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2014/12/08 13:58:32
Subject: Alien vs Predator Miniatures Game from Prodos Games
It's important for us to say that the Kickstarter page was initially removed by mistake, but now we have decided with Fox that it might be better to stay down until the product you have pre-ordered has shipped.
This is the same for our Facebook media and images that were uploaded there. From here on, we only want to share information about the final products you will be receiving, rather than work in progress imagery or text.
The project is almost finished, we are in the final stages of approval and therefore it will be ready to ship soon.
We are not able to give an approximate date for shipping at this stage, but as soon as the final elements of the project have been approved, we will calculate printing time, assembly time and shipping time and then share the final date with you.
Thank you for your continued patience,
PRODOS Games LTD[\quote]
If the thought of something makes me giggle for longer than 15 seconds, I am to assume that I am not allowed to do it. item 87, skippys list
DC:70S+++G+++M+++B+++I++Pw40k86/f#-D+++++A++++/cWD86R+++++T(D)DM++
2014/12/08 14:01:58
Subject: Alien vs Predator Miniatures Game from Prodos Games
I actually used to use this KS as the goto example of exactly how to communicate with backers regarding the progress even if there are issues... that clearly is no longer the case.
We Munch for Macragge! FOR THE EMPRUH! Cheesesticks and Humus!
2014/12/08 15:26:19
Subject: Alien vs Predator Miniatures Game from Prodos Games
If the thought of something makes me giggle for longer than 15 seconds, I am to assume that I am not allowed to do it. item 87, skippys list
DC:70S+++G+++M+++B+++I++Pw40k86/f#-D+++++A++++/cWD86R+++++T(D)DM++
2014/12/08 15:50:53
Subject: Re:Alien vs Predator Miniatures Game from Prodos Games
I would compare Prodos to GW, but at least GW actually gives you stuff when you pay for it.
Also, by refusing to update backers on work in progress, aren't they violating Kickstarter terms and conditions? We all know they aren't letting the KS comments page go back up because the company was getting complaints, which is why they're only using channels where they can edit people's comments, but COMPLETELY shutting down production communications?
It's like they're trying their best to make their business fail...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/08 16:05:41
"The Omnissiah is my Moderati"
2014/12/08 16:05:25
Subject: Alien vs Predator Miniatures Game from Prodos Games
Nah - Mongoose are horribly behind schedule, but in the case of the Dredd KS (at least) I thin kbackers have had great value even if they were to stop delivering tomorrow
richred_uk wrote: Nah - Mongoose are horribly behind schedule, but in the case of the Dredd KS (at least) I thin kbackers have had great value even if they were to stop delivering tomorrow
I totally disagree, While Moongoose were behind schedule they kept people up to date, passing on the excuses they were getting from sculpters etc... (illness/family emergencies...) their slipping deadlines were always reviewed and explained... I don't think you can ask for more from a KS creator when things are outside their control.
In this case I think Prodos need to stop the BS and stop trying to put a positive spin on things.
Look at how GrindHouse are dealing with their Incursion supplier issues. -Panda keep giving them the brush off, so Grindhouse have informed all their backers and made clear exactly who is holding up the project. Panda now need to get things moving or people will avoid future KS projects with panda attached.
Prodos need to just say; Project delayed because x sculpts arn't finished. More Delays because clear casting materials are out of stock. External delays because fluff IP needs checked.
I would love it if they would start shipping in waves. Get all the miniatures that are ready In the post now! And once the game is printed send it with the remaining mins later.
Panic...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/08 16:24:32
But shipping the "ready" stuff now requires 3 things:
1. Effort on Prodos' part.
2. Prodos to give a feth about the people who gave them money.
3. The stuff to actually BE ready. This may be proven by a FB video, but I don't use FB, so I don't know if they're being truthful there or not.
"The Omnissiah is my Moderati"
2014/12/08 16:36:29
Subject: Alien vs Predator Miniatures Game from Prodos Games
Nah - Mongoose are horribly behind schedule, but in the case of the Dredd KS (at least) I thin kbackers have had great value even if they were to stop delivering tomorrow
Yeah unless like me you only ordered the ABC warriors in which case I have had didley squat in over 2 years and so far they have been mentioned once in updates with 1 half finished green shown.
Your last point is especially laughable and comical, because not only the 7th ed Valkyrie shown dumber things (like being able to throw the troopers without parachutes out of its hatches, no harm done) - Irbis
2014/12/08 16:44:52
Subject: Re:Alien vs Predator Miniatures Game from Prodos Games
Alex C wrote: But shipping the "ready" stuff now requires 3 things:
1. Effort on Prodos' part. Map!
2. Prodos to give a feth about the people who gave them money. Ship!
3. The stuff to actually BE ready. This may be proven by a FB video, but I don't use FB, so I don't know if they're being truthful there or not. Crew!
Heh, sorry, couldn't resist.
Alex C wrote: Also, by refusing to update backers on work in progress, aren't they violating Kickstarter terms and conditions?
You might be right about that. Perhaps this is just me sticking my head in the sand but I still chose to believe that Prodos have manoeuvred themselves into the unenviable position where the only way AvP will ever see the light of day is to do exactly what FOX says from this point onwards.. and FOX sure as hell won't give a feth about the Kickstarter T&Cs. So do they play along and maybe we will see some sort of product in the next few months? Or do they blurt out one final, accurate and unedited state of affairs which provokes a FOX SMASH! and all our money goes up in smoke?
Alex C wrote: It's like they're trying their best to make their business fail...
I think they are on the only path that will allow them to provide us with a product and stay alive as a company. Of course, there's no arguing that they shouldn't have gotten into that tight spot in the first place..
Alex C wrote: Serious question here: Is anyone going to buy anything else from Prodos in the future? Would anyone back any future KS they might do?
Assuming they are still around, yes. After all - FOX issues aside - it isn't as if I didn't go through this already with WZR. So if they can keep putting out Warzone minis I want then I will keep buying them but if Prodos do come out of this intact, I will be highly surprised if they do another Kickstarter project again.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/08 16:52:21
Alex C wrote: Serious question here: Is anyone going to buy anything else from Prodos in the future? Would anyone back any future KS they might do?
Back any Prodos KS? No. Buy there stuff? Only if it is on the shelf at my FLGS or in stock at a reputable online store if my store can't special order it. My interest though is pretty minor though as I'm only keen on getting the fempred and predalien at this point.
We Munch for Macragge! FOR THE EMPRUH! Cheesesticks and Humus!
2014/12/08 20:37:13
Subject: Alien vs Predator Miniatures Game from Prodos Games
richred_uk wrote: Nah - Mongoose are horribly behind schedule ... ... I think backers have had great value even if they were to stop delivering tomorrow
Yeah unless like me you only ordered the ABC warriors in which case I have had didley squat in over 2 years and so far they have been mentioned once in updates with 1 half finished green shown.
I sympathise with you, I had a long wait for the Dark judges. However I feel the need to call BS, there has been a bit more than just a half finished green... have you been reading the updates?
Spoiler:
Also...
Mongoose Judge Dredd KSFAQ wrote:▻ How long will I have to wait for my items after the Kickstarter ends? For items that already exist (such as most of the force box sets, Judge Dredd, Brit-Cit Judges, etc) we are already manufacturing to cover pledges. These we will dispatch as quickly as possible after the Kickstarter ends - while we do not know how many pledges there will be at the end of the Kickstarter, we will be working to get these items out to everyone within two weeks of the Kickstarter ending.
Other items are currently being designedor are in the queue to be designed; manufacturing naturally follows this, so there will be a time lag. For some items, like the Lawmaster and Manta Prowl Tank, we are already prepping manufacture, and so they should follow quickly.Others will take a little longer - however, if you have pledged for some items that are already being manufactured and others that need to go through the design process, we will not hold your miniatures up until everything is finish. We will send items out as they are ready, so you will not have to wait long to start seeing some Judge Dredd goodness!
In short waiting sucks but it's what we signed up for when we select choices not yet produced, like dark judges or ABC warriors... Mongoose stated that choices not yet designed would take a place in the que for design production. 2 years + 113 updates later that's still happening.
In contrast Prodos told us this game would be with us already... Now we have half answers and a removed KS page...
Panic...
This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2014/12/08 20:51:49
Alex C wrote: Serious question here: Is anyone going to buy anything else from Prodos in the future? Would anyone back any future KS they might do?
via crowdfunding, not a prayer, but almost certainly yes if I can stand in a store or at a show and hand over my cold hard cash while clutching the spoils in my grubby mitt. Unless this mess falls through of course, in which case they'll never see another penny no matter what they produce.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/08 20:50:12
2014/12/08 21:11:48
Subject: Alien vs Predator Miniatures Game from Prodos Games
Does anyone else get the impression that Fox has pretty much axed the project, but then gave Prodos the OK to ship out rewards to backers when they realized that stiffing the backers would create some serious negative publicity? I doubt there will ever be a retail release for this game or any Prodos AVP products. Once the KS stuff ships, I bet we never hear about Aliens or Predators from Prodos again.
Alex C wrote: Serious question here: Is anyone going to buy anything else from Prodos in the future? Would anyone back any future KS they might do?
via crowdfunding, not a prayer, but almost certainly yes if I can stand in a store or at a show and hand over my cold hard cash while clutching the spoils in my grubby mitt. Unless this mess falls through of course, in which case they'll never see another penny no matter what they produce.
Sadly, this.
I'd love to have the fortitude to say screw them, their dishonesty has cost them any future cash, but currently I like their sculpting more than I have distaste for their corporate behaviour. There's only one industry company that I will walk away from when they have stuff I want rather than give them my cash, and that's a retailer rather than a manufacturer.
But give them a loan to develop a product with? That ship has well and truly sailed - they could have a 28mm Star Wars Licence and I'd be waiting for retail.
I'd be surprised if we hear from Prodos again once this debacle is over. They've done a superb job of fething up their company by trying to play with the big boys when they're clearly not capable of doing so. Reputation is everything in business and they've done a grand job of shredding theirs.
"The Omnissiah is my Moderati"
2014/12/08 21:36:00
Subject: Alien vs Predator Miniatures Game from Prodos Games
CptJake wrote: So, the over/under on pre-Christmas delivery date?
all bets are off. The haven't got a chance. Last post dates for the USA and Western Europe are less than a week away, and even last reasonably priced post for the UK is not far behind that. That assumes they are shipping from the UK not Poland, which will likely be worse. They have to give us a week's notice of closing the PM. Even if they got everything agreed, manufactured, shipped to their warehouse and packaged, they couldn't ship it out to us in time now.
If we see anything before the back end of Q1 2015 I'd be surprised.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/08 22:17:17
2014/12/08 22:35:14
Subject: Alien vs Predator Miniatures Game from Prodos Games
BobtheInquisitor wrote: Does anyone else get the impression that Fox has pretty much axed the project, but then gave Prodos the OK to ship out rewards to backers when they realized that stiffing the backers would create some serious negative publicity? I doubt there will ever be a retail release for this game or any Prodos AVP products. Once the KS stuff ships, I bet we never hear about Aliens or Predators from Prodos again.
If they survive.
That's an interesting jump to conclusions.
I think it's more likely that Fox doesn't want what could be perceived to be half-finished pictures of WIP miniatures, blurry shots of incomplete boards with unpainted miniatures etc. (as it perceives them to be harmful to the franchise*) and instead want finished studio goods and releases. At least that is how I have read this letter, again the true meaning hidden behind half-truths.
You could be right of course though, time will tell!
*Presumably damage to the franchise wasn't a consideration for either of the AvP movies.
SeanDrake wrote: All of this would be pretty standard stuff in regards to ip rights. But it was also the main reason I did not back a project with such a big IP from such a small untested company.
Same ditto. When I read that each (?) model had to be approved by Fox, I chose not to fund the project. IIRC, The models from the Robotech RPG had to undergo approval as well, delaying the project and (?) creating more pieces to assemble than the detail justified.
One rule of thumb when backing projects is that you have to evaluate each potential party in the KS, anything from the license holder, to a third-party manufacturer, to any additional investors in the project. Too frequently, trying to find this information is difficult -- especially when the creator doesn't tell you what other parties are involved in project. Usually, if i see a license involved, I won't back the project.
EDIT: I should mention that, when you work with another party, DON'T say anything negative about them. Or, rather, Prodos blaming Fox risks, in the long run, making their relationship worse (like their relationship looks to be now) which is obviously not good for the project. It's an easy way out to say the manufacturer, a partner, or a contractor is at fault, but YOU made the choice to work with them, so you're still ultimately responsible. I find it kind of strange that, at least in the US, we think if we put the blame on one person or company and "fix" them (eg. remove them from the project), everything else will suddenly get better. I think this is a result of the focus on the individual in US society. Is this also true in other countries?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/09 05:11:39
BobtheInquisitor wrote: Does anyone else get the impression that Fox has pretty much axed the project, but then gave Prodos the OK to ship out rewards to backers when they realized that stiffing the backers would create some serious negative publicity? I doubt there will ever be a retail release for this game or any Prodos AVP products. Once the KS stuff ships, I bet we never hear about Aliens or Predators from Prodos again.
If they survive.
That's an interesting jump to conclusions.
I think it's more likely that Fox doesn't want what could be perceived to be half-finished pictures of WIP miniatures, blurry shots of incomplete boards with unpainted miniatures etc. (as it perceives them to be harmful to the franchise*) and instead want finished studio goods and releases. At least that is how I have read this letter, again the true meaning hidden behind half-truths.
You could be right of course though, time will tell!
*Presumably damage to the franchise wasn't a consideration for either of the AvP movies.
First of all, it was a jump to impressions. I have not concluded anything, but am concerned about many things.
Second, this seems a lot more serious and pervasive than the loss of WIP display rights. Sure, that could be the big problem Fox has with the project, but I tend to think "development hell" or "canceled!" when I think of how movie studios operate with projects like this.
