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 frankelee wrote:

SgtEeveell wrote:Calling it now, the return of Lumpin Croop's Fighting Cocks*.

Something to do with Old World and the Moot anyway.

*Yes, I know that's a goose and not a rooster, but I think the Halflings are not that picky about their mascots. Or could be multiple fowl.

As if there would be a Halfling alive in the entire Old World who would get within 100 feet of a Canadian goose.

Surely you mean, Naggaroth goose.

 frankelee wrote:
As if there would be a Halfling alive in the entire Old World who would get within 100 feet of a Canadian goose.

Halflings are meant to be great poachers, so I could see them getting close to one.

Whether they'd survive the experience is another matter entirely...

I am now imagining a Halfling army, led by a Chef (or Sheriff/Chefiff?) with slingers and military forks base troops.


And of course, goose cavalry.

 Dysartes wrote:

 frankelee wrote:
As if there would be a Halfling alive in the entire Old World who would get within 100 feet of a Canadian goose.

Halflings are meant to be great poachers, so I could see them getting close to one.

Whether they'd survive the experience is another matter entirely...

They’d totally get close to one… after they shot it a couple of times.

 Stormonu wrote:
I am now imagining a Halfling army, led by a Chef (or Sheriff/Chefiff?) with slingers and military forks base troops.

And of course, goose cavalry.

Imagines them being slaughtered by Chaos Warriors.... or Undead... or Orcs and smiles.

 frankelee wrote:

SgtEeveell wrote:Calling it now, the return of Lumpin Croop's Fighting Cocks*.

Something to do with Old World and the Moot anyway.

*Yes, I know that's a goose and not a rooster, but I think the Halflings are not that picky about their mascots. Or could be multiple fowl.

As if there would be a Halfling alive in the entire Old World who would get within 100 feet of a Canadian goose.

Of course not, they'd have to get from The Old World to Canada first!

But it's not like they'd have to. A couple shots from a bow or sling and one roast goose coming up!

Don't know if this is news, but the Warcom article for Total War state that:

* Fans of Warhammer: The Old World should note that there aren’t any current plans to bring Kislev or Grand Cathay to the tabletop for the foreseeable future.

So uh, ain't that some gak:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/02/22/total-war-warhammer-3-reinforcements-arrive-en-masse/

* Fans of Warhammer: The Old World should note that there aren’t any current plans to bring Kislev or Grand Cathay to the tabletop for the foreseeable future.

Previously, as many of you will know I was very much on board with "Kislev are obviously coming soon, just because they haven't been mentioned since the early announcements doesn't mean they were canceled", etc. Likewise, during one of the previous articles they mentioned Kislev wouldn't be released in the forseeable future and I basically eye-rolled because the mooks at warcom have demonstrated time and again to not really know anything beyond what was on the immediate horizon.

BUT.

The above statement is a bit different - saying there aren't any "current plans" to do so is a bit of a more clear-throated statement (as is the the fact that they felt the need to state it for a second time) that theres no intention to move forward with them. Thats not just a "we haven't seen or heard anything about these guys being released". Instead, thats legitimately "there are no intentions of releasing these guys in the near future". The use of the term "current", also implies that there was a plan at some point to release them, and that plan was changed.

So, here is me saying that I am changing my stance and siding with those of you who were spitting outrage about what seemed like some imagined change in scope or intention or plan, etc. It seems you were right, and I was wrong.

We've had that statement before.

Orc and Goblin Tribes
Empire
Wood Elves
High Elves
Dwarfen Mountain Holds
Warriors of Chaos

That's the list of full armies in the Big Rule book with big model photo splashes of full armies which are likely GW's primary focus. That's 6 full army releases; each one of which could be one to two waves and that's excluding any "made to order" waves (of which each might get at least one). Not to mention any fill-in models and releases that they've not yet shown off.



So "foreseeable future" considering GW thinks in 3Month brackets for marketing and yeah it makes sense. We've 1-2 years of releases just to get the old armies out of the door and on the tables again. Yes each one is going to be fairly chunky release, but even so its going to take time to get them out. Cathay and Kislev are clearly coming after.


I've mused a few times that they might even be the spearhead of 2nd Edition Old World.

Not everybody thinks like executive boards do, it's an unfair advantage for those who can, but that's life. They were never, ever, planning to spend a huge amount of money to develop Kislev and Cathay model ranges to drop on this side game at release. The fact that it has been five years since their disconnected marketing team even mentioned it, and of course no word from any higher up that this was real, was really all the clue you needed. It's like mom said "maybe" to your request five years ago and hasn't brought it up since, that's a pretty clear hint. Let's see how the old army releases go over the next two years, I bet they'll do well, and then we'll see them expand the range.

Kislev and Cathay both had several articles talking about them early in the marketing. Furthermore they BOTH appear as distinct mentions in the Big Rule Book.

Almost any new big game launch would have required the creation of at least 1 if not 2 armies (and lets face it unless its Space Marines you really can't get away with anything else in GW's roster with just 1 faction mirror-matching in civil war).

What I think is clear is that the focus went from developing entirely new armies to re-issuing old ones and that reason for that could be budget; could be projected sales; it could even be from user feedback (lots of people asking for XYZ favourite models to come back into print). It might also be that after Covid and so forth, the budget for this got wiped out by other things and increased running costs mean that it has to justify itself. So it might be that they've got all the ground work done; but they need a lot of old stuf to sell well to show that its worth the investment.


Another reason I've thought is that if GW knew they couldn't do LOTS of armies very fast with new models; so went back to using older models; they might well have pushed Kislev and Cathay to be at the end (or start of 2nd edition) so that all the old stuff goes out the door first. Otherwise you get a block of two armies with awesome new modern sculpts followed by over a half dozen with old style models. Which would likely really mute the impact of the game. Done the other way around there's disgruntlement that 2 armies that are new aren't hter;e but clearly outweighed by the joy and sales of the 2 returned armies.

That's mighty disappointing footnote. Seems stupid now that they invested so many pages about those factions in The Old World Rulebook.

Oh well, not like anyone in my group is picking up TOW besides me anyway.

chaos0xomega wrote:
So uh, ain't that some gak:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/02/22/total-war-warhammer-3-reinforcements-arrive-en-masse/

* Fans of Warhammer: The Old World should note that there aren’t any current plans to bring Kislev or Grand Cathay to the tabletop for the foreseeable future.

Previously, as many of you will know I was very much on board with "Kislev are obviously coming soon, just because they haven't been mentioned since the early announcements doesn't mean they were canceled", etc. Likewise, during one of the previous articles they mentioned Kislev wouldn't be released in the forseeable future and I basically eye-rolled because the mooks at warcom have demonstrated time and again to not really know anything beyond what was on the immediate horizon.

BUT.

The above statement is a bit different - saying there aren't any "current plans" to do so is a bit of a more clear-throated statement (as is the the fact that they felt the need to state it for a second time) that theres no intention to move forward with them. Thats not just a "we haven't seen or heard anything about these guys being released". Instead, thats legitimately "there are no intentions of releasing these guys in the near future". The use of the term "current", also implies that there was a plan at some point to release them, and that plan was changed.

So, here is me saying that I am changing my stance and siding with those of you who were spitting outrage about what seemed like some imagined change in scope or intention or plan, etc. It seems you were right, and I was wrong.

You know what- respect for this.

The amount of mental contortions it takes to STILL think GW was going to release these guys is astonishing.

Domandi wrote:
Don't know if this is news, but the Warcom article for Total War state that:

* Fans of Warhammer: The Old World should note that there aren’t any current plans to bring Kislev or Grand Cathay to the tabletop for the foreseeable future.

I’m glad they said it instead of continuing a lie of omission.


Hopefully this will give some of the more tenacious GW defenders some food for thought.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

chaos0xomega wrote:
So uh, ain't that some gak:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/02/22/total-war-warhammer-3-reinforcements-arrive-en-masse/

* Fans of Warhammer: The Old World should note that there aren’t any current plans to bring Kislev or Grand Cathay to the tabletop for the foreseeable future.

Previously, as many of you will know I was very much on board with "Kislev are obviously coming soon, just because they haven't been mentioned since the early announcements doesn't mean they were canceled", etc. Likewise, during one of the previous articles they mentioned Kislev wouldn't be released in the forseeable future and I basically eye-rolled because the mooks at warcom have demonstrated time and again to not really know anything beyond what was on the immediate horizon.

BUT.

The above statement is a bit different - saying there aren't any "current plans" to do so is a bit of a more clear-throated statement (as is the the fact that they felt the need to state it for a second time) that theres no intention to move forward with them. Thats not just a "we haven't seen or heard anything about these guys being released". Instead, thats legitimately "there are no intentions of releasing these guys in the near future". The use of the term "current", also implies that there was a plan at some point to release them, and that plan was changed.

So, here is me saying that I am changing my stance and siding with those of you who were spitting outrage about what seemed like some imagined change in scope or intention or plan, etc. It seems you were right, and I was wrong.

Thank you for posting this. I appreciate this could be a difficult admission, and I’m pleasantly surprised by your candor.

It's not just a lie of omission, they directly said Cathay would be in The Old World.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/02/18/grand-cathay-is-mapped-for-the-first-time-in-warhammer-the-old-world/

"It’s taken more than three decades, but light is finally being shed on the mysterious eastern realm of Cathay. Though this nation’s first full appearance in the world of Warhammer can be seen in the just-released Total War: Warhammer III, Cathay will also be coming to the tabletop in the upcoming Warhammer: The Old World. And now, there’s a map."

chaos0xomega wrote:
So, here is me saying that I am changing my stance and siding with those of you who were spitting outrage about what seemed like some imagined change in scope or intention or plan, etc. It seems you were right, and I was wrong.

That's alright, I was an early Epic scale theorist.

Currently it looks to me like ToW had at least 3 development phases

1) Fake news phase, literally just posting gak for the sake of making noise and drawing attention from competitors
2) Big development phase, it's obvious a lot of hard work went into the book and all faction lists, including "legacy"
3) Cutbacks, someone high up decides that Epic is getting 30 sprues and ToW is getting 2, and to squat half the factions after they've already been written

It might be a reach, but I wouldn't be shocked if years ago they thought they'd be doing a Kislev/Cathay Starter set for TOW, and at some point this idea either died a death, or proved too much work.

If I was cynical, its perhaps that Warhammer 3 has been by far the least successful Warhammer Total War game - and GW may have thought (not unreasonably) people just wouldn't be overly interested in those two factions, versus hitting the nostalgia with Brets/TKs.

Don't get me wrong, I think removing lizardmen, ratman and vampires to replace them with another two flavours of human would be daft as hell.

Ah, well, more fool me then.

I didn't think it would be soon (<5 years) or even necessarily plastic, but I had believed that there surely would be some relevant pay-off to those early articles

It's amazing looking back with the veil now lifted, the original Old World announcement pre-dates the whole Cursed City debacle, and still I persisted in thinking GW's word might be worth something

I am glad they at the very least admitted the factions were cancelled rather than just leaving up the old "they're coming!" articles and letting people wait.

They needed to be more obvious about it but... still.

Yeah, a fething apology or acknowledgement of "hey we know we told you they would but things changed" would be nice

Have to say, cutting out two major new factions- reducing TOW to, apparently, just resurrecting WHFB with half the factions excised, and a handful of new kits for the remainder- does suggest a substantially reduced commitment to the product.

I'm not surprised. Shame for everyone who had hoped to see Kislev and Cathay in the game, though.

I would *swear* that in the last two months a different warcom article had a footnote about not expecting Cathay and Kislev any time soon/for a long time. To the point I'm perplexed that everyone is freaking over this latest news article. Perhaps a case of dejavu or a misremembered sentence about other factions?

It's a shame that after all that work put into the rules, and probably the warmest reception online to a GW product in living memory - I've never seen so many single-focus hobby channels drop what they were doing to cover a new game exclusively - this looks like it will be treated as the unwanted stepchild. Tho I suppose that's exactly what it is for the management, a game they were "forced" to make by the market.

It would be one thing if they showed off the digital renders or actual models, but y’all are delusional if you thought Kislev and Cathay would be the launch armies for TOW. In four years they didn’t show anything more than concept art for Kislev, and Cathay only got formally announced about 2 years ago. Not a single digital render or model for either.

And as someone else said, if they did start strong with all new models people wouldn’t be willing to buy the old models that are showing their age. You’d also still be complaining that they’re being too slow with releases and that your faction of choice isn’t available to buy right now.

 RustyNumber wrote:
I would *swear* that in the last two months a different warcom article had a footnote about not expecting Cathay and Kislev any time soon/for a long time. To the point I'm perplexed that everyone is freaking over this latest news article. Perhaps a case of dejavu or a misremembered sentence about other factions?

Yes, there was a one off note about how kislev would not be releasedvin the foreseeable future, but in warcom terms that pretty much just means "within the next month".

They doubled down by including such a statement a second time, which means it wasn't just a one-off throwaway line by a clueless copy writer but instead a directed PR effort to message expectations to customers.

The new statement is also more extreme, it's not just that they won't be released on the short term - it's that there aren't any plans to do so, which means kislev and Cathay are at best 3-5 years away at an absolute minimum because of how long the product development cycle and manufacturing lead times are. The absence of plans means they basically arent in development at all at this point, and basically the only reason gw would share a statement like that is if they expect that won't be changing anytime soon.

So yeah, we are "freaking out" because this is actually very different from what anyone was previously led to expect.

 zend wrote:
It would be one thing if they showed off the digital renders or actual models, but y’all are delusional if you thought Kislev and Cathay would be the launch armies for TOW. In four years they didn’t show anything more than concept art for Kislev, and Cathay only got formally announced about 2 years ago. Not a single digital render or model for either.

And as someone else said, if they did start strong with all new models people wouldn’t be willing to buy the old models that are showing their age. You’d also still be complaining that they’re being too slow with releases and that your faction of choice isn’t available to buy right now.

Nobody thought they would be launch armies, you are wholly misconstruing the discussion if that's the position you're coming from. Kislev was actually the second army announced for the game (after Empire, which wasnt even really announced, just assumed based on the inclusion of 4 empire symbols on a map) and the first that was "confirmed" to be receiving new models. Cathay wasn't far behind.

The absence of renders or photos of actual models is meaningless. I don't need to see those things to know that they are working on an Emperors Children army for 40k, or that there will be plastic mechanicum or mk2/4/5 kits for Horus Heresy, or plastic chaos dwarves or new skaven miniatures for Age of sigmar. These are all obvious questions of when, not if. Announcing Kislev and Cathay however many years ago put them in the same category. The new statement however moves them out of "when, not if" and into "if, not when". They aren't just denying that these factions are going to be released soon, they are denying that there's any plans to release them at all, and that's a pretty stark change from the previous messaging that they were being worked on for eventual release into the game.

Did y'all see this?

https://www.reddit.com/r/WarhammerFantasy/s/1Pe4YbADfl

Very believable, but of course very unverifiable.