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Sarouan wrote:
The same argument than making your own meals instead of buying it already made.

No, boyo, the argument here is that a restaurant meal should not cost more than a stove. Even if you personally don't know how to cook.

Sarouan wrote:
The funniest part of people saying "wow not at this price" is that once the limited box will be no longer available, buying the separate parts that will be sold later will be actually -more- expensive.

But honestly, I'm amazed people actually -keep- getting surprised (or fake being surprised) at the price when they get revealed. It's GW. You get all these reactions everytime. Not even talking about the same people writing the same things over and over.

At one point, one should remember that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting things to change magically by themselves. That's never going to happen.

If you feel it's too expensive for you, fine. Understandable. If you say it all the time and "faking" it like it's new /last time for you -this time-...well, don't be surprised if you are the one being mocked here.

And let's be honest : what price would you have thought this box would have been sold by GW, knowing the current situation we are in Europe right now with all energy / transport prices up everywhere ? 90 euros ?

The arguments of prices rising up so constantly and drastically, being justified by increased costs is - frankly - absolute bollocks and a pure excuse for corporate greed, as a certain miniatures company very recently showed to us this very year when they told us just how little the actual costs have risen over the years, and because of that, they thus found no reason to actually raise the prices.

Wargames Atlantic wrote:Globally the price of fuel has skyrocketed, which in this business means there has been an increase to the cost of raw materials (namely the plastic - which is up over 60% per pound!) Because of this, the production cost of a typical box has now increased by roughly $0.12.

https://wargamesatlantic.com/blogs/news/wargames-atlantic-pricing-announcement-2022

Them shareholders aint gonna dividend themselves, you know.

On topic, I am guessing it’s going to be at least a $50 core book plus a $40-$50 compendium to transition your existing dooders to the new game. This is based on the kill team approach of $110 total for two book deal.

Compendium cover (not sure of the source on this)

 DaveC wrote:
Compendium cover (not sure of the source on this)

If real, that looks a lot thinner than I expected. If it's softcover again like the other Warcry books, I hope it means it stays in the 35-37,50 € RRP range.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

No, boyo, the argument here is that a restaurant meal should not cost more than a stove.

Except of course you can buy a simple stove for less than the price of a medium combo at the local McDonalds.

Which actually fits perfectly, because said stove would be about as useful in obtaining a Mac set, as that Anycubic would be in obtaining the contents of the new starter.

Expecting the new books to be inline with the Kill Team prices of £32.50 each.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
"This box of 20 minis costs the same as a machine that makes minis" is a valid argument.

I've had printers for 3 years now and I've still bought all the Warcry sets up to Red Harvest so far... even Catacombs. But this is my breaking point. GW is back to 2010 level completely insane greed. No doubt defended by trolls screaming production costs are through the roof... yes, thanks to Wargames Atlantic, we know exactly how much. Pennies per box. There's no justification for a 40% price increase compred to the original starter 3 years ago, with significantly less stuff in the box to boot.

Well, there is one justification. People still buy it, even so. Until they don't buy it anymore, that will feel like justification enough for GW.

DaveC wrote:Compendium cover (not sure of the source on this)

"We're totally in Ghur, guys !"

Looks legit enough.

Hanskrampf wrote:
If real, that looks a lot thinner than I expected. If it's softcover again like the other Warcry books, I hope it means it stays in the 35-37,50 € RRP range.

The four alliance books put together aren't that big either. To be fair, death and destruction put together barely reach the thickness of the chaos book.

I guess they'll keep the background inside, otherwise since it's just updated profiles and they're simply adding one reaction per faction...it's not that much added space in the end.

 DaveC wrote:
Compendium cover (not sure of the source on this)

Looks good enough. I'd rather have it all in one than having to buy a small library again.

Here's my thing; quality. Where else can I buy miniatures of that quality? What is the price of the closest comparison? Many of the individual minis in warbands sell in the $8-12 range on their own to RPG players who are quite happy with what they are getting. And I am MORE than happy to shell out premium prices for high-quality rules. They are hard to find. If this were a starter for, say, 40k, I would feel differently because the rules are worth a pittance to me.

Obviously there's a lot of subjectivity as well-I see many saying they won't buy it at XYZ price who also expressed they didn't particularly like the miniatures anyways. So I would question if/why they were going to buy them at any price. While the contents are particularly suited to my tastes and therefore have greater value.

My actual problem with the price is more that sticker shock is just terrible for trying to increase a game's popularity. While I feel the contents are worth the price --IN CONTEXT-- I do not think they serve well for getting people into the game. A larger number of lower quality minis for a lower price would be much better.

I quite like the bamboo people and the terrain, really. But as others have said, based on precedent I can expect just that to cost as much as the whole box when the kits are parted out.

It’s hard to compare a 3D printer to one purchase anyway, as you’d use it again and again.

If you already have one, files, resin, other materials etc, yeah way cheaper to get cool alternatives for all this box.

But then divide you’re printer cost by the number of projects you end up using it for, and add that on.


I don’t have one, would like one, but equally don’t want all the effort and cost that goes with it.
I’m still enticed by big boxes GW does.
Kill Team is swaying me with the hulk based battles. Gotta like both sides in the box too.

Warcry, don’t like the warbands enough. Terrain is neat though.

Have to add in the value of time spent running the printer as well, and the end product is of notably lower quality. The 3d printing route becomes a lot more appealing when looking at mass battle level games. For a skirmish game the real advantage isn't in price at all but customizability; one can peruse the immense amount of options out there to find a design that really speaks to them. So there is certainly a strong argument to be made, just the ones that have been made so far are strangely based on far weaker points.


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Danny76 wrote:
Warcry, don’t like the warbands enough. Terrain is neat though.

Individual figures from warbands have very strong resale value, often to the point where one could make money from it even buying a warband at full MSRP. Though how much one values the time it takes to do that is another matter.

There's nothing I've heard about the new rules or the toys that are coming along with them that makes me want to move on from v1. I'm still having fun with it and haven't even played with all of the gangs I've got yet.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

My actual problem with the price is more that sticker shock is just terrible for trying to increase a game's popularity. While I feel the contents are worth the price --IN CONTEXT-- I do not think they serve well for getting people into the game. A larger number of lower quality minis for a lower price would be much better.

Agreed. Launch set for a new edition needs to look like good value to hook people in. If you are marketing the game as season of four big boxes, you shouldn't scare people away with the first one. You can do it with subsequent ones but not the first. Initial sticker shock killed much interest in Necromunda Ash Wastes setting too, although the stickers that followed were equally bad.

Kill Team gets away with worse value every now and then if a big box is the first chance to get your hands on Death Korps of Krieg, Aeldari Corsairs, Chaos Renegade Guardsmen or other much awaited models.

It looks bad when whales such as myself start to second guess if we want to buy four boxes of Warcry and four boxes of Kill Team within a year.

I wouldn't expect a four box season to work for GW if the first box was significantly cheaper than the following ones. That runs the risk of people buying the first one and just not bothering with the rest. A little bit of honesty about the expected expenditure is probably going to be more successful as long as the first box that is supposed to get people hooked has enticing enough content to make that happen, with price being a secondary consideration.

I'm not sure Heart of Ghur does that, though you can see how they're giving it a good shot. GW is certainly trying to leverage a new setting as a selling point for people who want to vary their game up a bit after a couple of years in the Eightpoints. The terrain ties in with the current focus in AoS for crossover potential. I don't know if bamboo forest platforms is in high demand, though. It's different, but is it going to be popular? That remains to be seen. The warbands aren't extraordinary in any way. Warcry has had a good record of visually distinct warbands, and these just add to that lineup. Not bad, but not exceptional either.

In my opinion Kill Team has an easier time selling itself on the setting alone. Not sure yet how extensive the plastic offerings will be, but people have been dreaming of plastic Space Hulk terrain for a long time. Add an exotic niche team and new sculpts for models that didn't get anything in twenty years and it feels like a stronger box right there.

This is personal taste, of course, but I'm not sure Heart of Ghur is going to get people hooked in the same way as Kill Team. Sure it's great for people who like that style, but I don't think it has as close to universal appeal as Space Hulk 3D (in SPACE!). I reckon Warcry will follow the example of Kill Team, though, and have the first box be the full game with all the rules, dice, markers and stuff, while the extra content beyond the plastic in the following boxes is going to be severely limited, but come at a cheaper price than the first one. Make it seem like a better deal from that angle.

Kill Team has the advantage of it's teams either being resculpts, upgrades or entirely new units for existing 40k armies that people who have zero interest in the game will want to pick up, either from the box set itself or splits on ebay. Don't want Kommandos or Corsairs? Easy to get rid of. Don't want that CSM upgrade sprue? Guaranteed that someone will. 40k terrain is also easy to get rid of, although the Gnarlwood stuff could easily pass as a death world or sell to D&D players I guess. Navy Breachers are I think the first time they've done a team that doesn't easily fit into a 40k army (most people will have 0 problems using Traitor Guard as cultists)

They seemed to try and do that with the warbands and STD but the designs were so random and the rules implementations were so janky (like the Underworlds teams suffer from) it didn't feel as right as resculpting generic Marauders might. The Red Harvest Darkoath came the closest but those sculpts were too unique to want multiples of compared to the way Death Korps, Traitor Guard, etc look.

The only breakout was probably the Shadowstalkers because they were closer to a Kill Team release and easily fit in with DOK while being something new.

Kill team had an expensive launch box but got a cheaper starter box later on. By gw standards that box is actually a pretty good deal. Two teams scatter terrain and rules for £65. GW have been mirroring release strategies for 40k and AoS almost to a fault. It wouldn't surprise me to see a cheaper set for Warcry a few months later.

If we don't have a cheaper starter later, at least we'll have the core book for new edition and warbands sold separately.

Not sure we'll really have a "Kill Team" model with constant new starter boxes with new bands coming, because I believe it's mainly because 40k simply sells more than we got to eat it ad nauseam that way. And yeah, Warcry isn't that popular in the end, I have to admit it.

If we can have more new terrain and bands like they do with Heart of Ghur from time to time, it's good enough. I really dig the "realm-themed" terrain here, not just "generic ruins / dungeon to insert there". I'd love to see what they could make for Aqshy when the war season will eventually go to it and finally reveal the Incarnation of Aqshy equivalent teased in the Fyreslayer's battletome.

Sarouan wrote:
If we don't have a cheaper starter later, at least we'll have the core book for new edition and warbands sold separately.

Not sure we'll really have a "Kill Team" model with constant new starter boxes with new bands coming, because I believe it's mainly because 40k simply sells more than we got to eat it ad nauseam that way. And yeah, Warcry isn't that popular in the end, I have to admit it.

If we can have more new terrain and bands like they do with Heart of Ghur from time to time, it's good enough. I really dig the "realm-themed" terrain here, not just "generic ruins / dungeon to insert there". I'd love to see what they could make for Aqshy when the war season will eventually go to it and finally reveal the Incarnation of Aqshy equivalent teased in the Fyreslayer's battletome.

They've already confirmed that's whats happening. New box with 2 new warbands and scenery every quarter. Same as killteam.

Wonder how long that will last. I just can't see how that would be sustainable.

At least the next year if that's what they've planned for. Maybe the figures tell them it's more popular than expected.

I do remain mystified that they so often leave individual boxed units out of stock in favor of printing bundle boxes offering discounted profits. I guess that they sell well enough to make up for the smaller margin and cost to community relations, but find it difficult to imagine how that could keep going indefinitely. Certainly in my area it has been easy to see the bundle boxes selling progressively slower.

I guess we'll see over the two week order period. Being a limited box if it sells out or not.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Wonder how long that will last. I just can't see how that would be sustainable.

If it's 100% new terrain it might work, since a lot of people just buy it for that and resale value seems to be about 50% on Ebay which is pretty good, so there does seem to be demand for it. The new Kill Team season getting announced as "build a space hulk board" and WC as "build a gnarlwoood board" seems to suggest selling new terrain goes down a treat, whereas just repackaging older stuff might not.

Designers notes for the new warbands, and something like a roadmap for the coming year:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/07/28/designing-the-characterful-new-heart-of-ghur-warbands-for-warcry/

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
I do remain mystified that they so often leave individual boxed units out of stock in favor of printing bundle boxes offering discounted profits. I guess that they sell well enough to make up for the smaller margin and cost to community relations, but find it difficult to imagine how that could keep going indefinitely. Certainly in my area it has been easy to see the bundle boxes selling progressively slower.

It makes sense to sell whatever gets bought more. Production costs are negligible either way. Sell a box that costs 50 cents to make for 40€, sell a box that costs 2€ to make for 180€, doesn't really matter.

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
Designers notes for the new warbands, and something like a roadmap for the coming year:

Indeed, so I was wrong about thinking Warcry may not follow the Kill Team model. Seems like it will.

They're talking about new warbands and terrain to complement your "Gnarlwood corner", so I expect we'll see more from the places shown on Gnarlwood's map.

There'd better be some seraphon broken spaceship parts in it at some point.

Well it’s all Ghur for these boxes we know. And then 4 more somewhere else.
Definitely works as a model. As they sell all those big box deals. Then later release warbands solo, like Kill Team.
Now getting it’s new run of four boxes, perfect planning.