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 His Master's Voice wrote:

 Fayric wrote:

Now its just a bad sculpt that dont fit the theme, and that makes me also question the throne bit balancing on the spine. I mean, is it supposed to fly with a lord balancing on that throne?

Is it supposed to fly? The wings have no membrane.

It's also got no tissue to hold it together and move; nor skin nor organs - its a magical undead dragon. If it want's to fly are you going to be the one to refuse it?

Heck the Zombie dragon and Terrorgast have wings in utter tatters and torn open segments of their bodies.

 His Master's Voice wrote:

 Fayric wrote:

Now its just a bad sculpt that dont fit the theme, and that makes me also question the throne bit balancing on the spine. I mean, is it supposed to fly with a lord balancing on that throne?

Is it supposed to fly? The wings have no membrane.

How does it smell with no nose?

 SgtEeveell wrote:

 His Master's Voice wrote:

 Fayric wrote:

Now its just a bad sculpt that dont fit the theme, and that makes me also question the throne bit balancing on the spine. I mean, is it supposed to fly with a lord balancing on that throne?

Is it supposed to fly? The wings have no membrane.

How does it smell with no nose?

actually quite nice, so there

 skeleton wrote:
The old skelly's did break at the waist alot. the newer ons didnt have manny weapon options as the old ones. And the upgrade tk spreu did have the bows, quivers heads and shields and if i remember right did have some scimitars and ofcourse the command stuff.

The 6th edition TK skelly weapon sprue had a straight sword, a scimitar, an axe, and a spiked ball and chain (a light flail, but often incorrectly called a morningstar). There was one of each for every four skeletons in the box. Alternately, there was also a set of bows for all of the models.

IIRC, 8th edition added spears as a possible weapon option. But since I didn't buy any new infantry for 8th edition, I don't know whether they changed up the weapons in the box..


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 His Master's Voice wrote:

 Fayric wrote:

Now its just a bad sculpt that dont fit the theme, and that makes me also question the throne bit balancing on the spine. I mean, is it supposed to fly with a lord balancing on that throne?

Is it supposed to fly? The wings have no membrane.

Repeat after me - "A liche priest did it!"

Eumerin wrote:

 skeleton wrote:
The old skelly's did break at the waist alot. the newer ons didnt have manny weapon options as the old ones. And the upgrade tk spreu did have the bows, quivers heads and shields and if i remember right did have some scimitars and ofcourse the command stuff.

The 6th edition TK skelly weapon sprue had a straight sword, a scimitar, an axe, and a spiked ball and chain (a light flail, but often incorrectly called a morningstar). There was one of each for every four skeletons in the box. Alternately, there was also a set of bows for all of the models.

IIRC, 8th edition added spears as a possible weapon option. But since I didn't buy any new infantry for 8th edition, I don't know whether they changed up the weapons in the box..

These are the 6th skelly sprues (taken from an ebay listing, spoilered because of image size):



The only TK additions were x2 bow, x2 shield sprues. You could build one spear, archer or hand weapon unit with command. The shields/banners still hold up today (in my eyes), but the rest is sorely dated.

Quite timely for Wargames Atlantic to be producing a box of skele horses and chariots, even if they're more Achaean themed. Anyone who has assembled the WA skele infantry knows that "realistic" proportioned skeles aren't exactly much fun for assembly/durability.

 RustyNumber wrote:
Quite timely for Wargames Atlantic to be producing a box of skele horses and chariots, even if they're more Achaean themed. Anyone who has assembled the WA skele infantry knows that "realistic" proportioned skeles aren't exactly much fun for assembly/durability.

At least it should give ToW fans some pause when a better kit costs like 1/3 of GW's 25 year old skellies ... nah probably not.

The 1998 Skeletons felt dated the day they were released, replacing the much better Skeletons Horde models before them. I was quite shocked when I bought them when they came out. The good thing they had for them tho was that they came in box of 20, better than the box of 8 from before.

Adding the TK sprue to them did little to the skeleton frame itself, the extra heads were a nice touch but the main body (and the horrible poses) were still bad. Plus the weak waist joint. And they came only 16 to a box due to the extra TK sprue.

If all we get in the new rumored box for TK is the "dragon" thing, I think I'm gonna pass. I already have a great converted King on Warsphinx with a huge throne on it (that look infinitely more stable than that thing on the dragon's back) that will be perfect as a centerpiece. My army is already quite immense so I'm not looking at adding any of the old stuff, thanks GW, but no thanks. Any other kit refresh would have been a sale for me and that dragon isn't really what I was looking for in a RK army. A Bone Giant/Hierotitan kit would have been massively more welcomed I think, creating the only missing unit in the old book (that probably gonna get deleted now if they don't have one planned).

Seeing all the cool stuff from AoS in the past few years (especially most of the big monsters/centerpiece), that dragon is a swing and a miss for me. I really want to like it because it's a new TK model, but I only like individual parts of it (just like it was designed). Most parts I love, but together it's quite incoherent.

The Bone Giant should be safe. GW can still sell the old, dancing model. Might even be a good candidate for getting cast in resin now. The armored torso was a pretty heavy lump of metal.

Given that we won't get a lot of new models, it stands to reason that the Hierotitan part won't make it to the rules unless GW does switch materials and also adds a few conversion bits to the model to turn the Bone Giant Necrolith Colossus™ into a Hierotitan. Might as well throw in the bow option the Bone Giant model never had.

GW did a great job with that dragon, not only fits the TK aesthetics, but it's perfectly sized for stacking, and it won't be overcosted at all.

Now let's hope GW releases the traditional Bretonian flying steamship. Surely the sculptors can inspire themselves in the Kharadron designs.

M.

Combat Phase gubbins today.

Hopefully it’ll include the difference between being pushed back and breaking.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Combat Phase gubbins today.

Hopefully it’ll include the difference between being pushed back and breaking.

I'm holding my breath for the step up rule.

I just saw something new on an old rumour over on tga.
The old rumour was that "we would have Bretonia and TK, then 6 months after that Empire/Kislev vs Orcs. Another 6 months after that Dwarvens vs High Elves" coming from a spanish streamer that is supposed to have a contact inside GW called miniaturewar

The new bit I haven't seen before is that they apparently also said "that the whole team working on TOW left and the current one has been working for quite a small time. Like 6 months only."

As far as I know nothing of this is confirmed yet so add salt as needed, just thought it was interesting so wanted to share

i've seen the first half of that (not about Kislev though, I only heard Empire v Orcs). The changeover in the team is new. I know a couple people linked to the project early on are no longer there, I believe Louise Sugden was working on it at one point for example, shes obviously gone. Others seem to still be employed there - mark bedfords linkedin seems to suggest he still works there, as does Rob Aldermans, and Andy Hoare is very obviously still there as we've seen him discuss going ons with other games as recently as a few weeks ago.

we know for sure that 2 of the miniature designers that worked on the TK Dragon left GW in the last year (confirmed by those persons)
some others that left confirmed to be at least partly involved (like creating the map)

the whole team is a little suspicious as that there should be a dedicated TOW team is kind of new
rather that a lot of the FW/SG team members who worked on TOW left

I was disappointed to see the new bone dragon model. Regardless of how the model looks, I was hoping that TOW would bring back a focus to reasonable-sized units and a slightly smaller, tighter game than the sprawling mess that The End Times became (and to help differeniate it from the AoS trend of Bigger and Moar). But giant stompy monsters need gigantic units to chomp on, and it looks as if GW are going for style over substance once more. Not to mention that it's an ill omen portending a steadfast refusal to update decades-old kits sorely in need of it (TK skeletons), in favour of big expensive models nobody asked for.

Will we be getting a rules preview today?

Twilight Pathways wrote:
I was disappointed to see the new bone dragon model. Regardless of how the model looks, I was hoping that TOW would bring back a focus to reasonable-sized units and a slightly smaller, tighter game than the sprawling mess that The End Times became (and to help differeniate it from the AoS trend of Bigger and Moar). But giant stompy monsters need gigantic units to chomp on, and it looks as if GW are going for style over substance once more. Not to mention that it's an ill omen portending a steadfast refusal to update decades-old kits sorely in need of it (TK skeletons), in favour of big expensive models nobody asked for.

I dunno, my ideal for what WHFB should be is basically a lord, a couple regiments of 15-20 infantry, a regiment of 5-10 specailists or cavalry, and a warmachine or monster. Adjust as needed (skaven or orcs might have twice as many units or just larger units, an army like kislev or bretonnia would be mostly guys on horses, etc). In that context, the bone dragon is fine, it takes up both your monster and your lord slot. Add a couple units of skellies and a unit of tomb guard or tomb knights or chariots or whatever and you're good.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/11/20/old-world-almanack-fight-the-good-fight-in-the-combat-phase/

Quite a lot to digest, so will return in due course.

Yes, the To Hit Chart is back and it’s as beardy as ever.

Did WarCom team just call us beardy grognards? To our face?

quick reaction:

I dislike the weapon skill chart. Both the weapon skill and wound charts were made in a way which is basically unapproachable in terms of easy memorization. Whoever was responsible for them should be ashamed.

The combat results table and the break test system is actually awesome, kinda dig it (though I don't understand what is meant by "overkill"? based on my understanding of how combat works, if you generated excess wounds then you have basically wiped the unit, so why would it matter at that point? Unless it comes into play when you're determining results of multiple combats?). I also like the restrain/follow up/pursue/overrun system.

Also like that your entire first rank can fight, but anyone not in base to base with the enemy only gets to make 1 attack. I'm not sure if this sufficiently incentives taking wider units or not, but it certainly fixes the issue that we had in the past where you *could* take wider units, but most opponents knew that if they fielded a minimum 5-wide unit they could force their opponents wider units to waste combat potential.

So, my brains on this.

The Good

Just the front rank fights, with exceptions.

Wider Frontaged units assumed to swamp the enemy, so max attacking models even against a narrow frontage enemy unit. However, one One Attack if you’re not in direct BTB.

Pushed Back I really like. I can wallop High Ld troops, but remain pretty hard pushed to break them.

To Hit chart has changed, as whilst 5+ is the natural worst target, the best is now 2+ with sufficient gap

Combat Res seems unchanged, from memory.

The Frustratingly Ambiguous

We still don’t know what it means to be pushed back. Given Dwarfs are now going to be all but impossible to rout, I need to be able to push the stunty little sods back far enough that units either side can’t simply flank charge me in their turn and kick the snot out my otherwise victorious unit.


Concerned about Charge being an Initiative Modifier. In principle, OK sure. Not my preference, but I’ll play by the rules. However, I need to know more about how that actually works, lest classically Low Initiative armies never get to strike first.

Especially as the article’s wording is super ambiguous as to whether Step Up is still a thing or not. If it’s not, Low I armies, especially ones with middling Ld like Orcs are going to suck.

Overkill is for Characters who fight single other models so their attacks are not wasted within a unit

Like a Champion and a General fight, the General causes 5 wounds, the Champion only having 1 and dies but the 4 others are counted as Overkill Bonus and are not wasted

chaos0xomega wrote:
quick reaction:

I dislike the weapon skill chart. Both the weapon skill and wound charts were made in a way which is basically unapproachable in terms of easy memorization. Whoever was responsible for them should be ashamed.

The combat results table and the break test system is actually awesome, kinda dig it (though I don't understand what is meant by "overkill"? based on my understanding of how combat works, if you generated excess wounds then you have basically wiped the unit, so why would it matter at that point? Unless it comes into play when you're determining results of multiple combats?). I also like the restrain/follow up/pursue/overrun system.

Also like that your entire first rank can fight, but anyone not in base to base with the enemy only gets to make 1 attack. I'm not sure if this sufficiently incentives taking wider units or not, but it certainly fixes the issue that we had in the past where you *could* take wider units, but most opponents knew that if they fielded a minimum 5-wide unit they could force their opponents wider units to waste combat potential.

In 8th at least (and 30k 2.0!) Overkill is when you deal excess wounds in a challenge. So, my Lord challenges and your unit champ accepts. The Lord creams him, and does 4 wounds, but the puny champ only has 1 wound. That's 1 Wound for combat resolution and +3 for Overkill!

Ah, duh. That makes sense, used for challenges/duels. Got it, thanks for the clarification

chaos0xomega wrote:
quick reaction:

I dislike the weapon skill chart. Both the weapon skill and wound charts were made in a way which is basically unapproachable in terms of easy memorization. Whoever was responsible for them should be ashamed.

The combat results table and the break test system is actually awesome, kinda dig it (though I don't understand what is meant by "overkill"? based on my understanding of how combat works, if you generated excess wounds then you have basically wiped the unit, so why would it matter at that point? Unless it comes into play when you're determining results of multiple combats?). I also like the restrain/follow up/pursue/overrun system.

Also like that your entire first rank can fight, but anyone not in base to base with the enemy only gets to make 1 attack. I'm not sure if this sufficiently incentives taking wider units or not, but it certainly fixes the issue that we had in the past where you *could* take wider units, but most opponents knew that if they fielded a minimum 5-wide unit they could force their opponents wider units to waste combat potential.

Last bit is gonna depend on the unit. For say, Weedy Ickle Gobbos? A wide frontage can be useful for chucking out your Fanatics, and now for swamping the enemy. But comes with the risk of me being able to pile in with multiple charges to give you a right proper kicking.

So many charts is the impression I am getting

Kodos, wasn't that was standard for how challenges worked for several editions? I'm rusty.

 KidCthulhu wrote:
Kodos, wasn't that was standard for how challenges worked for several editions? I'm rusty.

me too, I am not sure if Overkill was there in all Editions and I somehow recall that it was not but cannot tell in which ones

chaos0xomega wrote:
quick reaction:
I dislike the weapon skill chart. Both the weapon skill and wound charts were made in a way which is basically unapproachable in terms of easy memorization. Whoever was responsible for them should be ashamed.

Wound chart is the same it+'s always been except the cutoff was moved to more than 6 difference
WS chart is 2+ if more than double, 5+ if less than half