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 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
All in all, i'm pretty dissapointed with this Kickstarter, which turned into a generic fantasy Kickstarter instead of providing terrain as promised.

Same. From engaging on Archon's discord it's clear once again short sighted selfishness wins, people whining and moaning until they get their way, demanding miniatures already easily available cheap today but they'd rather have them in the free stretch goal pack taking up the space of terrain upgrades that nobody else will make, and jesus the stink they threw up to get the meme barbarian duck because they neeeeeed it for their campaign as if that's still going to be running when the KS delivers.

Who is going in for doors and wants to swap their bonus roofs to me for something else?

The Market stall has been sculpted looks to be 4 panels - back wall is probably a half panel (half a sprue worth).

Ok, you madlads convinced me to put in a dollar on the family account in case I decide to do double villages...

Kind of dumb a figure can't actually fit in the market stall lol.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
All in all, i'm pretty dissapointed with this Kickstarter, which turned into a generic fantasy Kickstarter instead of providing terrain as promised.

Same. From engaging on Archon's discord it's clear once again short sighted selfishness wins, people whining and moaning until they get their way, demanding miniatures already easily available cheap today but they'd rather have them in the free stretch goal pack taking up the space of terrain upgrades that nobody else will make, and jesus the stink they threw up to get the meme barbarian duck because they neeeeeed it for their campaign as if that's still going to be running when the KS delivers.

I met that duck, he was in a dungeon in a White Dwarf in the early 80s. He was late turning up in miniature, and I hadnt ever seen the character, or anything like him since c1982. AKA a waste. But people neeeeeed him I suppose.

In Archon's defence the phoenix is a good idea, so long as it comes in plain or red translucent plastic and doesn't have armour on it. A generic phoenix miniature is something they can actually sell. You know, like in shops, if that's a thing. Had we a nice terrain feature of similar volume like a clock tower, it would be nice but potentially has less customer appeal.

I cant blame Archon for playing to the crowd so long as its the right crowd. Ignore kiddies wanting tat that they cant sell and make decent multipart monster and character kits, and terrain too. I blame the management, they are doing OK but could be doing far far better.
- Make retail kits for sale
- Make a boardgame with awesome miniatures
- Make stretchgoal equivalent boxsets of generic or even specific scatter and furnishings for SF and fantasy.
- Retail the dragons.

Take a look at what other companies with a better business model are making a mint on. They have the tools, they have the skills but are still making junk items and mixing things in weird stretchgoal boxes that don't make sense.

After D&L 3 they should start over. Retool the molds or all their stretchgoals into useful sets that they can retail sell.
They can keep the animals, it was a relative waste but some liked them and they are at least self contained. Fans can buy them. But a stretchgoal, stupid idea. Yes Dungeons and Doggies sold and had appeal but it had a specific appeal, D&L was a generic project, they had to waste money giving away their familiars when they could have made them into an add on and sold it, at a reduced price in their campaigns.

[ tough love ]
Archon if you are reading this at some point. Make a tavern boxset, make a barracks boxset, make throne room and torture chamber boxset. Add all the relevant items even some appropriate miniatures into each set and retail them. THEY WOULD SELL.
You can still make stretchgoals, just have a box set of minis to hand out and add a new mini every 20k and add a new themed boxset every 200k. So as the funding grows we slowly unlock random adventurers, monsters and NPC miniatures, then suddenly when we hit the milestone, Bam! we get a tavern with a bar, four tables, three benches, ten stools, a barkeep, a barmaid, a bouncer and four drunks. The backers go wild. Some table scatter like tankards or plates, a fireplace with spitroast hog and a chandelier to swing on 50K later; and the crowd goes wilder. You know you will reach that milestone so can plan ahead. Then after all of use get this part of the stretchgoals it is a ready to market boxset you can sell to any FLGS and e-store that wants them, and many will. 200k later we do the same for the torture chamber, or the barracks....

Play smarter guys. Let us see if you can unscrew up D&L 4 with the science fiction. Think about the terrain sets you can provide as stretchgoals transitioning into retail boxsets. Yes you got over a million euro, well done, seriously. But you have advanced pantographics and mold making technology, you can do better, you can do more. The hardware you have invested a whole lot of money in is not being used efficiently. You should be smarter, you should be wiser, you should be richer. If Mantic or Reaper had your hardware advantage they would be rolling in dosh. Reaper makes twice what you make on a campaign, and that is with cheap plastic resin.
[ /tough love ]

I think it's going to reach €1,400K after all now at €1,324K it jumped €15K in the half hour I was having dinner.

Finale livestream starts in 33 minutes on Facebook last chance to badger them for something or other

So there was nothing between the barbarienne at 1.22M and the Phoenix at 1.4M?

Are the stretchgoal box spaces all full? If so why did you add so much fething junk!?

Yet again Orlanth I quite agree with you. I just hope Archon sees your post and listens. It is spot on.

Livestream link

https://www.facebook.com/dungeonsandlasers/videos/1850611555112653/?__so__=channel_tab&__rv__=all_videos_card

Free Liche mini for completing the after KS survey.

 Grumpy Gnome wrote:
Yet again Orlanth I quite agree with you. I just hope Archon sees your post and listens. It is spot on.

Thanks I will will use this to springboard into a new comment.

[ more tough love]
Archon, those dragons that you found were a problem for D&L2, yes they were generous stretchgoals to add on. I thank you for that, I really do. I liked them so much I came back for more. A free dragon with each pledge was generous and not a wasteful idea, seriously that wasn't a problem. Many people factored in those dragons and bought more dungeon as a result.
The problem is that you are not putting the dragons in the shops where they belong.
You are thinking of them as a loss and divorcing them from stretchgoals while you should be celebrating the absolute mint you would get if they were flying from the virtual shelves on Amazon.
Yes its early days, you have only just made them, but dont be cutting back from your backers now. Don't consider them a loss, consider the massive jumbled stretchgoal boxes the loss. Consider them a sunk cost you can now turn into long term profit.

As for having factory staff cut out Fantasy components from SF sprues to sell Fantasy stretchgoal sets. Don't do that. Instead recognise that you screwed the pooch on composition and just sell them as they were for slightly more until you can retool into more sensible boxsets that you can retail.

When you do SF later this year, add new core sets, recognise some things dont work as rooms. Corporate offices and starship upper decks should be large and sweeping. If you make it it will sell. You can still have rooms for med bays, bunkers etc but dont be afraid to change the format, don't make them just reskins of the same box. Add doors to the sprues from the outset, plan ahead, make it make sense.
Plan your features carefully so you can make stretchgoal boxsets you can retail later.
Consider your scatter and furnishings to fit your room sets so that while they appear to be random scatter in the campaign they become furnishing sprues later. Consider retailing the rooms with a sprue of relevanrt scatter in them. Then you can sell them for 30 Euro rather than 20 and poeple will buy,

Imagine this: A Med bay 'room' boxset with three sprues of med bay walls and floors, no clips on those sprues some there is room for the door and hinges, it comes with two clip sprues as normal but an extra sprue with lab equipment, hospital/exprimental beds, stand alone consoles and no tat. Have items in useful numbers so one console and lab station, one autodoc capsule but three or four beds. Make your room a one stop shop for this feature in SF gaming whether on a Cyberpunk world or on a spaceship or an underground bunker cooking up a not-T Virus.

Imagine this: A factory 'core' set similar the Med Bay set with industrial machinery and a conveyor belt system. Similar to the above in retail concept but with a twist. Special add on tile rims that marry up the factory set with your Rampart Cobalt Factory. So the room walls become internal partition walls and the room floors have enough area to match the amount of stuff you get with Cobalt.

Imagine this: You can still include the fun items that keep the backers happy, like a space goblin, cute animal, baby xenomorph or other weird stuff. It can all be on one or two sprues that are separated from the theme sprues but included when you buy all the scatter in a stretchgoal box. This way we get the same as previous campaigns but it is all set up for a quick shuffle and continuous sale in relevant themed kits.

We are anxious to see what you can make. You are making things nobody else is, or at least nobody else is making in plastic and affordable by volume, but you are unfocused and are missing opportunities. Opportunities you have serious backers wanting to put down serious pledges for and can transition effortlessly into continuous retail afterwards and hassle free add ons for future campaigns.

I hope someone at Archon gets to read this, and if you do I hope it gets translated into Polish and passed up to management.
[ /more tough love ]

 Grumpy Gnome wrote:

 Gallahad wrote:
In your guy's opinions would the stone tower room blend well with fantasy core?

I'd like to use fantasy core plus the stone tower room as the base of buildings but I'm worried they won't look good together. I'm just trying to figure out how to use the fantasy core basically since it is such a good value.

The Fantasy Core has nice, generic field stone floors that work well for a lot of settings. Better than the stone tower room floors in my opinion. However, the Fantasy Core walls have blocked up doors and windows that look odd in many settings other than as a ruins, dungeon or sewer.

Altdorf after Karl Franz put the window tax into effect?

I envisioned the same thing, coherent, full room sets with furniture and maybe even NPCs.

Live stream ongoing,

Market stall is basically half a sprue (4 'tile' sections) which is why it's one per backer

(they say they forgot to put the info on it when they first announced it)

No Canada friendly shipping

"We continue to work on the issue of Canada friendly shipping but with the high cost of containers and the ongoing backlog in sourcing them, it is not possible to provide Canada friendly shipping at this time. We'll continue to work on this in the background over the next few months and we're hopeful that these costs will reduce as the world gets back to "normal". Canada friendly shipping will not apply to anything ordered with Rapid Delivery chosen for it. We will update again on this before the pm closes."

The €931K egg is a physical egg mini

Fountain is intended to take up a 2 square by 2 square footprint.

They are saying that unlike Oriental dragon if they don't get 1.4M, no Phoenix.

We will see, I think we will make that total the amount this project is getting. I watched the pledge and someone an hour ago added a new pledge, incrementing the backer total and the money total went up 6K. There are far bigger whales than me.

There are no add ones planned other than a Phoenix. 40K to go, we should get that, and if we are slightly short they will likely reconsider and add it anyway. They would be fools not to, it would disappoint backers and a lot of people will want more than one.

Something else I noted, a lot of the last minute backers are not looking through the pledge options properly and going straight for City or Kingdom pledge levels rather than single or multi-Village. Shrug.

Artwork for the Liche survey mini

Is there a timestamp on the survey. That liche shows promise and I dont want to miss out.

In fact I would likely want to buy a second as an add on if the price is right.

 Orlanth wrote:
Is there a timestamp on the survey. That liche shows promise and I dont want to miss out.

In fact I would likely want to buy a second as an add on if the price is right.

They'll send it out to backers after the KS ends. So long as you complete it using the same email address as your KS account it will be added to your rewards. It's 1 per backer and they haven't offered an option to purchase survey minis before. (another reason to have 2 backer accounts)

Something mentioned in passing was the theme for D&L4. They were talking about 'swamps related' and 'nature related' and it was 'too early to see'.

My above comments still stand if SF comes later, or not at all. In which case may I suggest appropriate druidic gribblies with D&L 4 hedgerow 'room' sets and appropriate aquatic terrors in the same sprue to be linked with swamp floor tile sets, or whatever else you are doing.

Maybe D&L4 is in fact Rampart 2 and uses a different system. It would make more sense to do biomes differently than tilesets.

Food for thought

The D&L2 survey mini was IIRC He-Derek and he ended up being on the stretch goal sprues so everybody got one per SG pack

The Rampart 2 survey mini was a servo skull that they completely forgot to tool and nobody got it

I got curious with your comments earlier and went over to Discord and watched the frenzy.

It is quite disturbing to see people make crazy pledges in order to unlock the phoenix. I don't think all can afford what they are doing.

There is enthusiasm and atmosphere there but it is sad in a way.

 lord_blackfang wrote:


The D&L2 survey mini was IIRC He-Derek and he ended up being on the stretch goal sprues so everybody got one per SG pack

I didn't pay much attention to that, it was a gimic miniature and when the stretchgoals came he became a forgotten add on. the giant riding Derek will be bisected, its a reasonable seated miniature, I wont waste at least that half of him.

The stream was a bit like that as well encouraging people to add more more more buy 10 Giants OK it was bit tongue in cheek but some people will over stretch themselves in the hype. Remember pledge responsibly and never more than you are willing to lose should worse come to worse (Archon have delivered multiple KS but there's always that risk with KS)

To be honest, I always find the final bit of a Kickstarter a little scary because of the almost cultish behaviour you see from some people.

Phoenix unlocked with one hour to go.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Dolnikan wrote:
To be honest, I always find the final bit of a Kickstarter a little scary because of the almost cultish behaviour you see from some people.

I put my wallet away and joined the party.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Furious is just edging out Infernal from recent counts. This is still being voted on.

If you havent voted yet, or havent for a while at least can you do my a favour and make sure the phoenix which is not wearing armour wins.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Nice event on Discord:

mijoy84 — Today at 22:21 (about ten minutes after it happened)
It's unlocked!

Qamzyah — Today at 22:21
I can see you are using Internet Explorer lol

 Orlanth wrote:

Furious is just edging out Infernal from recent counts. This is still being voted on.

Definitely hoping for this, popped my vote in early but it looked pretty 'Infernal' at that point.

Darn, just missed it. Does anyone know if there is a late pledge option?

drakerocket wrote:
Darn, just missed it. Does anyone know if there is a late pledge option?

There will be a late pledge option when the PM opens in a few weeks.

I missed D&L1 and first heard about D&L2 from the Rampart campaign, which was the first I backed.

I entirely late backed D&L1 in the run up to D&L2 and was able to put in two orders in that time, the second on receiving the first and a few days before D&L2.
I put in a second order for Rampart at the same time, and I put in a second order for D&L2 three days before this campaign began on receiving my rewards. This last batch is late but with D&L3 in full swing I let that slide for now. It will come.

I have had zero problems getting my stuff and late backing. There were no extra fees, no loss of stretchgoals and one per backer items apply to EACH DELIVERY. Though this may or may not be true for my second order of D&L2, I will report here if I get a second Jerry.

So two things to note.

1. Zero worries, you only miss out on free Nubble, but you missed out on that if you didn't early back, so most others have too. Its a decent Nurgle spawn but if you like him you can buy him.

2. For every project so far I bought more stuff on receiving my first order, so double ordered on receipt. This is how happy I was when I got my goods and was able to review them myself close at hand. You can take that as my endorsement.
Once it was literally a double order as the packers repicked my first order and stacked it with the second. Archon were gracious enough to let me keep the mispicked items, but asked me to share them. I did that. Thank you Archon.

I'm not bothered at all about rapid delivery, so I think as soon as my village shows up I'll get another one as a late backer to get all the extra 1 per backer models. I guess I'll need to use a different email address, but that's not an issue.