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Have they said any more about the armies not included, I thought at one point there was going to be a 'legends' style PDF at launch for them but they weren't going to get any continued support across the project as currently envisioned.

I was suprised to see that they didn't bundle them in a book or that everyone also got basic 'as of 8th ed' PDF.

Mozzamanx wrote:
Wasn't the War Altar commissioned after the Great War by Magnus? That one shouldn't be here either AFAIK.

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GW quoted a base size for it on facebook. Doesn't mean its coming back, or it could be being replaced with a new version that isn't the volkmar version but I'd say chances are fairly good if the social media team have base details it should be in the FoF book.


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 Tastyfish wrote:
Have they said any more about the armies not included, I thought at one point there was going to be a 'legends' style PDF at launch for them but they weren't going to get any continued support across the project as currently envisioned.

I was suprised to see that they didn't bundle them in a book or that everyone also got basic 'as of 8th ed' PDF.

That would have been nicer than the pity pdfs.

If I do find I play tow with an sort of regularity, I will get my own version printed with the rules for all the 'missing' armies. That way I at least will feel like I have a single complete collection of rules to play this edition with.

Mozzamanx wrote:
Wasn't the War Altar commissioned after the Great War by Magnus? That one shouldn't be here either AFAIK.

Some models might just be considered generic enough that they are repurposed. So its no longer the War Alter but the Alter of War etc....

 Overread wrote:

Mozzamanx wrote:
Wasn't the War Altar commissioned after the Great War by Magnus? That one shouldn't be here either AFAIK.

Some models might just be considered generic enough that they are repurposed. So its no longer the War Alter but the Alter of War etc....

In what way is it generic?
It's a totally unique, one-of-a-kind artefact. It is absolutely plastered in religious paraphernalia that is currently fuelling an Empire-wide civil war. It has a 10ft tall, solid gold statue of a Griffon. It is being ridden by the pope, who incidentally won't be born for 200 years. It also has a plaque with the words 'Emperor Karl Franz' emblazoned on them, another element that is 200 years premature.
On the other hand, why can't the Luminark just be rejiggered? Maybe it's now a War Wagon with Von Retcon's Magnificent Magnifying Array?

To clarify my point, if you're allegedly going to set something at a particular time, then you should actually go to the effort of making sure all elements fit the setting. *Neither* the War Wagon nor the Magic Altars should be present. If expecting a new model range to fit the period is unrealistic, and in my opinion it is, then just don't set it in the past. This could have very easily been a WFB 9th Edition and just continue as it was, but instead they've taken an approach whereby the lore will be used to prop up management decisions and dropped when inconvenient.

In fairness, the War Altar could feasibly appear ~30 years after the date set in the rulebook, and given what GW has said about jumping around the timeline a bit I can certainly see this as a nod towards "the next time period we'll tackle is in the aftermath of the Great War Against Chaos"


EDIT: It could also just a lot easier to justify retconning the War Altar into existance in this time period and not the Magic ones because the Colleges of Magic do not exist yet and that's a lot larger of a retcon than "Actually Magnus wasn't the one the commissioned the Altar, that was a mistruth told to add more prestige to it by tying it together with such a legendary Hero of the Empire"

 Tastyfish wrote:
Have they said any more about the armies not included, I thought at one point there was going to be a 'legends' style PDF at launch for them but they weren't going to get any continued support across the project as currently envisioned.

I was suprised to see that they didn't bundle them in a book or that everyone also got basic 'as of 8th ed' PDF.

Word is that the PDF is still coming, maybe not on launch day but soon enough. They've included some base sizes for those factions in their random postings. Some of the scuttlebutt from content creators who have seen the PDF is that they're not phoned in and are competitive alongside the supported factions. Remains to be seen how that pans out but the initial impression appeared cautiously optimistic on their viability.

Is anyone else curious what Skeleton skirmishers might be?
I hope they have javelins...

 Astmeister wrote:
Is anyone else curious what Skeleton skirmishers might be?
I hope they have javelins...

Be nice to have some new units like that - fits with the lore - the armies of the various cities had very diffferent troops

I don't get why the are calling the 2200s a Golden age - the Empire is split and at war with itself and part of the entire point of the Great War against Chaos is that it unites under Magnus....

Bretonnia seems to be having fun though.

Voss wrote:

The Black Adder wrote:
Interesting to see that the Hellcannon is on the list. I half expected them to say it was an End Times model and therefore not include it. I'm pleasantly surprised.

Eh? Hellcannons go back to at least 6th edition and Storm of Chaos. Background goes back even further, iirc, with roots in the Chaos Dwarf Mortars and 'Bazukas' in the original Slaves to Darkness army list for Khorne.
Nice of them to keep the last base size for it, however.

Anything Storm of Chaos/ Archaon related is end times, no? It certainly isn't pre siege of Prague.

Whilst there was certainly chaos artillery/ warmachines prior to the creation of the Hellcannon, both in the fiction and as physical models, I remember the Hellcannon as being something created at Archaon's request.

Did I miss something or did GW's Facebook page omit sharing Dark Elf base sizes (other "legacy" armies were all previewed).

Also, should I be concerned?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfRUV9KA1ZM

Battle report for free on youtube

Dudeface wrote:
Because some of what you stated isn't opinion, you're presenting assumptions or outright fabrications as facts

Then let's review the points you find contentious:

'GW wrote it'
Indisputably a fact, and definitely qualifies as a red flag (as per the original request) given GW's rules quality.

'They are releasing ancient plastic kits at a markup'
Also a fact. While old kits returning was expected, I for one hoped for some measure of awareness from GW about their pricing for these, given the age and quality difference - as well as the fact that any costs for producing them short of the plastic and time used would be long since paid off by now.
Coupling this with the lack of new models made for the release, compared with older editions of WHFB and other specialist games, I argue that this too qualifies as a red flag.

'The rules follow 40k's model (multiple overpriced books rendered obsolete in short order)'
Alright, this one I will grant you is a touch presumptuous - I should instead have said 'likely rendered obsolete in short order', since we have seen this happen mutliple times with GW publications; spelling errors, formatting errors, outright rules errors/contradictions etc that require day one correction. These kinds of errors happen, but for a company of GW's size and that charges the prices they do for these 'premium' books, it is not acceptable.
The 'multiple overpriced books' part, though, is a fact. Folk can argue til they are blue in the face that you don't need the Arcane Journals, but the fact remains that you do need two others at minimum, and the Journals are quite literally day one DLC that have no reason to exist, beyond greed, as part of the launch. Blindingly scarlet flag.

'It's as obvious a minimum effort nostalgia cash-grab as one can get. Don't fall for it.'
Yes, this one is the opinion - and one that I believe is sound given the evidence at hand.

Dudeface wrote:
you managed to get H.B.M.C actually sticking up for GW books because you falsely presented your conjecture as fact.

Something that surprises me just as much as you, given that I can particularly remember him calling GW out for the exact kinds of error-driven obsolesence I'm talking about with the latest Tyranid book. I don't think it's conjecture to expect the same sort of thing here given that the book sales model is identical.

Dudeface wrote:
I was asking people to respect your contempt for the product and to move on as to not have pages of people bickering over something that you'll never agree on.

Inviting respect for my position is not how your post came across. As for the 'pages of bickering', I'm defending my viewpoint and the evidence that led me there. Being told that the evidence I'm seeing is not correct, and those counterpoints being based on flawed or outright incorrect premises, compels me to respond. For example, I'm yet to see a convincing rebuttal to the fact that other specialist games produced more at their release than TOW has, when the onus on GW to win people back with TOW is, or at least should be, higher.

The Black Adder wrote:

Voss wrote:

The Black Adder wrote:
Interesting to see that the Hellcannon is on the list. I half expected them to say it was an End Times model and therefore not include it. I'm pleasantly surprised.

Eh? Hellcannons go back to at least 6th edition and Storm of Chaos. Background goes back even further, iirc, with roots in the Chaos Dwarf Mortars and 'Bazukas' in the original Slaves to Darkness army list for Khorne.
Nice of them to keep the last base size for it, however.

Anything Storm of Chaos/ Archaon related is end times, no?

No. End Times (particularly capitalized as you first did) is specifically the series of books/releases at the end of the WFB's lifespan (8th edition). Its also a ~20 year old model (Storm of Chaos was 2004), so even without that context it still read really strange.

Oh you can apparently with a command check reform your unit after killing an opponent unit.
Deathstars incoming?

Also strength does not modify armour.

 Thargrim wrote:
Anyone else glad the celestial hurricanum isn't coming back? I hope in this earlier iteration of the empire they downplay the magic and lean more into smoke belching war engines or something else.

Agreed. Does not look like something anyone would drag to the battlefield.

I heard from German retailer Taschengelddieb that stock allocations for tomorrow's preorders will be low.

I expect most stuff to sell out quickly, especially the army sets. Preorder starts tomorrow at 10am BST, so please plan accordingly.

Afaik the products will get reprinted, but judging from the Legions Imperialis release, it might take a couple of months.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/01/05/old-world-almanack-what-exactly-is-an-arcane-journal/

Bit on Arcane Journals and this bit:

Arcane Journals are not required to play your chosen faction in Warhammer: The Old World . The two main army lists contain a complete set of rules for each army, including unique spells that supplement the eight lores in the core rulebook (for instance, the Lore of Nehekara or the Lore of the Lady), unique abilities (like Knightly Vows and Resurrecting the Fallen), and faction specific special rules (Arrows of Asaph, Blessings of the Lady, etc) and magic items.

So Arcane Journal does not include unique lores but those are in Army Books.

 Astmeister wrote:
Oh you can apparently with a command check reform your unit after killing an opponent unit.
Deathstars incoming?

Also strength does not modify armour.

That’s always been in the rules I think? Pretty sure it was in 6th.

Dudeface wrote:
It's not quite the same though in this case. It's like asking why someone can't use Tau minis in Horus Heresy.

Your argument is unrelated. Kodos' is "You knew what you were getting into, so have no one to blame but yourself!", and I'm not ok with that line of reasoning.

Yours is closer to "The Skaven aren't around as they're not that big of a deal in the setting!", which I'm not arguing against.

 stahly wrote:
I heard from German retailer Taschengelddieb that stock allocations for tomorrow's preorders will be low.

I expect most stuff to sell out quickly, especially the army sets. Preorder starts tomorrow at 10am BST, so please plan accordingly.

Afaik the products will get reprinted, but judging from the Legions Imperialis release, it might take a couple of months.

Seems to be a common thread popping up from FLGS from across lots of regions.

Chances are, there will be no reprints of the cards, as per Necromunda releases. I might abandon purchasing anything but the two main sets so nothing that goes out of stock holds up the rest of the order up (and thus seeing more items go out of stock in the meantime)

I'm sure someone will put up a custom version of the cards in due time and the books will have to be reprinted if GW want to continue to sell the game going forward.

 Dreamchild wrote:
Did I miss something or did GW's Facebook page omit sharing Dark Elf base sizes (other "legacy" armies were all previewed).

Also, should I be concerned?

They weren't planning to reveal base sizes yet but it kind of snowballed after they answered few specific questions. FB guys were updating base sizes in real time and will likely continue to do so today.

I'm sure someone will be along shortly to explain why the game not being available to buy is a good thing.

Why is Waaaaagh magic one of the eight core lores but Lore of the Lady and Nekehara is army specific lore? Weird.

Also Tomb Kings look very weak still. They still cannot march. They still cannot flee. They crumble which is much worse now that all other armies are virtualy stubborn. Their core units are still all gak, even the chariot impact hits seem to have lost AP.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
I'm sure someone will be along shortly to explain why the game not being available to buy is a good thing.

You'll appreciate it more if you have to fight like a rabid animal to get hold of a copy.

Anyone else notice in the free pdf download recreation from the Arcane Journal, ' The Battle of Matorea', the little date code down the bottom of the page, right hand side? It says 30/06/23. That's the pdf generation date. That's 6 months ago. Wonder if that helps determine or estimate when these books were written, finished, sent to the printers, and/or how long distribution takes. I find that interesting.

Also the recreation scenario references internally other pages of info needed to make your army composition. Interesting as well.

I mean considering every single new boxed set by GW has sold out pretty fast these days the idea that 3d party stores "won't get enough stock" isn't too shocking.


We can argue that GW not over-producing and selling out isn't a bad thing as far as GW's bottom line is concerned and if GW do sell out then it at least means the game is meeting or exceeding GW's estimated demand. That means more chance of continued investment beyond the first development and release cycle.

Restocking really depends though - too slow and some regions might stall growth so what starts out positive ends up negative.




The second hand will also be curious to watch. On the one hand GW producing again means prices on what GW is making should come down; but if GW's stocks dry up fast those prices could go even higher as there's active demand.

Ah good, "Skeleton and Tomb Guard chariots". I was hoping there'd be a more elite version of chariots (hopefully not limited to that specific list)

I just saw element games has announced they will not be doing online pre-orders due to low allocation.

Was that leaked photo of flat-packed tomb kings boxes seriously the entire first print run of product as some joked?

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
In fairness, the War Altar could feasibly appear ~30 years after the date set in the rulebook, and given what GW has said about jumping around the timeline a bit I can certainly see this as a nod towards "the next time period we'll tackle is in the aftermath of the Great War Against Chaos"

The time period that GW is jumping around in is the 100 year period befire the Siege of praag. They made clear they won't be doing the Siege of praag itself for a very long time and they are not working towards it, they will not jump to a point after it.


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 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Ah good, "Skeleton and Tomb Guard chariots". I was hoping there'd be a more elite version of chariots (hopefully not limited to that specific list)

Disappointing semi-reveal to me. Was hoping tomb guard would be core in the Royal Host but seems I ts a chariot focused army instead.


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Also another article up, GW is endorsing unit fillers

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/01/05/old-world-almanack-how-to-bulk-out-your-regiments-with-unit-fillers/

Isn't that redundant when they say they'll sell you enough for a full regiment in a box?