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I was looking forward to lizardmen as I’m of the same opinion of the rotters rules. I’d rather just play them as chaos team and put rusty spikes on the dudes to represent horns.

 Binabik15 wrote:
...


PS: now do a Lizardmen team with the bulk of the Carnosaur hero pleeeease.

Yesss, Lizardmen pleassssszze!

(I want to replace my converted WHFB Lizzies team https://boardgamegeek.com/blogcategory/3805 .)

Only slight bummer with the nurgle guys is I don't see any maggots. Dunno how the sculptors could forget the maggots!

I plan on slapping some of the maggot piles from the plaguebearer kit on the bases.

I'm also fascinated by the nurgle pitch, which is double sided...the one side looks like a putrid garden...who knows what the reverse will be. Maybe the garden erupted in pus and everyones sliding around the pitch with pus on their feet giving negative modifiers to GFI rolls.

I wonder when we'll get the Nurgle team....my guess would be October, as we just the Dark Elves in July. If that's the case, it doesn't leave the BB team much time to get us the aforementioned four teams a year. Do you all think we will get a fourth team this year? Or that we will have another short year?

If we are getting another team, what are you guys thinking? My thoughts for the Nurgle slot were way off, I was assuming they'd want to make teams with minis that have no parallels in the GW line (things like Werewolves, Mummies, Bull Centaurs), and that don't have any current race representation (Undead, Lizardmen), but that is clearly not the logic the BB team is following. I would say they will release another Death Zone team, but with the intro of Spike Magazine I think they can really do whatever they want.

Obviously they should do Lizardmen, Wood Elves and Undead or Norsca next. Obviously.

So we'll see more Union elves and a pure Ogre team and Halflings next Seriously, who knows with FW.

Nurgle was always second, the 'it's one you won't guess before them' turned out to be the Dark Elves. I'd expect undead to be next, I was told some previews were done at the same time the shadespire minis

Binabik15 wrote:Obviously they should do Lizardmen, Wood Elves and Undead or Norsca next. Obviously.

So we'll see more Union elves and a pure Ogre team and Halflings next Seriously, who knows with FW.

Hahaha, right?

Thebiggesthat wrote:Nurgle was always second, the 'it's one you won't guess before them' turned out to be the Dark Elves. I'd expect undead to be next, I was told some previews were done at the same time the shadespire minis

Huh, so they Undead could be in the pipeline? That would be rather nice.

Had there really been anything that left field released?

I know two Elf teams, but then there's four of them to get through - and then the Goblins but they complete lots of other teams so it makes sense.

Lizard men would be good next though

Vorian wrote:
Had there really been anything that left field released?

I know two Elf teams, but then there's four of them to get through - and then the Goblins but they complete lots of other teams so it makes sense.

Lizard men would be good next though

Chaos was very left field....they weren't in Death Zone or hinted at anywhere to my knowledge. I think everyone was expecting Nurgle and then Chaos got released, followed by Dark Elves, and people thought Nurgle had been put on indefinite hold or something. Nurgle had concept art at the announcement of the game after all, so it's a bit odd to seem them a full two years after the game's rerelease. In my mind I thought GW had put Nurgle on back burner because it is probably the easiest team to convert from existing plastics of the Blood Bowl teams. I thought they might want to focus a bit more on factions that have miniatures that have no parallels or really even conversion potential in their plastic ranges (Undead, Necromantic, Khemri, Chaos Dwarfs).

To be fair I think the Spike Magazine release is what tosses the "release the Death Zone factions first" thing into question. Spike gives GW the opportunity to print a team's new rules in a magazine alongside whatever team box they decide to release.

I really hope we don't get the two Elf teams any time soon. There are already two Elf teams for Elf players to use, and none of the Undead factions have a team, and neither do Lizardmen, which is also a very unique faction.

They may have been unexpected - but its not like Chaos are a small team. They are one of the major ones, like Dark Elves are. It's not like they are Ogres or Halflings.

Undead and Lizardmen do seem the obvious next steps though. Fingers crossed.

Vorian wrote:
They may have been unexpected - but its not like Chaos are a small team. They are one of the major ones, like Dark Elves are. It's not like they are Ogres or Halflings.

Undead and Lizardmen do seem the obvious next steps though. Fingers crossed.

Yeah, that's a good point. Personally Chaos was a pleasant surprise to me. It certainly wasn't like Elf Union where I was a bit confused that they were the first Elves to get a release, as opposed to one of the original Elf teams.

I hate playing against khemri teams but hopefully they make them, it’d be nice to see the tomb king aesthetic again.

I really hope the lizards are next. If I wanted to just wish list, I. Want a lizardmen vs. Amazons starter set

 Sabotage! wrote:

Vorian wrote:
They may have been unexpected - but its not like Chaos are a small team. They are one of the major ones, like Dark Elves are. It's not like they are Ogres or Halflings.

Undead and Lizardmen do seem the obvious next steps though. Fingers crossed.

Yeah, that's a good point. Personally Chaos was a pleasant surprise to me. It certainly wasn't like Elf Union where I was a bit confused that they were the first Elves to get a release, as opposed to one of the original Elf teams.

Hold up:

"Union" Elves WERE the first elf team. Back in 1st/2nd edition.

Huh, no idea on that, though I didn't know what BB was back in 1st. I figured since the teams were loosely based on WHF races that the other Elf teams would come first. That all said, I still have never seen anyone play an Elf Union team, even with the new plastics. They are certainly not what most would consider a "major" team in BB like the other Elves are.

 Sabotage! wrote:
Huh, no idea on that, though I didn't know what BB was back in 1st. I figured since the teams were loosely based on WHF races that the other Elf teams would come first. That all said, I still have never seen anyone play an Elf Union team, even with the new plastics. They are certainly not what most would consider a "major" team in BB like the other Elves are.

Generational, I guess. I came into GW through Blood Bowl 2nd edition (a childhood birthday present) while my older brother had 1st edition a few years before that. There were no distinctions between various elven teams in the way that there are now. The only concession was the Dark Elf team, but considering Warhammer Fantasy was, I believe, only about hitting it's stride at that point, even having such a divide at such an early point in the development of the Warhammer background, such as it... well, was, is almost entirely down to the already established fantasy tropes Warhammer was borne out of, such as Dungeons and Dragons. I wasn't an avid follower of Warhammer Fantasy so I don't know how well-established the various subfactions actually were back in 1988, like High Elves, Wood Elves, etc, but I do remember that most of the generic (or "Pro"/"Union" as they're now known) elf sculpts for Blood Bowl were based primarily on Wood Elf wardancer sculpts that I recognised from the various catalogues at the time.

Other than that, as far as Blood Bowl went, Elves were Elves. They had mohican haircuts, wore studded leather leggings, sported hockey masks on the pitch and spent far too much time admiring themselves in the mirror than is healthy.

What with me being a bit of an old-schooler, the focus on the subfactions in 3rd edition onwards is one of the things that turned me off it, since they brought the aesthetics of Blood Bowl more in-line with the Fantasy range as it was then. So rather than a more distinct, somewhat sports-oriented look, the High Elf team just looked like High Elf spearmen with the weapons clipped off. The Chaos Dwarves looked like the Chaos Dwarf axemen regiment with the weapons snipped off. Double yawn. And so on. And for most of 3rd editions lifespan, the pro-elf team basically didn't exist, which never sat right with me.

Yeah, I didn't get into the hobby in general until the late 1990s, so I didn't see any of the first couple editions. I don't believe GW products were really that popular in the U.S. at the time and I was pretty young.

I could see how the figures looking more in line with the Fantasy factions would be a bit frustrating, as opposed to a more distinctive sports influenced look. I do like the GW has made an effort to make the current range look more like Sports players than warriors. Personally I think the Elf subfactions have a lot more flavor than the Pro elves, and honestly four Elf teams released in Death Zone was way too many.

That’s why I like the new Chaos teams. They looks like sports players instead of generic chaos warriors who forgot their weapons at home.

Plus there’s plenty of open space to model on tentacles and whatnot when the inevitable happens…

 Sabotage! wrote:
Personally I think the Elf subfactions have a lot more flavor than the Pro elves, and honestly four Elf teams released in Death Zone was way too many.

Why is 4 Elf tams in Death Zone too many? There are 24 teams. No Elf team is ever going to be taken out of Blood Bowl. Even if GW excludes some, players are going to keep playing them.

As for flavour, I like the pro/union elves for the fact that they are different from the established Warhammer Fantasy factions. For a while in the 1990s you couldn't move without having to punch a High Elf directly in their smug face, and trying to shape those factions to fit into Blood Bowl in a fun way always seemed a bit of a stretch.

There's something kind of brutal about the non-faction elves with their hockey masks and 1980s punk aesthetic and that sets them apart for me.

Baxx wrote:

 Sabotage! wrote:
Personally I think the Elf subfactions have a lot more flavor than the Pro elves, and honestly four Elf teams released in Death Zone was way too many.

Why is 4 Elf tams in Death Zone too many? There are 24 teams. No Elf team is ever going to be taken out of Blood Bowl. Even if GW excludes some, players are going to keep playing them.

Yeah, have 4 Elf teams in 24 is absolutely fine. But when you rerelease a game and decide to chose 9 teams in your initial offerings, 4 Elf teams is way too many. Include all the Elf Teams in the Teams of Legend absolutely, no one shouldn't be able to play their current teams. But when you have nine teams (4 Elves, Humans, Orcs, Dwarves, Skaven, and Nurgle) 4 Elf Teams is way too many. Ideally wouldn't you want to include teams from all over the play spectrum, so new players, who may only have access to Death Zone teams (as that's mostly what's getting plastic releases) have some options in play. While the Elves all play differently, they are all Ag 4 teams, and the difference in play of Dark Elf team to a High Elf team is nothing compared to that of say an Undead, Lizardmen, Chaos Dwarves, Norse, Amazon, etc.

I'm not saying all the Elf teams shouldn't get plastic releases, because they totally should, but if we end up with High Elves and Wood Elves as the next releases (the only two Death Zone teams not announced or released) that is dramatically less diverse than if we ended up with Lizardmen and Necromantic let's say. Not to mention many teams have miniatures that GW doesn't really offer conversion potential for (Mummies? Werewolves? Tomb Guardians? Ulfwerenar?), where the Woodies and High Elves can be pretty easily converted from existing plastics.

 Sabotage! wrote:

Baxx wrote:

 Sabotage! wrote:
Personally I think the Elf subfactions have a lot more flavor than the Pro elves, and honestly four Elf teams released in Death Zone was way too many.

Why is 4 Elf tams in Death Zone too many? There are 24 teams. No Elf team is ever going to be taken out of Blood Bowl. Even if GW excludes some, players are going to keep playing them.

Yeah, have 4 Elf teams in 24 is absolutely fine. But when you rerelease a game and decide to chose 9 teams in your initial offerings, 4 Elf teams is way too many. Include all the Elf Teams in the Teams of Legend absolutely, no one shouldn't be able to play their current teams. But when you have nine teams (4 Elves, Humans, Orcs, Dwarves, Skaven, and Nurgle) 4 Elf Teams is way too many. Ideally wouldn't you want to include teams from all over the play spectrum, so new players, who may only have access to Death Zone teams (as that's mostly what's getting plastic releases) have some options in play. While the Elves all play differently, they are all Ag 4 teams, and the difference in play of Dark Elf team to a High Elf team is nothing compared to that of say an Undead, Lizardmen, Chaos Dwarves, Norse, Amazon, etc.

I'm not saying all the Elf teams shouldn't get plastic releases, because they totally should, but if we end up with High Elves and Wood Elves as the next releases (the only two Death Zone teams not announced or released) that is dramatically less diverse than if we ended up with Lizardmen and Necromantic let's say. Not to mention many teams have miniatures that GW doesn't really offer conversion potential for (Mummies? Werewolves? Tomb Guardians? Ulfwerenar?), where the Woodies and High Elves can be pretty easily converted from existing plastics.

Well, there was a strong suggestion way back in the mists of the distant past (2016-2017) that the Union Elf kit was going to be a base set for which Forgeworld upgrade packs would be released in order to represent the different varieties of Elf teams, freeing up the plastic schedule. Not sure whether this is an idea that is being carried forward now.

Anyway, regardless of that, the intention behind the BB releases has always been to release kits of one kind or another (plastic or otherwise) for every prior team that is currently on either the Death Zone rosters or the Teams of Legend PDF (as they get moved into a Death Zone/Spike! magazine release of their own). So it's really just a matter of patience. The four elf teams have never before been considered to be "too many", and they still won't be, really, unless you're using a metric that is going to shift as the release schedule rolls on.

For a start, I imagine the headache of trying to figure out how to package some teams in plastic is what's delaying some specific teams. Undead are the most obvious example of this, and I can't wait for the whining that will accompany the simple fact that it isn't going to be possible for GW to comfortably fit all of the possible options into that sprue without at least one or more faction boosters from Forgeworld.

There's no indication so far that the High or Wood Elves are the next releases. Even if they are, it's fine. The other teams are coming. The release schedule is what it is.

 Sabotage! wrote:

Baxx wrote:

 Sabotage! wrote:
Personally I think the Elf subfactions have a lot more flavor than the Pro elves, and honestly four Elf teams released in Death Zone was way too many.

Why is 4 Elf tams in Death Zone too many? There are 24 teams. No Elf team is ever going to be taken out of Blood Bowl. Even if GW excludes some, players are going to keep playing them.

Yeah, have 4 Elf teams in 24 is absolutely fine. But when you rerelease a game and decide to chose 9 teams in your initial offerings, 4 Elf teams is way too many. Include all the Elf Teams in the Teams of Legend absolutely, no one shouldn't be able to play their current teams. But when you have nine teams (4 Elves, Humans, Orcs, Dwarves, Skaven, and Nurgle) 4 Elf Teams is way too many. Ideally wouldn't you want to include teams from all over the play spectrum, so new players, who may only have access to Death Zone teams (as that's mostly what's getting plastic releases) have some options in play. While the Elves all play differently, they are all Ag 4 teams, and the difference in play of Dark Elf team to a High Elf team is nothing compared to that of say an Undead, Lizardmen, Chaos Dwarves, Norse, Amazon, etc.

I'm not saying all the Elf teams shouldn't get plastic releases, because they totally should, but if we end up with High Elves and Wood Elves as the next releases (the only two Death Zone teams not announced or released) that is dramatically less diverse than if we ended up with Lizardmen and Necromantic let's say. Not to mention many teams have miniatures that GW doesn't really offer conversion potential for (Mummies? Werewolves? Tomb Guardians? Ulfwerenar?), where the Woodies and High Elves can be pretty easily converted from existing plastics.

There was never just 9 teams in the initial offerings. It was all the 24 teams always. They just didn't bother printing it in the first book. Just like the star players. You don't need to wait to the next book to play with Mighty Zug or whatever. We still got the complete list. The least important/interesting parts of BB2016 are the team rosters, unless they actually changed something. Most teams haven't changed, so it wouldn't make any difference whether they included it in the books or not.

New players need to get the old pdf to play the game properly!!! Do not play a limited game and have a limited experience just because granny didn't print some pages to sell, we already got that for free.

ekwatts wrote:
Well, there was a strong suggestion way back in the mists of the distant past (2016-2017) that the Union Elf kit was going to be a base set for which Forgeworld upgrade packs would be released in order to represent the different varieties of Elf teams, freeing up the plastic schedule. Not sure whether this is an idea that is being carried forward now.

Anyway, regardless of that, the intention behind the BB releases has always been to release kits of one kind or another (plastic or otherwise) for every prior team that is currently on either the Death Zone rosters or the Teams of Legend PDF (as they get moved into a Death Zone/Spike! magazine release of their own). So it's really just a matter of patience. The four elf teams have never before been considered to be "too many", and they still won't be, really, unless you're using a metric that is going to shift as the release schedule rolls on.

For a start, I imagine the headache of trying to figure out how to package some teams in plastic is what's delaying some specific teams. Undead are the most obvious example of this, and I can't wait for the whining that will accompany the simple fact that it isn't going to be possible for GW to comfortably fit all of the possible options into that sprue without at least one or more faction boosters from Forgeworld.

There's no indication so far that the High or Wood Elves are the next releases. Even if they are, it's fine. The other teams are coming. The release schedule is what it is.

I didn't say or imply that four Elf teams is too many, simply having a variety of teams available in Death Zone would have been preferable to having the book contain more than half Elf Teams.

I don't really see the headache with Undead. Two zombies, one skeleton, one ghoul, one wight, and one mummy per sprue. Want to play more than two ghouls or no skeletons? Buy a second box or do some converting. This really isn't any different than Humans, Orcs, Skaven, and Dark Elves with their positionals. Necromantic you can do three zombies,one wight, one wolf, and one flesh golem per sprue and if you want Ghouls, you can buy the Undead kit (which at 35 will be about the same price as the new USD team booster packs anyways), which will round out your zombies for a 16 player roster also. That was off the top of my head, so I think the "headache" of packaging most teams is exaggerated.

Baxx wrote:

 Sabotage! wrote:

Baxx wrote:

 Sabotage! wrote:
Personally I think the Elf subfactions have a lot more flavor than the Pro elves, and honestly four Elf teams released in Death Zone was way too many.

Why is 4 Elf tams in Death Zone too many? There are 24 teams. No Elf team is ever going to be taken out of Blood Bowl. Even if GW excludes some, players are going to keep playing them.

Yeah, have 4 Elf teams in 24 is absolutely fine. But when you rerelease a game and decide to chose 9 teams in your initial offerings, 4 Elf teams is way too many. Include all the Elf Teams in the Teams of Legend absolutely, no one shouldn't be able to play their current teams. But when you have nine teams (4 Elves, Humans, Orcs, Dwarves, Skaven, and Nurgle) 4 Elf Teams is way too many. Ideally wouldn't you want to include teams from all over the play spectrum, so new players, who may only have access to Death Zone teams (as that's mostly what's getting plastic releases) have some options in play. While the Elves all play differently, they are all Ag 4 teams, and the difference in play of Dark Elf team to a High Elf team is nothing compared to that of say an Undead, Lizardmen, Chaos Dwarves, Norse, Amazon, etc.

I'm not saying all the Elf teams shouldn't get plastic releases, because they totally should, but if we end up with High Elves and Wood Elves as the next releases (the only two Death Zone teams not announced or released) that is dramatically less diverse than if we ended up with Lizardmen and Necromantic let's say. Not to mention many teams have miniatures that GW doesn't really offer conversion potential for (Mummies? Werewolves? Tomb Guardians? Ulfwerenar?), where the Woodies and High Elves can be pretty easily converted from existing plastics.

There was never just 9 teams in the initial offerings. It was all the 24 teams always. They just didn't bother printing it in the first book. Just like the star players. You don't need to wait to the next book to play with Mighty Zug or whatever. We still got the complete list. The least important/interesting parts of BB2016 are the team rosters, unless they actually changed something. Most teams haven't changed, so it wouldn't make any difference whether they included it in the books or not.

New players need to get the old pdf to play the game properly!!! Do not play a limited game and have a limited experience just because granny didn't print some pages to sell, we already got that for free.

Sure, ToL came out at release, which is cool for players like myself, who have played BB for a while and has a variety of (3rd party) teams that I can play with. But new first experience with the game will be directly through GW, and I think a good selling point to your game is "Look at the variety of different teams you can play." That and anyone who's local place of game play is a local GW store, that doesn't allow third party miniatures. Those are the people who would really want miniatures for things GW has no parallel in their lines.

Anyways, I think we've beaten this discussion to death.

Union elves with high elf helmets and brighter colours would do the trick, no?

Is there anyone else who would really love them to go back and do a Spike Magazine for each of the teams that came out before it started? If they keep up the "4 teams a year" schedule (so one every 3 months) they could release an issue of Spike every month and a half, switching back and forth between a new team and an old team.

They have 8 teams with minis but no magazine (Humans, Orcs, Skaven, Dwarfs, Goblins, Elf Union, Chaos Renegades and Underworld Denizens) so they could catch up with all of them in 2 years, then go back to only 4 issues a year.

Interesting to note that we get the Nurgle team for preorder next week, which is a really quick turnaround from preview to release. Maybe the team will get in a 4th team this year after all.

I do think it would be cool to see Spike Magazines for the teams already released also Zetan, though I've heard the BB team is only three writers and four sculptors, so they may have their hands full.

Games Workshop is not very committed to consistency. Last year we got some very cool rules for team specific balls. But they only made them for some teams (goblins, orcs, dwarves, chaos, skaven and one generic). Maybe Spike magazine follows the same pattern, only a random selection of teams will be lucky enough to get it, until they start something new and different again. Same with (in)famous coaching staff. Some teams got them, some teams don't.

The special balls are tied to the plastic kit release. Dark Elves and Elf Union also got special ball rules.