CptJake wrote:
Promising something is KS exclusive and then going back on that is gakky. Doing it when the KS was for a special edition of the game when a retail version was going to be made draws in customers who KNOW the game is going to be available, likely cheaper, because they want the special edition.

When you then not only re-open the pledge manager to non-KS people so they can buy it via that pledge manager, but also make that special KS only edition the retail version, that is crap, plain and simple.

I get adjusting plans as in delays and even releasing the KS concurrently with retail rather than early. Adjusting plans this way is BS though, it is a breach of integrity to me. And it isn't their first breach of integrity. And seriously, how long do you think they've known they were going to release the resins as retail version? It wasn't today.

As for being as open as their contract allows, I call BS on that too. I would be willing to bet there was nothing in the contract that prevented them from telling us they switched from a gridded method of movement and range to a non-gridded method. They kept that from us way after they had made the decision and then couldn't initially get their story straight as to why.

Read the FAQ on the main KS page, and look at how many of those FAQ items have now been 'adapted' away.

Again, I understand for some folks, as long as they eventually get their toys they will be happy, and freely admit it looks like the minis will be good (though I have very serious doubts about the rules for the game which is what I am really interested in). But again, to me, they have made decisions which result in breaking promises to us backers, and I find that a gakky thing to do.

Visceral_Mass wrote:

 CptJake wrote:
Promising something is KS exclusive and then going back on that is gakky. Doing it when the KS was for a special edition of the game when a retail version was going to be made draws in customers who KNOW the game is going to be available, likely cheaper, because they want the special edition.

When you then not only re-open the pledge manager to non-KS people so they can buy it via that pledge manager, but also make that special KS only edition the retail version, that is crap, plain and simple.

I get adjusting plans as in delays and even releasing the KS concurrently with retail rather than early. Adjusting plans this way is BS though, it is a breach of integrity to me. And it isn't their first breach of integrity. And seriously, how long do you think they've known they were going to release the resins as retail version? It wasn't today.

As for being as open as their contract allows, I call BS on that too. I would be willing to bet there was nothing in the contract that prevented them from telling us they switched from a gridded method of movement and range to a non-gridded method. They kept that from us way after they had made the decision and then couldn't initially get their story straight as to why.

Read the FAQ on the main KS page, and look at how many of those FAQ items have now been 'adapted' away.

Again, I understand for some folks, as long as they eventually get their toys they will be happy, and freely admit it looks like the minis will be good (though I have very serious doubts about the rules for the game which is what I am really interested in). But again, to me, they have made decisions which result in breaking promises to us backers, and I find that a gakky thing to do.

I'm sure there are also people like me that were waiting for the retail release hoping that it truly was filled with one piece miniatures ready to play right out of the box.

Update 72 wrote:
Sep 4 2014

This is rumour control, here are the facts...
72 comments

Like
54 likes
Hi guys,
Another update, as we want to clarify some things that have been brought up in the community here on the AvP Kickstarter.

We are almost certain that for some of you, nothing will appease you. This is totally understandable and something we have come to just accept. All we can say is that, as far as we know, we have told you everything we can.

We've also found that our words have been warped or twisted to some menacing ends. It's quite disturbing and upsetting, in all honesty. We are literally a small group of gamers, that started a project in excitement and have had to grow very quickly. It's been rough, hard and tireless work. As far as we know, we have told you everything. Don't get us wrong, of course, we understand that there is always room for misunderstanding, so if something does appear odd, or not fully truthful, we request that you PM us for more information.

Unfortunately, we cannot devote an employee's full time to checking messages and we have seen a trend of things going completely out of hand due to a comment going unchecked. However, Jarek and Rob have both been up in the small hours answering messages here and there, which just isn't effective and is actually affecting their performance. Rob had quite a dark patch during the Warzone Kickstarter and we don't want to see a repeat of that again with any of our staff.

In any case, allow me to re-iterate a few points and make them solid:

- If something is ready to be shown, we HAVE shown it to you. There is no dark or tricksy reason for not showing it, other than there is an inside reason we cannot. Whether that is because it is not ready in the manufacturing stage (i.e. it is undergoing testing) or it is in the approval stage.

- We are a small company with another product line too. Yes, you are correct that we are still shipping the 2nd Wave of the Warzone Resurrection Kickstarter. Our final 50 parcels are currently on the dispatch shelf and all that is left now are the usual missing parcels, mislaid orders to people that failed to fill their pledge manager (yes, they still occur even now!). The AvP Kickstarter has not and never will be affected by Warzone Resurrection, as the staff allocated to that task are not allocated to anything to do with this project. Releases continue to be regular and cash flow continues to be regular with our Warzone Resurrection line.

- We are a relatively small company working with a HUGE license. This involves a certain amount of precision. It is not Fox 'holding us up' or 'bending us over a barrel', quite the opposite, it is them holding our hands and making sure that everything is done correctly, as it should be. They are great at offering advice for areas of the business that we are completely new to.

As for our release estimation of late October/early November. Sure it sucks, and sure it may feel like we have lied to you. At no point have we EVER set out to lie to anyone. We do everything truthfully and as transparently as we can. Our estimated date has had to change because the editorial for the printed materials is not ready to be approved! Further to that, we then have to manufacture them, which is currently on priority order, as soon as the approval comes through. We'd like to just say that many Kickstarters are delayed and this is often the price of success.

We also understand that by going to retail at the same time as shipping, many of you feel let down. We understand this, however, please keep in mind:

- KS Backers will get the add-ons WAY before retail release (which will be next year)
- KS Backers will get extra tiles in their boxed game
- KS Backers will get the Predator Berserker - KS Backers will get the Facehuggers in their boxed set bundle - KS Backers will get the boxed game in Procast resin, not styrene plastic. - KS Backers over a certain level will get (approval pending) a David Chase model, absolutely free. - KS Backers get a better price for their purchases than anyone buying it at retail.

Here is where we are:

Resin Tunnels - Designs approved - Complications in the manufacturing stage which we estimate will be resolved in 2 weeks maximum. To fulfil the Kickstarter order will take 2-4 weeks of casting, along with other items.

Clear Predators - Approved - Complications in supplier. May have to change supplier and destroy what we currently have made, in case of any variation in quality. Waiting for shipment of new plastic.

Predator Tiles - Designs previewed on Kickstarter, fully approved. Elements with printer and will be supplied in the box.

Predator Young Bloods - Designs approved, in manufacture. 1 Design has flaw in it, so batch needs to be remade. Expected 2 weeks.

AvP Hard Plastics for General Release - In tooling stage. A well known UK plastics manufacturer is helping guide us through this process. It's been agreed that neither of us talk about the project we are working on until tooling is complete and we actually have sprues being manufactured.

So that's it. I think/hope that answers everything. If you want to know more, please PM and we will draw up an FAQ on here, rather than creating more hysteria.

Please accept a huge thank you for your patience with us and this project, Prodos Games LTD

 Alex C wrote:
Another "backer only" update...

Seriously. If they are letting people in after the funding period, why conceal all this info from us? Just make the updates public Prodos!

Prodos wrote:Update #73 - For backers only

Sep 12 2014

This is rumour control, here are the facts...
16 comments

Like
21 likes
Hi there folks!

Just a quick update as to where we are with something we can show.

So we have been busy making the Hard Plastic Version of AvP: The Hunt Begins ready for retail. Here are some comparison shots of the detail you will be getting as Kickstarter backers (the Blue Resin models) against the detail on the Hard Plastic models (Orange Resin models) which will be in the retail release. Obviously, those plastics will come on a sprue and in grey Styrene-plastic like popular model aircraft, tanks, intergalactic power-armoured marines, etc!

As you can see, we have saved a lot of the surface detail, using an incredibly advanced system, but have had to reduce (or even remove, like the skulls on his belt) the actual detailed elements such as weapons, facial detail, etc.









Okay, well that's it for this week folks, next week we will hopefully have some more exciting news.
We hope this gives you an actual, physical idea of the difference between your exclusive copies and the retail release.

Thanks!
Prodos Games LTD

Visceral_Mass wrote:
Does that most recent update confirm that the retail release will not have one piece ready to play figures in it?

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:

Visceral_Mass wrote:
Does that most recent update confirm that the retail release will not have one piece ready to play figures in it?

not necessarily,

even if they are going for polystyrene sprue'd plastic they could still be planning to assemble it at the factory rather than ask the gamer to build the stuff themselves

(although I do think it's more likely some assembly will be needed)

 Sheep wrote:
Nice one mate, that looks cool. Is that deadzone terrain?

I see its damaged, how about geting different sized drill bits and drilling holes in the floor in patches, then pouring on some plastic glue to simulated alien acid blood spatter?

 CptJake wrote:

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:

Visceral_Mass wrote:
Does that most recent update confirm that the retail release will not have one piece ready to play figures in it?

not necessarily,

even if they are going for polystyrene sprue'd plastic they could still be planning to assemble it at the factory rather than ask the gamer to build the stuff themselves

(although I do think it's more likely some assembly will be needed)

Initially they said one piece for the retail version, I suspect they've changed their minds. Multi-piece figures may hurt their sales to the board game crowd, but maybe sales to miniature gamers will make up for it.

 Paradigm wrote:

Is there a date for the retail release yet?

 Paradigm wrote:

 CptJake wrote:

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:

Visceral_Mass wrote:
Does that most recent update confirm that the retail release will not have one piece ready to play figures in it?

not necessarily,

even if they are going for polystyrene sprue'd plastic they could still be planning to assemble it at the factory rather than ask the gamer to build the stuff themselves

(although I do think it's more likely some assembly will be needed)

Initially they said one piece for the retail version, I suspect they've changed their minds. Multi-piece figures may hurt their sales to the board game crowd, but maybe sales to miniature gamers will make up for it.

As someone going for the retail release, I hope they are on sprue/unassembled in Hard Plastic. It gives more options for conversion and cross-compatibility with other ranges, and should be cheaper as well, which will make building an army for the eventual Wargame variant easier for the buyer (and for Prodos, as they can just recycle the sprues for unit boxes).

Is there a date for the retail release yet?

 Visceral_Mass wrote:

The only problem with that is there are far more boardgamers who would have been willing to buy a boardgame ready to play, then there are hobbyists wanting to buy a game with figures they can customize.

In other words, Prodos is ignoring a huge potential market if they don't make the game more accessible to boardgamers.

Update wrote:So, the Young Bloods and Terrain Tiles are on the horizon and we are getting somewhere in terms of testing our clear cast resin.