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 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Considering the price of tin (major ingredient in pewter) has more or less tripled from 30 years ago I consider GW prices on metal to not be that out of line on one hand, whereas on the other I don't see why they are still producing in metal at all if the cost has gone up so much.

Because they want to reuse the old models/moulds and everyone hates finecast.

All the new stuff and the larger kits is FW resin.

I think its also because they likely need this project to get into the open and start earning money so that the staff can justify spending on it. Old kits revised taps into the nostalgia element but also likely requires less investment to polish up and get going again than totally new kits.

So if they can get a LOT of armies out at once in a very short span of time compared to trying to get multiple fully new armies out which might well just be pushing the release date further and further away and creating a bigger investment bubble that has to be satisfied.

Though i prefer the aesthetic of the original models, I'll take Kings of war versions for half the price lol

WorldEdgePlayer wrote:
Holy gak I just saw the rules for gyrocopters. 60pts/model and can be taken in units of 6! They fly (9) and have a steam gun (breath template that does S3 AP-1). Imagine placing 6 templates over a unit!!

Aren't they like $90 now?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Lord Zarkov wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Considering the price of tin (major ingredient in pewter) has more or less tripled from 30 years ago I consider GW prices on metal to not be that out of line on one hand, whereas on the other I don't see why they are still producing in metal at all if the cost has gone up so much.

Because they want to reuse the old models/moulds and everyone hates finecast.

All the new stuff and the larger kits is FW resin.

Good old Pb82 has held steady for the last 10 years.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/675876/average-prices-lead-worldwide/

Lead, both delicious and nutritious.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Skimask Mohawk wrote:
Though i prefer the aesthetic of the original models, I'll take Kings of war versions for half the price lol

https://www.perry-miniatures.com/product/wr-50-foot-knights-1450-1500/

https://fireforge-games.com/military-orders/9-teutonic-knights.html

Just saying.

Battle report - Empire vs TK.

Removed.

The price of the tomb king box 8s ridiculous given most of those are 20+ year old sculpts. More if they never redid the horses.

Wayniac wrote:
The price of the tomb king box 8s ridiculous given most of those are 20+ year old sculpts. More if they never redid the horses.

pricing generally has put me off bothering, not so much the price of the models, I have plenty of them, but the whole pricing means far less likely to get much traction locally so becomes a waste of time bothering

“Your estimated wait time is: more than an hour”
Life is too short for this.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

Good old Pb82 has held steady for the last 10 years.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/675876/average-prices-lead-worldwide/

Lead, both delicious and nutritious.

GW changed from lead to a tin based white alloy around 1997, 1998. (Probably because lead a was a wee bit poisonous and they were trying to market to younder audiences. Might also explain my hair loss.)

Tin has skyrocketed as can be seen here https://tradingeconomics.com/commodity/tin

Looks to have quadrupled in price since 2000.

I bawked at the price too when I saw the Ushabti.

Being able to justify why they are so expensive doesn't mean I'm going to get them though, it's still too much!

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

WorldEdgePlayer wrote:
Holy gak I just saw the rules for gyrocopters. 60pts/model and can be taken in units of 6! They fly (9) and have a steam gun (breath template that does S3 AP-1). Imagine placing 6 templates over a unit!!

Aren't they like $90 now?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Lord Zarkov wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Considering the price of tin (major ingredient in pewter) has more or less tripled from 30 years ago I consider GW prices on metal to not be that out of line on one hand, whereas on the other I don't see why they are still producing in metal at all if the cost has gone up so much.

Because they want to reuse the old models/moulds and everyone hates finecast.

All the new stuff and the larger kits is FW resin.

Good old Pb82 has held steady for the last 10 years.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/675876/average-prices-lead-worldwide/

Lead, both delicious and nutritious.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Skimask Mohawk wrote:
Though i prefer the aesthetic of the original models, I'll take Kings of war versions for half the price lol

https://www.perry-miniatures.com/product/wr-50-foot-knights-1450-1500/

https://fireforge-games.com/military-orders/9-teutonic-knights.html

Just saying.

Woops meant to say ushabti as the original models in question, but those are some great alternatives for those factions!

WorldEdgePlayer wrote:
Black orcs with shields have 3+ armor save. "Look at me. I am the knight now."

I did wonder who all was getting 'full plate.' It got mentioned in the promo video that the dragon had the equivalent of full plate at least a half a dozen times, and that made me start pondering.

The low Initiative armies have to have something with no step up. Not sure trying to tough it out will work, but at least they realized that black orcs (& etc) just wouldn't work without changes

I watched someone at my FLGS order 2 Bret core sets, the new Pegasus bsb, and a handful of characters. So there’s definitely people willing to buy some older kits lol

Welp, just dropped 200+ dollars on the Rule book and the Force of Fantasy and Ravaging Hordes....

I'm honestly surprised how little hesitation I had to do it given how I can sometimes have stuff lingering in my cart for a good long while.

Voss wrote:

WorldEdgePlayer wrote:
Black orcs with shields have 3+ armor save. "Look at me. I am the knight now."

I did wonder who all was getting 'full plate.' It got mentioned in the promo video that the dragon had the equivalent of full plate at least a half a dozen times, and that made me wonder.

The low Initiative armies have to have something with no step up. Not sure trying to tough it out will work, but at least they realized that black orcs (& etc) just wouldn't work without changes

Black orcs worked before step up was a thing though. When game lethality isn't up the roof front rank doesn't die generally anyway.

1 a, 3+ 3+ stats will generally mean front rank doesnt die(indeed less than half). That's before save. If you don't hit or wound on 3+...

Gert wrote:Looking at Bretonnia specifically, you could pretty easily kitbash most of the metal kits anyway.
Do Grail Knights look all that different than the plastic ones? Stick some fancy gubbins on them and paint them a bit differently.
Heck, in TW: WH the big difference is the Grail Knights have shiny magic lances because you can't actually tell them apart otherwise.
The only real issue I can see is Yeoman Cavalry.

Tomb Kings obviously Ushabti aren't exactly something you can make so that sucks.

I found several STLs of Anubis style statues on thingiverse that could easily work with a little bit of weathering.

Lord Zarkov wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Considering the price of tin (major ingredient in pewter) has more or less tripled from 30 years ago I consider GW prices on metal to not be that out of line on one hand, whereas on the other I don't see why they are still producing in metal at all if the cost has gone up so much.

Because they want to reuse the old models/moulds and everyone hates finecast.

All the new stuff and the larger kits is FW resin.

I wonder why they can't make new molds for resin casting. They have the master models and molds for metal casting have to be replaced every so often.

I assume it's a bit of work and the initial investment, but it just seems silly to bother people with metal models when GW effectively dropped the material years ago and only really keeps it around for Lord of the Rings and made to order runs.

Captain Cosmo wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

Good old Pb82 has held steady for the last 10 years.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/675876/average-prices-lead-worldwide/

Lead, both delicious and nutritious.

GW changed from lead to a tin based white alloy around 1997, 1998. (Probably because lead a was a wee bit poisonous and they were trying to market to younder audiences. Might also explain my hair loss.)

Tin has skyrocketed as can be seen here https://tradingeconomics.com/commodity/tin

Looks to have quadrupled in price since 2000.

I bawked at the price too when I saw the Ushabti.

Being able to justify why they are so expensive doesn't mean I'm going to get them though, it's still too much!

First made to order, now Old World. Might be time to switch to casting in uranium. That's got to be cheaper at this point.

tneva82 wrote:

Voss wrote:

WorldEdgePlayer wrote:
Black orcs with shields have 3+ armor save. "Look at me. I am the knight now."

I did wonder who all was getting 'full plate.' It got mentioned in the promo video that the dragon had the equivalent of full plate at least a half a dozen times, and that made me wonder.

The low Initiative armies have to have something with no step up. Not sure trying to tough it out will work, but at least they realized that black orcs (& etc) just wouldn't work without changes

Black orcs worked before step up was a thing though. When game lethality isn't up the roof front rank doesn't die generally anyway.

1 a, 3+ 3+ stats will generally mean front rank doesnt die(indeed less than half). That's before save. If you don't hit or wound on 3+...

I played dark elves and chaos too much in the old days. '1 attack' wasn't ever a thing in my armies, at least not in my real combat units. Frenzy, hydra banner, two hand weapons, etc, etc.

Did I miss something? Are the FW Bret characters not up for pre-order in the US?

While the price of tin and the other metals used in the pewter mix have gone up, it's only GW that charges astronomical prices for the metal models "just because". Other metal companies like Reaper and the Perry brothers still charge reasonable prices.

Anyway, idiot that I am got busy with lunch and stuff around the house, lost track of time, and now here I am trying to access the GW site 40 minutes after the preorders started, and I currently have an estimated 33 minute wait. Doubt I'll be able to get anything at all from the GW site, so I'll probably have to wait several weeks for the restock. I may swing by the Warhammer Cafe on launch day to see if they have any of the stuff available to the general public.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

zombie_sky_diver wrote:
Did I miss something? Are the FW Bret characters not up for pre-order in the US?

You might have to go to the New and Exclusive section to find them separately. Someone mentioned something like that earlier.

There's no "Old World" section on Warhammer Digital, and I can't find it in any of the other sections either.

zombie_sky_diver wrote:
Did I miss something? Are the FW Bret characters not up for pre-order in the US?

I couldn't find them either and that's what I waited in the queue to grab...

Did the dice already sell out? Sat in queue for an hour to buy the sleeves, cards, and map.

Well here is BIG surprise. there are NO savage orcs in O&G army list. There are night goblins and spider goblins but no savage orcs. There goes the rumor that AoS is squating Bonesplitaz.

WorldEdgePlayer wrote:
Well here is BIG surprise. there are NO savage orcs in O&G army list. There are night goblins and spider goblins but no savage orcs. There goes the rumor that AoS is squating Bonesplitaz.

I think I heard Savage orcs were an upgrade to the Boar Boyz in the previous video posted here?

There's more than just savage orc boar riders though, they have infantry and a number of other units. Anyway, surprising they went with night and spider gobbos but not fully featured savage orcs.

Had 1 of my Bret boxes tentatively canceled as the retailer I ordered my second box from oversold their inventory and are apparently being told no more will be made or provided, which is contrary to what GW said previously but I guess we'll see what happens.

Yeah, I was imagining the other options might be upgrades to other unit entries in a similar fashion. I don't know where folks are seeing the Army lists and can't really make anything out on the video, so I only know what's read out.

Uff. Get your free hopium here. (Also is that just a screen capture shot from the total war game?)

Animosity is gone from the greenskins, but the orcs and goblins (but not night goblins) have mini-frenzy in that they have to declare a charge on a 4+ if in range (impetuous), which the Black Orcs can limit to some degree.

Savage orcs are still in, just under the same entry as regular boyz - you can give regular boyz frenzy which then unlocks the savage orcs weapons like big stikkas etc.

Didn't expect the main rulebook to go out of stock (U.S.) but... here we are.

Well, hmm. I think I'll just wait, read up on some army summaries online and do a thorough inventory of my old armies. See how things shake out.