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What I really like about is that it’s a Space Marine that most definitely doesn’t need to bother with such mundane items as mere doors.

Because he’s coming straight through the wall. And there’s not a damned thing you can do about it.

JSG wrote:

 ekwatts wrote:
The MkVI line isn't finished. I want MkVI assault marines. Kinda baffled as to why people are already tired of the original space marine armour. I've been waiting for a MkVI space marine set since... well, probably since the original plastic Imperial Space Marine kit was discontinued! So yeah, give me all the options before moving on to other armour mark kits (I mean, ideally, the assault variants would just be another weapons upgrade kit like the special and heavy weapons boxes so they can be used by the other Mark plastic kits as they come out).

Because it really doesn't fit the Heresy despite GW's retconning/shilling.

Hmm. The original Space marine game set in the Horus Heresy (you may know later editions as Epic) was entirely Mk6 and Mk7 armor.
So, no, it isn't a retcon. Its the original.

Mark 6 was the new armor at the time of the Horus Heresy....

It shouldn't have been out in this great a number, and mixed in along with the other armor ranges. There was discussion in Rogue Trader, 2d edition, and other sources when they talk about the Mark VI availability, and the upkeep.

Here's a snack, to get you going on learning about the armor/ armour.

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Power_Armour#Mark_V_.22Heresy_Armour.22

"Chaos Space Marines can be seen in this armour despite its association with Imperial Space Marines; they captured a significant quantity of the suits on Mars during the Heresy, as well as Mechanicum production facilities, and were therefore able to produce their own Mark VI suits.[1]

Mark VI armour was first issued during the later stages of the Great Crusade, and it was in wide service by the time of the Horus Heresy. And while it may be most associated with forces who employed stealth and infiltration tactics such as the Raven Guard or the Alpha Legion, every Legion was issued with this mobile, relatively lightweight armour mark – even the Iron Warriors, who were well-known for their preference for heavier armour.[51]

By the time of the Siege of Terra, Mark VI was the most numerous pattern in service, the Loyalist Legions defending the Imperial Palace had whole Chapters equipped with Mark VI armour, while the Dark Mechanicum hacked the data vaults of those still loyal to the Emperor to provide the designs to Horus and his forces. With countless Forge Worlds under the control of the Warmaster, production of Mark VI armour continued apace, and the Emperor’s Children in particular used it en masse during the Siege of Terra. The predominance of the Corvus armour would continue well into the Scouring and the present age. [48][51]"

So to be clear, MkVI is a Heresy armour and has always been a Heresy armour.
So glad this topic comes up every single release for HH.

Wait until they remember MkII and MkIII had fixed helmets.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Wait until they remember MkII and MkIII had fixed helmets.

And MkIII is too heavy to use a jump pack

Which is why you strap one to each ankle as well.

Probably.

GW is going for the throat of third party sculpts by making their own sculpts look like non IP infringing not-Marines

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Wait until they remember MkII and MkIII had fixed helmets.

Right? It's almost as if the fluff for this is both inconsistent AND YET easily explained in a satisfying in-universe way.

Mk6 was a heresy armour because there was only mk6 at the time, and the original 6mm armies that came in the Epic-scale Space Marine box set were entirely composed of Mk6 armour.

Sculpting standards being what they were, regular 25-28mm Space Marine power armour was kind of all over the place. Mk6 was kind of a baseline, and the sculptors went wild with different shoulder pads, helmets, greaves, stud placement, etc. Some of this could be retrospectively considered to represent "earlier" marks of armour, like Mk5 and Mk4 (I don't think a "proper" Mk3 or Mk2 was sculpted until a while after the fluff had really solidified around the in-universe evolution and development of power armour).

Mk6 was (MUCH MUCH) later (kind of?) retconned as being a particularly modern and up-to-date, sparkly new version of power armour by the time the Heresy really kicks into gear. I didn't pay too much attention to the Forgeworld range at the time, but I guess this was to give all of the different armour marks they made (or wanted to make, depending on which order the fluff and the resin armour kits came out) a fair chance.

There are hundreds of ways in which you can retrospectively explain anyone being able to get their hands on the new Mk6 suits, heretics or loyalists. I mean, I imagine that the suits were extensively field-tested. In fact, even with the way the Imperium works at the time of the Heresy, you could still imagine the conceptual and testing processes taking decades. Mk2 and 3 suits would be the standard at the outset of the Great Crusade, with Mk4 being the new standard, but Mk6's would have been seeping into the hands of all chapters for years before being rushed through the final stages of development in order to become a new standard during the Heresy itself.

I think the real travesty is that Mk5 in fluff terms has become kind of a "lost" mark, in that it's meant to be kind of a catch-all term for bodged together suits, even though the Mk5 concept is actually pretty solid for most of us who have been in the game for a while. The reason, I suspect, that so many people are so convinced that Mk6 is meant to be this super-rare sight in the Heresy era is the fact that Forgeworld, understandably, really bigged up the Mk2-3-4 suit sets it made, and while the M6 was part of that range, it never seemed as visible. But it was still produced as part of the range, as was the very uniform-looking Mk5 resin kit, too.

So I'd say that, even when the fluff-writers and model-makers were working far more closely together even at Forgeworld, you still had a pretty blatant inconsistency between the fluff for the Mk5 suits, too. But, again, gotta point out: the Mk6 suit was still part of the Horus Heresy V1 resin range, too, so.... it's always been there!

I don't have my Black Books with me, but according to Deliverance Lost, the Raven Guard is the first legion to get issued MKVI, and that is post Istvaan. At the end of the day, it depends of if you respect Alan Blight 's fluff (the big black books that basically codified the Horus Heresy and gave it a real existence), archaeological lore (when MKVI was the Epic amor), or the new retcon made to sell the new boxes
But yeah, MKVI is definitely a Horus Heresy armor, no one should deny that and I don't believe I ever met someone pretending that, the only point is : when did it become widespread ? Well, depends of the version of the lore

That new champion could be a third party sculpt. Not saying it's a bad thing, but it doesn't have the feel of MKIII. I think it's so far away from MKIII that it feels like another blinged MKVI sculpt or a resculpt of one.

Dont need new characters, need my jumpers.

 godardc wrote:
I don't have my Black Books with me, but according to Deliverance Lost, the Raven Guard is the first legion to get formally issued significant numbers of MKVI, and that is post Istvaan.

Four words is all it takes to change the context. I don't even see any of this as all that much of a retcon. I'm not dissing Alan Bligh, he had a perfectly good reason to write the fluff the way he did, but since 40k is just layers of retcon over retcon, with some retcons re-retconning things and retconning retcons, I really don't see why this is all that much of an issue. MkVI being more widespread than Bligh suggested in that one line isn't doing the guy any disrespect at all. I'm pretty sure Bligh was pretty clear and in touch with the spirit of 40k in that regard. The thing with 40k/30k is that we're talking about scales that are kind of absurd and difficult to fully quantify, so making a hard-and-fast statement on how "widespread" something is becomes kind of irrelevant. A minority within thousands upon thousands, if not millions, is still pretty sizeable, right? The Raven Guard receives a legion-wide rollout of a new form of armour? Sure thing. That doesn't mean that the Imperial Fists, Ultramarines, Salamanders or *cough* Alpha Legion cannot/wouldn't already have had several huge divisions of warriors wearing field-tested prototypes, full production models, etc.

Especially for 28mm scale battles that are tiny skirmlsh inside tiny skirmish with epic only barely bigger

 ekwatts wrote:
I think the real travesty is that Mk5 in fluff terms has become kind of a "lost" mark, in that it's meant to be kind of a catch-all term for bodged together suits, even though the Mk5 concept is actually pretty solid for most of us who have been in the game for a while. The reason, I suspect, that so many people are so convinced that Mk6 is meant to be this super-rare sight in the Heresy era is the fact that Forgeworld, understandably, really bigged up the Mk2-3-4 suit sets it made, and while the M6 was part of that range, it never seemed as visible. But it was still produced as part of the range, as was the very uniform-looking Mk5 resin kit, too.

The status of Mk5 is a bit of a bugbear for very many people. Theres a faction here that are erroneously convinced that MK5 was not a real armor mark and was composed of a hodge podge of parts taken from other armor marks and therefore should not get its own kit because the "proper" mk5 is a mix and match of mk 2, 3, 4, and 6. This is despite the fact that most official depictions of mk5 armor its clearly shown that the various components of the armor suit are distinctly different from any of those other armor marks (yeah, the iconic mk5 helmet - which other mark over power armor was that taken from, exactly?). This is despite GW writing and publishing in multiple places (hell, not to long ago they basically dedicated a whole ass article that explicitly made it a point to clarify this) that while MK5 wasn't necessarily fully "standardized" it was in fact a distinctly and separately manufactured mark of power armor with its own separate assembly lines and not just a hodgepodge of pieces cobbled together in the field.

 ekwatts wrote:

 godardc wrote:
I don't have my Black Books with me, but according to Deliverance Lost, the Raven Guard is the first legion to get formally issued significant numbers of MKVI, and that is post Istvaan.

Four words is all it takes to change the context. I don't even see any of this as all that much of a retcon. I'm not dissing Alan Bligh, he had a perfectly good reason to write the fluff the way he did, but since 40k is just layers of retcon over retcon, with some retcons re-retconning things and retconning retcons, I really don't see why this is all that much of an issue. MkVI being more widespread than Bligh suggested in that one line isn't doing the guy any disrespect at all. I'm pretty sure Bligh was pretty clear and in touch with the spirit of 40k in that regard. The thing with 40k/30k is that we're talking about scales that are kind of absurd and difficult to fully quantify, so making a hard-and-fast statement on how "widespread" something is becomes kind of irrelevant. A minority within thousands upon thousands, if not millions, is still pretty sizeable, right? The Raven Guard receives a legion-wide rollout of a new form of armour? Sure thing. That doesn't mean that the Imperial Fists, Ultramarines, Salamanders or *cough* Alpha Legion cannot/wouldn't already have had several huge divisions of warriors wearing field-tested prototypes, full production models, etc.

I don't even really understand the point people are trying to make here. The Raven Guard were the *first* legion to be issued Mk6. That doesn't mean they were the only or the last. Raven Guard were issued it early on in the Heresy, that leaves another what 10+ years for other legions to also receive Mk6 issue? The supposed "retcon" isn't a retcon. Theres fluff saying that Mk6 was in use during the heresy, the original heresy era product line launched with mk6 in the first place, there was clearly no change in fluff or direction that created a "change" in continuity that would be needed to justify calling it a retcon.

chaos0xomega wrote:


I don't even really understand the point people are trying to make here. The Raven Guard were the *first* legion to be issued Mk6. That doesn't mean they were the only or the last. Raven Guard were issued it early on in the Heresy, that leaves another what 10+ years for other legions to also receive Mk6 issue? The supposed "retcon" isn't a retcon. Theres fluff saying that Mk6 was in use during the heresy, the original heresy era product line launched with mk6 in the first place, there was clearly no change in fluff or direction that created a "change" in continuity that would be needed to justify calling it a retcon.

Not to mention that even with Alan Bligh's work on the Black Books and the novels, there's still massive amounts of conflicts, missions, and story gaps that GW can fill in that explains stuff like this. Just because one event is going on at a specific time doesn't mean that's the only thing that is.

I actually quite like the Mk III character, visually different and working well as Mk III "Artificer" armour, that or armour worn by someone who has spent a little too long at the all you can eat breakfast

I also like the lack of bling, looks like armour worn by someone who means business and isn't on a parade

chaos0xomega wrote:

I don't even really understand the point people are trying to make here. The Raven Guard were the *first* legion to be issued Mk6. That doesn't mean they were the only or the last. Raven Guard were issued it early on in the Heresy, that leaves another what 10+ years for other legions to also receive Mk6 issue? The supposed "retcon" isn't a retcon. Theres fluff saying that Mk6 was in use during the heresy, the original heresy era product line launched with mk6 in the first place, there was clearly no change in fluff or direction that created a "change" in continuity that would be needed to justify calling it a retcon.

especially since even in the older versions of the lore, the ravenguard were just the ones who proved how effective it can be, and that other Legions had trialed it before them. all the new lore does is establish exactly how fast it proliferated.

ekwatts wrote:
Sculpting standards being what they were, regular 25-28mm Space Marine power armour was kind of all over the place. Mk6 was kind of a baseline, and the sculptors went wild with different shoulder pads, helmets, greaves, stud placement, etc. Some of this could be retrospectively considered to represent "earlier" marks of armour, like Mk5 and Mk4 (I don't think a "proper" Mk3 or Mk2 was sculpted until a while after the fluff had really solidified around the in-universe evolution and development of power armour).

Mk6 was (MUCH MUCH) later (kind of?) retconned as being a particularly modern and up-to-date, sparkly new version of power armour by the time the Heresy really kicks into gear. I didn't pay too much attention to the Forgeworld range at the time, but I guess this was to give all of the different armour marks they made (or wanted to make, depending on which order the fluff and the resin armour kits came out) a fair chance.

Not that much later. The first White Dwarf article about the history of armour marks was during the Rogue Trader era, with the release of the "historical" set at pretty much the same time.
It's in either the Compendium or the Compilation.

I’m pretty sure I’ve got that White Dwarf, and definitely have its collected version.

Will dig one or both out in a bit.

I'm going to publicly admit that my search-fu isn't strong. I'm working on it, but in the mean time, has there any ANYTHING further about assault marines?

GW showed off a couple rinders awhile back and the road map shows things developing right about now. Have I missed something?

Nothing. As they were slated for winter still to go.

Primarch, dreadnougqt and armour upgrade for autumn.

 Tyranid Horde wrote:
That new champion could be a third party sculpt. Not saying it's a bad thing, but it doesn't have the feel of MKIII. I think it's so far away from MKIII that it feels like another blinged MKVI sculpt or a resculpt of one.

It has a lot of the design cues of the previewed mk.III resculpt, but those resculpts are very different from the mk.III (first resin and then plastic) that defined its look for the entirety of the HH up to this point.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/09/17/sunday-preview-knights-vampires-and-classic-warhammer-40000-terrain/

Variant knights next week.

Archeron and Castigator on pre order next Saturday





Hopefully clears the way for the Mark III/Deredeo box and Fulgrim.

Well the Mk3 box certainly did not come "sooner than I thought"

Nice to have the two of them take up only one release slot tho. Now to choose which to get...

I'd get the flamer one if I had space for something like a knight but alas, knee deep in stuff already.. saving space for Epic Imperialis and KT21S3

Guessing they don't do two 30k weeks in a row so probably 7 October preorder earliest for Fulgrim. So much for the "sooner than you think" "shortly" and "very soon" for the spate of 30k previews over the past few weeks!

Well I made a spreadsheet and Castigator wins hands down as the least bad of the three, bringing almost the firepower of a Sicaran Punisher for only slightly more than twice the cost. Preordered.

Did not expect the Cerastus variants to drop so soon after the Lancer, will have to dig into the reserves for my Acheron then, before it inevitably sells out.