Alien vs Predator Miniatures Game, Prodos loses license to AvP. p.266

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**Warzone Resurrection**

WFG DRMR wrote:
warboss wrote:
Warzone Resurrection wrote:
CptJake wrote:
And the passive aggressive attack against a guy who did cut free from you.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Classy quote from Prodoa in the Panzerfauste thread today -

Hi CptJake, just to straighten up the facts: Mark WAS our business partner when he was running his KS, however post KS, decided to leave the company and fulfill his KS (Devil's Run) on his own. In fact, not sure how he is going to managed with his wife casting 14k models, but that was his decision and it's his problem now.
[/quoute]

Same with this one. Current numbers (via backerkit) 10k models, for Devil's Run. We are working to a schedule and our team is doing a great job.

Not so sure Mark, I go by the numbers you have posted on your KS:

According to "my grip on numbers" is 15020 models out of which you have 129 thus far, but again I may be wrong in "my grips on numbers

Automatically Appended Next Post:

warboss wrote:
Warzone Resurrection wrote:

Anyhow, next update will have full Prodos story, with in depth, and the plan to get there,

Thanks for posting that as it is both very needed and long overdue. If you'd like to see what NOT to do in that type of an update, please check out the Palladium Robotech link below to their 19 pages of nothing "update" that was supposed to do the same. I'd love to be able to start using AVP as an example of how to reform a troubled kickstarter just like I used to use it as an example of how to properly run a post fulfillment campaign over a year ago.

Part 1 of what NOT to do

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/rrpgt/robotech-rpg-tacticstm/posts/1255963

Part 2 of what NOT to do

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/rrpgt/robotech-rpg-tacticstm/posts/1256008

19 pages (according to their count) of history lessons, a little blaming, finally telling a tiny bit of truth that their partner already made known almost a YEAR earlier, empty unfulfilled promises of a restart in communication, and no real plan to move forward but special focus on their detailed plan of what they want us to buy next sight unseen months ahead of time which would be the real reason they finally graced us with an update at that time. If issues are aired and blame assigned, do so with clear details (not vague statements) and how you'll avoid the same mistake in the future. The key is to clearly explain how you got to the pit you're in, how you're going to climb out, AND how you're going to avoid further pits like it in the future. 1 out of 3 isn't good enough as evidenced by Palladium's so called "update".

After the mistakes made in this campaign, it may not sound like it but most angry backers will appreciate the above. Think of it as ripping the band aid off quickly. It may hurt intially but it's better in the long run and less likely to make you wuss out half way.

Thanks for advice, that is not our intention, if there is any fault its pure Prodos decisions, meaning mine, no one else.

**WFG DRMR**

Thanks for the concern, but the numbers you have shared here include models for the Post-KS commercial release (that was stated in the earlier updates (but to be far we need to make that clearer for the casual observer). Take the first line we have approximately 550 main games sold, and then some HA bikes in the HA Starter set. Both these include 2 bikes..so for KS we need approx 1200. We intend to send out to our KS before we hit retail. Hence the KS completion target is approx 1200 rather than 2400. Additionally we launched Backerkit on the 5th. Now at the 15th and with 60% completion we are getting a much better understanding of numbers. Our predictions have proved mainly in the right (some things (such as the rig) have done a lot better than we thought, but others less so) our sandbagging and realignment show that the model count of 10k + an average of 50% for Post KS to be correct. But for February, our deadline, we are near on perfect timing (again as we have 3 or 4 other people we can pull in in Jan and Feb) and we won't be hitting retail until we have looked after the people that have made the game happen.

Warzone Resurrection, If you have any more concerns let me know and I will try and alleviate them for you. In the mean time good luck with wave 2 and 3 (and 4 now right?) of AvP, and helping all those other KS meet their own deadlines. If you ever get overloaded, please let me know because we can always increase capacity to support you.

**Joyboozer**

Will it be good news?

**warboss**

HudsonD wrote:
Well, deeds speak louder than words, and only time will tell if Prodos can really amend.

Still, you have to admit, that's more communication and honest "Ok, we fethed up" admission on the last page alone than PB ever did (not that much of a feat, I'll concede), and posting on Dakka takes a fair amount of courage. We'll see what happens next, but you gotta respect that.

I agree. The cynic in me would point out that this refound openness is coincidentally timed with a fundraising campaign by a senior prodos director/owner/employee/shareholder. As you said, deeds not words will determine how the community responds although the reopening of honest communication is a good start.

**Warzone Resurrection**

WFG DRMR wrote:
Thanks for the concern, but the numbers you have shared here include models for the Post-KS commercial release (that was stated in the earlier updates (but to be far we need to make that clearer for the casual observer). Take the first line we have approximately 550 main games sold, and then some HA bikes in the HA Starter set. Both these include 2 bikes..so for KS we need approx 1200. We intend to send out to our KS before we hit retail. Hence the KS completion target is approx 1200 rather than 2400. Additionally we launched Backerkit on the 5th. Now at the 15th and with 60% completion we are getting a much better understanding of numbers. Our predictions have proved mainly in the right (some things (such as the rig) have done a lot better than we thought, but others less so) our sandbagging and realignment show that the model count of 10k + an average of 50% for Post KS to be correct. But for February, our deadline, we are near on perfect timing (again as we have 3 or 4 other people we can pull in in Jan and Feb).

Warzone Resurrection, If you have any more concerns let me know and I will try and alleviate them for you. In the mean time good luck with wave 2 and 3 (and 4 now right?) of AvP, and helping all those other KS meet their own deadlines. If you ever get overloaded, please let me know because we can always increase capacity to support you.

Thanks for explanation, not much f concern, not my circus not my monkeys, however I could assume that 39 SKU, large models = large moulds and 10k models we, with our capacity would make this ,maybe in a month, that's with 8 experienced peoples out of 30 we have on manufacturing.

No worries with Capacity at Prodos, we are just fine, however I am more than happy to come back to this discussion in Feb.

**WFG DRMR**

Sure if you need our help in Feb, let us know. We will be over the KS then, and although we have other contracts lined up, we can fit you in for sure!

**Joyboozer**

For feths sake seriously, you guys finally join this thread and it's just to act like children?
AvP related news or gtfo

**WFG DRMR**

Joyboozer wrote:
For feths sake seriously, you guys finally join this thread and it's just to act like children?
AvP related news or gtfo

agree completely, sorry to be pulled into this but I had to clarify some of the misinformation, for the benefit of Devil's Run backers.

I don't want to be a distraction tool.

Good luck all, I'm sure it will all resolve in the end!

**Pacific**

Firstly, respect to Warzone Resurrection that he is coming to post here. I hope that the thread can remain civil and that the mods are keeping a close eye on things to keep the pitchforks and flaming torches kept under control.

Secondly, the reason that the pitchforks and flaming torches are present at all is simply down to this fact: That people who pledged money for the basic wave 1 KS have still not received their items! This is compounded by Prodos newsletters that now seem to focus on wave 2 and retail release news.

My suggestion: Every update, please include some kind of wave 1 shipping update (including numbers shipped, for EU, US & rest of world) as the first news item in that update. So the people who are still waiting for their wave 1 pledges know that they have not been forgotten about and that there is some progress.

If Prodos must continue to selling to retail while KS backers still wait for wave 1, at least give those people as much consideration as possible.

**Warzone Resurrection**

Hi there, just quick one, as I just have seen a post on facebook that I have been insulting backers here.

It was not my intention to insult anyone, so please accept my apology if my post was read that way. I'll go through the posts and make amendments if needed. Thanks and I am really sorry for occurred situation.

**Bluehammer**

Wow, the last few pages have certainly been busy.

Thank you 'Prodos' for finally providing some information. I am aware of you're opinion of Dakka, but this site has been the only place to give constant updates and collate all of you're disjointed communications (for which I, and I suspect many non-KS backers, am grateful for).

I appreciate you're frankness and hope you manage to steer your company through it's current troubles. However that does not change the fact that over the last 12+ months, Prodos has acted in a very unprofessional manner towards the supporters that made the product possible in the first place, and words, no matter how honest, mean little at this point. Until I or people I know recieve the goods they paid for, I will continue to view any communications as spin until proven otherwise.

I sincerely hope you are able to resolve this chapter of AvP quickly, to both calm us grumpy backers and to allow you're company to move forward and rebuild it's reputation.

**Panic**

Yeah,
It certainly is fishy that a Prodos account starts giving lip service after a years silence...

Why could that be???
Surely it's not because Robs other KS is live?

Rob just send us our stuff.
I don't promise you that recieving my goods will make me stop telling people it's a bad idea to back you.
But it can't hurt your chances.

Panic...

**Fraggle**

Prodos - Ive forwarded my email to exchange retail for KS to your services email (in addition to previously sending to Rob and Michal) so eagerly anticipate your response!

**Alpharius**

Warzone Resurrection wrote:
Hi there, just quick one, as I just have seen a post on facebook that I have been insulting backers here.

It was not my intention to insult anyone, so please accept my apology if my post was read that way. I'll go through the posts and make amendments if needed. Thanks and I am really sorry for occurred situation.

To be honest, it is hard to read 'cesspit of vitriol and hate' in a positive way...

**Warzone Resurrection**

Panic wrote:
Yeah,
It certainly is fishy that a Prodos account starts giving lip service after a years silence...

Why could that be???
Surely it's not because Robs other KS is live?

Rob just send us our stuff.
I don't promise you that recieving my goods will make me stop telling people it's a bad idea to back you.
But it can't hurt your chances.

Panic...

Mr. Panic, how you do expect us to send you your rewards if you have not updated your name and surname in you AvP Pledge manager?????? We cannot send to "nicknames". Thanks

*snip*

Reds8n.

**Morikun**

Prodos,

If I really respect the fact that you finally come to Dakka dakka in the view to give some explanations, I still have some questions/advice.

- You sent me retail version instead of KS version (I would be lucky whereas lot of other backers who must wait for their box).

Unfortunately for me, as you didn't precized anything about shipping costs, I prefered open it and start painting it (you certainly noticed the result)... I didn't want to lose more money and wait more for my box.

I mailed Michal and Jarek for the pred tiles... But except "I keep it in mind" from Michal, no information since many weeks...

Now, add-ons seems to be available... For retailers. And about us ?

Other question : you know I work with Monsieur H and CCCP on the french translation. If you give the link to the french rules, you never answered us about the french cards. Do you allow us to publish it ? We asked you for that many many times... And all that we got were a big silence. Why ?

I'm really REALLY waiting for your answer since you write here.

Serviteur,

Morikun

**CptJake**

Alpharius wrote:
Warzone Resurrection wrote:
Hi there, just quick one, as I just have seen a post on facebook that I have been insulting backers here.

It was not my intention to insult anyone, so please accept my apology if my post was read that way. I'll go through the posts and make amendments if needed. Thanks and I am really sorry for occurred situation.

To be honest, it is hard to read 'cesspit of vitriol and hate' in a positive way...

To be honest, it is hard to read any of this new comms from Prodos as anything other than a reaction to Rob's new KS project catching heat.

**Warzone Resurrection**

Morikun wrote:
Prodos,

If I really respect the fact that you finally come to Dakka dakka in the view to give some explanations, I still have some questions/advice.

- You sent me retail version instead of KS version (I would be lucky whereas lot of other backers who must wait for their box).

Unfortunately for me, as you didn't precized anything about shipping costs, I prefered open it and start painting it (you certainly noticed the result)... I didn't want to lose more money and wait more for my box.

I mailed Michal and Jarek for the pred tiles... But except "I keep it in mind" from Michal, no information since many weeks...

Now, add-ons seems to be available... For retailers. And about us ?

Other question : you know I work with Monsieur H and CCCP on the french translation. If you give the link to the french rules, you never answered us about the french cards. Do you allow us to publish it ? We asked you for that many many times... And all that we got were a big silence. Why ?

I'm really REALLY waiting for your answer since you write here.

Serviteur,

Morikun

So as for French, we are not manufacturing it as have not reached minimum French orders number to cover an expensive low count printing materials. However as for cards, it's good call we will make them available online.
That's not a problem, we are covering shipping cost (paypal payment for it). If you don't want the printed components, just send them back to us.

As for release of the materials, under contract we can only do it.

**Rick_1138**

Just popping my head above the parapet.

been ages since i was in

Good to see a Prodoes Person in attendance.

As many said, its a poor situation, but i am in the wait and see camp, I am about £165 in the hole, but i expect to see stuff at some point.

Only thing i would ask for, is a slight clearing of the fog and a ROUGH idea on where we stand with regards to posting of stuff.

My pledge manager just saiys 'awaiting' so no idea what that's about.

Even if you came out and said, 1st wave KS backer stuff will be out by April 2016, okay its ages away but at least you are honest.

I just want my powerloader and clear pred females tbh

**Warzone Resurrection**

CptJake wrote:
Alpharius wrote:
Warzone Resurrection wrote:
Hi there, just quick one, as I just have seen a post on facebook that I have been insulting backers here.

It was not my intention to insult anyone, so please accept my apology if my post was read that way. I'll go through the posts and make amendments if needed. Thanks and I am really sorry for occurred situation.

To be honest, it is hard to read 'cesspit of vitriol and hate' in a positive way...

To be honest, it is hard to read any of this new comms from Prodos as anything other than a reaction to Rob's new KS project catching heat.

Actually, as we are making services for them, they have a right to ask what is happening. Rob was asking about Panic... we have been checking if we have shipped his product or not, and find out that his PM is not updated... This is the case to many, many backers... we still have approx 50 from USA that we within real name and surname and another approx. 200 nicknames worldwide. Once we clear out real accounts we will be moving to nickname-ones and notify every person individual, ether by mail or phone.

**Morikun**

So as for French, we are not manufacturing it as have not reached minimum French orders number to cover an expensive low count printing materials. However as for cards, it's good call we will make them available online.
That's not a problem, we are covering shipping cost (paypal payment for it). If you don't want the printed components, just send them back to us.

As for release of the materials, under contract we can only do it.

Thank you very much for your quick answer.

Nevertheless, I don't understand : Ok, you haven't reached the minimum french orders... But if I send you the english printed components (rulebook + cards)... You will cover the shipping cost by paypal... But what will you give me instead if you can't print in french ? Excuse me I really don't understand what you mean.

Serviteur,

Morikun

**Nostromodamus**

Prodos,

I backed after the KS funding period and via spreadsheet rather than pledge manager, do you still have my order information?

Just wanted to be sure

Thanks!

**angelofvengeance**

Ahh the ol' Pledge Manager unlocked thing... had to lock mine in 3 times before I got anywhere.

**Panic**

Yeah,

Warzone Resurrection wrote:
Mr. Panic, how you do expect us to send you your rewards if you have not updated your name and surname in you AvP Pledge manager?????? We cannot send to "nicknames". Thanks

*snip*

Reds8n.

lol so you're seriously saying the only reason you haven't mailed me any of my reward is that the pledge manager didn't have my name?
all you had to do was ask!

I've emailed you privately quite a few time using my full name.

But thanks for opening the pledge manager.
Progress!!

Pledge manager updated! Any chance it gets processed?

Panic... <---GARY KEENAN

Update:
Rob says he's called the Local Police for defamation of character!
Will call them in a few minutes to confirm and defend myself.

**Warzone Resurrection**

Alex C wrote:
Prodos,

I backed after the KS funding period and via spreadsheet rather than pledge manager, do you still have my order information?

Just wanted to be sure

Thanks!

Alex can you please email me on service@prodos.co.uk asap, thanks.

**biggusdoggus**

Panic, be the man and walk away. I think you've made your point over in Panzerfaust, and harassing Rob really isn't going to end well no matter how you look at it.

Let's see how Jarek's promised update pans out eh? I know we're all angry about what's happened, but we should still be grown up enough to give him the opportunity to follow up on what he has said over the past 3 pages with some clarification of the situation, and then in turn see if he can live up to whatever promises he then makes.

**Warzone Resurrection**

Panic wrote:
Yeah,
Warzone Resurrection wrote:
Mr. Panic, how you do expect us to send you your rewards if you have not updated your name and surname in you AvP Pledge manager?????? We cannot send to "nicknames". Thanks

*snip*

Reds8n.

lol so you're seriously saying the only reason you haven't mailed me any of my reward is that the pledge manager didn't have my name?
all you had to do was ask!

I've emailed you privately quite a few time using my full name.

But thanks for opening the pledge manager.
Progress!!

Pledge manager updated! Any chance it gets processed?

Panic... <---GARY KEENAN

Update:
Rob says he's called the Local Police for defamation of character!
Will call them in a few minutes to confirm and defend myself.

Hi there, right so, there is a reason why we have been informing backers in almost every update that there in a need to have PM updated. Our PM won't let us to print it out unless we have all boxes ticked.
Also, as I stated in the post above, we are going from top to bottom of backers leaving, the ones that have not updated their KS PMs - I think this is approach taken by all KS creators?

**Bluehammer**

While a Prodos face is present, what is happening with the Predator tiles?

I paid for them to be an add-on, but as I understand it they will now be given free to backers that want them. Does that mean I'll get the money I paid for the tiles refunded (and still get the tiles) or will I receive credit to be used on another item of the same value (a powerloader for example)?

**Warzone Resurrection**

Bluehammer wrote:
While a Prodos face is present, what is happening with the Predator tiles?

I paid for them to be an add-on, but as I understand it they will now be given free to backers that want them. Does that mean I'll get the money I paid for the tiles refunded (and still get the tiles) or will I receive credit to be used on another item of the same value (a powerloader for example)?

Coming to us from printers, pictures to follow tomorrow.

EDIT: actually I have some samples on my desk here they are: https://gyazo.com/7c6b73164c56df611ae3f2aa227512c2

**Morikun**

Prodos,

Thank you to read my new question asked to you 8 posts before and answer me please.

Serviteur,

Morikun

EDIT : The pred tiles look very beautiful !!