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No starter set is an odd choice hopefully there will be at least be an army set for each, it kind of suits me anyway as Khemri doesn't interest me but I want to completely redo my Brettonian army now that I've had years more painting practice - but I intend to round base and use movement trays can't go back to squares now. Liking the foot Paladin, resin isn't a problem so long as it's well cast.

So far I like these models. I was afraid, that they move away too much from 6-8th aesthetich, but these fit to the old minis enought, that they wont stand out, but still having some freshness in them aswell.
The material is another thing... I dont like resin to put it in a polite manner, that said, if the troops remain the old WHFB plastics, I wont complain much. On that topic of troops, I am happy that not just the plastic kits are comming back. There are some metals that I wanted to pick up.

No starter set means no cheap core.

Also, is that Paladin a manlet, or is the Tomb King a giant?

 DaveC wrote:
No starter set is an odd choice hopefully there will be at least be an army set for each, it kind of suits me anyway as Khemri doesn't interest me but I want to completely redo my Brettonian army now that I've had years more painting practice - but I intend to round base and use movement trays can't go back to squares now. Liking the foot Paladin, resin isn't a problem so long as it's well cast.

I don't know exactly how their shipping & handling procedures work and how their plants are set up, but if TOW has e.g. characters in resin and regiments in plastic for the most part, with added resin stuff for some monsters etc., it might not even be (economically) feasible to package all of that in a starter set at an acceptable price point. Other than doing a 'virtual' set where the purchases are packaged and shipped separately, and you just get a bundle discount, that is.

Fairly cool paladin with some bags and equipment. Detailed and yet grounded. Also liked his two heads.

Never had much feeling for TK.

But very lackluster warhammer fest reveal. Give us a date.

 DaveC wrote:
No starter set is an odd choice hopefully there will be at least be an army set for each, it kind of suits me anyway as Khemri doesn't interest me but I want to completely redo my Brettonian army now that I've had years more painting practice - but I intend to round base and use movement trays can't go back to squares now. Liking the foot Paladin, resin isn't a problem so long as it's well cast.

I'd guess they couldn't put together 'metrics' on what combination of armies would sell well enough to make a starter set worthwhile.

Not impressed by their approach here. Not just the lack of a starter, but resin characters, an unclear release model, and so forth. They should have left these two models as a teaser, and not done a 'preview' if this muddle is all they had to offer.

Yeah, this kinda smells like GW decided they don't actually want to do ToW, but since they announced it, they're putting something out. If the mess sticks, they might put some effort into it later.

Not feeling this approach for what should be a major franchise pillar of the company.

 kodos wrote:
So they are really doing the worst we expected?

bringing back old models and mix in some new ones
I guess they showed up the old Bretonnia models in the last article because they are going to stay

cannot wait on GW selling the 30 year old skeleton kit and people praising it as the best one that was ever released by any company and totally wort the 40€ for 10 models /s

Honestly? I would buy the old skeleton set (though not for what GW would charge for it). I'm a big softie for nostalgia and I cut my teeth on the Warhammer of the late 90's . Not everything has to be a hyper-detailed CAD model.

 His Master's Voice wrote:
No starter set means no cheap core.

Also, is that Paladin a manlet, or is the Tomb King a giant?

Assume the latter. The 8th ed Tomb Kings update saw embiggened Tomb Guard (and characters) to set a standard that pretty much looked like that, a head taller than normal people.

It's quite possible that the Paladin stands taller than old Bretonnians and still looks like a midget.

 Geifer wrote:

 His Master's Voice wrote:
No starter set means no cheap core.

Also, is that Paladin a manlet, or is the Tomb King a giant?

Assume the latter. The 8th ed Tomb Kings update saw embiggened Tomb Guard (and characters) to set a standard that pretty much looked like that, a head taller than normal people.

It's quite possible that the Paladin stands taller than old Bretonnians and still looks like a midget.

Its also entirely possible that they didn't coordinate a scale and the sculptors didn't talk.

More and more I am convinced the ToW is nothing but vaporware that was hurriedly concocted to try and draw people away from Kings of War, without any real substance or intent behind it. No starter set kills any chance it would have at drawing in new players, and all they seem willing to offer WHFB enthusiasts is a handful of rubbish resin models (that Tomb King is embarassing). Reviving some of the old ranges at least gives some options back to those who had or wanted TK or Bretonnian armies back in the day, but I dread to think how much they'll charge for them now.
So far, an abject failure that shows no sign of life at all.

Voss wrote:

 Geifer wrote:

 His Master's Voice wrote:
No starter set means no cheap core.

Also, is that Paladin a manlet, or is the Tomb King a giant?

Assume the latter. The 8th ed Tomb Kings update saw embiggened Tomb Guard (and characters) to set a standard that pretty much looked like that, a head taller than normal people.

It's quite possible that the Paladin stands taller than old Bretonnians and still looks like a midget.

Its also entirely possible that they didn't coordinate a scale and the sculptors didn't talk.

That's a given at GW. I wouldn't even trust the same sculptor to coordinate scale with himself, honestly.

Voss wrote:

 DaveC wrote:
No starter set is an odd choice hopefully there will be at least be an army set for each, it kind of suits me anyway as Khemri doesn't interest me but I want to completely redo my Brettonian army now that I've had years more painting practice - but I intend to round base and use movement trays can't go back to squares now. Liking the foot Paladin, resin isn't a problem so long as it's well cast.

I'd guess they couldn't put together 'metrics' on what combination of armies would sell well enough to make a starter set worthwhile.

Not impressed by their approach here. Not just the lack of a starter, but resin characters, an unclear release model, and so forth. They should have left these two models as a teaser, and not done a 'preview' if this muddle is all they had to offer.

My overall impression so far is that they'd fared much better if they had just left out TOW and MESBG, added in a BL seminar, and cut the whole thing by a day. That way, they'd have had a much tighter series of hits on each day instead of this drawn-out and lacklustre affair. Objectively, they're not even showing that little, it's a solid lineup, but because it's spread over three days and has MESBG and TOW as clear duds in between it seems worse than it really is.

 MalusCalibur wrote:
More and more I am convinced the ToW is nothing but vaporware that was hurriedly concocted to try and draw people away from Kings of War, without any real substance or intent behind it. No starter set kills any chance it would have at drawing in new players, and all they seem willing to offer WHFB enthusiasts is a handful of rubbish resin models (that Tomb King is embarassing). Reviving some of the old ranges at least gives some options back to those who had or wanted TK or Bretonnian armies back in the day, but I dread to think how much they'll charge for them now.
So far, an abject failure that shows no sign of life at all.

This is my impression as well. Cash in on the people who did not manage to complete their factions back when it all went down the gakker, add a few overpriced FW characters and call it a day. I can't say I'm thrilled with that outlook, but it's better than nothing. TK and Brets will be cheaper than eBay prices, so that's a positive.

 kodos wrote:
So they are really doing the worst we expected?

bringing back old models and mix in some new ones
I guess they showed up the old Bretonnia models in the last article because they are going to stay

cannot wait on GW selling the 30 year old skeleton kit and people praising it as the best one that was ever released by any company and totally wort the 40€ for 10 models /s

Well it was that or start with 2 factions to play with and expand slowly.

Guess you would have prefered that? Empire vs chaos(humans) and then rest later?

 Platuan4th wrote:

Tsagualsa wrote:

 Flashman wrote:


Also, Old World got the biggest cheer and chants of "We want more!"

Interesting, the twitch stream chat was very bitter about it and repeatedly said it should just stay dead... very rude community there overall.

Typical Twitch chat of whiny babies. Lots of crying about resin releases despite it being very clear from the beginning that this was the Fantasy "Horus Heresy".

You've seen the amount of bitching in the HH thread whenever a model/upgrade kit is confirmed as resin, right? Some people really need to grow the feth up.

BertBert wrote:

 MalusCalibur wrote:
More and more I am convinced the ToW is nothing but vaporware that was hurriedly concocted to try and draw people away from Kings of War, without any real substance or intent behind it. No starter set kills any chance it would have at drawing in new players, and all they seem willing to offer WHFB enthusiasts is a handful of rubbish resin models (that Tomb King is embarassing). Reviving some of the old ranges at least gives some options back to those who had or wanted TK or Bretonnian armies back in the day, but I dread to think how much they'll charge for them now.
So far, an abject failure that shows no sign of life at all.

This is my impression as well. Cash in on the people who did not manage to complete their factions back when it all went down the gakker, add a few overpriced FW characters and call it a day. I can't say I'm thrilled with that outlook, but it's better than nothing. TK and Brets will be cheaper than eBay prices, so that's a positive.

It starts to look like some of the conspiracy theories that they're just putting out the minimal viable product to give some of their registered designs and trademarks another decade or two before they're expiring aren't that far off the mark.

tneva82 wrote:

 kodos wrote:
So they are really doing the worst we expected?

bringing back old models and mix in some new ones
I guess they showed up the old Bretonnia models in the last article because they are going to stay

cannot wait on GW selling the 30 year old skeleton kit and people praising it as the best one that was ever released by any company and totally wort the 40€ for 10 models /s

Well it was that or start with 2 factions to play with and expand slowly.

Guess you would have prefered that? Empire vs chaos(humans) and then rest later?

At least Chaos has cross-system uses, including legacy games like e.g. Mordheim that have living communities still, or for things like WHFRP. Both of these can always use more Empire characters as well. Bretonnia is so-so, but Khemri is one of the more outlandish factions and can barely fit in anywhere else. Even Lizardmen have more off-label use right now.

So far, there hasn't been much said about TOW that I find surprising, it's basically all "I told you so" levels of what I expected.

Actually I do find it surprising that there's no starter set, though from what I have seen/heard it sounds kind of like GW is launching TOW in 2 phases - phase 1 is core rules and legacy rules/models, phase 2 will come after which is focusing on the time of three emperors narrative. That phase 2 is expected out later, and I bet THAT is when a starter with new plastics will drop.

chaos0xomega wrote:
So far, there hasn't been much said about TOW that I find surprising, it's basically all "I told you so" levels of what I expected.

Actually I do find it surprising that there's no starter set, though from what I have seen/heard it sounds kind of like GW is launching TOW in 2 phases - phase 1 is core rules and legacy rules/models, phase 2 will come after which is focusing on the time of three emperors narrative. That phase 2 is expected out later, and I bet THAT is when a starter with new plastics will drop.

Maybe there's something to the rumours about reprints for Island of Blood and Battle for Skull Pass - these are pure plastic products, so they could crank them out without any S&H problems, and they're very popular boxes from what i gather.

I'm a bit surprised, seems my level of appreciation of TOW stream is a bit higher than the Dakkadakka average once for a change.

 His Master's Voice wrote:
Yeah, this kinda smells like GW decided they don't actually want to do ToW, but since they announced it, they're putting something out. If the mess sticks, they might put some effort into it later.

Not feeling this approach for what should be a major franchise pillar of the company.

Yea I'm real squeamish on this. This may end up a garage game and not something that has real consistent attention. If they phone in the rules it's pretty much dead for me.

tneva82 wrote:
Guess you would have prefered that? Empire vs chaos(humans) and then rest later?

That would at least lure new players in with fresh plastic and let everyone who already has an army play along, while waiting for their army to get an update.

I don't see the approach they picked drive new people to the system and the grognards aren't going to keep it alive tomorrow, if they couldn't yesterday.

I’m not sold on the Paladin. In resin, I’m going to hope that the sword/pile o junk he is carrying is a separate piece (it almost has to be, right?).

When I first saw it, I thought he was carrying a lantern in his left hand, then I thought he had three arms. It took me a bit to see through all the stuff tacked on.

And, come on, he is a knight, right? Where is the squire? Why is he a Paladin and torchbearer and pack mule?

That being said, I can dump that terrible backpack whatever it is, give him a shield somewhere, and clean it up into a proper Noble (depending entirely on price, of course).

Lack of a starter set means it will be difficult to attract new players.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
I'm a bit surprised, seems my level of appreciation of TOW stream is a bit higher than the Dakkadakka average once for a change.

It's pretty focused with lots of unspecific "stuff is coming". I can appreciate it because I'm specifically interested in what's going on with Tomb Kings, but I can see how the wider audience didn't get much out of it.

What are the takeaways, really? It'll release at an as of yet unannounced, even unhinted point in time. New stuff isn't all plastic. Whenever it comes out, two niche armies are first. I don't think any of that is very exciting for most people who are looking forward to the old setting coming back.

 Cruentus wrote:


And, come on, he is a knight, right? Where is the squire? Why is he a Paladin and torchbearer and pack mule?

iirc they mentioned that he's supposed to be a questing knight, which would explain that part.

 Geifer wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
I'm a bit surprised, seems my level of appreciation of TOW stream is a bit higher than the Dakkadakka average once for a change.

It's pretty focused with lots of unspecific "stuff is coming". I can appreciate it because I'm specifically interested in what's going on with Tomb Kings, but I can see how the wider audience didn't get much out of it.

What are the takeaways, really? It'll release at an as of yet unannounced, even unhinted point in time. New stuff isn't all plastic. Whenever it comes out, two niche armies are first. I don't think any of that is very exciting for most people who are looking forward to the old setting coming back.

+

There are 'Army book equivalents', whatever that means in practice.

I think this one stream in particular would have really, really benefitted from keeping the video going through the Q&A session. Since they did not, it will all come down to hearsay and chinese whispers in the community.

Tsagualsa wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
So far, there hasn't been much said about TOW that I find surprising, it's basically all "I told you so" levels of what I expected.

Actually I do find it surprising that there's no starter set, though from what I have seen/heard it sounds kind of like GW is launching TOW in 2 phases - phase 1 is core rules and legacy rules/models, phase 2 will come after which is focusing on the time of three emperors narrative. That phase 2 is expected out later, and I bet THAT is when a starter with new plastics will drop.

Maybe there's something to the rumours about reprints for Island of Blood and Battle for Skull Pass - these are pure plastic products, so they could crank them out without any S&H problems, and they're very popular boxes from what i gather.

I'll do backflips if they reprint Island of Blood at a reasonable price.

 BertBert wrote:

Tsagualsa wrote:

 Flashman wrote:


Also, Old World got the biggest cheer and chants of "We want more!"

Interesting, the twitch stream chat was very bitter about it and repeatedly said it should just stay dead... very rude community there overall.

That's just the usual damage control / antagonism from bad actors. Hardcore AoS fans want to see ToW crash and burn, and the other side wants to see AoS replaced by ToW. Best to not pay attention to these shitters in the first place.

*TOW, O is capitlized.

 Cruentus wrote:
I’m not sold on the Paladin. In resin, I’m going to hope that the sword/pile o junk he is carrying is a separate piece (it almost has to be, right?).

When I first saw it, I thought he was carrying a lantern in his left hand, then I thought he had three arms. It took me a bit to see through all the stuff tacked on.

And, come on, he is a knight, right? Where is the squire? Why is he a Paladin and torchbearer and pack mule?

That being said, I can dump that terrible backpack whatever it is, give him a shield somewhere, and clean it up into a proper Noble (depending entirely on price, of course).

From what I recall, Paladins were grail knights who lived alone in the grail chapels throughout Bretonnia. They had no squires because they lived to serve the Lady rather than being in charge of a barony or dukedom.