prodos
Could you come up with ideas or pledges for those of us looking at the wargame aspect?

@william, hmm there is one "looking good there,boss!", we will add 2 more after the Wargame book is "unlocked".

Since I'm here for the wargaming part, a pledge with just the hardback book and add-ons, no board game, would be most welcome! At 125 pounds or a hair higher so that it benefits from that stretch goal would be best

I can't believe any of you lot are seriously saying that Kickstarters don't generally slump in the middle...Go look at the Kicktraqs for any number of successful Kickstarters. There's always a mid-way slump, and often but not always, a flurry of last-minute pledges in the final days of the campaign.

~Tim?

See, that's what I said, but nope!

 Pacific wrote:
Hellfury.. that's all well and good, but consider that BrookeM survived for months, and that was with no weapons and no training?

See? This at least has style. Thanks Pacific. It deserves an exalt.