Warhammer - The Old World news and rumors. Pre orders. p.280.

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**Lord Damocles**

Is that supposed to be a woman? The only thing suggesting that to my eyes is the lack of a handlebar moustache. I assumed that it was just a younger male.

**RazorEdge**

This was posted yesterday after the Stream - got deleted shortly after.

**Geifer**

Lord Damocles wrote:
Is that supposed to be a woman? The only thing suggesting that to my eyes is the lack of a handlebar moustache. I assumed that it was just a younger male.

Yes, it's a female head. I'll grant you it can be a little hard to tell because she's not wearing an obvious fake mustache.

In better days she would have just worn a chain bikini. All of the armor protection with none of the ambiguity. Good times, but sadly long gone.

**Souleater**

The jawline of the other models is much squarer, while her features are smaller/finer than those of her compatriots.

**lord_blackfang**

Well those new plastics are actually fantastic. Now I'm actually excited to see what they do for my beloved Tomb Kings.

**Dudeface**

lord_blackfang wrote:
Well those new plastics are actually fantastic. Now I'm actually excited to see what they do for my beloved Tomb Kings.

You get 2 kits, one will be a character. Choose wisely.

**Shakalooloo**

Dudeface wrote:
lord_blackfang wrote:
Well those new plastics are actually fantastic. Now I'm actually excited to see what they do for my beloved Tomb Kings.

You get 2 kits, one will be a character. Choose wisely.

Used to have whole units of mummies, back in the day. Given that we're getting foot knights for Bretonnia, maybe it's time for a plastic regiment of elite mummy infantry?

**lord_blackfang**

If they don't replace the ancient skellies (cavalry included) it's gonna be dead on arrival

At a pinch, reclassify Tomb Guard as core and do mummies for elite

**Geifer**

Shakalooloo wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
lord_blackfang wrote:
Well those new plastics are actually fantastic. Now I'm actually excited to see what they do for my beloved Tomb Kings.

You get 2 kits, one will be a character. Choose wisely.

Used to have whole units of mummies, back in the day. Given that we're getting foot knights for Bretonnia, maybe it's time for a plastic regiment of elite mummy infantry?

I for one can't wait to have a new plastic elite regiment for that nostalgic feeling of having to buy sucky old Core models to play the modern models. It will be good to see for GW to be respectful of the army's defining feature!

Anyway, mummies are a bit of tough one. They're from a time when undead were the classic horror show lineup, minus the wolfman. Functionally Tomb Guard has taken over the mummified elite troops slot, even if the bandages have been very conservatively applied on the metal models and a bit less so on the plastic replacements. They're still pretty bare in that regard and don't live up to the artwork in the 6th ed army book. But considering that Tomb Guard is a new plastic kit, I don't think the same unit with more bandages is likely if we get an equivalent number of new kits to Bretonnians.

I'm not really sure what to expect, to be honest.

**Cirith**

I am impressed with the new Bret characters on pegasus.

I am not happy with the Foot Knight arms and weapons though. Some of the helms look to AoS to me as well.

Ah well, head and weapon swaps are easy.

**Fayric**

I see they paint the eyes inside the helmets. Thats classy!

So, the article said the stuff they show there is the full lineup for Bretonnia.
That leave out units like mounted yeoman, grail knighs and my favourite -the questing knights, as well as the grail reliqua.
I suppose old metal/finecast stuff might get a "made to order" slot.

**Frankenberry**

Breotan wrote:
So, the crappy metal kits are being re-released in resin. Sigh... at this point I don't even know why I dared to hope.

Hope IS the first step on the road to disappointment.

**Vorian**

The article says:

Alongside these new and returning kits which form the bulk (or entirety) of your force, there will also be a selection of returning metal heroes and specialist units that will be available to order direct from games-workshop.com.

Presumably these will include Grail/Errant/questing knights at least

The Treb is being resin-ed because it's a nightmare to assemble in metal.

**Mr Morden**

frankelee wrote:
Mentlegen324 wrote:
frankelee wrote:
I guess it probably shouldn't be surprising the Kislev ice guard might be scrapped. It was very not-Warhammer-Fantasy-Battles.

They weren't something pulled out of nowhere that was a sudden change for how Kislev was depicted.

Ice witches wielding magical frost weapons and having an import place in Kislev society is perfectly fitting with their lore.

Sorry guise, but I don't know much about the retcon lore post 6th edition. It very well can be that it fit WFB in 2015, or WFB in 2024, either way it's a very late and significant tonal change from what the game was. And I remember a lot of people on the internet saying it came across as kind of weird and not very Warhammer. And of course those types of Kislev troops weren't models at any point right up through the End Times. But if GeeDubs is hoping to sell the game to middle aged guys with too much disposable income then it still wouldn't surprise me if they at least didn't prioritize stuff that those of us who played in the 90s and 2000s don't recognize as being legitimately within the tone and feel of the setting.

No - this is fitting with lore from the very beginning - mostly initially established by 1st Edition and 2nd WFRP back in the period you are talking about or earlier.

So yes it is perfectly within the setting - always has been.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Souleater wrote:
The jawline of the other models is much squarer, while her features are smaller/finer than those of her compatriots.

I am not aware they said that figure was female - was it on the stream? I would think you can use it as either a woman or a male with somwhat femine features - after all it will make no difference on the tabletop.

**Baragash**

Geifer wrote:
Anyway, mummies are a bit of tough one. They're from a time when undead were the classic horror show lineup, minus the wolfman. Functionally Tomb Guard has taken over the mummified elite troops slot,

They could slide them in as a not-quite-heroes unit above Tomb Guard, similar to where Putrid Blightkings sit in the WoC stat hierarchy,

If I had to choose anything to be upgraded it would be the skeleton horses, they are probably my least favourite thing to clean and assemble.

**lord_blackfang**

2 modest sprues could be enough to refresh the range

Infantry sprue with all relevant weapons

Horse sprue including rider legs - can be boxed with infantry to make cavalry, can be boxed with chariots to keep new horses consistent

**Dudeface**

lord_blackfang wrote:
2 modest sprues could be enough to refresh the range

Infantry sprue with all relevant weapons

Horse sprue including rider legs - can be boxed with infantry to make cavalry, can be boxed with chariots to keep new horses consistent

That would be more than brets got already, the only chance is if they don't treat them equally.

**Geifer**

Baragash wrote:
Geifer wrote:
Anyway, mummies are a bit of tough one. They're from a time when undead were the classic horror show lineup, minus the wolfman. Functionally Tomb Guard has taken over the mummified elite troops slot,

They could slide them in as a not-quite-heroes unit above Tomb Guard, similar to where Putrid Blightkings sit in the WoC stat hierarchy,

I guess. Seems like we already have Ushabti that provide something similar in game terms and snake surfers for more elite or higher status Tomb Guard in the fluff.

Now, all of this with the caveat that I'm the last one to complain about new Tomb Kings models whatever shape they take, and as quite a fan of mummies, too, but I'm not sure there is much sense in this particular addition and hope GW sees it the same way and prioritizes something more useful if we have to put up with such a limited number of new plastic models.

Dudeface wrote:
lord_blackfang wrote:
2 modest sprues could be enough to refresh the range

Infantry sprue with all relevant weapons

Horse sprue including rider legs - can be boxed with infantry to make cavalry, can be boxed with chariots to keep new horses consistent

That would be more than brets got already, the only chance is if they don't treat them equally.

I would totally accept such disparity if it means new plastic skeletons. Bretonnians can go suck it. No offense.

**AllSeeingSkink**

lord_blackfang wrote:
If they don't replace the ancient skellies (cavalry included) it's gonna be dead on arrival

Maybe I'm alone in this, but I'm disappointed they didn't replace the Men at Arms, Bowmen and Knights of the Realm kit. They're almost 20 years old and come from the period when GW models had horrible proportions. I say that as someone who bought a whole bunch of them back when they first released.

That said, I'm also not a huge fan of the new foot knights, they're just way too over detailed for Knights of the Realm for my liking. The level of detail is more along the lines of Questing if not Grail Knights.

I guess in the end I would have preferred a return to the 5th edition style of Bretonnians, back when the Perry twins made some really awesome looking metals.

**Darkial**

I actually think that the peasants and knights of the realm don't really need a revamp. I will touch first the grail knights. They don't feel at all special (I had to go to other brands to find something cool enough to make them feel elite).

For the foot knights, I just think they need a different paint job, because looking at them more in detail, they don't really have anything fancy going on except for the helmet and the champion.

**Ignispacium**

I'm curious as to what the Wood Elves are going to get in terms of new plastic. Most of their line got an update shortly before WFB was ended.

Wardancers are an obvious choice, but the metal ones have already been shown in an article so I'm not sure about that.

My dream option would be a lord on a forest dragon, but that seems much more like a Forgeworld project.

**Grail Seeker**

Dudeface wrote:
lord_blackfang wrote:
2 modest sprues could be enough to refresh the range

Infantry sprue with all relevant weapons

Horse sprue including rider legs - can be boxed with infantry to make cavalry, can be boxed with chariots to keep new horses consistent

That would be more than brets got already, the only chance is if they don't treat them equally.

The rational move would be to allocate resources based on need rather than equality. The peasant archers are a fine kit, the Bret’s men-at-arms kit is still great.

Tomb king skeletons are awful.

**AllSeeingSkink**

Ignispacium wrote:
I'm curious as to what the Wood Elves are going to get in terms of new plastic. Most of their line got an update shortly before WFB was ended.

Wardancers are an obvious choice, but the metal ones have already been shown in an article so I'm not sure about that.

My dream option would be a lord on a forest dragon, but that seems much more like a Forgeworld project.

Aren't the Glade Guard absolutely ancient? With those horrible cloaks that feel tacked on rather than part of the model.

I seem to recall painting up some Glade Guard and posting the pics on the official GW forum, so they must be pretty old

**Souleater**

@Mr Morden I don’t know if they mentioned it. I’m just going off the look of the models.

I think Inquisitor Gideon’s was putting forward the idea that there will be some folks complaining about the historical inaccuracy of female knights (mounted or otherwise) in an army so closely inspired by the notably patriarchal medieval French.

Apart from the flying horses, of course. Which they totally had. 😄

Hence the discussion about that model and whether or not it is meant to give off female warrior vibes without it looking like something out of mobile game Ad from Facebook.

On the other hand, he could just trying to be start an argument about the IRL existence of medieval female knights. Does being knighted because you borrowed some mail and were dropping rocks off the city wall really count? Does Joan of Arc count if she was on the battle but didn’t kill anyone, or at least have a go? That sort of thing.

In which case, Inquisitior Gideon is a bit of a cad and possibly bounder. I don’t know them, so will presume innocence. 🙂

**Apple fox**

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Ignispacium wrote:
I'm curious as to what the Wood Elves are going to get in terms of new plastic. Most of their line got an update shortly before WFB was ended.

Wardancers are an obvious choice, but the metal ones have already been shown in an article so I'm not sure about that.

My dream option would be a lord on a forest dragon, but that seems much more like a Forgeworld project.

Aren't the Glade Guard absolutely ancient? With those horrible cloaks that feel tacked on rather than part of the model.

I seem to recall painting up some Glade Guard and posting the pics on the official GW forum, so they must be pretty old

Glade Guard need! an update!
The Forrest dragon with the sisters is cool. If they update it they need to do it in the same spirit.
Also, it was probably one of the only monsters that payed for itself at end of fantasy so well.
Was a pain for basically anything if it made a flank charge.

Wood elves are ok with glade guard update and some heroes honestly, Alter/Beast kindred would be cool.

Also bows on all the elves other than the Alter Kindred, Don’t forget GW. The last book changed that for the first time in like 10+ years. It’s part of the faction. They ok Minis tho, so I forgive them.

Dryads look old now, would be nice getting an update but being trees keeps them fine when painted up.
The other stuff may just be out of the realm for this update, but glade guard updated is needed.
There horrible miniatures, and I won’t buy them again.

**Mallo**

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Ignispacium wrote:
I'm curious as to what the Wood Elves are going to get in terms of new plastic. Most of their line got an update shortly before WFB was ended.

Wardancers are an obvious choice, but the metal ones have already been shown in an article so I'm not sure about that.

My dream option would be a lord on a forest dragon, but that seems much more like a Forgeworld project.

Aren't the Glade Guard absolutely ancient? With those horrible cloaks that feel tacked on rather than part of the model.

I seem to recall painting up some Glade Guard and posting the pics on the official GW forum, so they must be pretty old

Yeap, they are pretty ancient by todays standards.

I know what you mean about the WE cloaks. I'm currently building a few knights of the white wolf and they are the same, the cloaks just kind of tack on to the model. The plastic kits was obviously once the cheapest way to build huge armies, but the old metals are lovely sculpts in comparison. In fact, I'm having to almost carve detail back into the knights when cleaning up the horrendous mould lines.

Thats going to be the hardest sell for GW in this case. Its going to be very, very noticeable between the quality of the kits. Those old brett knights are very plain and will have thick mould lines, where as the new foot knights have a lot of detail and if the newer AoS kits are anything to go by, almost mould line free.

Sure, its a nice compromise by having the new parts fit the old models to allow us to convert the older models into something more modern looking. But they are going to be charging 2024 prices, for 20+ year old minis that also need a 2nd set of minis to bring inline with the new style of models.

You think that GW would have spent more money in bringing the entire game up to modern standards before release.

I'm still just going to treat this as the biggest MTO run on fantasy models they have done and use it as an excuse to stock up on things I haven't yet paid a fortune for. I really don't see how they can sell this as wargame made for more experienced gamers in the modern market.

**Olthannon**

I mean the good news is that we will get big boxes of infantry. Presumably about the same as HH prices.

"These regiments and other future regiments are returning in boxes that contain enough plastic miniatures to make a full regiment, not just a rank or two. With the Peasant Bowmen box, you’ll be able to build a unit of 32 archers, complete with a command group and Defensive Stakes. So dreams of creating massive armies of ranked-up troops will be well within your grasp."

**Mallo**

Olthannon wrote:
I mean the good news is that we will get big boxes of infantry. Presumably about the same as HH prices.

"These regiments and other future regiments are returning in boxes that contain enough plastic miniatures to make a full regiment, not just a rank or two. With the Peasant Bowmen box, you’ll be able to build a unit of 32 archers, complete with a command group and Defensive Stakes. So dreams of creating massive armies of ranked-up troops will be well within your grasp."

Its a strange choice, seeing as they have shown units of 18 but selling in 32s. I can see the return of unit fillers being a popular money saving tactic again this edition.

If they are the same cost of the HH sets (or less) then that wouldn't be so bad.

**Mentlegen324**

frankelee wrote:
Mentlegen324 wrote:
frankelee wrote:
I guess it probably shouldn't be surprising the Kislev ice guard might be scrapped. It was very not-Warhammer-Fantasy-Battles.

They weren't something pulled out of nowhere that was a sudden change for how Kislev was depicted.

Ice witches wielding magical frost weapons and having an import place in Kislev society is perfectly fitting with their lore.

Sorry guise, but I don't know much about the retcon lore post 6th edition. It very well can be that it fit WFB in 2015, or WFB in 2024, either way it's a very late and significant tonal change from what the game was. And I remember a lot of people on the internet saying it came across as kind of weird and not very Warhammer. And of course those types of Kislev troops weren't models at any point right up through the End Times. But if GeeDubs is hoping to sell the game to middle aged guys with too much disposable income then it still wouldn't surprise me if they at least didn't prioritize stuff that those of us who played in the 90s and 2000s don't recognize as being legitimately within the tone and feel of the setting.

No, it absolutely is not.

4th edition Warhammer Armies: The empire, released in 1993 (...or 1996? Found both dates), has Kislev included but is very brief. They are depicted as more of a grounded human faction at this stage, but it's very, very brief; it basically amounts to a small amount of lore of pretty much "There's a place called Kislev" and 3-4 units. Winged Lancers, Katarin etc. Mentions Kislev is ruled by warrior-sorcerers with their magic based on the land itself and Frost/ice focused. Magic Ice Hawks, Ice Bridge that can carry units, Fearfrost as a magic frost sword etc. Art of Boris Usra riding a bear is shown, albeit it seems he isn't actually talked about at all so appears to not be a character...just a guy riding a bear. Also unclear if this is meant to be the same as Boris Ursus a few years later.

The 1996 Citadel Journal list had fantastical elements, including Bear mounts for heroes, Bear Cavalry, packs of bears and Baba Yaga. Common later lore things like their bear god, bears being sacred etc are mentioned here as similar to later lore but i'm unsure what was and wasn't already established in more "official" sources before this article, so while it's debatable as to how canonical the stuff here is (Citadel Journal is an official publication, but people could submit stuff), some of the things included here did also appear in definitely more official sources - I'm just unsure when specifically some of that first appeared and what is and isn't already established for them by the time this article was written.

Their Warmaster army list in 2002, had packs of tamed bears and bear mounts and a spell to transform into a giant bear (and mentions they build temples in which they keep pits full of bears to send out to war). That old art of Boris Ursa on a bear appears again.

The Ambassador series, Written by Graham Mcneill in 2003/2004, supposedly had those mystical fantasy elements included - Katarina apparently summons spirits of Kislev warriors in bodies of ice, for example. Bokha palace also has parts entire sections made of ice.

Their 6th edition army in 2003 did not have much in the way of that side of things, mostly just Boris Ursus as the most out-there in terms of units, albeit the book did depict conversions of both a hero on giant bear and bear cavalry. Their connection to various spirits are mentioned but its unclear as to if they book considers them as real or not. It mentions the religion involving bears with a God of Bears who takes the form of a bear - so despite the lack of bear units, bears are still said to be a very important thing to Kislev overall. Magical lore for different Gods are mentioned. The palace having sections made of ice are mentioned by the book too.

The Warhammer RPG "Realm of the Ice Queen" expansion released in 2007 once again follows the fantasy Kislev side and is the most comprehensive depiction of Kislev out of the lot - because its an RPG there's a lot of stuff. The various spirits mentioned previously are defined more specifically, there's magical creatures like Frostfiends and Firebirds, Hag Witches (like Baba Yaga was) are there, the map of the city of Kislev shows Bokha palace with the ice structure parts, Katarina has the enchanted Ice Palace, it details the importance of the Ice Witches, all the ice magic like ice weapons, the other cults/gods appear again with magic for them etc.

A unit of Ice Witches wielding magical weapons is perfectly in line with how Kislev lore already was. Those specific elements (Magical Frost Witches with Magical Ice weapons) were definitely already a thing in 2007 at the very least and potentially before (as I didn't do a huge indepth look into it), as the foundations were definitely there before then.

You being unaware of Kislev lore does not make it a retcon.

**Eumerin**

lord_blackfang wrote:
Now I'm actually excited to see what they do for my beloved Tomb Kings.

I'm guessing the mysterious character that we've been hearing rumors about, and maybe the missing Hierotitan model.

Unlike Bretonia, the Tomb Kings got an 8th Edition update. And I'm guessing that the new Bret models are stuff that was more or less "just waiting for a new Army Book release" to go out on sale.

I imagine that the core skeletons will be replaced eventually (and finally get some proper khopeshes), but I'm guessing that they're still a ways off.