Alien vs Predator Miniatures Game, Prodos loses license to AvP. p.266

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**CptJake**

Prodos won't meet it because the latest update very strongly implies if you don't order more they are not sending your stuff any time soon.

**gunslingerpro**

Piousservant wrote:
gunslingerpro wrote:
Piousservant wrote:

Wow it's almost funny to see him complaining about how terrible Fox have treated them, considering how he's treated KS backers. Pot, kettle much....?

Uh, doesn't one beget the other?

No, of course not. Fox being a pain in the ass (assuming that Jarek is being honest, about something) really doesn't beget Prodos/Jarek lying repeatedly to backers and generally being utterly unprofessional in their conduct. At least, in my book anyway.

Let me just give you a scenario.

A company (lets call them Brodos) sends production samples to a movie studio. Studio loves them, says they look great, can't wait to see the finished project, should have the okay in a month. Brodos begins producing items with an expected ship date in two months (give themselves a bit of wiggle room). A month goes by, and the studio still hasn't approved everything, but states that studio review-bots 1 and 2 saw no issues, so review-bot 3 shouldn't either. No worries, all is still happy.

Then review-bot 3 doesn't even bother to get his job done until well after the deadline. Brodos has to change their delivery date. Review-bot 3 decides that TMSTUDIOS2015LLCBBQWTF should be on all models, resin and plastic, despite the models having already been produced, packaged, and ready to go. Brodos is forced, by contract, to not only SHRED all product already produced and to change the ship dates (possibly several times), but they now have to take down the Kickstarter because every photo/model/page doesn't say TMSTUDIOS2015LLCBBQWTF. Brodos also, by contract, can't reveal any of this information, because they will be seen in 'bad standing' in their licensing agreement.

The owner of Brodos is frustrated, and lashes out at fans and backers when asked to provide an update for the 56th time/being told he is lying because he has to keep changing dates/delivery options/model details (all at the behest of the studio and/or production realities and money). Is this the right move? No, of course not. Is it understandable, surely. Does that make it acceptable? No, not in the least bit.

Does any of this make the wait for product easier or should it quell the backer anger? Doubtful, and it shouldn't. Just try to keep some perspective on the situation.

**Visceral_Mass**

gunslingerpro wrote:
Piousservant wrote:
gunslingerpro wrote:
Piousservant wrote:

Wow it's almost funny to see him complaining about how terrible Fox have treated them, considering how he's treated KS backers. Pot, kettle much....?

Uh, doesn't one beget the other?

No, of course not. Fox being a pain in the ass (assuming that Jarek is being honest, about something) really doesn't beget Prodos/Jarek lying repeatedly to backers and generally being utterly unprofessional in their conduct. At least, in my book anyway.

Let me just give you a scenario.

A company (lets call them Brodos) sends production samples to a movie studio. Studio loves them, says they look great, can't wait to see the finished project, should have the okay in a month. Brodos begins producing items with an expected ship date in two months (give themselves a bit of wiggle room). A month goes by, and the studio still hasn't approved everything, but states that studio review-bots 1 and 2 saw no issues, so review-bot 3 shouldn't either. No worries, all is still happy.

Then review-bot 3 doesn't even bother to get his job done until well after the deadline. Brodos has to change their delivery date. Review-bot 3 decides that TMSTUDIOS2015LLCBBQWTF should be on all models, resin and plastic, despite the models having already been produced, packaged, and ready to go. Brodos is forced, by contract, to not only SHRED all product already produced and to change the ship dates (possibly several times), but they now have to take down the Kickstarter because every photo/model/page doesn't say TMSTUDIOS2015LLCBBQWTF. Brodos also, by contract, can't reveal any of this information, because they will be seen in 'bad standing' in their licensing agreement.

The owner of Brodos is frustrated, and lashes out at fans and backers when asked to provide an update for the 56th time/being told he is lying because he has to keep changing dates/delivery options/model details (all at the behest of the studio and/or production realities and money). Is this the right move? No, of course not. Is it understandable, surely. Does that make it acceptable? No, not in the least bit.

Does any of this make the wait for product easier or should it quell the backer anger? Doubtful, and it shouldn't. Just try to keep some perspective on the situation.

In that situation isn't it a poor business decision to proceed with production without having the final approvals?

Additionally, isn't it a poor business decision to run a crowdfunding campaign without having any products completed or approvals received?

Regardless of Fox's (possible) role in the actual delays this product has been mismanaged from the very beginning.

It almost seems like Prodos got the license from Fox and then were like "Let's get some money from crowdfunding and then make a game!", when they should have been like "Let's make a game and then crowdfund it!"

**Joyboozer**

gunslingerpro wrote:
Piousservant wrote:
gunslingerpro wrote:
Piousservant wrote:

Wow it's almost funny to see him complaining about how terrible Fox have treated them, considering how he's treated KS backers. Pot, kettle much....?

Uh, doesn't one beget the other?

No, of course not. Fox being a pain in the ass (assuming that Jarek is being honest, about something) really doesn't beget Prodos/Jarek lying repeatedly to backers and generally being utterly unprofessional in their conduct. At least, in my book anyway.

Let me just give you a scenario.

A company (lets call them Brodos) sends production samples to a movie studio. Studio loves them, says they look great, can't wait to see the finished project, should have the okay in a month. Brodos begins producing items with an expected ship date in two months (give themselves a bit of wiggle room). A month goes by, and the studio still hasn't approved everything, but states that studio review-bots 1 and 2 saw no issues, so review-bot 3 shouldn't either. No worries, all is still happy.

Then review-bot 3 doesn't even bother to get his job done until well after the deadline. Brodos has to change their delivery date. Review-bot 3 decides that TMSTUDIOS2015LLCBBQWTF should be on all models, resin and plastic, despite the models having already been produced, packaged, and ready to go. Brodos is forced, by contract, to not only SHRED all product already produced and to change the ship dates (possibly several times), but they now have to take down the Kickstarter because every photo/model/page doesn't say TMSTUDIOS2015LLCBBQWTF. Brodos also, by contract, can't reveal any of this information, because they will be seen in 'bad standing' in their licensing agreement.

The owner of Brodos is frustrated, and lashes out at fans and backers when asked to provide an update for the 56th time/being told he is lying because he has to keep changing dates/delivery options/model details (all at the behest of the studio and/or production realities and money). Is this the right move? No, of course not. Is it understandable, surely. Does that make it acceptable? No, not in the least bit.

Does any of this make the wait for product easier or should it quell the backer anger? Doubtful, and it shouldn't. Just try to keep some perspective on the situation.

All of that I could understand, it's the "hey guys were totally sending your stuff out everything's fine, whoops we didn't send stuff out and there were actually a crap tonne of problems, but now we really did send your stuff, whoops no we didn't' ah well feth off" I'm tired of.

**gunslingerpro**

Visceral_Mass wrote:

In that situation isn't it a poor business decision to proceed with production without having the final approvals?

Additionally, isn't it a poor business decision to run a crowdfunding campaign without having any products completed or approvals received?

Regardless of Fox's (possible) role in the actual delays this product has been mismanaged from the very beginning.

It almost seems like Prodos got the license from Fox and then were like "Let's get some money from crowdfunding and then make a game!", when they should have been like "Let's make a game and then crowdfund it!"

Proceeding without approval is a risk, surely. But poor business, I don't agree. If you consider how long most licensing agreements last, if you were to wait for all specific approvals (nevermind the fact that there are levels, such as pre-approval, primary approval, production approval etc), you would have sunk a lot of money into a property that you may only be able to sell for a year or two.

Your second point sounds like a glorified pre-order, but there were some models done before the kickstarter was made live. And again, levels of approval. Not every company has the money to totally create a game before it goes live on kickstarter.

**CptJake**

gunslingerpro wrote:

The owner of Brodos is frustrated, and lashes out at fans and backers when asked to provide an update for the 56th time/being told he is lying because he has to keep changing dates/delivery options/model details (all at the behest of the studio and/or production realities and money). Is this the right move? No, of course not. Is it understandable, surely. Does that make it acceptable? No, not in the least bit.

Lets be clear. Jarek and other Prodos members have straight up lied to us. About things they did not have to lie about. Fox did not make them do so. Backers did not make them do so.

**CURNOW**

Joyboozer wrote:
gunslingerpro wrote:
Piousservant wrote:
gunslingerpro wrote:
Piousservant wrote:

Wow it's almost funny to see him complaining about how terrible Fox have treated them, considering how he's treated KS backers. Pot, kettle much....?

Uh, doesn't one beget the other?

No, of course not. Fox being a pain in the ass (assuming that Jarek is being honest, about something) really doesn't beget Prodos/Jarek lying repeatedly to backers and generally being utterly unprofessional in their conduct. At least, in my book anyway.

Let me just give you a scenario.

A company (lets call them Brodos) sends production samples to a movie studio. Studio loves them, says they look great, can't wait to see the finished project, should have the okay in a month. Brodos begins producing items with an expected ship date in two months (give themselves a bit of wiggle room). A month goes by, and the studio still hasn't approved everything, but states that studio review-bots 1 and 2 saw no issues, so review-bot 3 shouldn't either. No worries, all is still happy.

Then review-bot 3 doesn't even bother to get his job done until well after the deadline. Brodos has to change their delivery date. Review-bot 3 decides that TMSTUDIOS2015LLCBBQWTF should be on all models, resin and plastic, despite the models having already been produced, packaged, and ready to go. Brodos is forced, by contract, to not only SHRED all product already produced and to change the ship dates (possibly several times), but they now have to take down the Kickstarter because every photo/model/page doesn't say TMSTUDIOS2015LLCBBQWTF. Brodos also, by contract, can't reveal any of this information, because they will be seen in 'bad standing' in their licensing agreement.

The owner of Brodos is frustrated, and lashes out at fans and backers when asked to provide an update for the 56th time/being told he is lying because he has to keep changing dates/delivery options/model details (all at the behest of the studio and/or production realities and money). Is this the right move? No, of course not. Is it understandable, surely. Does that make it acceptable? No, not in the least bit.

Does any of this make the wait for product easier or should it quell the backer anger? Doubtful, and it shouldn't. Just try to keep some perspective on the situation.

All of that I could understand, it's the "hey guys were totally sending your stuff out everything's fine, whoops we didn't send stuff out and there were actually a crap tonne of problems, but now we really did send your stuff, whoops no we didn't' ah well feth off" I'm tired of.

Occams razor .........im going with jareck telling porky pies to cover his bum

**gunslingerpro**

CURNOW wrote:

Occams razor .........im going with jareck telling porky pies to cover his bum

Occams razor is great, but goes out the window when half the information is sealed behind contract and licensing restriction muzzles.

**HoverBoy**

gunslingerpro wrote:
CURNOW wrote:

Occams razor .........im going with jareck telling porky pies to cover his bum

Occams razor is great, but goes out the window when half the information is sealed behind contract and licensing restriction muzzles.

True, but maybe one should refraim from shouting when muzzled, cuz you only end up with spit on your face.

**Casbyness**

Quick question (asking for a reminder) - are the alien eggs a KS exclusive? I ask because if so that seems like a really daft decision, since eggs are one thing that people would really buy lots of in order to recreate hive scenes.

**Nostromodamus**

Casbyness wrote:
Quick question (asking for a reminder) - are the alien eggs a KS exclusive? I ask because if so that seems like a really daft decision, since eggs are one thing that people would really buy lots of in order to recreate hive scenes.

No. The only exclusive was the Berserker Predator.

**Ruglud**

Prodos Games Ltd says:

###Transmission starts###
Good morning all,
First off all, we, at Prodos, would like to say thank you for support over the last week. We have been working around the clock and have pulled family members and friends in to meet the deadline i set last week as part of the expedited shipping offer.
We are delighted to say that over the course of the week(between 9th and 13th of May)., a total of 215 backers participated in the offer. From that we have shipped 155 parcels out. Orders placed on Thursday and Friday are currently sitting in our warehouse floor to be shipped out Mondy and Tuesday morning so we are still on schedule to get these shipped out within the 5 day timeframe we set ourselves.
Additionally 41 parcels where sent out to backers that have not taken the part in the deal. This means that we had a total of 196 parcels leave our offices over the last week with another 60 being shipped out between Monday and Tuesday.
Each of you should receive a tracking number, one from us, followed by another one from the courier company in your country. USA/Canadian and Australian parcels are shipped by Poczta Polska and then transferred to your local courier company as per the previous update.
Shipping cost explained.
Based on feedback received ,we would like to explain the issue with the shipping costs a bit. AvP kickstarter ran in 2013 and at that time KS had no means to update shipping costs therefore we had to put in a flat rate. Basedon our calculations, at the time, for we estimated that the game would weigh in at a not inconsiderable, 2.3 kg in weight. The 10GBP we estimated wasn’t enough to cover that on it’s own but at the time we accepted that the cost of shipping would need to be subsidised from profits to a small degree. However as you know, the game ended up weighting in at a monstrous 4kg in weight (you who have carried these boxes any distance can attest to the weight) due to quality concerns in relation to the thinner box and components that time.
As you can see on attached screenshot, to ship a parcel to USA for example, using the cheapest track solution, costs 280 PLN which equates to roughly 71 USD, and this doubles for Australia.I know some of you won’t care in relation to this but we’re being as transparent as possible and taking on board your criticism and feedback.
With this in mind, we’re aware that some people have expressed annoyance at the THB page and we’re now looking to sort this out. We have decided to close down the current THB facebook page as of on the 29th May, and create 2 others. One for Kickstarter backers only,which will be used for KS updates and to give us feedback, and a second page for the community as a whole to discuss the game, rules, scenarios etc.
See here a link to the KS backers group : https://www.facebook.com/groups/1002238266528833/ This group is closed to the public, so if you’re looking to access it, i would ask that you use your real first and surname on FB for verification.
Separately, here is the link to new group, where you can share anything else AvP related. https://www.facebook.com/groups/1027030660685651/
Finally, for those of you who have not yet taken advantage of the expedited shipping to get your KS pledge up to and including the wave 2 releases, this offer remains open. To you who have purchased from our online store, we look forward to seeing these miniatures on the facebook pages soon.
####Transmission ends.#####

**Bolognesus**

I placed my order on Sunday the 8th. Order confirmed Mon 9. No tracking code received whatsoever.

IOW, Jarek is telling a porky again?

**Ruglud**

Prodos Games Ltd says:

Hi there, a quick announcement to our German backers.

Prodos Games would like to announce, that our Kickstarter backers will be able to collect their AvP pledges at RPC Cologne 28th-29th May, 2016 at Ulisses Spiele GmbH stand.

If you will attend RPC convention and would like to pick up your AvP stuff, please email Prodos at

rpc@prodosgames.com

with a subject "RPC AvP pledge" until May 16th.
Please make sure your email will contain your KS pledge number or your email address, which was used while backing AvP stuff. Don't forget to have your IDs to confirm your identity!

Our Crusaders will be more than happy to hand over available AvP add-ons, base game and other KS items.

Ulisses Spiele GmbH will also have in sales at RCP a limited number of Alternative Alien Warriors (shows only models). Thanks.

Must be something wrong with Prodos - two messages / updates in two days !

**Casbyness**

Bolognesus wrote:
I placed my order on Sunday the 8th. Order confirmed Mon 9. No tracking code received whatsoever.

IOW, Jarek is telling a porky again?

As someone who has ordered from Prodos several times, just butting in here to say that each time I've been sent something they give me a link to a Polish courier service after the item is dispatched, but the link never actually works until much later when the parcel has either arrived or is just about to. For some reason, that's when I get a further message stating that the order has been "dispatched" and a proper quoted tracking number that can be searched for appears in order to see the parcel's journey details.

No idea why they operate like this, but just mentioning it since lack of a real tracking number isn't anything to worry about.

**CURNOW**

No message from prodos but just received my tracking number from the post company seems to work .

Of course I've no idea if that tracking is for the extra box of aliens or my pledge .

**JohnCS**

Correction to original post - never-mind.

I didn't notice my box sets are listed in a second 'first shipment area' so maybe I'll actually receive them after placing an order.

**Bolognesus**

From mine:

Shipment 1:

Free items:
A Royal Guard x1 1, KS P Berserker 1, AVP Game (Box) 2, Facehuggers x8 2

So seems you won't be getting yours for a while longer.

(Then again, chances are neither am I; despite excuses being made for Prodos once again posting one lie after the other, still no tracking here either.)

**warboss**

Why do I get the feeling that the real purpose of the closed is Facebook group is to hide legitimate ongoing criticism from the public while simultaneously having a reason to delete "off topic" ks complaints about the same products from the general public page?

**Bolognesus**

So, no surprise here: they've mostly confirmed they didn't actually ship to me anywhere near when, according to that last KS message, they should have.

Of course, even this 'shipping notification' still doesn't contain the promised tracking number.

**CURNOW**

Quick question. Does anyone know how the warzone humans like the blood berrets scale up to the colonial marines ?

**Dark Severance**

CURNOW wrote:
Quick question. Does anyone know how the warzone humans like the blood berrets scale up to the colonial marines ?

Not sure if it would help since I don't have the Blood Berrets, but I do have Mishima Crimson Devils, Brotherhood Valkyries and Troopers, and Cybertronic Armoured Chasseurs. I could get comparisons with any of those if you wanted.

**CURNOW**

Yeah that would be great .just want to see if they are any use for head /arm swops etc

**Ktulhut**

For anyone wondering about the confusing shipping notices, I ordered some additional Aliens last year and asked to have my remaining KS items (at least what was approved at the time) shipped with them. The notice I received only mentioned the purchased items, but I did get everything when the parcel arrived.

**CthulhuPunk_Mike**

Update - I took advantage of the offer to buy an item online & get the rest of your stuff posted. I did this on the first day of the announcement. I'm UK based and I got my stuff today.

It is all there, but crucially, they also included the Predalien that was missing from my Wave 1. So if you are missing anything be sure to mention in the comments section when you order something online. And for some reason I got yet another set of Predator ship tiles!

So basically, they made good on that promise at least and I'm up to date with all approved stuff. We all know the critisisms, so begrudgingly I do have to say that (as always) the miniatures themselves are lovely.

FYI I got my original shipping notice that listed everything I was getting very quickly. Then in the last 5/6 days I got almost daily tracking notices. Although the URL shows the English option they were always in Polish and I still have no clue what they were saying as they all seemed identical, nothing to show progress or anything. Just so people know what to expect!

**CURNOW**

Same boat as you mate ordered on the day they said about it and its just come through the door 10mins ago all of the stuff thats been released so far is there in plastic bags and the extra xenos i ordered to cover postage were in retail packaging.

The updates on the polish tracking looking the same were because they just said arived and scanned and left and scanned on the right hand column was the locations.

**CthulhuPunk_Mike**

Nice to know - I couldn't get the google translate option working. Glad you got everything ok too!

Can people who get theirs keep posting please, it's handy to understand progress.

**DaveC**

Placed an order last Thursday it has been updated today to shipped (no tracking yet though) including all the KS stuff available so far.

**angelofvengeance**

Glad to hear more of you lot are getting your stuff

**timd**

Also placed an order so I could get my wave 2 stuff and got a list of stuff that I will be getting in a separate email with the subject: "Alien vs Predator Kickstarter Survey". This is in addition to two other emails about the stuff I just ordered.

T