Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I don't think cadres look to be anything remotely similar to the same design as Warcaster's version. They seem far more in line with mercenary design space.

That's how I'm viewing them, too. Maybe, hey, Doom Reavers, Butcher4, Greylord Ternion, Greylord Outriders, Greylord Forge Seer, Fenris.... that seems like a pretty large variety for a cadre.

Again, seeing one will give a lot of information as to what to expect from all of them.

My guess is they'll be all new box sets and unlikely to be made of legacy models, but I also think they're a future design element that probably hasn't been finalized as much as its been a future plan.

Yeah, I bet you're right. I'd like to think there would be a legacy cadre for each legacy faction (to work with their armies), but it may just be that the first cadres will only be for the new stuff.

 LunarSol wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
I would not be surprised for a Greylord cadre in the future, Doom Reavers I am a bit less certain about.

Even before they got combined into a theme for Mk3, Grey Lords have long been the masters holding the Doom Reavers on a leash. They've always been suited well to that "mercenary" kind of place in army design, despite being incredibly fun to spam. I expect the Greylords to be the cadre option, with Doom Reavers as part of that set of options.

I don't think cadres look to be anything remotely similar to the same design as Warcaster's version. They seem far more in line with mercenary design space.

The one hint of what Warmachine Cadres might look like was "Stormsmiths" (implication being that these are new Mk4 Stormsmith models, rather than existing Stormsmith models), and an explanation that they will tend to be "specialists" and support units built around strong central themes rather than something to build the core of an army around. Greylords fit that pretty well, I think, but Doom Reavers stretch that as they are not visually cohesive and thematically consistent with Greylords, in the same way that Man O Wars are not visually cohesive and thematically consistent with Winter Guard.

That's how I'm viewing them, too. Maybe, hey, Doom Reavers, Butcher4, Greylord Ternion, Greylord Outriders, Greylord Forge Seer, Fenris.... that seems like a pretty large variety for a cadre.

It seems unlikely cadres will include warcasters based on the details we have been given. Greylord Forge Seers will likely fall under the Man O War theme. Again though - they haven't been clear that Legacy armies will have cadres at all so basing your idea of what a cadre will look like around the existence of Mk3 models might not be helpful.

It seems unlikely cadres will include warcasters based on the details we have been given. Greylord Forge Seers will likely fall under the Man O War theme. Again though - they haven't been clear that Legacy armies will have cadres at all so basing your idea of what a cadre will look like around the existence of Mk3 models might not be helpful.

Yeah, I wouldn't expect any warcasters (Butcher4 is a solo in my example).

I think you're right about the Forge Seer though, I could see him in the MoW army.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Again though - they haven't been clear that Legacy armies will have cadres at all so basing your idea of what a cadre will look like around the existence of Mk3 models might not be helpful.

That's true... but they do mention in the article (https://home.privateerpress.com/2022/08/18/legacy-armies-in-prime-arena/)

"The larger Faction armies are based on the primary themes running through each Faction but are not based on the Mk III theme forces. These Factions include Circle, Cryx, Cygnar, Khador, Legion, Protectorate, Retribution, Skorne, and Trollbloods. These larger Factions also share small cadres of models and units that are shared between their armies."

I interpret that as the legacy armies having cadres (given the topic of the article), but I suppose it isn't 100% spelled out.

Right, I forgot about him being a solo. Also its less clear what the future holds for Riot Quest minis (like Butcher4) in the game. PP hasn't said much about it other than that they would definitely be playable in "Unlimited".

Locally, we are expecting Archons and Riot Quest minis not to make the transition into Prime, even if they fallThat's how I'm viewing them, too. Maybe, hey, Doom Reavers, Butcher4, Greylord Ternion, Greylord Outapparently riders, Greylord Forge Seer, Fenris.... that seems like a pretty large variety for a cadre. within th concept of a theme (no Bulkhead in "Man O War Army" for example) - some of our guys are well-connected and have inside info, but I don't know. What I'm hearing now about Archons and RQ is coming from some of the same people so I'm inclined to believe it. or where they get their info from, etc. (I heard lots of rumors about mk4 earlier this year, all of which turned out to be true, but I thought it was all bs so didn't think much of it), but


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Asmoridin wrote:


That's true... but they do mention in the article (https://home.privateerpress.com/2022/08/18/legacy-armies-in-prime-arena/)

"The larger Faction armies are based on the primary themes running through each Faction but are not based on the Mk III theme forces. These Factions include Circle, Cryx, Cygnar, Khador, Legion, Protectorate, Retribution, Skorne, and Trollbloods. These larger Factions also share small cadres of models and units that are shared between their armies."

I interpret that as the legacy armies having cadres (given the topic of the article), but I suppose it isn't 100% spelled out.

Yeah, I'm a bit ambivalent about that, as "Khador" is a faction that includes these legacy armies, but also includes the Mk4 Winter Korps. We have been straight up told by PP staff on discord and socials that you will not be able to use Mk3 and Mk4 models together in the same army lists and that there are no Mk4 cadres which will work with the legacy armies in prime - so I know they aren't talking about *new* Mk4 cadres being usable with the legacy armies. To my knowledge nobody has made any definitive statement as to whether there will be Mk3 cadres used only by Mk3 legacy armies.

Yeah, can't say I'd miss the Archons (except maybe for Grymkin). Nor the RQ minis (except the warcasters/warlocks, and Rhul, who probably want the three they have to stick around.)

Whatever they end up deciding will be the way it is, and I'll end up playing regardless, haha.

chaos0xomega wrote:

The one hint of what Warmachine Cadres might look like was "Stormsmiths" (implication being that these are new Mk4 Stormsmith models, rather than existing Stormsmith models), and an explanation that they will tend to be "specialists" and support units built around strong central themes rather than something to build the core of an army around. Greylords fit that pretty well, I think, but Doom Reavers stretch that as they are not visually cohesive and thematically consistent with Greylords, in the same way that Man O Wars are not visually cohesive and thematically consistent with Winter Guard.

Greylords and Doom Reavers both share the screaming face Orgoth relics across their design. The Doom Reaver attachment is a Greylord wizard even and he's from Mk2.

I stand by my statement. The screaming face motif is minor and something that most people will miss or otherwise not notice. Likewise the Greylord Escort is irrelevant - not every Mk3 model will be ported, even if it was part of a theme force or has the relevant keywords. More to the point Koldun Kapitan Valachev is also a Greylord (as are Zerkova and Karchev, technically) and an attachment for mercenary infantry units, would you then expect this cadre to include Valachev and the ability to ally in a merc unit?

IF (emphasis on the if) there was a Mk3 Greylord cadre, then that cadre might simply be Greylord Ternion, Greylord Outriders, and Koldun Lords and it need not be anything more than that.

I mean... Zerkova2 comes with her Doom Cabana Boys, so... I still consider them having a lot of overlap. Given its literally one unit (and a Dragoon) that only has a large presence in the faction because players latches on to FA:U with them, I think they're as much a part of the Greylords as any of the ice wizards.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Khador starter contents. Shocktroopers are concept art:




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Weird they duplicated the standard sculpt and nothing else. Particularly since we've seen a second standard bearer render

Plus, the Doom Reaver UA is a Greylord. They are quite tied together.

New Khador looks great. Could see myself picking it up at some point

I just hope they aren't lazy and made doom reaver and iron fang 'axemen' just to invalidate the older sculpts.

(And I just finished painting 24 old metal ifp's and 13 doom reavers)

In other wmh news I have the following to paint. For no other reason than the models are great!

Trencher warcaster lt.
3 female tharn (birgit, blood witch ua and the solo)
Thyron.

Yesterdays Primecast kinda hinted at what the cadres were going to be - wasn't clear on if it was only for the legacy armies or if the guidelines would also apply to the new Mk4 armies (they did confirm however that legacy cadres will not be usable by mk4 armies and vice versa however, so no mixing) - but they said they would generally each include 5 models, 1 is "always" a gargantuan or colossal (at least for those that have multiple if I understood correctly?), 1 is a battle engine (wasn't clear if this is also an "always" situation), the other 3 will be support models that go into most lists (listing the choir as an example, except the choir is a unit rather than a model, so maybe they really meant "model/unit" rather than "model").

In other words, you are probably not getting a doom reaver cadre. A likely khador cadre would be either Victor or(?) Conquest, either a Gun Carriage, Siege Chariot, or Assault Chariot, greylord ternion, a koldun lord, and I would guess greylord outriders. As Khador has two colossals, I would assume they will have a second cadre with the colossal that wasn't selected in the Greylord cadre, one of the Battle Engines that wasn't selected for the other cadre, and I'm going to guess Widowmaker Scouts, Widowmaker Marksmen, and a Manhunter (as I don't qualify Iron Fangs, Doom Reavers, or Kayazay as being "support" - which would be the only other "themes" I can think of that could potentially fill out a cadre, though they would have to rely on named characters to do so with the exception of the Iron Fangs).

Khador is a bit of an odd one as there's generally very few support models in general. Of the Greylords though I'd expect the Adjunct to make the list. Doubtful on the Outriders, tbh; they are awfully niche to be the kind of generic they were talking about.

Yeah, I think traditionally most of Khadors "support" models came from taking mercs so there aren't good fits for them. Thats why I'm thinking Widowmakers + Manhunter as a second cadre, as the Widowmakers + Manhunter were basically offensive support by way of spot removal against high def targets and doing the whole precision strike thing.

Sorry, fell behind on sharing new sculpts into this thread. We've seen some Winter Guard close ups / new stuff in the last weeks:

Machine Guns, Grenadiers, Rocketeers
Winter Korps Infantry Support Weapons





Winter Korps Standard
Winter Korps Infantry Command Attachment



Mortar Team
Solo



Winter Korps Officer
Solo

Loving the upcoming sculpts. An improvement over the current Winter Guard.

To be fair, metal.rifle korps are excellent models.

Love these for sure, but I lament the loss of their axes. :(

There's some mercenary previews on Twitter. So far it looks like Eillish, Alexia returns with the Witchfire and an ex-Doom Reaver character with Felblade in tow.

And new Khador preview:

https://home.privateerpress.com/2022/09/08/khador-winter-korps-lore-arkanists-volkova/

Arkanists
Support Unit



Magziev Zariyah Volkova
Character Solo

Plot twist - there definitely won't be a Greylord cadre for Mk4 Khador, because the Greylord covenant has been disbanded.

Interesting implications for the Doom Reavers there too since Doom Reavers were basically selected and controlled by the Greylords. I think the apparent ex-Doom Reaver merc probably hints at the idea that the Doom Reavers wee probably outlawed or whatever too.

chaos0xomega wrote:
Plot twist - there definitely won't be a Greylord cadre for Mk4 Khador, because the Greylord covenant has been disbanded.

I'm not 100% if you're hinting at Volkova's background, but here's the blurb in that link:

It was only by the dint of her unquestionable loyalty and willingness to hunt her former compatriots in the service of the empire that Zariyah Volkova escaped the punishments meted out to so many former members of the Greylords Covenant. As a mark of respect for her fierce commitment to the Motherland, Volkova was even allowed to retain her Greylord rank when she was transferred into the Winter Korps. She now serves as one of the few fully trained battle wizards within the Korps, service she relishes with every fiber of her existence.

 Boss Salvage wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
Plot twist - there definitely won't be a Greylord cadre for Mk4 Khador, because the Greylord covenant has been disbanded.

I'm not 100% if you're hinting at Volkova's background, but here's the blurb in that link:

It was only by the dint of her unquestionable loyalty and willingness to hunt her former compatriots in the service of the empire that Zariyah Volkova escaped the punishments meted out to so many former members of the Greylords Covenant. As a mark of respect for her fierce commitment to the Motherland, Volkova was even allowed to retain her Greylord rank when she was transferred into the Winter Korps. She now serves as one of the few fully trained battle wizards within the Korps, service she relishes with every fiber of her existence.

I'm not really hinting, and also more directly referring to what is literally the first sentence of the first paragraph of the article:

Following revelations shared by the Order of Illumination of widespread infernal corruption and treachery throughout the Greylords Covenant, the organization was summarily disbanded by imperial edict in 618 AR, and the majority of its membership was sentenced to prison or death. Those spared such punishment were tasked with rebuilding the arcane assets of the empire. With so many Khadoran citizens blessed with Gift of Magic now either confined or facing imminent execution, Khador’s surviving arcane practitioners sought to create new tools to allow even the uninitiated to work simple arcane formulae. Thus, the Arkanists of the Winter Korps were born.

Khador can't have a Greylord cadre if Greylords don't exist. There is low likelihood for Winter Korps Arkanists as a cadre, because uhh... those are going in the Winter Korps army and thus rationally won't also form a separate cadre of models.

I'm used to folx knowing a LOT more about WMH background then I do, so thought maybe you were referencing something that happened in a prior publication In which case the blurb in that article would have been amazingly timed with your post. Turned out you just ninja'd me on reading the same open tab as you.

lol yeah I was just referencing the article, sorry if there was confusion

Greylords have definitely gone the way of Retribution.

I do like the fact they have bottled razor wind.

Very refreshing. :p if you add mentos to it does it become obliteration instead?

The new Razor Wind is obliteration enough as is.

I wonder if the Merc with the fellblade might be Zerkova. She appears to have a similar scar.