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I understand all of doom snd gloom here, but I am still optimistic. They wrote in the article, that there will be more model revails to come and new minis are in resin and in plastic aswell.
It worth noting that they want release 10th edition 40k in the upcomming months, if you where in there shoes would jeopordise the sales of that game with another, which is also loved dearly?

I don't find pinning it on 40k terribly convincing. Yes, of course GW wants the current focus on 10th ed 40k, but normally they seem happy to release a ton of stuff for the same system or setting back to back or almost back to back with little time for wallets to recover. We wouldn't expect The Old World before November. That's a lot of time to buy into 40k and still build up funds for The Old World. Compared to a lot of other GW releases anyway. Never mind that both Marines and Tyranids are as far removed from existing Fantasy factions as it gets, it's sci-fi versus fantasy, skirmish versus rank and file. You wouldn't expect the same audience to be interested. Some overlap, sure. But not to such a degree that 40k sales should take a dip if everyone planning on buying into The Old World held back on 40k.

More likely it's down to one of two things. Old World isn't a progression of something already up for sale, so GW really doesn't want to step out of their very narrow pre-release window for disseminating worthwhile information. We usually get marketing for things that are no more than three months out, but tangible information on the gaming side as well as release dates don't usually come even that far out. GW likes its secrets and is mortally afraid of 3rd parties getting any heads up on new things so as to get maximum sales out of everything before 3rd party alternatives pop up. It's enough for GW to forego any semblance of marketing and give us, well, exactly what we got.

The other thing is that with the probable Epic teaser, this year's Specialist game is Epic and The Old World simply isn't happening this year. That's plenty of reason for GW to tell us nothing because the release is still too far off. All we get is previews of things that are safe to show this far out. We know what a Bretonnian knight or a Tomb King look like, so they'll show them. We, and 3rd party manufacturers, have no concrete idea what base sizes GW intends to use, so they keep silent on it.

We all know GW likes to advertise their previews as the best thing ever and what to make of that claim. But in the cases of Adepticon and Warhammer Fest, we also know that these two events are the ones where GW likes to drop big announcements. I suspect being disappointed by the GW previews this time around has a lot to do with actually being able to believe this to be the time GW might genuinely drop big news. Turns out not to be the case for The Old World, but the hope was not completely unfounded.

 Aenar wrote:

Tyel wrote:
I'm quite negative after this. Maybe as some people seem to be arguing it was a realistic tonic.

But ultimately if TOW is going to be models from 10-30 years ago (maybe some newer AoS on square bases, who knows), with a few Finecast characters and perhaps the odd new plastic kit, I'm just not interested.

Roughly half the TOW/WHFB factions already have brand new plastic ranges:
- Lizardmen (just now)
- Chaos
- Daemons
- Goblins
- Skaven
- Ogres
- Vampires

And probably a couple more I'm forgetting about.
Then you also have all those units that could fit in old factions, like part of the Sylvaneth range, part of the Daughters of Khaine, ...

Bretonnia and TK were nuked, but then even the factions which had no refresh in AoS (Dwarves, High Elves, Empire (yet), ...) still have some 8th ed WHFB minis sold in AoS.

Skaven and Ogres have brand new plastic ranges do they?

chaos0xomega wrote:

Tsagualsa wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
So far, there hasn't been much said about TOW that I find surprising, it's basically all "I told you so" levels of what I expected.

Actually I do find it surprising that there's no starter set, though from what I have seen/heard it sounds kind of like GW is launching TOW in 2 phases - phase 1 is core rules and legacy rules/models, phase 2 will come after which is focusing on the time of three emperors narrative. That phase 2 is expected out later, and I bet THAT is when a starter with new plastics will drop.

Maybe there's something to the rumours about reprints for Island of Blood and Battle for Skull Pass - these are pure plastic products, so they could crank them out without any S&H problems, and they're very popular boxes from what i gather.

I'll do backflips if they reprint Island of Blood at a reasonable price.

Hold your horses there, we ARE talking about GW...

Skaven and Ogres have some high quality kits from the tail end of WHFB, but IIRC all they got during the entirety of AoS was about 2 plastic heroes and 2 Underworlds gangs each...?

 Overread wrote:

Apple fox wrote:
Feels like management has no idea what to do with the project.

I think a lot of players would have been happy having the setting put back with “And we won’t blow it up, and continue from there.”

the problem is doing that means blowing up AoS

No it doesn't, any more than they needed to blow up WFB to do AoS. They did that because they thought they could get all the WFB players to jump straight into AoS. Instead, they could have made AoS a game about some sort of mythic past and gone from there, but they didn't. So now, they're (apparently) going to do TOW in the past of the WFB history, so that they can have both games concurrently, no need to blow up AoS.

There are very few situations of this sort where you can only have one thing or the other, and not both.

Guys, GW has a history of not releasing new information about other projects when a bigger release is about to hit the shelves. Allot of you are reading to much into this.

I understand that we want all of the information now. Hell I would like to see the ravaging hoards get you by lists for TOW even if I had no context to the rules so I can start painting and basing my army. But they are not going to do that.

 Overread wrote:

Apple fox wrote:
Feels like management has no idea what to do with the project.

I think a lot of players would have been happy having the setting put back with “And we won’t blow it up, and continue from there.”

the problem is doing that means blowing up AoS

"Problem" seems to be doing a lot of unwarranted heavy lifting there, Overread.

tneva82 wrote:
You keep saying they have　no game.

Newsflash: you aren't special snowflake that decides do they have game or not. You can keep repeating it but that just makes you repetual liar

Ok boss.

2 resin models and some retro drawings. What do they have?

 triplegrim wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
You keep saying they have　no game.

Newsflash: you aren't special snowflake that decides do they have game or not. You can keep repeating it but that just makes you repetual liar

Ok boss.

2 resin models and some retro drawings. What do they have?

Now don't be unfair, they also have half a regiment's worth of renders for Bretonian arms, and what amounts to a Tomb King accessory sprue. And a repainted studio army. That's not too bad for years of alleged development...

Tsagualsa wrote:

 triplegrim wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
You keep saying they have　no game.

Newsflash: you aren't special snowflake that decides do they have game or not. You can keep repeating it but that just makes you repetual liar

Ok boss.

2 resin models and some retro drawings. What do they have?

Now don't be unfair, they also have half a regiment's worth of renders for Bretonian arms, and what amounts to a Tomb King accessory sprue. And a repainted studio army. That's not too bad for years of alleged development...

Not mention that they have old moulds for the WHFB models. We know they are going use those.
Also they stated that all 8th edition army is going to be useable, which can be an indicator, that they have rules for them. Which implies, that there is rulebook for the game.That another question, what condition are these books.

 Paymaster Games wrote:
Guys, GW has a history of not releasing new information about other projects when a bigger release is about to hit the shelves. Allot of you are reading to much into this.

I understand that we want all of the information now. Hell I would like to see the ravaging hoards get you by lists for TOW even if I had no context to the rules so I can start painting and basing my army. But they are not going to do that.

The solution there was to not put TOW on the list of previews for this event, and just sneak these two models in as a teaser or on WarCom.

GW created the expectation they'd have something significant to say, and then just... didn't.

Compare this to the Epic teaser, where people were expecting nothing, and got excited by a short video.

Even with my expectations set very low, I find this all incredible underwhelming.

I'm going to go about my business pretending this project doesn't exist until something more substantial is provided.

Tyel wrote:

I can sort of get that - and I was in that camp for a while. Unfortunately though its been the best part of a decade and that matters outside the garages of immortal grognards. I just feel increasingly disconnected from the models all those years back. Sure, when GW release the rules I'm going to give them a go. But I can't see myself starting a new army that's mosty ancient kits. I can't see many people doing that.

Why not? There seems to be this pervasive idea that GW's only customers are old men who have been playing since the late 90's/early aughts. That just cannot be true given the success and penetration of their product lines. In the time since WHFB many potential customers will have developed (in some cases off the back of the popularity of things like Total Warhammer and Vermintide). A bunch of these potential customers will be people who don't play any miniatures game, but maybe played the videogames when they were younger and now have adult money to spend on bs. What will matter most is whether the resurrected kits compare favourably to other kits that are available on the market. And on that note,

Tyel wrote:
As an Edit - I think it depends on how old is old. Some minis hold up. A lot don't. Even some of the 8th edition plastics are over 10 years old now - and will be older still by the time TOW is actually out. 7th edition is 15+ years old. 6th edition can be pushing 20. Saying minis are old enough to drink used to be a criticism of GW not refreshing them, not a motivation to get hold of them. If you've got that mostly 6th edition army and never got one unit then this is great news for you. But I can't see that attracted new people in

The "years old" counter on miniatures does not matter. What matters is the "generation" counter. Most, if not all, of the 8th edition releases are broadly in the same generation as current GW miniatures. Those 10-year-old minis still look better than Mantic minis, Frostgrave minis, Reaper minis, etc.

edit: Island of Blood is a perfect example of this. It came out ~13 years ago, but if it hadn't, and it released tomorrow, no tuned-in-to-GW individual on earth would think twice about it. Everything about its aesthetics and design accords with contemporary GW kits. It has jigsaw snapfits, monobuild dynamic action poses, sculpted magic and flames in the easy-to-break style, tactical rocks, etc.

Voss wrote:
GW created the expectation they'd have something significant to say, and then just... didn't.

This is the only thing I could find them mentioning it:

There’s plenty more to come from development diaries in the future – and you may just hear even more at Warhammer Fest, which kicks off on Saturday the 29th of April.

I think the rest is wishlisting by the community and rumormongers. My own particular disappointment is self-inflicted. Fantasy was my jam well before 40K and I just can't get into AoS.

caladancid wrote:
Skaven and Ogres have brand new plastic ranges do they?

Skaven are still sold in AoS so they are considered a pretty decent range, it doesn't need a refresh to be sold under the TOW brand again.
Ogres have plenty of new stuff compatible with TOW, I think they are called Ogors now.

It seems to me that ToW project, in trying to please everyone, will end up pleasing no one. I expect a dumpster fire 🔥

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Voss wrote:
GW created the expectation they'd have something significant to say, and then just... didn't.

This is the only thing I could find them mentioning it:

There’s plenty more to come from development diaries in the future – and you may just hear even more at Warhammer Fest, which kicks off on Saturday the 29th of April.

I think the rest is wishlisting by the community and rumormongers. My own particular disappointment is self-inflicted. Fantasy was my jam well before 40K and I just can't get into AoS.

This...I'm going to Alamo GT this week, Kansas City open first week of June, and Nova in August/September. Playing 40k at all these but would muchhhhhh rather be playing TOW from a comp perspective. Hence I was hoping for more substantial info so I could start mapping out my tourneys for Q4 2023 and Q1 2024.

I do wonder now if the cosplay announcement is set to coincide with the release of TOW. I think I saw Spring 2024 as when that product line would launch, is it meant to drop alongside TOW?

 Aenar wrote:

caladancid wrote:
Skaven and Ogres have brand new plastic ranges do they?

Skaven are still sold in AoS so they are considered a pretty decent range, it doesn't need a refresh to be sold under the TOW brand again.
Ogres have plenty of new stuff compatible with TOW, I think they are called Ogors now.

I think it's a travesty that they're still selling some of those janky old Skaven models to people who don't know any better.

Skaven feel a bit like Eldar, where part of the range is updated and great, and then part -- the Aspects/Clan units -- are gak.

The tomb king is a really nice model, but it being resin does seems to imply that as i feared, this will be a low investment affaire

 Paymaster Games wrote:
It is way to soon for the 8th edition comparison. The designers are likely young and were likely told to start with the models of 8th edition. IE the easiest models for them to put on the shelves with out much effort.

Once again this is way to soon to start shooting this down. Yes it is starting to take shape, but as of now we have no idea what that shape is yet.

I'm not so much comparing it to 8th as much as suspecting that the way they've talked about TOW recently, it's going to end up as 8.5 rather than an actual new game/new edition.

This is bittersweet for me.

My main interest is in the lore, which was never going to be good. The setting was deliberately written to be a dead end. The miniatures were always going to be too expensive, but a flood of great plastics would have tempted me and filled me with regret at missing out. Now I’ll have few regrets.


Every update leads to a renewed interest in the old lore, the good lore, as well as a spike in interest for new minis, third party if necessary. And there has never been a better time for GW to keep rubbing our faces in their inadequacies. One can buy 3D prints for each of these armies for a fraction of GW prices, and feel less guilty every update. The third party plastics market is in its golden age. Are they all GW quality? Maybe not, but they’re available and fine any time one decides to stop holding out for that perfect 10 that’ll never happen.

 streetsamurai wrote:
The tomb king is a really nice model, but it being resin does seems to imply that as i feared, this will be a low investment affaire

I find this complaint just odd. It's a specialist game, that's what they do for them, resin was to be expected. Necromunda and Horus Heresy both get resin miniatures all the time.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
This is bittersweet for me.

My main interest is in the lore, which was never going to be good. The setting was deliberately written to be a dead end. The miniatures were always going to be too expensive, but a flood of great plastics would have tempted me and filled me with regret at missing out. Now I’ll have few regrets.


Every update leads to a renewed interest in the old lore, the good lore, as well as a spike in interest for new minis, third party if necessary. And there has never been a better time for GW to keep rubbing our faces in their inadequacies. One can buy 3D prints for each of these armies for a fraction of GW prices, and feel less guilty every update. The third party plastics market is in its golden age. Are they all GW quality? Maybe not, but they’re available and fine any time one decides to stop holding out for that perfect 10 that’ll never happen.

Well C7 and to some extent Total War do alot more than I suspect GW will

 cole1114 wrote:

 Paymaster Games wrote:
It is way to soon for the 8th edition comparison. The designers are likely young and were likely told to start with the models of 8th edition. IE the easiest models for them to put on the shelves with out much effort.

Once again this is way to soon to start shooting this down. Yes it is starting to take shape, but as of now we have no idea what that shape is yet.

I'm not so much comparing it to 8th as much as suspecting that the way they've talked about TOW recently, it's going to end up as 8.5 rather than an actual new game/new edition.

I am going to have faith that 8th edition is a distant memory. The main core rules for WHFB have not changed much since third edition, little tweeks here and there, but roughly the same. I really think the sticky wicket would be army composition and the magic systems. Those have changed with every edition (except 4/5 editions that shared army books), with the most balanced edition being 6th.GW said this will be a completely new edition that takes the best elements from previous editions. I have been burned by GW before, like most of you. I really do believe that GW has learned from the failure of 8th edition and will give us the edition we are looking for. Hey after the Old World is released and is complete trash, i have no problem eating crow on this one.

 Paymaster Games wrote:
Hey after the Old World is released and is complete trash, i have no problem eating crow on this one.

Good thing is in that case we can just revert to whatever edition we've been playing before ToW. At this point every community has likely figured out what they want from the game, so getting bad rules is not the end of the world.

I am hoping to play Warhammer in the stores again. It is hard to do when are using a dead version of the game. I really do hope that the Old World is going to be the game they told us it would be.

Daedalus81 wrote:

Voss wrote:
GW created the expectation they'd have something significant to say, and then just... didn't.

This is the only thing I could find them mentioning it:

There’s plenty more to come from development diaries in the future – and you may just hear even more at Warhammer Fest, which kicks off on Saturday the 29th of April.

I think the rest is wishlisting by the community and rumormongers. My own particular disappointment is self-inflicted. Fantasy was my jam well before 40K and I just can't get into AoS.

It could also be that GW announced this 3 years ago and it's not unreasonable to expect them to have something to tell.

Why did they announce this so far in advance?
From outside the GW bubble it looks like they're trying to string along people's attention.

Apparently there are still people who would rather wait for what GW gives them than try games outside of GW.
GW best give those people a reason to keep waiting instead of wandering off and finding out there's a big wide world of wargaming where you can set your own terms on your hobby.

 DarkBlack wrote:

Daedalus81 wrote:

Voss wrote:
GW created the expectation they'd have something significant to say, and then just... didn't.

This is the only thing I could find them mentioning it:

There’s plenty more to come from development diaries in the future – and you may just hear even more at Warhammer Fest, which kicks off on Saturday the 29th of April.

I think the rest is wishlisting by the community and rumormongers. My own particular disappointment is self-inflicted. Fantasy was my jam well before 40K and I just can't get into AoS.

It could also be that GW announced this 3 years ago and it's not unreasonable to expect them to have something to tell.

Why did they announce this so far in advance?
From outside the GW bubble it looks like they're trying to string along people's attention.

Apparently there are still people who would rather wait for what GW gives them than try games outside of GW.
GW best give those people a reason to keep waiting instead of wandering off and finding out there's a big wide world of wargaming where you can set your own terms on your hobby.

I do not know about the gaming clubs where you are, but in nearly every store/club in my area plays a GW game after warmachine/hoards died. So If i want to go out and play a game, do a campaign, or compete in a tournament i have to play a GW game. So i would like to play a game that i want to play at the local store. That is what i am looking forward too.

 Paymaster Games wrote:

I do not know about the gaming clubs where you are, but in nearly every store/club in my area plays a GW game after warmachine/hoards died. So If i want to go out and play a game, do a campaign, or compete in a tournament i have to play a GW game. So i would like to play a game that i want to play at the local store. That is what i am looking forward too.

I find it hard to believe that's really true. I don't doubt that it looks that way from your point of view, but I suspect there's wargaming that you don't know about going on closer than you think.
Wargamers are not always good at advertising their presence, so it can be a challenge to find them though.