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$2.5 mil stretch goal is a digital novel

Update on the 'Force Pack/not ForcePack' subject

Clarification for everyone!

Apologies for the confusion regarding Battlefield Support Packs and whether or not they can be chosen as part of your pledge tiers as a "Forcepack: Mercenaries".

There was confusion and miscommunication behind the lines, as it were, and wires got crossed. We've been informing (and wrote in the last update pre-edit) backers that no, those were not a choice. However, we were wrong. They are, in fact, a part of that choice. The only thing that's not is the Battlefield Support Deck.

Apologies, this has been far more hectic than we could have ever dreamed.

Note on the Battlefield Support: Battle & Fire Lances ForcePack:

Included inside are two Manticore Heavy Tanks, and two Vedette Medium Tanks, along with two LRM Carriers and two SRM Carriers (with enough turrets to make four of either one)—no assembly required—along with eight Battlefield Support cards and eight Alpha Strike cards. Perfect for BattleTech and Alpha Strike action!

by now the only thing that would make sense for me if the crack the larger numbers would be going for translations of the rules (French, German, Spanish version)

Allowing for their ethos so far maybe this is not a correction but a heavy backtrack.

Catalyst were getting greedy because they were getting massive funding without having to offer any tangible pledge rewards over the basic pledge level. So why add value if you get paid anyway?

Meanwhile people were doing the maths.

I had not even realised that vehicles were not included as the 'Support Packs' were listed amongst the 'Force Packs' and there was no clarity on what was acceptable.

What makes it bad is that Support packs were showcased on the pledge levels themselves.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ghaz wrote:


Note on the Battlefield Support: Battle & Fire Lances ForcePack:

Included inside are two Manticore Heavy Tanks, and two Vedette Medium Tanks, along with two LRM Carriers and two SRM Carriers (with enough turrets to make four of either one)—no assembly required—along with eight Battlefield Support cards and eight Alpha Strike cards. Perfect for BattleTech and Alpha Strike action!

I noticed that in the intro video.

Hey, that's pretty cool.

It's a shame that the Vedette is with that pack. Had it been two Bulldogs, I could replace my IWM armored company on a 1:1 scale.

Well, the new car smell and hype is wearing off already in the comments section.

CGL employees have noted they are hearing the dissent and will bring it up to people up the chain.

Starting to smell a little bit like Robotech RPG up in there.

Lots of pledge rollback talk.

Ha yeah the comments are great - gettin spicy

I did note a response again denying they would do the double forcepacks request but that they were "hearing the disillusionment" and talking to "upper management"

I think it is going to do just fine and they are going to make bank either way but I guess we shall see - all part of the Kickstarter "fun"

I see little reason for myself to back this, even at the recruit level. As I already have 2 beginner boxes and if I wanted a third I could get one for 20-25 bucks right now as opposed to 35 plus shipping from this KS. I think i'll wait and grab a lot of this stuff when it hits the shelves with the lgs discount later next year.

The veteran level is like a glorified full price pre order. The 4 inch timber wolf is of no use to me and the challenge coin can go in the trash bin. Now if they had put in one of those upscaled redone elemental armors as a shelf piece instead, now that'd be something worth considering.

Well the latest seems to be confusion about import duties, the pledge levels say this will be paid in pledge manager ( so even more expensive than just VAT, Shipping) but there has been some comments about shipping from an EU hub to avoid VAT, (which is illegal, so hope they meant duties).

Edit, just as I posted they confirmed EU/UK duties will be covered by catalyst, but customers have to pay VAT, so standard KS stuff.

That’s another salvage box for vet and above and force pack for battalion up.

I get the feeling they will drip feed in like this until the major grumbling stops

I think for a company pledge, PMM is between 4.80 and 6 now.

Battalion between 3.76 and 5.28. They want the battalion to be the one to go for dont they.

The $275 was really the hotspot last time according to the spreadsheets during the last KS.

I don't have an issue with that, and didn't then, if it's worth it like last time.

just taking the numbers, the average is 251$, so I guess the 275 will be the hotspot this time as well

Finally a bonus Force Pack, for Battalion and above at 3 million.

It is still only a shuffle in the right direction.

Sad. I was really hyped for this KS, first time in years, but they are just pretending value by giving out novelty stuff that I am not interested in. Going just by the miniatures and gameplay components, I am looking at retail + roundabout 20% cost as of now, taking the 275$ pledge.
That is pretty bad.
Luckily there is nothing that could trigger FOMO right now, so maybe I'll stay there or just get a few choice Forcepacks where I fear they might sell out fast in retail.

They also just clearly explained in some update comment, that they will deffinitely not do double-forces.

For a fair deal I would have happily thrown a few hundred bucks at them, but this will be far, far less.

Maybe some PDF supplements at least? Spot on mercenary XYZ? Turning point XYZ? Old stuff even? Pretty Steiner please?

I'm still in the "not enough value" camp, but keeping an eye out as things progress.

I can only encourage people to post in the comments section now.

CGL took a tiny step in response to the comments, so we know they are at least looking at them.

Maybe just not fully listening yet.

Not something I need to pledge for, but its already plenty successful and I'll be happy to pick up some product for later if there's packs I want.

Downloaded stories don't give me any enthusiasm.
Catalyst shovel out some short stories and call it a stretchgoal.

If they want to offer us sweet nothings do it properly.

For the novels try audiobooks.

Otherwise give us .pdf files of old FASA sourcebooks.

MaleficentRuler wrote:
Well the latest seems to be confusion about import duties, the pledge levels say this will be paid in pledge manager ( so even more expensive than just VAT, Shipping) but there has been some comments about shipping from an EU hub to avoid VAT, (which is illegal, so hope they meant duties).

Edit, just as I posted they confirmed EU/UK duties will be covered by catalyst, but customers have to pay VAT, so standard KS stuff.

Well, that settles it, no way I'm gonna go in then.

There are multiple hubs so many regions will not have import tariffs. In this Catalyst has been diligent and deserve some credit.

The hubs listed are USA, Canada, UK, EU, Asia and Australia. We need some clarity on the Asian hub as Asia is not a tariff region.

No import duties does make a massive difference especially as import duties come with fees claimed by the importers. Fed Ex and UPS are notorious for the gouge they add as handling fees for items they are already paid to handle.

However all this melts away because we are paying full retail, in some cases more for the pledge items and that is without VAT on top.
These prices are looking horribly uncompetitive compared to retail, especially as retail is normally discounted and this is full price PLUS 20% extra.

This afternoon I just backed, it is a 28 day run so I could afford to pledge now, work it all out later. The more I work out the less good this deal is. I will keep commenting, when the pledges dwindle I will maker price comparisons and if rthey are still unfavourable petition for double Force Packs. I know they have already talked out those, but it may well be double or nothing.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Albertorius wrote:

MaleficentRuler wrote:
Well the latest seems to be confusion about import duties, the pledge levels say this will be paid in pledge manager ( so even more expensive than just VAT, Shipping) but there has been some comments about shipping from an EU hub to avoid VAT, (which is illegal, so hope they meant duties).

Edit, just as I posted they confirmed EU/UK duties will be covered by catalyst, but customers have to pay VAT, so standard KS stuff.

Well, that settles it, no way I'm gonna go in then.

Pledge now, at any workable pledge level, to be eligible for the Visigoth, you have 27 more days to work out whether it is worth staying.
You are not committed until the campaign ends.

Because I hate myself, I have been chatting all over, and have mentioned in multiple places that people in the U.S. can get any current non-Exclusive Forcepack for $15 to $26.

CGL is really going to need to move the marker. It's not worth DOUBLE the cost to get it 4 months earlier and so Randall Bills can "support local FLGS" by not undercutting them.

He gets his money either way, he just gets MORE if you use the KS.

GW Direct Order Only anyone?

 TalonZahn wrote:
Because I hate myself, I have been chatting all over, and have mentioned in multiple places that people in the U.S. can get any current non-Exclusive Forcepack for $15 to $26.

CGL is really going to need to move the marker. It's not worth DOUBLE the cost to get it 4 months earlier and so Randall Bills can "support local FLGS" by not undercutting them.

He gets his money either way, he just gets MORE if you use the KS.

GW Direct Order Only anyone?

I realize you're having a grand time commenting all over the internet, but we already know that the MSRP of the new packs is going to be higher so the fact that you can get old packs for cheaper plus retailer discount isn't really relevant. If getting the stuff earlier with fun bonuses isn't valuable to you, then wait for retail. The KS FAQ itself says exactly this.

 Flinty wrote:
Well, they've got a couple of weeks to crash together something to encourage higher spending in the currently pledged bods.

They need to do something. Two of the things I would naturally add - the two map packs - are now free for a certain pledge level... so I have no reason to add funds.

They're not offering 'Mechs from boxed games as separate purchases... so I have no reason to add funds.

They're not offering the newer non-KS force packs as separate purchases... so I have no reason to add funds.

They're not doing T-shirts via the KS... so I have no reason to add funds.

Free fiction doesn't cut it, I'm afraid.

 frankelee wrote:
So not a snowball's chance in Hell that it makes it to Frosthaven levels.

Does that matter?

Considering they are heading toward $3Million I don't think they are hurting for funding right now

If by "fun bonuses" you mean throwaway items that sit on a shelf and digital stories you'll read once.... you might need a new definition of "fun" and "bonus".

I guess you can play with your patches and tokens. I'd guess they are sitting in a box somewhere.

Where's the MSRP posted in the FAQ? It's not. But if you look at the Add-On cost on your pledge.... the prices are the same as the current ones. $30 MSRP.

Only the Vehicle ones are $35.

{Edit} Of course the price is relevant, we're literally discussing PPM here.

 Orlanth wrote:
Finally a bonus Force Pack, for Battalion and above at 3 million.

And if we don't want duplicates, how does this help?

 Overread wrote:
Considering they are heading toward $3Million I don't think they are hurting for funding right now

Agreed, but people are fickle. They have leveraged a great deal of community goodwill and excitement for the kick off, but once the euphoria fades, and the 28days start to tick by they need to avoid backers getting cold feet. Amd there is no further road map for people to get excited about. Regardless of whether or not they had already sorted all of the stretch goals, it gave something for people to get excited about. But now there is nothing to stretch for and the pledges are less generous than the previous campaign.

I am by no means an expert in retail, kickstarting or psychology, but surely there are a few red flags kicking in.

For me red flags are companies that overpromise on extras and addons without any game plan or evident proof that they can do what they say they will.

A company not bending over backwards to shower you with free stuff is just, honestly, normal. If anything its a positive in my view because it says that they are playing it safe and want to stick to their deadlines and schedule and production investment plans.

A company just showing extra stuff is a panic and a worry because it means they are increasing their costs but not their profits; that CAN mean that they hit payment issues, cashflow shortages and suffer because of the extended production time due to having so many customers and so much additional content and having so little profit overhead.


I think some firms have a setup that realises that the "golden days" of KS offering so much so cheap have backlashes.
Retail stores dislike it greatly because customers come pre-loaded with super low price expectations; they also buy a glut in the KS and then nothing for retail. If the prices are closer to equal then yes there's less pressure to go for the KS, but people will to be first. However it means that stores aren't being undercut and the market isn't being flooded with cheap stuff as much (which can lurk around on ebay and such for ages).


I do agree that with 29 days it can be a risk (many KS are now only 2 weeks long because that's basically fitting with the high first and last days and having less middle-row thinking and pulling out).
However they've nearly hit 3 million - they'd have to make some serious massive huge errors to see that drop dramatically (that or an outside influence like a global disaster)

Just hit $3 million with 11K backers.

I think it's a good thing that they haven't got a list of 100 "stretch goals" that amount to little more than concept art and promise of "We'll make it eventually... I guess!", but what we've got here seems very much the opposite.

"Here's what we made. Keep pledging and we'll unlock pins and other crap."

I don't want pins and other crap. I wasn't something of value.

 Ghaz wrote:
Just hit $3 million with 11K backers.

Well where are the other 4k that signed up in the survey?!

That's another $1 million missing dollars!!