Horus Heresy / 30K news and rumours. Plastic Mechanicum p. 252.

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**tneva82**

Melee option isn't even quaranteed to be upgrade sprue with gw's "this bit goes to that bit and no other" attitude. Zero surprise if waiting with unassembled tacs ends up waste of time

**ClockworkZion**

morganfreeman wrote:
ClockworkZion wrote:
morganfreeman wrote:
Arbitrator wrote:

It might be a case of too much stuff launching at once. Most people probably haven't even finished painting their AoD box let alone all the releases since then.

I actually suspect it's the opposite.

<snip>

I've been busy with work, but as a NL player I wasn't motivated to make time to work my through the AoD box due to a lack of Legion upgrade options, and things being out of stock almost constantly haven't helped. I'm still chugging working on my NL, but with so many things missing from options it's been a bit of a slog. At least I have good reason to take my time and customize my units with Trophies of Judgement in the meantime I guess.

Aye, I made that post because it's exactly how I feel. My project is World Eaters and I've quickly grown tired of getting my 'baseline' of tacs set up. I want to keep going but why bother? The most basic thing I need - CC poses and arms - isn't available. I'm not going to dump hundreds of extras dollars into predators, dreads, land raiders, and heavy weapon sprues when I haven't even been provided with the most basic part of my fething army.

If the MkVI had a chainsword and bolt pistol in hands I'd at least be able to save those up for Despoiler squads while I do support squads with the kits but they didn't give us any held chainswords and all the pistols are holstered.

I don't hate the MkVI kit, but the lack of options that are on their unit entry makes it feel like we're missing a sprue for the kit.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

I think GW's plan is that everyone who wants World Eaters, Raven Guard, Space Wolves, Night Lords, or Blood Angels would come and buy all the shooty options with AoD, tanks, dreads... then turn around and also buy all the CC options when they come out in a few months.

I can't speak for everyone but Night Lords need both sets of options. A lot of their bonuses trigger off pinning or making units flee so some shooting is needed, plus it helps thin units so you out number before you charge in.

That said, right now terminators, dreadnoughts, FW kits and tacticals with chain bayonets (regular bayonets pair well with A Talent for Murder as well, but shred is worth it) are pretty much my melee sources right now.

**AllSeeingSkink**

tneva82 wrote:
Melee option isn't even quaranteed to be upgrade sprue with gw's "this bit goes to that bit and no other" attitude. Zero surprise if waiting with unassembled tacs ends up waste of time

As mentioned a few pages back, I personally hope that the melee option is NOT an upgrade sprue, I'd rather have a melee option with more dynamic / advancing poses than what comes with the regular tacs.

If people bought AoD hoping for an upgrade sprue to make them melee, I'd say that was a bit of a gamble.

**Racerguy180**

Just look to Intercessors...

Which is not necessarily a bad thing.

There's a ton of poses available across the appropriately equipped kits

**AllSeeingSkink**

Racerguy180 wrote:
Just look to Intercessors...

Which is not necessarily a bad thing.

There's a ton of poses available across the appropriately equipped kits

Yeah, it'd be good if they did something like the Intercessors.

**ClockworkZion**

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
Melee option isn't even quaranteed to be upgrade sprue with gw's "this bit goes to that bit and no other" attitude. Zero surprise if waiting with unassembled tacs ends up waste of time

As mentioned a few pages back, I personally hope that the melee option is NOT an upgrade sprue, I'd rather have a melee option with more dynamic / advancing poses than what comes with the regular tacs.

If people bought AoD hoping for an upgrade sprue to make them melee, I'd say that was a bit of a gamble.

I have no expectations, just waiting for releases. Already squirrelled some money away to get one of each of the weapon kits coming out this weekend just in case they don't get back in for a while. Least I can work towards my goal of having units of all the weapons.

**ScarletRose**

Racerguy180 wrote:
Just look to Intercessors...

Which is not necessarily a bad thing.

There's a ton of poses available across the appropriately equipped kits

Intercessors was exactly my thought when AoD came out and the rumors had mentioned a three size set of starters like 40k had - maybe we'll see melee marines in this supposed starter? It would give people a reason to buy even if they already have the AoD box.

**Racerguy180**

It gives me hope. This is coming from someone that it a modeler first.

With the variety of poses I have for MkX Tacticus armour is perfect. It just took 4+ years to happen and I don't wish the same for 30k!

I probably have each pose available(available across monopose & not kit) of armour in each role(regular intercessors, assault, & hellblasters). If they follow the established paradigm I'm ok with the design direction.

If not, they can suck it!!!!

**Moopy**

tauist wrote:
morganfreeman wrote:
Arbitrator wrote:

It might be a case of too much stuff launching at once. Most people probably haven't even finished painting their AoD box let alone all the releases since then.

I actually suspect it's the opposite.

The launched lacked numerous fundamental kits, and plenty of what was there immediately sold out and was unavailable for months. Fully half of the legions are assault oriented, with at least a quarter being being "viewed" as dedicated CC forces. Launching the game without a despoiler kit / despoiler upgrade sprue for tac squads is madness. Anyone who wanted to play World Eaters, Raven Guard, Space Wolves, Night Lords, or Blood Angels wasn't given the tools to properly begin a project for those armies. Those wanting to play Sons of Horus, Emperor's Children, or several other options fared little better. Anyone wanting to play these armies can't get even begin projects including their most iconic units because the tools nearly don't exist without dumping money into the secondary market. There are technically forge world options, but then you pay even more insane prices for poorly cast stumpy munchkins.

I do applaud the fairly rapid pace at which they're getting vehicles out. But not everyone is going to run, or even want, dreads and predators. But I can confidently say every player is going to want a squad of dudes kitted out for close combat. And ontop of that almost every Legion has legion-unique CC oriented squad built on the idea of veterans. Launching the game without a despoiler kit / despoiler upgrade sprue for tac squads is madness.

I suspect that new blood is more likely to drift away, or not even hop in to begin with, when such fundamental kits are missing.

As a BA player who wants his army's Assault Squads to match the scale of his tac & support squads, I wholeheartedly agree. HH desperately needs more plastic infantry kits. I've postponed building my AoD box because I'm still waiting for Assault Infantry options. I've bought my Liber and even have the rulebook as epub, but I'm not going to be even close to playing the game until we get more kits to fill the Troop slots with. Got Elite & Heavy Support slots filled to the brim already, but those do not an army make..

Yep. This is my biggest gripe so far- no CC at all. No way I'm spending close to $100 for 5 resin troops. Nope. My army languishes.

**MajorWesJanson**

I'd expect if they do make a melee squad it will be the basics- pistols and chainswords, with a power fist, plasma pistol, and power sword for the sergeant. Then a weapon pack with say a left and right handed version of all the various pistols and special melee weapons, basically like the melee weapon sets in resin, but in plastic and probably 2 copies of the sprue in a box.

**morganfreeman**

MajorWesJanson wrote:
I'd expect if they do make a melee squad it will be the basics- pistols and chainswords, with a power fist, plasma pistol, and power sword for the sergeant. Then a weapon pack with say a left and right handed version of all the various pistols and special melee weapons, basically like the melee weapon sets in resin, but in plastic and probably 2 copies of the sprue in a box.

I don’t think anyone would have a problem with that.

The biggest part of a melee squad is going to be the marine scale and also the poses. There’s only do much you can do with braced tactical legs and arms meant to be holding boogers. Also the pistols and chain swords themselves. Even with 3rd party chain axes I’ve hit a road block in that I don’t have any more bolt pistols to use, and this is after tearing up some ancient assault marines to cannibalize theirs.

**tauist**

MajorWesJanson wrote:
I'd expect if they do make a melee squad it will be the basics- pistols and chainswords, with a power fist, plasma pistol, and power sword for the sergeant. Then a weapon pack with say a left and right handed version of all the various pistols and special melee weapons, basically like the melee weapon sets in resin, but in plastic and probably 2 copies of the sprue in a box.

There was a rumour that a possible Assault Squad kit would be coming with the same "upgrade sprue" as what's present in the MKVI Tactical Squad kit. Doesn't sound too far fetched to me tbh. I reckon we'll get one sprue with 5 poses, 5 sets of bolt pistols & chainswords and that same upgrade sprue, and these duplicated so there's 10 or 20 models in the kit. Jump packs and Assault weapon options would then be coming as an upgrade kit.

**hotsauceman1**

I would just like different arms for the none bolter models for MK6

**tauist**

hotsauceman1 wrote:
I would just like different arms for the none bolter models for MK6

In that case, did you know that the Missile Launcher / Heavy Bolter upgrade kit for the MKVI comes with spare arms, which you can use to make assault marines with? Obviously you'd need spare CC weapons but yeh

**Keel**

tauist wrote:
MajorWesJanson wrote:
I'd expect if they do make a melee squad it will be the basics- pistols and chainswords, with a power fist, plasma pistol, and power sword for the sergeant. Then a weapon pack with say a left and right handed version of all the various pistols and special melee weapons, basically like the melee weapon sets in resin, but in plastic and probably 2 copies of the sprue in a box.

There was a rumour that a possible Assault Squad kit would be coming with the same "upgrade sprue" as what's present in the MKVI Tactical Squad kit. Doesn't sound too far fetched to me tbh. I reckon we'll get one sprue with 5 poses, 5 sets of bolt pistols & chainswords and that same upgrade sprue, and these duplicated so there's 10 or 20 models in the kit. Jump packs and Assault weapon options would then be coming as an upgrade kit.

Very few things on the upgrade sprue are usable for the Assault Squad.

**tauist**

Today's HH Thursday introduces the Liber Imperium - dex for Custodes, Sisters of Silence, Solar Auxilia & Assassins.

Such a long wait for the IXth upgrade announcements...

**MajorWesJanson**

Last week was upgrades, this week is book. Hopefully next week is plastics, maybe infantry to release with the land raider and liberty imperialis?

**Shadow Walker**

Remind me please - is the Garro supposed to be in the Liber Imperium or with another book like one with Black Shields etc.?

**Platuan4th**

Garro is in the Legacy PDF

**Shadow Walker**

Platuan4th wrote:
Garro is in the Legacy PDF

But was there no mention about it being another book after ones we already know, that will include updated rules for him and other options from the PDF? I swear I read it somewhere.

**Gert**

There was mention in the PDF that at some point Knights Errant would show up in a future campaign book. The Liber books are the Codexes of HH, campaign books will be similar to the Black Books from past editions of HH.

**Shadow Walker**

Gert wrote:
There was mention in the PDF that at some point Knights Errant would show up in a future campaign book.

So being in a campaign books would likely mean that they (and others there) will be an addition to the existing forces rather than a separate force list?

**Gert**

I mean the Knights Errant were never an army to begin with. They were units with Agent of the Emperor which meant you could take them in a Loyalist army.

**Shadow Walker**

Gert wrote:
I mean the Knights Errant were never an army to begin with. They were units with Agent of the Emperor which meant you could take them in a Loyalist army.

Yeah, I simply thought that they could expand them from, if I remember correctly, single HQ characters, to the small strike force akin to 40k Deathwatch (especially from the times it was introduced = with limited amount of elite units available).

**Gert**

Regardless of what gets added, I'd be very surprised to see the Knights Errant be anything more than their current form of Agents.

**chaos0xomega**

Did anyone else catch in the article the self-contradiction in the Nemesis rule?

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/09/08/heresy-thursday-custodes-solar-auxilia-and-assassins-prepare-for-war-with-liber-imperium/

and doth I quote:

These mighty warriors scan the battlefield looking for particularly worthy targets. Once an enemy unit fulfils the essential criteria to count as a ‘Nemesis’ unit the Custodes can engage, gaining +1 Attacks, +1 to Charge Rolls, and never needing to roll higher than 4+ to score a Hit – unless that foe is a Primarch.

Except if you read the Nemesis rule itself it says:

A nemesis unit is defined as any enemy unit that fulfills at least one of the following conditions:

* The unit include one or more models with at least one of the following Unit Types or Unit Sub-Types: Primarch....

**Arbitrator**

chaos0xomega wrote:
Did anyone else catch in the article the self-contradiction in the Nemesis rule?

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/09/08/heresy-thursday-custodes-solar-auxilia-and-assassins-prepare-for-war-with-liber-imperium/

and doth I quote:

These mighty warriors scan the battlefield looking for particularly worthy targets. Once an enemy unit fulfils the essential criteria to count as a ‘Nemesis’ unit the Custodes can engage, gaining +1 Attacks, +1 to Charge Rolls, and never needing to roll higher than 4+ to score a Hit – unless that foe is a Primarch.

Except if you read the Nemesis rule itself it says:

A nemesis unit is defined as any enemy unit that fulfills at least one of the following conditions:

* The unit include one or more models with at least one of the following Unit Types or Unit Sub-Types: Primarch....

There might be other rule interactions with Nemesis, but with the way Liber Mechanicum turned out who knows.

**Rihgu**

I'm guessing it means you don't have a minimum roll for success to hit Primarchs, but get the other bonuses.

**Strg Alt**

Platuan4th wrote:
Garro is in the Legacy PDF

Does he have a model?

**AllSeeingSkink**

Strg Alt wrote:
Platuan4th wrote:
Garro is in the Legacy PDF

Does he have a model?