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 Daedalus81 wrote:

Voss wrote:
GW created the expectation they'd have something significant to say, and then just... didn't.

This is the only thing I could find them mentioning it:

There’s plenty more to come from development diaries in the future – and you may just hear even more at Warhammer Fest, which kicks off on Saturday the 29th of April.

I think the rest is wishlisting by the community and rumormongers. My own particular disappointment is self-inflicted. Fantasy was my jam well before 40K and I just can't get into AoS.

GW put it on the official schedule for the event, and put it up on their website. I'm not sure what level of proof you're going to demand if you don't think 'Hey we're absolutely going to talk about The Old World' is evidence that they planned and announced they were going to talk about the Old World.


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 Aenar wrote:

caladancid wrote:
Skaven and Ogres have brand new plastic ranges do they?

Skaven are still sold in AoS so they are considered a pretty decent range, it doesn't need a refresh to be sold under the TOW brand again.
Ogres have plenty of new stuff compatible with TOW, I think they are called Ogors now.

Ogres are, barring a few (2?) characters (one of which is very bad), entirely the 8th edition range.
Skaven still have old monkey skaven night runners from 5th or 6th edition, the fairly bad rat ogres/giant rats, plague monks and a lot of metal, particularly for Skryre stuff. They're still coasting on Isle of Blood era models and a few End Times things.

 Paymaster Games wrote:
I am hoping to play Warhammer in the stores again. It is hard to do when are using a dead version of the game. I really do hope that the Old World is going to be the game they told us it would be.

Too bad you don't live close to Indiana; we've been hosting a 6th Edition play date every month and will be doing so for the foreseeable future.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Voss wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Voss wrote:
GW created the expectation they'd have something significant to say, and then just... didn't.

This is the only thing I could find them mentioning it:

There’s plenty more to come from development diaries in the future – and you may just hear even more at Warhammer Fest, which kicks off on Saturday the 29th of April.

I think the rest is wishlisting by the community and rumormongers. My own particular disappointment is self-inflicted. Fantasy was my jam well before 40K and I just can't get into AoS.

GW put it on the official schedule for the event, and put it up on their website. I'm not sure what level of proof you're going to demand if you don't think 'Hey we're absolutely going to talk about The Old World' is evidence that they planned and announced they were going to talk about the Old World.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Aenar wrote:

caladancid wrote:
Skaven and Ogres have brand new plastic ranges do they?

Skaven are still sold in AoS so they are considered a pretty decent range, it doesn't need a refresh to be sold under the TOW brand again.
Ogres have plenty of new stuff compatible with TOW, I think they are called Ogors now.

Ogres are, barring a few (2?) characters (one of which is very bad), entirely the 8th edition range.
Skaven still have old monkey skaven night runners from 5th or 6th edition, the fairly bad rat ogres/giant rats, plague monks and a lot of metal, particularly for Skryre stuff. They're still coasting on Isle of Blood era models and a few End Times things.

Alright, I'll bite: what exactly is wrong with either the Rat Ogre or Plague Monk kits?

What is wrong with the Rat Ogre Kit?

everything, for 35€ (2 rat ogres):

It's a relic from an ancient era.

I mean, I expect it to have pivot joints and points of articulation like a toy with joint gaps that big...

Given some of the models still in production I'd say it isn't THAT bad. The price? They're awful across the board.

 streetsamurai wrote:
The tomb king is a really nice model, but it being resin does seems to imply that as i feared, this will be a low investment affaire

All plastic was never on cards. You are going to get new resin as well as new plastic. Tough. Life is. Gw is for profit and not charity. Deal with it.

Voss wrote:


GW put it on the official schedule for the event, and put it up on their website. I'm not sure what level of proof you're going to demand if you don't think 'Hey we're absolutely going to talk about The Old World' is evidence that they planned and announced they were going to talk about the Old World.

Well, to be fair, they did so for LotR too, and that turned out to be a Seminar which literally consisted of the Sentence 'Our hands are tied and we can't tell you anything at the moment, but at least we have one display miniature to show you' and then some stale hype about that single display miniature. Total waste of time.

On the Plaguemonks?

As sculpts I guess they’re OK. They are a little plain and dull, but as they’re meant to be riddled with disease I would expect dynamic poses.

The kit however? I have never owned a box without quite significant mould slippage. Not just prominent mould lines, but actually slippage. Like the mould never actually lined up properly.

No it’s not too much of a challenge to fix, but it’s well beyond the realms of something I should have to fix.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
On the Plaguemonks?

As sculpts I guess they’re OK. They are a little plain and dull, but as they’re meant to be riddled with disease I would expect dynamic poses.

The kit however? I have never owned a box without quite significant mould slippage. Not just prominent mould lines, but actually slippage. Like the mould never actually lined up properly.

No it’s not too much of a challenge to fix, but it’s well beyond the realms of something I should have to fix.

The kit is now what, twenty years old? IIRC it came out with the 6th edition book in 2002, or was that with the Lustria Campaign Book in 2004? Either way it's a little over or a little under two decades. And i'd imagine that it's among those that see rather more wear and tear, the unit was quite popular in several incarnations of the game.

tneva82 wrote:

 streetsamurai wrote:
The tomb king is a really nice model, but it being resin does seems to imply that as i feared, this will be a low investment affaire

All plastic was never on cards. You are going to get new resin as well as new plastic. Tough. Life is. Gw is for profit and not charity. Deal with it.

Then maybe they should stop selling their resin trash. If you read the comments on videos about new model releases you'll see about 90% of people will just not pay for resin no matter how great the model is.
I want a fleet of ridge/iron crawlers for Necromunda but once they revealed the upgrade was a FW kit it was dead in the water.
They lose thousands if not hundreds of thousands in sales limiting items to resin.
GW is for profit but they're not exactly about selling as many models as possible. We're that the case they would actually be ready for their release dates and would do proper preorders.
Perhaps the non-resin crowd is move vocal that people willing to work with inferior garbage. So you just don't hear people talking about their resin kits very often.
No one plays Necromunda in my area because of the resin upgrades. No one plays anything other than plastic HH models. No one really plays titans... They might own one or two (or in one guys case an entire friggin Legio) but they don't actually use them.
Resin needs to be removed from all of GWs products ASAP.

resin is a super material. Its just GW that does not actually really do quality resin. (or affordable one for that matter).


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My main concern is availability and affordability. If the game is expected to actually grow enough and be relevant again, then GW would need to price even more humanly than they do with plastic HH and potentially lower the normal game size points.

Old world already was a massive time sink, often requireing far more models than the other GW alternatives. Being told that you'd need multiple boxes to field a unit is already an off putting issue for many.

It was annoying with chaos warriors already and those atleast brought some points meat to the table, skaven etc were just borderline unafordable, but worse it got with certain "new" end WHFB released units like the twohanders for the empire.
Then there were availability issues, GW store exclusive key units like bestigores, chaos knights, etc. And that is were logistically we are already seeing issues with HH, 40k and AoS and then we get ToW ontop which has far more diffrent sets for diffrent factions due to them not sharing a core skeleton (compared to HH of course) and it's at this point were we also supposedly get epic that i get really sceptical.

Uptonius wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 streetsamurai wrote:
The tomb king is a really nice model, but it being resin does seems to imply that as i feared, this will be a low investment affaire

All plastic was never on cards. You are going to get new resin as well as new plastic. Tough. Life is. Gw is for profit and not charity. Deal with it.

Then maybe they should stop selling their resin trash. If you read the comments on videos about new model releases you'll see about 90% of people will just not pay for resin no matter how great the model is.
I want a fleet of ridge/iron crawlers for Necromunda but once they revealed the upgrade was a FW kit it was dead in the water.
They lose thousands if not hundreds of thousands in sales limiting items to resin.
GW is for profit but they're not exactly about selling as many models as possible. We're that the case they would actually be ready for their release dates and would do proper preorders.
Perhaps the non-resin crowd is move vocal that people willing to work with inferior garbage. So you just don't hear people talking about their resin kits very often.
No one plays Necromunda in my area because of the resin upgrades. No one plays anything other than plastic HH models. No one really plays titans... They might own one or two (or in one guys case an entire friggin Legio) but they don't actually use them.
Resin needs to be removed from all of GWs products ASAP.

So you want plastic instead?

Then you get no model. It's not resin or plastic. It's resin or nothing.

You are person with zero business sense and would bankrupt gw in 6 months. Which seeing how big and profitable gw is requires impressive level of incompency.

What people like you forget is gw is in for profit, not destroying company for people's dreams.

Oh and your beloved plastic is reason why characters cost triple and amount of variety went down. No profit making multiple plastic commisar/ork weirdboy etc.

Alsy you plastic faith believers just keep shouting your slogans forgetting truth of right material for right job. Just because idea of using super glue is too hard

Much as resin is comparatively expensive at the consumer end (though it's almost on par with GW plastic sometimes), there's a sound reason they use it on the kits they do. Simply put, if they didn't have resin via Forge World for elements of the Specialist Games ranges, those models just wouldn't get made; the sales volume isn't there to justify it. The playerbase can (and probably do...) spend any amount of time arguing which sets do justify the plastic treatment over others but it isn't going to change their approach (unless, perhaps, if there's an unexpected level of interest in the game as happened with Blood Bowl in 2016).

Until we get a more tangible idea of what the range is going to look like then I'm reserving any sort of judgement.

tneva82 wrote:

Uptonius wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 streetsamurai wrote:
The tomb king is a really nice model, but it being resin does seems to imply that as i feared, this will be a low investment affaire

All plastic was never on cards. You are going to get new resin as well as new plastic. Tough. Life is. Gw is for profit and not charity. Deal with it.

Then maybe they should stop selling their resin trash. If you read the comments on videos about new model releases you'll see about 90% of people will just not pay for resin no matter how great the model is.
I want a fleet of ridge/iron crawlers for Necromunda but once they revealed the upgrade was a FW kit it was dead in the water.
They lose thousands if not hundreds of thousands in sales limiting items to resin.
GW is for profit but they're not exactly about selling as many models as possible. We're that the case they would actually be ready for their release dates and would do proper preorders.
Perhaps the non-resin crowd is move vocal that people willing to work with inferior garbage. So you just don't hear people talking about their resin kits very often.
No one plays Necromunda in my area because of the resin upgrades. No one plays anything other than plastic HH models. No one really plays titans... They might own one or two (or in one guys case an entire friggin Legio) but they don't actually use them.
Resin needs to be removed from all of GWs products ASAP.

So you want plastic instead?

Then you get no model. It's not resin or plastic. It's resin or nothing.

You are person with zero business sense and would bankrupt gw in 6 months. Which seeing how big and profitable gw is requires impressive level of incompency.

What people like you forget is gw is in for profit, not destroying company for people's dreams.

Oh and your beloved plastic is reason why characters cost triple and amount of variety went down. No profit making multiple plastic commisar/ork weirdboy etc.

Alsy you plastic faith believers just keep shouting your slogans forgetting truth of right material for right job. Just because idea of using super glue is too hard

So GW can make like ten plastic event exclusive, store anniversary and so forth models yearly, that'll probably sell five total units combined, but will instantly go bankrupt if they put that effort into the launch for one of their most famous and anticipated games?

Makes sense to me!

Voss wrote:

Ogres are, barring a few (2?) characters (one of which is very bad), entirely the 8th edition range.
Skaven still have old monkey skaven night runners from 5th or 6th edition, the fairly bad rat ogres/giant rats, plague monks and a lot of metal, particularly for Skryre stuff. They're still coasting on Isle of Blood era models and a few End Times things.

This seems an odd stance considering the Bulls, Gnoblars, Ironguts, and Leadbelchers are also from 6th ed Fantasy like the Plague Monk and Rat Ogres.

FIamingUndeadRoman wrote:
So GW can make like ten plastic event exclusive, store anniversary and so forth models yearly, that'll probably sell five total units combined, but will instantly go bankrupt if they put that effort into the launch for one of their most famous and anticipated games?

Makes sense to me!

Yeah. I don't know the economics of plastic vs resin - but the claim of "GW just can't do that" would hold up better if GW weren't doing exactly that elsewhere.

Tyel wrote:

FIamingUndeadRoman wrote:
So GW can make like ten plastic event exclusive, store anniversary and so forth models yearly, that'll probably sell five total units combined, but will instantly go bankrupt if they put that effort into the launch for one of their most famous and anticipated games?

Makes sense to me!

Yeah. I don't know the economics of plastic vs resin - but the claim of "GW just can't do that" would hold up better if GW weren't doing exactly that elsewhere.

It's a fair point ("five total units" hyperbole aside), the sticking point here is that we don't know what new stuff actually is coming for The Old World in plastic yet. Foot Knights seem a safe bet (probably what those renders of sword-arms were for) and 'something' for Tomb Kings at the very least. I'd imagine there's at least a bit more. I expect most new character models to be Forge World resins. Essentially what we see for Horus Heresy; that game just gets more plastic characters (and models in general) than other Specialist Games (coz Space Marines...).

That they're also going to be ramping up production on older plastic kits is also going to be a significant factor in the production capacity allotted to the project (arguably still sensible since it means there can be stuff available without having to wait on design/tooling). Whether those individual kits are good or desirable is a different question.

tneva82 wrote:

 streetsamurai wrote:
The tomb king is a really nice model, but it being resin does seems to imply that as i feared, this will be a low investment affaire

All plastic was never on cards. You are going to get new resin as well as new plastic. Tough. Life is. Gw is for profit and not charity. Deal with it.

GW has to earn that profit though.
If they want to put out something low effort anyone is free to find it disappointing and not buy it.

It's really the FAQ that gives the hint they really do seem to be very careful at best with the future of this Old World project line.

I do understand why they keep us in the dark for the base size change (they could have least told us for cavalry for example), but it's still frustrating to have had that answer. Fair enough, it's so that we're not sure what to print new miniatures for cheaper / rebase our old miniatures in advance.

Well...if there is no "real starter set" and they're focusing on 2 factions first then release gradually the rest, I guess it makes it more relevant to have an "early release".

I was a bit bumped with the previews being resin miniatures, I must say. But yeah, my expectations certainly got lower now.

They aren't going to give away base sizes till after the game shows up because they don't want to lose out on any possible sales. If they were to tell you base sizes now, even if they are totally new sizes, Etsy and the like would have them up for sale in bulk before we even got screen grabs.

Uptonius wrote:

Spoiler:

tneva82 wrote:

 streetsamurai wrote:
The tomb king is a really nice model, but it being resin does seems to imply that as i feared, this will be a low investment affaire

All plastic was never on cards. You are going to get new resin as well as new plastic. Tough. Life is. Gw is for profit and not charity. Deal with it.

Then maybe they should stop selling their resin trash. If you read the comments on videos about new model releases you'll see about 90% of people will just not pay for resin no matter how great the model is.
I want a fleet of ridge/iron crawlers for Necromunda but once they revealed the upgrade was a FW kit it was dead in the water.
They lose thousands if not hundreds of thousands in sales limiting items to resin.

Resin needs to be removed from all of GWs products ASAP.

Wholly agreed. It's a waste every time they do it, honestly.

 Platuan4th wrote:

Voss wrote:

Ogres are, barring a few (2?) characters (one of which is very bad), entirely the 8th edition range.
Skaven still have old monkey skaven night runners from 5th or 6th edition, the fairly bad rat ogres/giant rats, plague monks and a lot of metal, particularly for Skryre stuff. They're still coasting on Isle of Blood era models and a few End Times things.

This seems an odd stance considering the Bulls, Gnoblars, Ironguts, and Leadbelchers are also from 6th ed Fantasy like the Plague Monk and Rat Ogres.

It wasn't really a stance, more informational, given the context was the current AoS ranges being backported to TOW. My phrasing may have been confusing, but ogres are essentially the same army they were at the end of WFB. The skaven range is cut up into very distinct production eras.

But in general, the plastic ogre models are much better than the old skaven plastics.

FIamingUndeadRoman wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

Uptonius wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 streetsamurai wrote:
The tomb king is a really nice model, but it being resin does seems to imply that as i feared, this will be a low investment affaire

All plastic was never on cards. You are going to get new resin as well as new plastic. Tough. Life is. Gw is for profit and not charity. Deal with it.

Then maybe they should stop selling their resin trash. If you read the comments on videos about new model releases you'll see about 90% of people will just not pay for resin no matter how great the model is.
I want a fleet of ridge/iron crawlers for Necromunda but once they revealed the upgrade was a FW kit it was dead in the water.
They lose thousands if not hundreds of thousands in sales limiting items to resin.
GW is for profit but they're not exactly about selling as many models as possible. We're that the case they would actually be ready for their release dates and would do proper preorders.
Perhaps the non-resin crowd is move vocal that people willing to work with inferior garbage. So you just don't hear people talking about their resin kits very often.
No one plays Necromunda in my area because of the resin upgrades. No one plays anything other than plastic HH models. No one really plays titans... They might own one or two (or in one guys case an entire friggin Legio) but they don't actually use them.
Resin needs to be removed from all of GWs products ASAP.

So you want plastic instead?

Then you get no model. It's not resin or plastic. It's resin or nothing.

You are person with zero business sense and would bankrupt gw in 6 months. Which seeing how big and profitable gw is requires impressive level of incompency.

What people like you forget is gw is in for profit, not destroying company for people's dreams.

Oh and your beloved plastic is reason why characters cost triple and amount of variety went down. No profit making multiple plastic commisar/ork weirdboy etc.

Alsy you plastic faith believers just keep shouting your slogans forgetting truth of right material for right job. Just because idea of using super glue is too hard

So GW can make like ten plastic event exclusive, store anniversary and so forth models yearly, that'll probably sell five total units combined, but will instantly go bankrupt if they put that effort into the launch for one of their most famous and anticipated games?

Makes sense to me!

Special edition models that they no doubt sell quite a large amount of due to it being a limited time thing, that also exists to get people into a GW store and spending money on other things while there, and times up limited space because they're temporary/made to order, seems like a bit of a unfair comparison compared to just a general low-volume selling miniature.

tneva82 wrote:

 streetsamurai wrote:
The tomb king is a really nice model, but it being resin does seems to imply that as i feared, this will be a low investment affaire

All plastic was never on cards. You are going to get new resin as well as new plastic. Tough. Life is. Gw is for profit and not charity. Deal with it.

Once again, you seems overly concerned about what i think and how i spend my money. And as i said before, i have no intention of engaging in a discussion with you, so you cant stop trying "triggering" me

and what is the reason a Khemri Army Box with all new model cannot be such a limited release?

 kodos wrote:
and what is the reason a Khemri Army Box with all new model cannot be such a limited release?

Nothing, really. But here, these new miniatures are clearly characters so it's true they're not intended to be bought by dozens for a same player. More likely one or two. Since they seem "chilly" on this project so far, I can see why they don't see the interest to put the same investment than, say, AoS's choice of making generic characters plastic.

I'd prefer to build a plastic hero character for sure...but on the other end, GW's current resin isn't as bad as it was. It's not "crap" per se, but I totally understand not enjoying building them.

Anyway, GW will always have the final word as for the material they decide to use for their Old World miniature range, and we customers will get to see if that's worth it or not.

 kodos wrote:
and what is the reason a Khemri Army Box with all new model cannot be such a limited release?

Because even a variety of small cha4acter sprues take up far less tooling and casting time on the machines than even a single unit using full size frames, much less multiple units.

It's genuinely disheartening how many people seem to want to do away with resin, most don't seem to realise how vital it is, both in terms of the higher level of fine detail that it holds and also the fact that it allows GW/FW to make models that otherwise wouldn't be given the production green light due to cost.

Uptonius wrote:
Then maybe they should stop selling their resin trash.

Oh dear. Describing something that you don't like as "trash" is never a good look

Uptonius wrote:
If you read the comments on videos about new model releases you'll see about 90% of people will just not pay for resin no matter how great the model is.

This is a ridiculous statement. Your hyperbole is off the scale.

Uptonius wrote:
I want a fleet of ridge/iron crawlers for Necromunda but once they revealed the upgrade was a FW kit it was dead in the water.

I bought two Iron Crawlers, I absolutely love the model. Refusing to buy a model because of the material it's made in really doesn't make sense to me.

Uptonius wrote:
They lose thousands if not hundreds of thousands in sales limiting items to resin.

It's not possible to know whether or not this is true. Regardless, you don't understand the factors involved when GW decide whether or not to cast a model in resin.

Uptonius wrote:
GW is for profit but they're not exactly about selling as many models as possible. We're that the case they would actually be ready for their release dates and would do proper preorders.

Of course they want to sell as many models as they can, you just don't understand the decision making and logistics involved.

Uptonius wrote:
Perhaps the non-resin crowd is move vocal that people willing to work with inferior garbage. So you just don't hear people talking about their resin kits very often.

It's hard to take you seriously when you refer to mediums other than HiPs plastic as "garbage" or "trash". Resin is better than plastic when it comes to holding fine detail. This is a fact. I, and others like me, will happily do the extra work required with resin models because when it comes to fine detail it is superior to plastic.

Uptonius wrote:
No one plays Necromunda in my area because of the resin upgrades.

That's sad, Necromunda is a fantastic game that I've only recently started playing. The resin upgrades are the cherry on top of a delicious cake. You and your colleagues are missing out.

Uptonius wrote:
No one plays anything other than plastic HH models. No one really plays titans... They might own one or two (or in one guys case an entire friggin Legio) but they don't actually use them.
Resin needs to be removed from all of GWs products ASAP.

Titans are rarely seen on tabletops, mostly because they are very expensive, as well as being a massive investment in hobby time. If there were no resin titans there would be no titans, full stop. Most resin models produced by FW/GW are resin because it wouldn't make financial sense to produce them in plastic, mostly due to the larger cost for the molds.

It would be nice if people had a basic understanding of the factors involved in model production before they have an anti-resin rant...one day, maybe?

If you’re going to have to buy resin, you might as well get some value for your dollar. Check out this not-Tomb Kings army for $125. I went in on the kickstarter, and the minis I received were good quality, mostly one or two pieces, and superior in casting to any Forgeworld resins I bought in the 2000’s/early 2010’s. They’re a good height, although the heavily armed HQ character is a but hunched over, and could use a tactical rock base for a more imposing height.

 Theophony wrote:
They aren't going to give away base sizes till after the game shows up because they don't want to lose out on any possible sales. If they were to tell you base sizes now, even if they are totally new sizes, Etsy and the like would have them up for sale in bulk before we even got screen grabs.

Made a mold for 30mm squares yesterday and will cut a 30 X 60 cav mold next week. Will have them injection molded just in case that is the correct size.

Already have 32 X 50 for flames of war but doubt they will use that size. And if they go to 32mm square will knock them out as well.

So your prediction is quite accurate.

I have a lot of minis to rebase.......................