Warhammer - The Old World news and rumors. Burlok Damminson p.322.

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**StudentOfEtherium**

beast_gts wrote:

Copied from Reddit:

Rumours about the short and far future of Old World

Spoiler:

So this was from the Warhammer Fantasy discord server if anyone cares to see if there was anything I missed out.

Cathay has a written army list similar to Total War Warhammer's version.

Skaven were specifically cited as unlikely to appear anytime soon for Old World. (Perhaps it's karma for my post yesterday.) The reason is perhaps the focus of Age of Sigmar's fourth edition.

Beastmen's armies of infamy include a minotaur horde and a call of the wild army, which uses magic related to the new lore included in the arcane journal.

Empire's armies of infamy include a Nuln gun army of infamy and a Middenheim army of infamy.

Various Forge World units, including the skin-wolves, firmer, gore-bull BSB and the peryton, will be returning. It was stated specifically that the chaos mammoth will NOT be returning.

Apparently, there is an F&Q planned for the arcane journals once all of them have been released.

Finally, and this one wasn't given much information to it as it was sort of muddled, but there is a long-term plan for Vampire Counts to be the first army to be made core from the missing armies. Though the way it was described it is a far-away concept and you shouldn't expect it soon.

Thank you to Javgoro from the Fantasy Discord for the information.

here's the rumors

**kodos**

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/8160/807983.page#11655612

**Overread**

lord_blackfang wrote:
Overread wrote:
Honestly I still maintain that its a smart move on GW's front. IF they released 2 brand new totally modern model lines they'd have no chance releasing the classic models they are now.

Eh big disagree there, people buying 90s fantasy models today are clearly unaffected by the thousands of better models that exist, a few more won't do anything.

I'd say yes and no. Yes there are always die hard fans but I think on the no front the general population might not be so accepting within a game system. Especially if 2 new armies got a roster of awesome models first and then suddenly you're back to 20 year old models almost only barring one or two new ones.

It just doesn't seem like a good marketing approach.

Now granted perhaps with the sales rate now GW could have done it the other way around; but the risk is if they had they'd have sold great on the first two new armies and far less on those that followed.

It's hard to say but one approach sounds safer to take for planning a release.

**chaos0xomega**

Belthanos wrote:
Supposedly vampires first legends army to return though not in hurry.

Supposedly the actual rumor source says it's a Vampire army of mousillon, so not exactly.

**nathan2004**

How is that different from normal vampire counts?

**His Master's Voice**

Bretonnian theming probably.

**Overread**

I guess they might have more cavalry since its basically a corrupted Bretonnian faction. So the same zombies/skeleton rank and file and then more cavalry on top. Perhaps with some different undead beasts than the Von Carsine based vampires that have traditionally been the core focus of GW's model range.

Who knows though, GW could make them more of a "there's a few vampires and everyone else is a slaved human with few zombies and skeletons and the like". So they'd have elements of Vampires whilst being very distinct from the full on vampire leading the undead force.

In the end it could also just be minor design differences in sculpt asthetics with not a huge departure from the Vampires now in AoS. Not forgetting that basically every design that's in AoS for Death was once part of the Vampire army. Even the Ossiarch designs originated from the old Vamprie army. Ghosts, feral vampries and all were once in that line; so it covers quite a swathe.

**chaos0xomega**

nathan2004 wrote:
How is that different from normal vampire counts?

The real question is how is that different from normal Bretonnians?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Overread wrote:
Even the Ossiarch designs originated from the old Vamprie army.

That's a take. If you had said Tomb Kings I'd agree, but VC?

**Overread**

chaos0xomega wrote:
nathan2004 wrote:
How is that different from normal vampire counts?

The real question is how is that different from normal Bretonnians?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Overread wrote:
Even the Ossiarch designs originated from the old Vamprie army.

That's a take. If you had said Tomb Kings I'd agree, but VC?

Both the Morghast and Mortarch (on skeleton mounts) models came from the Vampire Counts army from Old World. Yes it was the End Times and thus a very short lived period of time; but that design style of a core of skulls and a skeleton of bone and fused armour started there in the Old World End Times with the Vampires.

GW then did the same thing for them that they did for Ghosts and Feral Vampires. Splintered them off and grew them into a whole design ethos for a new army.

I actually wonder what GW will do with the Coven Throne (and its 2 other versions) when they come to update the model. They certainly do not push that model in marketing or photography as its designs are clearly based on the old vampire style of force that had ghosts running alongside it. It along with the Corpse Waggon are two designs that I feel have not translated well into modern Soulblight forces. The Waggon feels too primitive for a force that are no longer hiding necromancers living in isolation raising a force of the dead against a local settlement; and the Throne is carried by ghosts that don't appear anywhere else in the army.

**Lord Zarkov**

Overread wrote:
chaos0xomega wrote:
nathan2004 wrote:
How is that different from normal vampire counts?

The real question is how is that different from normal Bretonnians?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Overread wrote:
Even the Ossiarch designs originated from the old Vamprie army.

That's a take. If you had said Tomb Kings I'd agree, but VC?

Both the Morghast and Mortarch (on skeleton mounts) models came from the Vampire Counts army from Old World. Yes it was the End Times and thus a very short lived period of time; but that design style of a core of skulls and a skeleton of bone and fused armour started there in the Old World End Times with the Vampires.

GW then did the same thing for them that they did for Ghosts and Feral Vampires. Splintered them off and grew them into a whole design ethos for a new army.

I actually wonder what GW will do with the Coven Throne (and its 2 other versions) when they come to update the model. They certainly do not push that model in marketing or photography as its designs are clearly based on the old vampire style of force that had ghosts running alongside it. It along with the Corpse Waggon are two designs that I feel have not translated well into modern Soulblight forces. The Waggon feels too primitive for a force that are no longer hiding necromancers living in isolation raising a force of the dead against a local settlement; and the Throne is carried by ghosts that don't appear anywhere else in the army.

They weren’t in the VC army though, they were only in the combined Undead army that included all the TK units and one of the mounted Mortarchs was a TK character.

Neither the Morghasts nor the Dread Abyssals particularly gel stylistically with the actual VC units, even the Mortis Engine/Coven Throne.

**Shadow Walker**

So the Beastmen are back https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/04/04/whats-leaving-the-warhammer-age-of-sigmar-range/

**chaos0xomega**

Yes, as I mentioned in the past, my sources whispered that BoC would be squatted out of AoS and shunted to TOW. Yall doubted me but here it is. I predicted the same for bonesplitterz but didn't have a source on that, still not sure what's going in there but I expect some of those minis will be repackaged into TOW boxes.

Hopefully this helps folks wrap their heads around the underlying business maneuvering for why some factions are core and others are legacy.

**GaroRobe**

No mention of savage orcs returning even though they specifically said that about beastmen

**Shadow Walker**

GaroRobe wrote:
No mention of savage orcs returning even though they specifically said that about beastmen

They are kinda there with a warpaint (or whatever it is called) rule for Orcs.

**JimmyWolf87**

chaos0xomega wrote:
Belthanos wrote:
Supposedly vampires first legends army to return though not in hurry.

Supposedly the actual rumor source says it's a Vampire army of mousillon, so not exactly.

Well that makes naff all sense considering Mousillon in The Old World setting has a very much alive and well population and a fairly capable, living Duke (even if he's going to be getting into some 'questionable' things a decade or two down the timeline...) and the only prior vampiric influence of note isn't due to reappear for a few centuries. Not an impossible lore inclusion, will just feel a bit like shoehorning Mousillon vampires for the sake of it.

**kodos**

Shadow Walker wrote:
GaroRobe wrote:
No mention of savage orcs returning even though they specifically said that about beastmen

They are kinda there with a warpaint (or whatever it is called) rule for Orcs.

but in limited amounts so no possibility to play an army just single units

Automatically Appended Next Post:

chaos0xomega wrote:
Yes, as I mentioned in the past, my sources whispered that BoC would be squatted out of AoS and shunted to TOW. Yall doubted me but here it is. I predicted the same for bonesplitterz but didn't have a source on that, still not sure what's going in there but I expect some of those minis will be repackaged into TOW boxes.

Beastmen was pretty obvious from the moment the rumours about reasons for legacy armies was around

**Shadow Walker**

kodos wrote:
Shadow Walker wrote:
GaroRobe wrote:
No mention of savage orcs returning even though they specifically said that about beastmen

They are kinda there with a warpaint (or whatever it is called) rule for Orcs.

but in limited amounts so no possibility to play an army just single units

Yeah, that is why I said kinda there

**chaos0xomega**

Yes, it does sound a bit odd, especially when there's the Harkon faction in the Border Princes - unless there's some confusion and it's really a blood knight army under Walach Harkon that was confused for bretonnia because of all the knights.

The other possibility is that it's an army based around the Red Duke of Aquitaine, who is active in this time period (being hunted by the forces of Aquitaine after killing one of his successor Dukes some 100 years prior). TWW placed him in Mousillon which has led to some confusion/the perception that Mousillon has the monopoly on bretonnian vampirism.

**Dawnbringer**

JimmyWolf87 wrote:
chaos0xomega wrote:
Belthanos wrote:
Supposedly vampires first legends army to return though not in hurry.

Supposedly the actual rumor source says it's a Vampire army of mousillon, so not exactly.

Well that makes naff all sense considering Mousillon in The Old World setting has a very much alive and well population and a fairly capable, living Duke (even if he's going to be getting into some 'questionable' things a decade or two down the timeline...) and the only prior vampiric influence of note isn't due to reappear for a few centuries. Not an impossible lore inclusion, will just feel a bit like shoehorning Mousillon vampires for the sake of it.

Depends on how far they are will to advance / look into the future past. Could fit around a campaign book about the fall of Mousillon.

**JimmyWolf87**

Dawnbringer wrote:
JimmyWolf87 wrote:
chaos0xomega wrote:
Belthanos wrote:
Supposedly vampires first legends army to return though not in hurry.

Supposedly the actual rumor source says it's a Vampire army of mousillon, so not exactly.

Well that makes naff all sense considering Mousillon in The Old World setting has a very much alive and well population and a fairly capable, living Duke (even if he's going to be getting into some 'questionable' things a decade or two down the timeline...) and the only prior vampiric influence of note isn't due to reappear for a few centuries. Not an impossible lore inclusion, will just feel a bit like shoehorning Mousillon vampires for the sake of it.

Depends on how far they are will to advance / look into the future past. Could fit around a campaign book about the fall of Mousillon.

Sure, though it would be a departure from what their stated (current) intent is and have it be focused on this specific period and a gradual build towards the Great War. The fall of Mousillon also has nothing to do with vampires.

**Dawnbringer**

"Mousillon is the smallest, poorest, and most cursed of the dukedoms of Bretonnia. Much of its land was seized by Lyonesse in 1814 IC, after the Vampiric corruption of Duke Merovech d'Mousillon was revealed. The Duke of Mousillon slew the King of Bretonnia and drank his blood before the assembled nobles. War was the only solution." - Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay 2nd Edition: Knights of the Grail (RPG) pp. 81-83

**SgtEeveell**

I looked at the "What's leaving AoS" article and it seems they are discontinuing all of the Skaven TOW units that are currently part of AoS.
None of the "returning to TOW" like Beastmen, so I guess they are just gone. They *really* don't want you playing Skaven for TOW.

**Overread**

SgtEeveell wrote:
I looked at the "What's leaving AoS" article and it seems they are discontinuing all of the Old World units that are currently part of AoS.
None of the "returning to TOW" like Beastmen, so I guess they are just gone. They *really* don't want you playing Skaven for TOW.

Skaven aren't getting an Old World release at all. Their models being removed are most liekly being replaced this summer with new Skaven models as part of the big update. Skaven vanishing at this juncture was 100% expected.

The Stormcast vanishing, with some only just 3 years old from the last edition was not expected.

Beastmen moving to Old World and leaving AoS wasn't expected

Slaves to Darkness losing the Warcry sets - understandable but not expected (also no clarification if Warcry will exist beyond this point or not)

Wild orks - not expected, somewhat slightly kind of understandable but not expected

Basically a LOT of this list wasn't expected to happen. Furthermore GW have announced this somewhat early I think. They should have done this a week or less after announcing a good 1/2 of the new skaven and stormcast models. Instead we have 1 leaked skaven and 1 stormcast replaced (librators) and nothing else so far. So its a REALLY bad time to announce it because there's nothing to EXCITE the stormcast players.

**Inquisitor Gideon**

Warcry is fine. The webstore has the SCE units as last chance to buy right now. All the Warcry bands are standard stock in their own part of the store.

I think any SCE players who take more than a moment to think will realise the vast majority of the units will get a resculpt and only the Sacrosanct will end up gone.

**Lord Zarkov**

Overread wrote:
SgtEeveell wrote:
I looked at the "What's leaving AoS" article and it seems they are discontinuing all of the Old World units that are currently part of AoS.
None of the "returning to TOW" like Beastmen, so I guess they are just gone. They *really* don't want you playing Skaven for TOW.

Skaven aren't getting an Old World release at all. Their models being removed are most liekly being replaced this summer with new Skaven models as part of the big update. Skaven vanishing at this juncture was 100% expected.

The Stormcast vanishing, with some only just 3 years old from the last edition was not expected.

Beastmen moving to Old World and leaving AoS wasn't expected

Slaves to Darkness losing the Warcry sets - understandable but not expected (also no clarification if Warcry will exist beyond this point or not)

Wild orks - not expected, somewhat slightly kind of understandable but not expected

Basically a LOT of this list wasn't expected to happen. Furthermore GW have announced this somewhat early I think. They should have done this a week or less after announcing a good 1/2 of the new skaven and stormcast models. Instead we have 1 leaked skaven and 1 stormcast replaced (librators) and nothing else so far. So its a REALLY bad time to announce it because there's nothing to EXCITE the stormcast players.

Anybody not expecting Beastmen to be culled after they were a Core faction in TOW was being ludicrously optimistic tbh…

**Overread**

Lord Zarkov wrote:

Anybody not expecting Beastmen to be culled after they were a Core faction in TOW was being ludicrously optimistic tbh…

True, but they aren't culling Slaves to Darkness from AoS

And they have had one or two odd armies in the past - eg Demons - being cross game. But yeah it does seem like someone in management is REALLY REALLY die hard on the games not crossing over

**Voss**

Overread wrote:
Lord Zarkov wrote:

Anybody not expecting Beastmen to be culled after they were a Core faction in TOW was being ludicrously optimistic tbh…

True, but they aren't culling Slaves to Darkness from AoS

No, they've got new AoS versions, like Lizards and the upcoming Skaven.
Once the Darkoath come out, StD is pretty much an entirely new range, complete with 'AoS-only'* models. It wasn't a coincidence that the pictures in the TOW rulebook feature old stuff.

*though I fully expect people to use them as TOW models regardless.

Beasts and savage orcs getting kicked isn't really surprising either. People were in fact pretty adamant about it when the books released.

The only real surprise is the weird status of the elf and dwarf units loosely attached to Cities of Sigmar. But I'll be completely unsurprised when the new version of that book comes with a culling. (especially if the fabled 'Malerion' faction finally comes out)

**kodos**

Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
I think any SCE players who take more than a moment to think will realise the vast majority of the units will get a resculpt and only the Sacrosanct will end up gone.

which are the armies of those SCE players who started with 2nd Edition
those from 1st are happy to get new rules, those from 3rd are fine anyway and those from 2nd are screwed

**Inquisitor Gideon**

kodos wrote:
Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
I think any SCE players who take more than a moment to think will realise the vast majority of the units will get a resculpt and only the Sacrosanct will end up gone.
which are the armies of those SCE players who started with 2nd Edition
those from 1st are happy to get new rules, those from 3rd are fine anyway and those from 2nd are screwed

Not really. Sacrosanct aren't really anything else than 1st ed models but blinged up. You can quite easily substitute them in for them. It's what i'm doing.

**Dysartes**

Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
kodos wrote:
Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
I think any SCE players who take more than a moment to think will realise the vast majority of the units will get a resculpt and only the Sacrosanct will end up gone.
which are the armies of those SCE players who started with 2nd Edition
those from 1st are happy to get new rules, those from 3rd are fine anyway and those from 2nd are screwed

Not really. Sacrosanct aren't really anything else than 1st ed models but blinged up. You can quite easily substitute them in for them. It's what i'm doing.

Tell me, Gideon - when was the last time GW did something with AOS that you actually criticised?