Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Dr. Cheesesteak wrote:

 DaveC wrote:
BoW Weekender has an interview with Rob from Prodos. AvP is covered from 31:22 - nothing new in it still waiting for 1 signature from FOX to approve the boxed game, everything bar the printed materials is done. They still hope to have it available for backers to pick up at Salute and have it on sale to public as well.

http://www.beastsofwar.com/the-weekender/weekender-hunting-prodos-avp-salute-2015-list/

qft

relax people and stop blaming Prodos. There's a lot of pointless red tape to this and it (allegedly) is hinging on just 1 Fox exec to sign off. Fox isn't even disputing anything, they (allegedly) love the product. But w/ big corporations, just getting 1 exec to sign something takes time. Hard to believe they're busy, I know...

So, who IS to blame for the piss poor comms since the KS project funding ended and for shutting down the KS page (not to mention the less than honest statements Prodos made about it)?

Prodos deserves blame. They really do.

 CptJake wrote:

 Dr. Cheesesteak wrote:

 DaveC wrote:
BoW Weekender has an interview with Rob from Prodos. AvP is covered from 31:22 - nothing new in it still waiting for 1 signature from FOX to approve the boxed game, everything bar the printed materials is done. They still hope to have it available for backers to pick up at Salute and have it on sale to public as well.

http://www.beastsofwar.com/the-weekender/weekender-hunting-prodos-avp-salute-2015-list/

qft

relax people and stop blaming Prodos. There's a lot of pointless red tape to this and it (allegedly) is hinging on just 1 Fox exec to sign off. Fox isn't even disputing anything, they (allegedly) love the product. But w/ big corporations, just getting 1 exec to sign something takes time. Hard to believe they're busy, I know...

So, who IS to blame for the piss poor comms since the KS project funding ended and for shutting down the KS page (not to mention the less than honest statements Prodos made about it)?

Prodos deserves blame. They really do.

I'm ASSUMING they aren't even allowed to give any updates besides generic "soon" or "we're working on it". Not sure if they've completely ignored KS backers or just aren't giving specific detailed updates, but isn't the video the update you want/need?

It totally was. Thanks to their confirmation that it's just one lousy fething fether at Fox who's fething everything the feth up, I feel much better that I'll see this at my local hobby store SOON! Whew. I'm so glad it's not Prodos' fault, and that everything is going as quickly as possible, with no feth-ups on their part. .

1st: A Beast Of War video is not Prodos communicating with their backers. So, no. It is not the update I want/need.

2nd: I could really care less about what they are allowed to say. That is no excuse to have mislead/lied to us backers. And they have. Several times.

3rd: They've already missed their self declared deadline to have gak in time for Salute. At this point, they need to get in front of that and update us with a realistic timeline. Something along the lines of 'Okay, once we have final approval, here are the steps we take and the projected time each takes.' If there is even the slimmest chance they can release at Salute, this type of timeline would show that.

They may only need one signature, but what happens if that one person says "no, its not right".

How much say does that one person have over the game?

 CptJake wrote:
1st: A Beast Of War video is not Prodos communicating with their backers. So, no. It is not the update I want/need.

2nd: I could really care less about what they are allowed to say. That is no excuse to have mislead/lied to us backers. And they have. Several times.

3rd: They've already missed their self declared deadline to have gak in time for Salute. At this point, they need to get in front of that and update us with a realistic timeline. Something along the lines of 'Okay, once we have final approval, here are the steps we take and the projected time each takes.' If there is even the slimmest chance they can release at Salute, this type of timeline would show that.

Well, as I said, I'm not familiar w/ exactly how or how not Prodos has handled this to the actual KS backers. What I do know is that there's probably a lot of junk going on behind the scenes and rules/regulations we are unaware of for all parties involved - Fox, Prodos, and even KS. I always prefer to give companies, especially any gaming company not called Games Workshop, the benefit of the doubt of actually caring for their product/community. It's just things happen, out of their control sometimes, that prevent them from doing or showing that.

But it's all in the past. I'm just trying to decide what race I wanna play...

 Dr. Cheesesteak wrote:

Well, as I said, I'm not familiar w/ exactly how or how not Prodos has handled this to the actual KS backers. What I do know is that there's probably a lot of junk going on behind the scenes and rules/regulations we are unaware of for all parties involved - Fox, Prodos, and even KS. I always prefer to give companies, especially any gaming company not called Games Workshop, the benefit of the doubt of actually caring for their product/community. It's just things happen, out of their control sometimes, that prevent them from doing or showing that.

But it's all in the past. I'm just trying to decide what race I wanna play...

What I know is, a lot of the Prodos shenanigans are detailed in this very thread. Since you are ignorant about them, don't tell me to 'stop blaming Prodos' when you admit you don't know what they have or have not done.

Rather think this is more Prodos going into this with Rose tinted Glasses and not realising Fox are serious anal over IP and are from what others have said control freaks.

As said before, a chat with some one revealed that they had serious problems and that Fox had a team being paid more than the project was worth just monitoring them and the project.

Personally think Prodos should have said from the start we are looking at delays as everything has to be cleared. That at least would have paved the way for excuses and facts rather than 'well' 'erm' 'maybe'... we have seen.

 Dr. Cheesesteak wrote:
I always prefer to give companies, especially any gaming company not called Games Workshop, the benefit of the doubt of actually caring for their product/community.

Oh, wait, you were serious above?



I thought you were being sarcastic.


Prodos is proven to be a bunch of lying fethers that make GW look like a bunch of saints. By far. Prodos takes corporate dishonesty to a whole new level. The only guys with worse ethics are the ones behind HQ25. feth those guys.

I found the part in the BOW interview the Prodos guy said the whole kickstarter IP dispute debacle is "kickstarter's fault" very telling. Because, you know, Prodos reading KS's creator terms and knowing from their previous kickstarter that their updates are permanent and public posted stuff that Fox later objected to months after the fact and were strong arming them to take down is somehow KS's fault.

Well, yeah. None of this can be Prodos' fault....

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
I thought you were being sarcastic.

no man, I am never sarcastic. Do you have any idea how much red tape some megacorporations force on meaningless stuff? I swear to you, even a change in toilet paper they buy for their offices probably needs to be approved by 2 or 3 people.

Wrote this last year. It still stands.

 TheSecretSquig wrote:
To PRODOS Games........

As a KS Backer (and quite a large one), please take all the time you need in the world to sort this out with Fox. Seriously! I'd rather wait another 12 months and recieve a top quality set of minatures based on the AVP world than something rushed out that F"%3's Fox off so much that they decide to pull the plug and we lose what potentially could be an amazing minature line that people will love.

Even if approved tomorrow, NOTHING would or could be posted out to all backers this close to Christmas for people to have some new toys to open. So next week, kick back, relax, and start winding down for Christmas. Seriously.

Yes I'm disapointed. But I still genuinely believe that I'll receive a top quality set of new toys based in a universe I've loved for 30 years. I'd rather wait and get something that's fully supported and endorsed by all the stakeholders, than potentially lose it. People need to stop being the 'Internet Tough Guy' and just kick back, and let PRODOS get on with what they need to do with Fox. If you are anything like me, you've a queue of other stuff waiting in boxes for some love and attention on your painting desks. I for one have blow the dust off a Perfect Grade RX-78 Gundam that's been gathering dust for over 10 years.

Christmas and New Year is approaching. Chill out, relax. We'll all get our things. Given people some breathing space to work through their problems rather than inflame them over a keyboard.

Seriously. I’d rather wait and receive a fully supported game by all parties than something be rushed out and then have the plug pulled because of an IP dispute. Aliens is my favourite background and universe and I really want this to happen. But it needs to be supported. And if that means waiting longer for FOX and PRODOS to sort themselves out, so be it. I have no doubt PRODOS will deliver (eventually). Yes, their communication is crap, but again I suspect their hands are tied by FOX. Rather than F%$*@@! FOX off, I’d rather they kept quiet to ensure the game is supported.

Kickstarters run late. Fact. Kingdom Death took over $1,000 of me, running at the latest estimate 2 years late before we’ll see anything. Poots the creator took our $$$ 3 years ago before delivery, if the current estimates are correct, and his communication has been terrible. Relic Knights by Sodapop ran 18 months late and delivered to Retail before KS backers! Raging Heroes is running 18 months late and they’ve even launched a 2nd KS before delivering their first which is late to backers. Sodapops Forgotten King, now split into 2 waves, with wave 1 5 months late and launching in retail before KS backers have received their products, and no definitive estimate on delivery of wave 2, it’s not even in production yet! The list could go on of Late delivering KS! But they all deliver, eventually.

I’ve more than enough stuff to build and paint to keep me amused until PRODOS deliver.

That's nice, but if I see your name as a backer on future projects I back, I'm dropping my pledge.
In fact, all of you, any familiar names, pledge dropped!

Having dealt with Prodos on their previous KS (Warzone), this behavior wasn't really present. They were a little slow on updates, but nothing on this scale. Delays with KS are expected and did occur on that project.

When comparing that campaign to this one, I have to ask, what is different. The answer is Fox, as Squig said. I'm sure Prodos is tied up by a NDA thicker than a bible (as I've had to sign a similar one myself on various studio/film projects), and who just wants to hear 'We're waiting on X, but we can't tell you why or what issue there is with X because NDA' four times a month in the name of 'communication'.

CptJake, at the risk of bringing up bad memories, you sound a lot like you did at the end of the Sedition Wars. I can tell you, from personal experience, Prodos is head and shoulders better than McVey was in that situation. It will get better (though I understand the frustration 100%).

Gunslinger, you also have to remember that it is human nature to (re)act differently in the face of adversity compared with when most everything goes as planned. Some would say that is a better indication of your true character than when everything is peachy. When the proverbial gak hit the fan with Fox, Prodos shut down the kickstarter under false pretenses for weeks and apparently from posts here heavily pruned their remaining avenues of communication with their customers. Their own communications went from deceptive to pointless to snippy and back for months. The root problem of all this mess may reside with Fox but the communication problems with backers are squarely at their feet and not anywhere else (like with KS as they're attempting to punt the blame there in the recent BOW interview).

 warboss wrote:
Gunslinger, you also have to remember that it is human nature to (re)act differently in the face of adversity compared with when most everything goes as planned. Some would say that is a better indication of your true character than when everything is peachy. When the proverbial gak hit the fan with Fox, Prodos shut down the kickstarter under false pretenses for weeks and apparently from posts here heavily pruned their remaining avenues of communication with their customers. Their own communications went from deceptive to pointless to snippy and back for months. The root problem of all this mess may reside with Fox but the communication problems with backers are squarely at their feet and not anywhere else (like with KS as they're attempting to punt the blame there in the recent BOW interview).

Undoubtedly, though the Warzone project was fraught with it's own perils (Casts that couldn't be molded, late delivery, company move, etc). My point was more that while it seems there is sketchy communications or deception or pared down options for communication, a lot of it could easily be explained by an NDA. Project running late? NDA may prevent you from talking about it. Using an unapproved form of communication with backers that lawyers didn't know to monitor? NDA may prevent that.

I'm not absolving Prodos of blame, but when a global conglomerate backed up by a signed NDA with significant monetary penalties says 'hey, no more posts about how you have to remove X, that makes us look bad' or 'hey, tell them everything is fine, we're going to get this back on track', you listen.

Not saying this is the case, but after going through what I did on the first KS, and knowing what I do about working with large companies and IP, I'm much more likely to give Prodos the benefit of the doubt. Not saying that anyone else should share this sentiment, just adding my knowledge.

They're currently blaming one person at fox for the holdup, kinda torpedoes your theory, no?

They're also blaming Kickstarter. Basically, every logo on the project except for the one that starts with a P and ends with a RODOS.

Well I guess we will find out for sure in a couple of weeks (less than that now) when there is meant to be a release at Salute.

I will either be posting good or bad news after I have been there

But, at the very least I will try and get some good shots of what they have on show and post them here.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Well, yeah. None of this can be Prodos' fault....

Out of interest, how much are you waiting on for this KS ?

I have (had?) budgeted to buy discounted retail, but it's not looking like that will happen.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:


Prodos is proven to be a bunch of lying fethers that make GW look like a bunch of saints.

Oh, wait, you were serious above?



I thought you were being sarcastic.

Prodos doesn't even begin to GW's level of asshattery. It would take Prodos decades of unremitting fethery to even begin to approach GW.

T

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
I have (had?) budgeted to buy discounted retail, but it's not looking like that will happen.

I don't see why there is the need to be so OTT. It's going to come at some point either sooner or later, go and watch the movies or put some Space Marines together or something

Joyboozer wrote:
They're currently blaming one person at fox for the holdup, kinda torpedoes your theory, no?

Not really, no. It makes it pretty clear to me that Fox has priorities that don't align with Prodos' or the customers. If I were to venture a guess, I'd say it's been this way the whole time, Prodos asking to release information/get things signed off/finish the project, and Fox being lackadaisical (at best) or hyper IP protective (at worst) about the whole thing.

 gunslingerpro wrote:

Joyboozer wrote:
They're currently blaming one person at fox for the holdup, kinda torpedoes your theory, no?

Not really, no. It makes it pretty clear to me that Fox has priorities that don't align with Prodos' or the customers. If I were to venture a guess, I'd say it's been this way the whole time, Prodos asking to release information/get things signed off/finish the project, and Fox being lackadaisical (at best) or hyper IP protective (at worst) about the whole thing.

Or it could be Prodos played loose with the rules they agreed to, and released gak they were not supposed to and slagged blame on the IP holders at every chance they had, and finally the IP holder tightened the reigns.

And IF the KS project was still up, there would be lots of comments from Prodos to support my theory. Not so many to support yours.

Could an update be on it's way...

Jim Vidlak Jr

42 mins

Prodos will post an update tomorrow, sorry for not getting it posted today, things are very busy behind the scenes right now.

Cheers.

Or will this be another broken promise....

Update tomorrow?



PLACE BETS!

Prodos "tomorrow" usually means a fortnight.

I have total faith we will be getting an update.


Soon.

To paraphrase the kickstarters that are behaving badly, I'm sure they'll be 98% done with the update soonTM barring a force majeure or hostile sexist punctuation. Brownie points if one person gets all the individual references.