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 godardc wrote:
Is it toxic to respect the background of the game of is it toxic to join a game and disrespect the authors, the fluff and others gamers, heavily invested in it ?

Disrespect the authors? Seriously? Have any of the authors come out and said their writing should be taken as gospel?

I've heard the argument of "respect history" in the context of games based on actual historical events, but "respect the authors"?

I'd be very surprised if the authors care what you do with your toys.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 godardc wrote:
Is it toxic to respect the background of the game of is it toxic to join a game and disrespect the authors, the fluff and others gamers, heavily invested in it ?

Disrespect the authors? Seriously? Have any of the authors come out and said their writing should be taken as gospel?

I've heard the argument of "respect history" in the context of games based on actual historical events, but "respect the authors"?

I'd be very surprised if the authors care what you do with your toys.

I’ve heard several GW employees say the exact opposite. The Horus Heresy isn’t history, rather it’s the ancient mythology of the ‘now’ that is 40K. The novels are just one version of what might have happened.

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 godardc wrote:
Is it toxic to respect the background of the game of is it toxic to join a game and disrespect the authors, the fluff and others gamers, heavily invested in it ?

Disrespect the authors? Seriously? Have any of the authors come out and said their writing should be taken as gospel?

I've heard the argument of "respect history" in the context of games based on actual historical events, but "respect the authors"?

I'd be very surprised if the authors care what you do with your toys.

I’ve heard several GW employees say the exact opposite. The Horus Heresy isn’t history, rather it’s the ancient mythology of the ‘now’ that is 40K. The novels are just one version of what might have happened.

Every instance I've heard of GW refer to the lore, even in the Designers Notes of codexes and the core rulebooks, in White Dwarf articles, and in interviews, their stance is the same: The lore is there to inspire. It is not gospel. It is not set in stone. It is not a book you're meant to beat other people over the head with.

In so many ways, GW has given opportunities within their games and settings to allow players to make their own lore, create their own faction, and do their own thing. If you want to adhere to the correct iconography of the 124th Chapter of the Ultramarines Legion, you can absolutely do that. If you want to paint your Raven Guard as yellow, you can do that too.

In so many ways, GW has given opportunities within their games and settings to allow players to make their own lore, create their own faction, and do their own thing. If you want to adhere to the correct iconography of the 124th Chapter of the Ultramarines Legion, you can absolutely do that. If you want to paint your Raven Guard as yellow, you can do that too.

The Canari guard: they are the advanced warning system of the legion, they are a 'suicide squad' type of organization meant as censure for Legionnaires that fail in their duties. They go far in advanced positions and if they stop emitting their signal it means that they were wiped out and that a proper response is needed...

I'd play that, lol

The issue with "lore accurate" is that whose lore at a what point in time? The lore is not exhaustive and it keeps getting expanded and outright changed. Like it has been said, originally there absolutely were mark VII in the HH. Marks other than VI and VII are the retcon. And in the future the lore will be changed again. So it seems bizarre to be hung about it on the level of such minute details.

I personally enjoy my own little head canon as to what my different units are and why they have this or that type of armor. They are my dudes, and so must abide by the rules i set. That being said, there is a minimal level of WYSIWYG that needs to happen so that games are clear, but apart from that, no trouble...

 godardc wrote:

Is it toxic to respect the background of the game of is it toxic to join a game and disrespect the authors, the fluff and others gamers, heavily invested in it ?

Considering basically every interview with Rick Priestly about the Horus Heresy contains a line to the effect of "That wasn't my intent but the company went a different direction I guess", GW itself "disrespects the authors".

That's oversimplifying a fair bit (as a company product is by necessity going to be a collaboration, not a singular vision ever)

Button trivial is annoying enough in real life (because there are multiple manufacturers, scrounging, looting, etc), but for made up stuff with a history retcons, ad hoc justifications, change of direction and a general attitude of 'this sounds cool at this moment,' Its pretty much absurd from day one.

 godardc wrote:

Is it toxic to respect the background of the game of is it toxic to join a game and disrespect the authors, the fluff and others gamers, heavily invested in it ?

For me the toxic part is gatekeeping other people's hobby... You can go as deep as you want in your lore exploration, you can enjoy when people paint their armies in fully 100% lore-accurate livery, and you can leave the people who paint their raven guard bright yellow to enjoy their fun...

Voss wrote:
That's oversimplifying a fair bit (as a company product is by necessity going to be a collaboration, not a singular vision ever)

Button trivial is annoying enough in real life (because there are multiple manufacturers, scrounging, looting, etc), but for made up stuff with a history retcons, ad hoc justifications, change of direction and a general attitude of 'this sounds cool at this moment,' Its pretty much absurd from day one.

Which is my entire point, yes(toneless internet and all that). Saying people are "disrespecting the authors" by doing something creatively different is absurd and is exactly like demanding GW never strays from Priestley's original notes on the Heresy.

GW / FW ignoring their own fluff is common enough. For example, the side-bar fluff for Medusan Immortals states "the Immortals wore no symbols of their clan or Legion, save its numeration and the black-on-white death’s head symbol which proclaimed their mortal intent" while the models have their Legion symbol on their shields and shoulders.

 ChaosDad wrote:

 godardc wrote:

Is it toxic to respect the background of the game of is it toxic to join a game and disrespect the authors, the fluff and others gamers, heavily invested in it ?

For me the toxic part is gatekeeping other people's hobby... You can go as deep as you want in your lore exploration, you can enjoy when people paint their armies in fully 100% lore-accurate livery, and you can leave the people who paint their raven guard bright yellow to enjoy their fun...

Reminds me of the saying about religion: when your religion says YOU can't do something, that's fine. When your religion says I can't do something, then we have a problem. Apply that to most other areas of life and it's amazing how well you can get along with everyone despite cultural differences.

People doing their own thing is fine, people not liking what that might be is also fine. Expressing that opinion is also fine. The beautiful part about life is that you have agency. You can simply avoid those who do things or have opinions you don't like.

Just saying, these guys yelling about other people's armour marks sound just like me in the 90s:

"All armour marks except MKVI & MKVII are wrong and have no place in Horus Heresy"

So I can kinda see their point. But it's still weak behaviour. Accept that there are things in life you have no control over. It's Ok.

 ChaosDad wrote:
I personally enjoy my own little head canon as to what my different units are and why they have this or that type of armor. They are my dudes, and so must abide by the rules i set.

I think basically every hobbyist (and fan of other expansive IPs) uses head canon to some degree. These sprawling IPs are filled with inconsistencies and contradictions, and people filter that information to shape those universes to their tastes. Sometimes conflicting head canons bump into one another on electronic forums and nerdplosions result.

Close combat Leviathan today:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/07/14/heresy-thursday-the-close-combat-leviathan-dreadnought-charges-in/



Also

We’ll be seeing this hulking monstrosity hit the front lines a little bit before the long-range version. You’ll also be able to pick up the melee weapon kit separately should you wish to mix and match loadouts, while a similar kit full of massive guns will be released on its own in the near future.

Glad the weapons are also a separate release. A wise move there I feel, as it should also open us up to the Legion Specific chassis from FW, assuming the fittings are the same.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just checked the boxed set, and I reckon we’ll see the same for the Contemptor kits.

Warm up your magnets folks!

So the CC one has a halo & shoulder bling, and the shooty one has torso bling:



(Does the crotch eye of Horus look sculpted or painted on?)

Sculpted. I do wonder if the body kit is the same, and we get a choice of plating.

Warhammer Community wrote:We’ll be seeing this hulking monstrosity hit the front lines a little bit before the long-range version. You’ll also be able to pick up the melee weapon kit separately should you wish to mix and match loadouts, while a similar kit full of massive guns will be released on its own in the near future.

Excellent news.

Wish I knew if there would be an Iron Hands specific Leviathan on the horizon.

Looks like I might be getting the melee variant, as I don't have siege drills yet, and I want the shoulder plates.

Assuming price isn't so high might just as well buy 1 of both. If for 1.7 leviathan you get 1 with options might just as well have 2 with wide range of options anyway.

Either way need 1-2 hulls and both weapon sprues.

Not a fan of those shoulder plates on the assault leviathan, other than that everything looks Ok.

I just wish these reveals would finally manifest into tangible releases. ATM, even scoring a Deimos Rhino is close to unobtanium..

Still waiting on the Predator... or autocannon heavy weapons.
Personally i found it always wierd that there was a melee leviathan but that's just me.

Not Online!!! wrote:
Still waiting on the Predator... or autocannon heavy weapons.
Personally i found it always wierd that there was a melee leviathan but that's just me.

Well at least it's on walker designed for cramped narrow areas.

I like the little shoulder flare plates, they add a nice visual difference without going too fiddly-diddly and ostentatious.

I like that they are making it 2 kits instead of 1....

tneva82 wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
Still waiting on the Predator... or autocannon heavy weapons.
Personally i found it always wierd that there was a melee leviathan but that's just me.

Well at least it's on walker designed for cramped narrow areas.

TBF, the contemptor is already larger than the box dread and the Leviathan beats the Deredo ontop of the others... (sans rocket battery on the deredo), i don't buy it.

but that is just nitpicking.

Still waiting on contemptors aswell. But it's nice to know that we will get predators, heavy weapons, Contemptors and Leviathans which are atleast dual varieties.

the only core things missing then would be Recon Marines, Assault marines (dual kit hopefully), and upgrade sprues for mortalis options there? Oh and breachers but those could just be a shieldpack.

And larger means it can't be designed for sieges? Where visibility is short so being blasted from far is less worry as you are in punching range fast