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Tsagualsa wrote:
Crude youtube auto-transcript aside, that's unambiguous, and his B&C statement is backpedaling.

He knows, he just doesn't KNOW know. You know?

I know that I don't know.

Let's see what will happen.

If true that Epic is returning in 2023 then this really is a HUGE year for the Warhammer hobby.

2023 =
+ New edition of WH40K
+ The Old World Warhammer returns
+ The return of Epic

So many things.

Edit: should probably have included the Lion returning too as that's pretty big a Primarch returning

Yeah - if there were to be an Epic release, it would most likely fall into the winter slot.

IIRC, AT18 was announced in the fall...

 Moopy wrote:


Again, MK2/3 together makes no sense. It's hard to tell those two apart at 28mm size, so there's absolutely no point in trying to do this in tiny size.

Yet 3rd parties do that just fine.

Don't think I've posted this in this version of the 'new epic is coming' thread (only the previous five of them lol) sofor anyone reading if this has whet your appetite for Epic scale minis and you want to give it a go here is a link to a new players guide https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/751316.page

There are also a few threads down in the Specialist games forum, here is a popular one featuring various ongoing Epic projects https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/791159.page

Would these minis be the same size and AI and Titanicus?

Yes. Well same scale. Size wise infantry would be quite small.

40k 10th Edition, TOW and EPIC would be "good" for the "40 Years of Warhammer".

If epic does return, I’m expecting it to be in a bigger scale than 6mm. Isn’t Titanicus more like 8mm? I could be misremembering, but hasn’t it been said by people at GW that when they chose the new scale for Titanicus, they did consider what marines would look like at that scale?

I’m thinking a lot of people with 6mm armies will find their existing minis look way too small.

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
If epic does return, I’m expecting it to be in a bigger scale than 6mm. Isn’t Titanicus more like 8mm? I could be misremembering, but hasn’t it been said by people at GW that when they chose the new scale for Titanicus, they did consider what marines would look like at that scale?

I’m thinking a lot of people with 6mm armies will find their existing minis look way too small.

Worth noting that nothing GW makes is to any particular real life scale in the same way as historicals or model trains.

Titanicus (and AI) minis are just 25% the size of the 40k versions, whatever size that is. That would make Epic marines around 8mm tall, which is where the "8mm scale" term comes from. Regular humans should be closer to 6-7mm.

Old Epic infantry should look fairly OK, but the vehicles are likely to be a bit smaller than new Epic.

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
If epic does return, I’m expecting it to be in a bigger scale than 6mm. Isn’t Titanicus more like 8mm? I could be misremembering, but hasn’t it been said by people at GW that when they chose the new scale for Titanicus, they did consider what marines would look like at that scale?.

Yes? And marines aren't human sized last time I read fluff on space marines. If I were to walk next to life sized space marine I should be looking UP despite being tad over 6 feet tall myself(tad over average finn). Marines at 6mm scale should be taller than 6mm as they are, funnily enough, supposed to be taller than average human

Early up AT people asked about that and guess what? Easy way to measure. Take up size of warlord titan, compare to what size technical specifications give to height(thanks for FW for detailed specifications), measure, pretty much between 1:285 to 1:300 which are both called 6mm.

8mm Printed Marines vs 6mm old Epic Marines

 xttz wrote:

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
If epic does return, I’m expecting it to be in a bigger scale than 6mm. Isn’t Titanicus more like 8mm? I could be misremembering, but hasn’t it been said by people at GW that when they chose the new scale for Titanicus, they did consider what marines would look like at that scale?

I’m thinking a lot of people with 6mm armies will find their existing minis look way too small.

Worth noting that nothing GW makes is to any particular real life scale in the same way as historicals or model trains.

Titanicus (and AI) minis are just 25% the size of the 40k versions, whatever size that is. That would make Epic marines around 8mm tall, which is where the "8mm scale" term comes from. Regular humans should be closer to 6-7mm.

Old Epic infantry should look fairly OK, but the vehicles are likely to be a bit smaller than new Epic.

Importantly, the old epic infantry just fits nicely through the e.g. manholes at the back of a current AT Warlord titan. It sure helps a lot that Titans themselves have extremely varying descriptions in the fluff, from being hundreds of meters tall to more sensible dimensions that work out to being as tall as 6-12 story buildings and so on... Flyers, too, were never really 'in scale' in the old epic system, so as you said, it's practically wrong to say that Epic was any consistent scale at all.

Yeah scale is very, very wonky everywhere in OG epic.

Racerguy180 wrote:
Yeah scale is very, very wonky everywhere in OG epic.

Just for the people that don't know their Squats:

on the left is a Squat Land-Train engine, on the right a Land Raider. The Land-Train is described thus:

A Land Train comprises a huge Engine annd a number of smaller tracked carriages called Battlecars[1b].

Both engine and cars are immensely armored all-around. The locomotive is also fitted with a pair of Void Shields forming a bubble around the entire train, with the generators in each car providing enough power to raise another one. Every battlecar is an independent vehicle with its own computer brain, able to move freely, albeit at a slower pace, without the assistance of the engine. Once linked together they're controlled from the locomotive. The engine is armed with a gigantic Doomsday Cannon and two heavy Battlecannons, all front facing, as well as numerous bolt weapons for self-defense. The Land Train is big and powerful enough to simply crush or push away any enemy under its threads, short of a Titan or Super-Heavy Tank[1b]

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Land_Train

It's supposed to be much bigger than a Baneblade

And Leviathans had the same footprint as a Baneblade, though they were taller.

So yeah, don't sweat it.

6mm Solar Aux with 8mm marines would be the perfect combination.

'New Epic' stuff is 1/4 40K, is the real scale though.

They could introduce new super heavy (and even heavier) Tanks for Legiones Astartes and the Mechanicum.

The recent metal vehicles re-released for Epic Armageddon are close enough to AT/AI scale that it probably won't matter to most people. The resin stuff from Forge World is likely too small as they tended to be. The plastics and older metals (including aircraft) are hot garbage and need to be redone from scratch.

One of the failings of Epic Armageddon was that they just rebuilt the infantry sprues with the old Epic 40,000 plastics, which everyone had buckets of or could get for pennies on eBay. Sales were really poor because there was no reason to buy the new plastics. The other thing that killed EA early on was that the new metal models they produced were prohibitively expensive. The Space Marine Landing Craft (Thunderhawk Transporter) was $50 US at the time. So, does one buy two of them for EA? Or does one grab the Battlefleet Gothic core box set, paint, and brushes? Hmmmm...



I'm pretty sure this was one of the worst selling models GW's ever produced (and there've been some real stinkers over the years).

Tsagualsa wrote:
Flyers, too, were never really 'in scale' in the old epic system, so as you said, it's practically wrong to say that Epic was any consistent scale at all.

Actually fliers (and titans) were supposed to be at 1/600 scale, so at least internally consistent and easier to make.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Breotan wrote:
Sales were really poor because there was no reason to buy the new plastics.

Maybe that was a US thing? Sales in the UK were 400% of Warmaster (the game used for projecting potential sales) and quite a surprise. It led tot he 'soft' relaunch of BFG in the states through mail order promotion and a few articles, but that was kinda the death nell of SG - while overall sales went up, the majority of the money seemed to come from a big dip in other sales. Concussion was the return on investment wasn't high enough, it cannibalised sales from other lines and should be all shut down in Kirbies drive for ultra tight, focused, higher profit, core game sales.

When maangement changed they changed their view for a number of reasons, not least the recognition they had essentially given space for competitors to grow.

The Space Marine Landing Craft (Thunderhawk Transporter) was $50 US at the time. So, does one buy two of them for EA? Or does one grab the Battlefleet Gothic core box set, paint, and brushes? Hmmmm...



I'm pretty sure this was one of the worst selling models GW's ever produced (and there've been some real stinkers over the years).

Sold out multiple times (rough on moulds as well apparently). As it was quite good in game (later slightly nerf'd) and you could do fun things like have two - one loaded and one unloaded showing different stages of mission - they sold well enough for I think Vanguard to be able to sell a tweaked forumware version. (If I am wrong and someone knows who makes it please include link!)

Reminds me of this: https://grimdarkterrain.com/template-construct/the-samson-freighter/

I was working GW retail in Spain back then, and while Epic sales were so-so while in stores (at the time, WFB was king and everything else second fiddle, including 40k, Spain was a very different market), with it going to mail order only and the almost doubling or tripling in prices, it basically went dead overnight.

Have to remember SG were on borrowed time (life support?) for some years now before it was finally killed. It was used as a testing ground for new sculptors (most of these were fine, but there were a few dodgy ones for Necromunda and Epic amongst others). Then it was going to be removed entirely until Jervis Johnson apparently offered to keep it running by himself, off of his own back, in addition to his standard responsibilities.

I don't think Armageddon not having a box set helped it. If you make a game hard to purchase, relatively expensive (compared to previous incarnations) - it was a wonderful game but little was done to help it, at a time Kirby seemed to be determined to send GW on a 'core game only' ever reducing spiral. Thankfully the current powers have recognised the benefit of diversifying, bringing back tight-fisted grognards like me and also giving new gamers the opportunity to play some GW games without spending many £hundreds and having to prepare dozens of miniatures as is the case for 40k or Sigmar.

lost_lilliputian wrote:
If true that Epic is returning in 2023 then this really is a HUGE year for the Warhammer hobby.

2023 =
+ New edition of WH40K
+ The Old World Warhammer returns
+ The return of Epic

So many things.

Edit: should probably have included the Lion returning too as that's pretty big a Primarch returning

Has it been confirmed that TOW is this year? I had it in my head it would be a few years yet.

Apart from 10th edition 40K, there hasn't been confirmation of any other game releasing this year.

Someone on B&C noted the following:

Did someone noticed that we hadn't any AT or AI Articles in the WD since a long time?

Last AT Article was in 473 (Feb 22)
Last AI Article was in 475 (Apr 22)

April 2022 was also when the first Epic rumors since a long Time started to spread.

RazorEdge wrote:
Someone on B&C noted the following:

Did someone noticed that we hadn't any AT or AI Articles in the WD since a long time?

Last AT Article was in 473 (Feb 22)
Last AI Article was in 475 (Apr 22)

April 2022 was also when the first Epic rumors since a long Time started to spread.

There's been Titanicus articles about the Dire Wolf, gravtion weapons, and conversion beamer since then. No new plastic since the Iconoclast in 2021 though.

 xttz wrote:

RazorEdge wrote:
Someone on B&C noted the following:

Did someone noticed that we hadn't any AT or AI Articles in the WD since a long time?

Last AT Article was in 473 (Feb 22)
Last AI Article was in 475 (Apr 22)

April 2022 was also when the first Epic rumors since a long Time started to spread.

There's been Titanicus articles about the Dire Wolf, gravtion weapons, and conversion beamer since then. No new plastic since the Iconoclast in 2021 though.

Have these been in WD or just on the Community page?

My bad, shouldn't misread posts before my morning coffee