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Aren't Chaos Dwarfs a legacy faction in TOW? What makes you'll think they'll be doing anything where that faction is concerned, bar releasing their PDF?

Chaos Dwarfs were always pretty much a legacy faction in terms of general events - they just stayed there, far, far away and minded their own business.
And, unless GW changed their plans, they will stay that way in TOW - too far, too isolated to be cared about.

 Dysartes wrote:
Aren't Chaos Dwarfs a legacy faction in TOW? What makes you'll think they'll be doing anything where that faction is concerned, bar releasing their PDF?

Rumors are Chorfs get a full release for AoS 4, so maybe they just meant wait and see the AoS model line

Look, if the chorfs want a dragon, they’ll get one. By enslaving it, like they do everything else. The chaos manticore already has an “unruly” type table to roll on so doing something like that for a bound dragon would make sense.

Lest we forget, free roaming dragons were on the allies list for regular non-chaos dwarfs a while back…

Most armies have an excuse for wanting/needing a dragon.


Daughters of Khaine should have traded and tamed a few from the Dark Elf remains; Ossiarchs should have built a few (heck in Ghoul Slayer there is an undead faction running around with construct bone dragons); Sylvaneth would probably have some huge living tree beetle dragon; Lumineth clearly need a furry eastern dragon

A dwarf dragon?

Reaper's Wyrmgear has a bit more elegance to it

 Manfred von Drakken wrote:

pgmason wrote:

leopard wrote:
so essentially zero point taking the larger base monsters if there are Empire players about?

Not really. Its pretty much impossible to one-shot a monster with a cannon. Most seem to do D3+1, while monsters tend to have about 6 wounds, and ridden mosters add to the character's wounds.

The obvious retort is: Have you ever seen an Empire player field less than two cannons? Because as an Empire player myself, I don't believe I have.

The man speaks truth!

WorldEdgePlayer wrote:

 BertBert wrote:
Does it still differentiate between rider and monstrous mount and, if so, does a rider's invunerable save translate to its mount?

Monster mounts now add T and W to the rider and so far I have managed to recognized a big problem in this game and that is dragons. They are simply way too strong.
Lord on star dragon or chaos dragon is at the minimum T6 W10 AS2+ WS5+ fly(10) and deals at a minimum 10 S6 AP2 attacks. That is with NO magic items taken.

With fly 10 inches they can pick and choose their fights and are simply too strong to bring down. They do cost around 500 points but that is 500 points that they deny from their opponent and also means they can bring 2 dragons in 2000pts list.

Most armies have no way to deal with this. And cannons will not help you. This is looking troubling.

I'm going to have to hoist the BS banner. You will be limited to 0-1, the same way the Brets can only take up to one duke.

Voss wrote:

 Manfred von Drakken wrote:

pgmason wrote:

leopard wrote:
so essentially zero point taking the larger base monsters if there are Empire players about?

Not really. Its pretty much impossible to one-shot a monster with a cannon. Most seem to do D3+1, while monsters tend to have about 6 wounds, and ridden mosters add to the character's wounds.

The obvious retort is: Have you ever seen an Empire player field less than two cannons? Because as an Empire player myself, I don't believe I have.

I prefer a mix. One cannon, 2 mortars and a hellblaster. (With the hellblaster first on the list to get cut. Not sure I like its misfire potential)

Hmmm... see below, I'm unimpressed with hellblasters, but taking two GCs and two mortars...that's what I want, if allowed. Unfortunately, if I have to choose, it's a second GC long before a first mortar.

lord_blackfang wrote:It's not a particular hardship to bring 6 cannon tho.

This is also very likely to be army composition-limited. Brets get 0-1 field trebuchet per 1000 points. Expect similar restrictions. As an Empire player, I hope very dearly that it's 0-1 great cannon per 1000 points, not 0-1 piece of artillery. GCs are the only means we have of dealing with nasty beasties like necrosphinxes, and I'd still very much love to lob S2 pieplates from my mortars. I probably won't see any skaven, but the memories of removing them in job lots!!!



/EDIT/ Yo, admin! When do we get a TOW forum? I think we're getting a bit past the single news thread, at this stage?

It's 0-3 Great Cannon or Mortar and 0-1 Volley or Rocket per 1000 pts, so twice that in normal games. I don't think Dwarfs have any meaningful limits either.

 Overread wrote:
furry eastern dragon

woah.. that actually sounds scary because of the 'furry' part, probably because I've been online too much.

I always hoped for a chinese serpentine dragon, a bit like the wood elves one' to get a new version and make it like one of those.

 Leopold Helveine wrote:

 Overread wrote:
furry eastern dragon

woah.. that actually sounds scary because of the 'furry' part, probably because I've been online too much.

I always hoped for a chinese serpentine dragon, a bit like the wood elves one' to get a new version and make it like one of those.

Darn furries spoiling everything!


I mean technically they already got their furry fox model archer

So yeah full serpentine eastern dragon! Like the ones out of the new Warhammer 3 Total War game; but with suitably Lumineth design elements and such

When I started out with high elves I found it incredibly tragic how the Dragon Princes could not awaken the dragons of old, and instead tormented their poor horses with crazy dragon armour.

Dragons were supposed to be a very rare sight for the first editions of FB if i recall corectly. They were sleeping on ulthuan, and more or less hunted to extinction in the old world.
Anyone know if dragons were more common or vital at the time of this game?

 march10k wrote:

I'm going to have to hoist the BS banner. You will be limited to 0-1, the same way the Brets can only take up to one duke.

0-1 Prince or Archmage per 1000pts, 50% character limit.

High elf Prince with full plate armor, shield, lance, Star dragon, Dragon helm, Seeds of rebirth 462pts
High elf Archmage with lv4, Star dragon, Seeds of rebirth, Silver wand 510pts

Easy two Star dragons in a 2000 point list.

 Overread wrote:


So yeah full serpentine eastern dragon! Like the ones out of the new Warhammer 3 Total War game; but with suitably Lumineth design elements and such

Would love to have something like this (from ultima online back in the day) https://wiki.stratics.com/index.php?title=UO:Serpentine_Dragon#/media/File:UO-CC-Bodytype-103-0.gif

lord_blackfang wrote:It's 0-3 Great Cannon or Mortar and 0-1 Volley or Rocket per 1000 pts, so twice that in normal games. I don't think Dwarfs have any meaningful limits either.

Source? I would LOVE that, two of each mortars and GCs for me!

WorldEdgePlayer wrote:

 march10k wrote:

I'm going to have to hoist the BS banner. You will be limited to 0-1, the same way the Brets can only take up to one duke.

0-1 Prince or Archmage per 1000pts, 50% character limit.

High elf Prince with full plate armor, shield, lance, Star dragon, Dragon helm, Seeds of rebirth 462pts
High elf Archmage with lv4, Star dragon, Seeds of rebirth, Silver wand 510pts

Easy two Star dragons in a 2000 point list.

Per 1000 points? I find that hard to believe...but my great cannons welcome the challenge.

Source is the Man Reads Book On Camera genre of youtube.

 Overread wrote:
(heck in Ghoul Slayer there is an undead faction running around with construct bone dragons)

The faction is Flesh Eater Courts which, surprise surprise, have both the Zombie Dragon and Terrorgheist(both of which are described in Ghoulslayer) already. They're simply always referred to as Mordants, which is the in-universe name for Ghouls(and is literally a keyword on any Ghoul unit).

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Source is the Man Reads Book On Camera genre of youtube.

Yep, I found it. And Ulrican priests, that's a pleasant surprise! He'll be indispensable for adding D3 to greatsword charges, given how useless they are when not charging.

I saw it somewhere, probably a batrep, but can anyone remind me what "veteran" does to a unit? I vaguely recall it had to do with morale, but I don't remember thinking "oh, that's good." It strikes me as odd that it would be limited to 1 per 1000 if it costs points and doesn't do much.

GW have replied to someone asking on facebook about the magic cards and they've said its unlikely they will ever get reprinted.

This is from the GW social media account/team, so probably worth taking with a pinch of salt. But tbh this is expected as they don't reprint the necromunda ones either.

Bit disappointing, but pretty much expected.

WorldEdgePlayer wrote:

 march10k wrote:

I'm going to have to hoist the BS banner. You will be limited to 0-1, the same way the Brets can only take up to one duke.

0-1 Prince or Archmage per 1000pts, 50% character limit.

High elf Prince with full plate armor, shield, lance, Star dragon, Dragon helm, Seeds of rebirth 462pts
High elf Archmage with lv4, Star dragon, Seeds of rebirth, Silver wand 510pts

Easy two Star dragons in a 2000 point list.

Seem clear that the 'standard' tournament game will be 1999 points then.

GW very rarely reprints any of their game cards until a new edition comes around. It's a very strange situation because they clearly design the cards to work well with the game and yet every time we have this same dance that the cards run out of stock in the first 5 mins of going on sale and then you might find them in stores in person up and down the country if you hunt around.

Old World has seen at least one restocking wave so potentially they might drip feed more stock back onto the market; but it might only appear in physical stores not on the internet. GW seems to at least split its stock somewhat between the two and a few other stores do likewise to help keep their physical store customers happy and appeal to that market.

 Fayric wrote:
When I started out with high elves I found it incredibly tragic how the Dragon Princes could not awaken the dragons of old, and instead tormented their poor horses with crazy dragon armour.

Dragons were supposed to be a very rare sight for the first editions of FB if i recall corectly. They were sleeping on ulthuan, and more or less hunted to extinction in the old world.
Anyone know if dragons were more common or vital at the time of this game?

The High Elves are in a golden age for the most part, their decline not obvious to them as they are for the most part at peace - the Dark Elves have not been sighted for decades or more. So those dragons that are awake are more likely to be free to aid anyone warlike who leaves Ulthuan.

 Overread wrote:
GW very rarely reprints any of their game cards until a new edition comes around. It's a very strange situation because they clearly design the cards to work well with the game and yet every time we have this same dance that the cards run out of stock in the first 5 mins of going on sale and then you might find them in stores in person up and down the country if you hunt around.

Old World has seen at least one restocking wave so potentially they might drip feed more stock back onto the market; but it might only appear in physical stores not on the internet. GW seems to at least split its stock somewhat between the two and a few other stores do likewise to help keep their physical store customers happy and appeal to that market.

Yeah, its just another thing that eats into hobby time though. I could go chasing later releases, but as legacy sets will need to be printed anyway + the chances of the GW webstore being totally broken and not letting people in for several hours meaning that I could easily miss the one or two sets I really wanted, I might as wait and get some community made versions printed once they've released almost everything (someone will make them for sure)

I'd rather buy them, it saves time which I'm in more short supply off than the cost of the cards. But GW obviously get exactly the money they want from each sets release, they won't change their ways.

I'll probably add any of the pre-order cards I do manage to receive with the pile of LE heresy novels that are going to be sold off. Cut the FOMO collection down a bit.

I'm certainly not going to make the 4 hour-ish journey to the nearest hobby store on the off chance they have them on release day.

WorldEdgePlayer wrote:
A dwarf dragon?

Have an exalt for bringing up the best homm game in the series. Also, something like that would be really cool


Automatically Appended Next Post:

WorldEdgePlayer wrote:

 march10k wrote:

I'm going to have to hoist the BS banner. You will be limited to 0-1, the same way the Brets can only take up to one duke.

0-1 Prince or Archmage per 1000pts, 50% character limit.

High elf Prince with full plate armor, shield, lance, Star dragon, Dragon helm, Seeds of rebirth 462pts
High elf Archmage with lv4, Star dragon, Seeds of rebirth, Silver wand 510pts

Easy two Star dragons in a 2000 point list.

Then we adopt the 1999 pts as the standard and the problem becomes much smaller (though not fully removed).

Hah why the nonsense of 1999 instead of just capping individual troublesome units, or at least just saying 2k "but with 1k composition"?

 lord_blackfang wrote:
It's 0-3 Great Cannon or Mortar and 0-1 Volley or Rocket per 1000 pts, so twice that in normal games. I don't think Dwarfs have any meaningful limits either.

I hope that one of the sub-armies in their own book is the College of Pyrotechnics. 6 Rocket batteries per army!

Is that really a thing HBMC or did you make it up? Haha.

 nathan2004 wrote:
Is that really a thing HBMC or did you make it up? Haha.

It's a thing from Total War Warhammer. They're a "Rogue Army" you can encounter, and they are filled to the gills with Hellstorm Rocket Batteries. They can totally wreck your gak if you encounter them in the early campaign before you're anywhere close to being able to handle that much incoming firepower.

WorldEdgePlayer wrote:

 march10k wrote:

I'm going to have to hoist the BS banner. You will be limited to 0-1, the same way the Brets can only take up to one duke.

0-1 Prince or Archmage per 1000pts, 50% character limit.

High elf Prince with full plate armor, shield, lance, Star dragon, Dragon helm, Seeds of rebirth 462pts
High elf Archmage with lv4, Star dragon, Seeds of rebirth, Silver wand 510pts

Easy two Star dragons in a 2000 point list.

Which is why 1999 will be the pts size for comp games, maybe?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

WorldEdgePlayer wrote:

 march10k wrote:

I'm going to have to hoist the BS banner. You will be limited to 0-1, the same way the Brets can only take up to one duke.

0-1 Prince or Archmage per 1000pts, 50% character limit.

High elf Prince with full plate armor, shield, lance, Star dragon, Dragon helm, Seeds of rebirth 462pts
High elf Archmage with lv4, Star dragon, Seeds of rebirth, Silver wand 510pts

Easy two Star dragons in a 2000 point list.

Which is why 1999 will be the pts size for comp games, maybe?

 RustyNumber wrote:
Hah why the nonsense of 1999 instead of just capping individual troublesome units, or at least just saying 2k "but with 1k composition"?

One bonus of the "Rule of 3" is its really simple to remember when you're in the shop debating on if you want to buy something. You can recall how many you've got of a thing and you don't have to check a codex for the individual unit limit. If you've got 3 you don't "need" another one so you can buy something else. If you've got less than 3 you can choose to buy another.


That said individual unit limits can be very sensible, we already have them for special named characters. That said I think that it leans back to a long term balance over short term. Long term a unit limit on individual models works; short term it doesn't. In fact with the 3 year cycle it would be very annoying to see models go from a 0-5 in one edition to a 0-3 in the next and then a 0-2 and then back to 0-5 etc... It's already annoying that GW messes with unit loadouts (esp on Tyranids with GW changing the legal weapon combinations almost every single edition). Changing the unit allotment each edition would be another sore point for many seeing models they have that they can't use come around again.