Alien vs Predator Miniatures Game, Prodos loses license to AvP. p.266

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**CptJake**

Dark Severance wrote:
Since Archon is based in Poland, we hired a company CritOnHitGames from United States, run by Mihajlo Vlaskovic, to provide PR services of being face of our company on KS, and signed NDA with it until LOAD project is complete. That NDA is now closed.
Unless you are stating that Archon is also in charge of CritOnHitGames, there was no NDA with Prodos or Archon. It was with the US PR company, which if you look at the comments is why this campaign at least PR wise has been handled decently.

From the KS comments:

Since things have escalated more than we expected, we made a decision to lift NDA today. In next update, you will see who is really behind LOAD. Thank you!

So yeah, they did imply the NDA was the reason they couldn't come clean.

**biggusdoggus**

Their NDA, which they lifted, to tell us who they are.

That's not an NDA, that's just underhand bloodymindedness.

**Dark Severance**

I did make a mistake, which I apologize for. Archon is not just the manufacturing company (although it has been around)... I missed the first part of the update before the image, where they do state that the "creators of LOAD is Archon".

The rules and creators who weren't Archon/LOAD was who I was following initially from the game creation. They are referring to them as external contractors, so I'm not sure if they just bought the rules or if they were actually hired to create it specifically for LOAD/Archon.

**JohnHwangDD**

Thanks for the warning, avoiding LOAD for sure.

**thothkins**

I'll not be touching that one with a barge pole. They've clearly not learned a thing form this debacle.

**warboss**

thothkins wrote:
I'll not be touching that one with a barge pole. They've clearly not learned a thing form this debacle.

Not true. They learned to try and hide their involvement instead of making good on their previous broken promises and cleaning up their own mess.

**CptJake**

warboss wrote:
thothkins wrote:
I'll not be touching that one with a barge pole. They've clearly not learned a thing form this debacle.

Not true. They learned to try and hide their involvement instead of making good on their previous broken promises and cleaning up their own mess.

You mean Load Board Game from Chicago, IL isn't really the company running this KS?!?! I'm shocked!

**Sheep**

Just got my shipping notification!

Any other Australian or New Zealanders get theirs?

**Nostromodamus**

Any news on the multi-pose Marines and when we can expect this all to be wrapped up?

**Joyboozer**

Sheep wrote:
Just got my shipping notification!

Any other Australian or New Zealanders get theirs?

Nope.

**CptJake**

Sheep wrote:
Just got my shipping notification!

Any other Australian or New Zealanders get theirs?

Had you ordered more stuff from their web store?

**TheSecretSquig**

Hopefully I can get some confirmation or clarity from fellow Dakka's. Sometime ago (could be as far back as 1.5yrs), I read somewhere on Dakka, that the Predator Ship Tiles would ot be sold at retail, despite them being produced. Later in the thread, it was mentioned that as an 'apology' for the lateness of the KS, all backers would receive a set of these tiles.

So convinced I was of this, I removed the tiles from my pledge and put the $$$$ onto some other model. Does anyone hear remember this, or can find the update or even quote from when this was written. I think it was something that someone from PRODOS posted here in the comments in this thread, but I can't find anything.

Any help on this???

**CptJake**

I do remember that. I had ordered the tiles and they were one of the items I did receive (and very much NOT worth what they cost). I don't remember where they made that statement though.

**biggusdoggus**

TheSecretSquig wrote:
Hopefully I can get some confirmation or clarity from fellow Dakka's. Sometime ago (could be as far back as 1.5yrs), I read somewhere on Dakka, that the Predator Ship Tiles would ot be sold at retail, despite them being produced. Later in the thread, it was mentioned that as an 'apology' for the lateness of the KS, all backers would receive a set of these tiles.

So convinced I was of this, I removed the tiles from my pledge and put the $$$$ onto some other model. Does anyone hear remember this, or can find the update or even quote from when this was written. I think it was something that someone from PRODOS posted here in the comments in this thread, but I can't find anything.

Any help on this???

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/5850/556916.page#8139185

I suspect that promise has gone the same way as the commitment to send every backer who collects their base games from a con, an extra model as thanks.

**CptJake**

I never switched my pred tiles for something else so should have gotten two sets. I only got one set.

I suspect it was another empty promise.

**biggusdoggus**

New post from Jarek this morning .....

Jarek Ewertowski
28 mins
Hi there:
Prodos is well aware that the information we are about to share with you, in normal circumstances of business management would not normally be shared publicly however we have been put into a position where we must clarify some issues with the backers who believed in us so strongly that they put their hard earned cash on the line for a product we committed and still commit to deliver.
You might remember in the December update, we provided a screenshot of the funding that we had set aside for shipping. You may also remember our October update about Prodos seeing the licensor, and discussions being held about the future direction of the game for the next 2 years. We also spoke about potential releases of new models, rules etc. The plan and subsequent deal was agreed and secured with no additional payment required.
In March 2016 we were informed that we had reached “minimum guaranteed” scope and timeframe of our contract with licensor and that they were now looking to renegotiate the contract going forward. For us this raised serious alarm bells as we were in the process of shipping Wave 2 to many backers, with some Wave 2 and Wave 3 items still outstanding for approval.
To allow us to ensure that Kickstarter deliveries will be met, as there are still outstanding items for approval, and to support the future of this product, we had no choice but to sign a new agreement at significant cost. In short, had we not agreed with the terms of the new contract, the KickStarter would have died there and then with no further approvals being given. For us at Prodos, this was not an option. We have always promised that we would see this KS through to the end and this, despite the stress and financial strain, is what we will do.
Looking at silver linings however, it does mean that Prodos will be supporting this game until June 2018 at a minimum!
The cost of this contract, combined with the increased cost of postage previously mentioned, this has again depleted our funds and has again derailed our shipping targets. As a consequence of this we took action and offered expedited shipping as seen in the last updates, so that you could purchase a model and have it shipped with your approved Wave 2 products.
Shipping continues, and is funded by Prodos Games profits from sales, and the services it provides, and the additional purchases made by backers over the last number of weeks.
I am again assuring you that I and the rest of the Prodos team are doing everything possible to have your pledges reach your door step as fast as possible. Currently we have a number of wave 3 items with licensor awaiting approval including the ,much anticipated, dropship however we don’t have a timeframe on the approval of these items as of yet.
The previous Wave 2 shipping offer still stands and includes a 5% discount. Thank you to you who have availed of this offer to date.
I hope most of you have seen the efforts we have put into getting this product to you. To those still awaiting, all I can do is apologise (again) for the delays.
Our store link: store.prodosgames.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Controversy about LOAD the miniatures game.
As there is a few questions about Archon Kickstarters, we would like to make the following statement.
Archon is a company set up by Prodos in 2014 to provide manufacturing services to Prodos only.
Archon LTD and Prodos Games LTD are separate LTD entities and therefore have separate accounts, structures and teams in place.
Prodos Games is an investor in Archon's structure.
Archon, between 2014 and 2016 has grown is strength from mono-customer manufacturer of miniatures to well know and established entity, providing services to more than 20 customers from industry.
It also helped via Prodos connections to provide miniatures for 12 other Kickstarters as well as well know names as:
Ninja Division, Mantic Games, Warlords Gates of Antares, TitanForge, MicroArt Studio, White Dragon Miniatures, Riverhorse, Steamforged Games, Freebooter Minatures, Infamy Miniatures, Age of Tyrants, Rycerze pustkowi, Shadowrun, Demigods Evolution, Norsgard, Miniature 13, Perditions Mouth, Wargamer, Hysterical Games, Awaken Realms, Troll Trader, Armoured Syndicate, Fregged Empire, Collision, hint The Game, Modiphious, Dungeon Saga, Apollo, Broken Contract, Purgatory, Smog Con, Nova open…
Prodos uses about 10% of Archon's manufacturing capabilities to provide Prodos products to the market.{/quote]

**Morikun**

In March 2016 we were informed that we had reached “minimum guaranteed” scope and timeframe of our contract with licensor and that they were now looking to renegotiate the contract going forward. For us this raised serious alarm bells as we were in the process of shipping Wave 2 to many backers, with some Wave 2 and Wave 3 items still outstanding for approval.
To allow us to ensure that Kickstarter deliveries will be met, as there are still outstanding items for approval, and to support the future of this product, we had no choice but to sign a new agreement at significant cost. In short, had we not agreed with the terms of the new contract, the KickStarter would have died there and then with no further approvals being given. For us at Prodos, this was not an option. We have always promised that we would see this KS through to the end and this, despite the stress and financial strain, is what we will do.

Maybe it wasn't a so fantastic idea to post on the personnal FB page that he can't wait until the end of the contract to insult " a certain "F" company"...

Serviteur,

Morikun

**mrondeau**

I would take their "We are sacrificing everything for you!!! Everything!!!!!!!" spiel more seriously if they offered refunds.

They have no problem altering the deal, as long as it's in their favour.
It's obvious the game is dead, and I already pledged for more than I would need just to paint.
In fact, I already paid an order of magnitude more than I would want to for those minis.
Yet, somehow, I don't get to alter the deal in my favour.
I can get what I paid for... if I pay more for things I don't want.

There's a very simple solution for Prodos. If they don't want to lose money on shipping due to their poor planning, they can refund.
They are already selling at retail anyway, so, unlike me, they would not be stuck with pile of useless miniatures.

**Stormonu**

They probably had no choice on renewing the contract because if they had not, they would have been stuck with a bunch of stock (owed to backers) that they could not then unload.

The shipping situation sounds like it just gives them more excuses to drag their feet and wheedle more money out of their customers. Expect a retail price hike on the boxed game/minis shortly - which you will have to buy at least one of to expidite your shipment (i.e., get what your owed).

**biggusdoggus**

Stormonu wrote:
They probably had no choice on renewing the contract because if they had not, they would have been stuck with a bunch of stock (owed to backers) that they could not then unload.

The shipping situation sounds like it just gives them more excuses to drag their feet and wheedle more money out of their customers. Expect a retail price hike on the boxed game/minis shortly - which you will have to buy at least one of to expidite your shipment (i.e., get what your owed).

They should have been more than aware of the impending licence renegotiation, it will have been documented in their original licence.

and the price hikes have already started. Both facehuggers and young bloods - the last items to be put up I think, are £5 more than they were in KS. I don't have a problem with that myself, costs change, so why shouldn't prices rise? although if it happens across the board it will make rather a mockery of the 5% off and order a mini to get the rest of your pledge "deal".

**warboss**

Yeah, I don't see how the contract renewal date would be a shock since it's not much of a contract if it doesn't have one. The shock might be how long they've taken to make half the stuff they promised. I'm sure they didn't count on the massive string of failures (both their own and Fox's) that led to them making in essence no money for more than half the duration of the contract. The contract might have been a great deal assuming they got the stuff out on time and on budget with retail sales funnelling money back into the company... but now? Maybe not so much. Either way, they didn't renew the contract out of love for KS backers but rather probably out of lasagna layers of deals with retailers and distributors as well as sunk costs on new releases ready to bring in some needed cash immediately (to retailers obviously... not to backers). Backers are just a convienent "see how awesome we are and how much we love you!" PR excuse.

If backers were really the main priority and AVP was really such a drain on them financially with the higher new terms, they would have instead taken that likely 5-6 figure upfront license fee and shipped EVERYTHING owed to backers that they've already shipped to retail refunding the portions not made and then try to renegotiate with Fox.

**DaveC**

Mine was delivered this morning by UPS so 2 weeks from (additional) order to delivery. Won't be able to check it until tonight.

**Sheep**

Captjake: no I hadn't ordered anything else, I wasn't giving them anymore money.

**CptJake**

Sheep wrote:
Captjake: no I hadn't ordered anything else, I wasn't giving them anymore money.

**Ktulhut**

Sheep wrote:
Just got my shipping notification!

Any other Australian or New Zealanders get theirs?

Got my wave 1 in September last year, got (most of) wave 2 in November by purchasing an item from the store and asking if my other stuff could be sent with it.

**MrHackenslash**

Sheep wrote:
Just got my shipping notification!

Any other Australian or New Zealanders get theirs?

My Kickstarter order arrived yesterday (Sydney).

Some notes:
* I did order the crusher from the webstore this month so that they would ship the rest of my items.
* I received an "order shipped" email on the 18th but never got a tracking number.
* The delivery had 2 game box sized cardboard boxes taped together (bottom box had the game box only, top box had the crusher + kickstarter extras).
* The predator ship tiles were on top of the game box along with a letter from prodos with a 25% off webstore voucher.
* Everything aside from the crusher was not in retail packaging.
* The marine sergent was included but while he had a token there was no game card. Not sure if this is intended or not.

Items I received were:
* Alien queen
* Predalien
* Royal guard
* Alien eggs
* Alien dice
* face huggers
* Berzerker predator
* Female predator
* Power loader
* Sentry guns
* Marine Sergent. <- Amazing model. cast in a single piece in a way i cant figure out how they managed it.

At this stage I think that is everything I originally ordered. I need to somehow find a copy of my original pledge to check through it all.

**Sheep**

Awesome news mate. You could go to your pledge manager to see what you ordered?

**CURNOW**

When i got mine there was only models and cards no invoice or voucher or pred tiles

**CptJake**

CURNOW wrote:
When i got mine there was only models and cards no invoice or voucher or pred tiles

Had you ordered the Pred Tiles?

I'm wondering if even though they were promised to all if they maybe only sent to folks who ordered them...

**CURNOW**

No didn't order them