Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Easy E wrote:
I recall when every game store had a store cat!

This hit me hard.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 Easy E wrote:
I recall when every game store had a store cat!

This hit me hard.

Not around here. Bookstores had cats. The great stores (that are no longer around) had train layouts and things that cats would find irresistible.

I also miss the days when GW was just another player in the industry, not deserving of their own section. Around 20 years ago, general purpose hobby shops began consolidating space for miniatures and GW pretty much took it over.

Of course such stores are now a thing of the past. Growing up, there was multiple options for a day at the hobby shop. Rider's for full service, Hobby Hub for a more toy-and-train approach, The Abyss for the hard-core D&D and Steve Jackson crowd. Those willing to make the drive to metro Detroit had access to The Alcove, a store whose name is still spoken with love and veneration.

They were succeeded by Just 4 Fun, The Fortress, Gen X, Major League Sports Cards and Games, and 21st Century.

All of those stores are now gone. There is still a Rider's in Grand Rapids, but that's an hour and change away.

The joy of going into a shop, picking up a copy of Fire & Movement, seeing the new gaming releases and making an impulse buy on a terrible Avalon Hills design ("France 1940," anyone?) is lost to the present generation.

Is it also lost on our generation? I don't feel any excitement for current things in pretty much any medium. I am not opposed to liking new things but anything post 2005 has rarely if ever appealed to me. It feels like watching an old vhs tape slowly repeating the same movie but wearing out. There's nothing to be excited to impulse buy even when you fancy a new model or rule set.

I'd love to browse a new line of models or pick up a new book and not have to qualify it with an excuse for trying something new rather than being invested in it

Might be a difference in what excites you vs where the market has gone? Feels like we’re in a new golden age of plastics, with Stargrave and WGA and Mantic and Victrix. Dropfleet’s new spaceships still get me excited in the way a new Star Wars, Star Trek or Babylon 5 spaceship did in the old days. However, I find Games Workshop to be anti-exciting, in that new release that should excite me in theory instead leave me feeling tired and depressed on release.


Re: Cats. Yes, our used bookstores also had cats. In fact, we lost two be-catted bookstores just before the pandemic. The only extant store in my area with cats today is a comic book store that sells at suspiciously reasonable prices.

Yo7 wrote:
Is it also lost on our generation? I don't feel any excitement for current things in pretty much any medium. I am not opposed to liking new things but anything post 2005 has rarely if ever appealed to me. It feels like watching an old vhs tape slowly repeating the same movie but wearing out. There's nothing to be excited to impulse buy even when you fancy a new model or rule set.

I'd love to browse a new line of models or pick up a new book and not have to qualify it with an excuse for trying something new rather than being invested in it

I fear old bean that is simply life. Especially those of us of a similar fine vintage.

I was born in 1980, and as such I’ve pretty much been there for the birth of home computing, and definitely the Internet Age.

When I look back upon it, there is a period (my 20’s) where everything seems to have hit hyper speed. But that might just have been booze related shenanigans.

We lack the perspective to truly spot what was and wasn’t a new iteration of Old Hat when we were young, because…well….we were young.

The best we can do is, outside of this thread which is our designated safe space, not be a Richard to folks discovering the things we love and loved for the first time. Instead we should encourage them.

born in 1980

I dunno, these kids today

Quiet you 🤣🤣🤣

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Quiet you 🤣🤣🤣

^^^ this

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Might be a difference in what excites you vs where the market has gone? Feels like we’re in a new golden age of plastics, with Stargrave and WGA and Mantic and Victrix. Dropfleet’s new spaceships still get me excited in the way a new Star Wars, Star Trek or Babylon 5 spaceship did in the old days. However, I find Games Workshop to be anti-exciting, in that new release that should excite me in theory instead leave me feeling tired and depressed on release.

That's because there is nothing innovative or interesting in what they are doing. It is a naked exercise in extracting cash from a captive player base. Every three years you get a new game, new models, new rules.

I'm old enough to remember when new editions were expected to add value. The rules were cleaner, better, maybe added new features but the primary selling point was its improvement on known flaws.

Now it's just swapping new flaws for the old ones.

I do look at some of the revised board games with interest. Better graphics there for sure. I remember when Avalon Hill thought blue and pink were nice, martial colors.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Might be a difference in what excites you vs where the market has gone? Feels like we’re in a new golden age of plastics, with Stargrave and WGA and Mantic and Victrix. Dropfleet’s new spaceships still get me excited in the way a new Star Wars, Star Trek or Babylon 5 spaceship did in the old days. However, I find Games Workshop to be anti-exciting, in that new release that should excite me in theory instead leave me feeling tired and depressed on release.

I agree. As mentioned elsewhere I've greatly enjoyed kit-bashing Northstar, WGA and assorted 3rd party bits. Greed Workshop monopose leaves me cold, and the prices make me rage. {As does their deliberate strange cuts intended to prevent kit-bashing. Really a right leg leading up to a left arm that has to be twisted into its opposite? Don't try to tell me that's for mold efficiency: I've done home-casting and know the process of mold making, even if I've never done it myself.}

Similarly, I am no longer that excited by new games. Of course, in Jr High and HS, I had few games and it was all new. Now I have an extensive collection and know people with even larger collections. So I may be initially interested, but then common sense takes over. "You already own a game on this subject, and it hasn't hit the table for a decade", and so I put it back. Or "It's an economic worker placement Euro, you know [Name Redacted] will buy it, so save the money for miniatures."

Commissar von Toussaint wrote:
I'm old enough to remember when new editions were expected to add value. The rules were cleaner, better, maybe added new features but the primary selling point was its improvement on known flaws.

Now it's just swapping new flaws for the old ones.

I do look at some of the revised board games with interest. Better graphics there for sure. I remember when Avalon Hill thought blue and pink were nice, martial colors.

Yes, with Greed Workshop's planned obsolescence of editions every three years, there is no significant continuity between rules sets, so there can be no improvement. They just exchange one set of mistakes for all new mistakes, and whatever the must-haves were for your army, they are now worthless, so you now have to buy new units at the higher prices (since GW raises prices annually regardless of economic climate). I've given up on them. With Kings of War, a new edition is a new edition in the old sense, so it is a refinement.

As for the Avalon Hill blue and pink, I'm pretty sure that comes from U.S. army wargames tradition of that time. Red is Aggressor force, and Blue is Defending force.

Something I do miss is the generalized gaming magazines like The Space Gamer. When White Dwarf was not a house organ, but covered all games. Sure, there were a lot of ad for Citadel miniatures, but the 'zine had articles on Runequest, AD&D, Traveller, hobby articles, reviews, general interest articles like a RPG oriented look at a real world society/culture and how you might add it to your RPG of choice. Good stuff. Now it might not be cost-effective for print magazines these days, and perhaps then only way to cover costs is for a magazine to be a house organ, I don't know. Still, it was pleasant to go to the LGS, look at the current issues, and pick one or two up when they had articles useful to you.

Ancestral Hamster wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Might be a difference in what excites you vs where the market has gone? Feels like we’re in a new golden age of plastics, with Stargrave and WGA and Mantic and Victrix. Dropfleet’s new spaceships still get me excited in the way a new Star Wars, Star Trek or Babylon 5 spaceship did in the old days. However, I find Games Workshop to be anti-exciting, in that new release that should excite me in theory instead leave me feeling tired and depressed on release.

I agree. As mentioned elsewhere I've greatly enjoyed kit-bashing Northstar, WGA and assorted 3rd party bits. Greed Workshop monopose leaves me cold, and the prices make me rage. {As does their deliberate strange cuts intended to prevent kit-bashing. Really a right leg leading up to a left arm that has to be twisted into its opposite? Don't try to tell me that's for mold efficiency: I've done home-casting and know the process of mold making, even if I've never done it myself.}

Similarly, I am no longer that excited by new games. Of course, in Jr High and HS, I had few games and it was all new. Now I have an extensive collection and know people with even larger collections. So I may be initially interested, but then common sense takes over. "You already own a game on this subject, and it hasn't hit the table for a decade", and so I put it back. Or "It's an economic worker placement Euro, you know [Name Redacted] will buy it, so save the money for miniatures."

Commissar von Toussaint wrote:
I'm old enough to remember when new editions were expected to add value. The rules were cleaner, better, maybe added new features but the primary selling point was its improvement on known flaws.

Now it's just swapping new flaws for the old ones.

I do look at some of the revised board games with interest. Better graphics there for sure. I remember when Avalon Hill thought blue and pink were nice, martial colors.

Yes, with Greed Workshop's planned obsolescence of editions every three years, there is no significant continuity between rules sets, so there can be no improvement. They just exchange one set of mistakes for all new mistakes, and whatever the must-haves were for your army, they are now worthless, so you now have to buy new units at the higher prices (since GW raises prices annually regardless of economic climate). I've given up on them. With Kings of War, a new edition is a new edition in the old sense, so it is a refinement.

As for the Avalon Hill blue and pink, I'm pretty sure that comes from U.S. army wargames tradition of that time. Red is Aggressor force, and Blue is Defending force.

Something I do miss is the generalized gaming magazines like The Space Gamer. When White Dwarf was not a house organ, but covered all games. Sure, there were a lot of ad for Citadel miniatures, but the 'zine had articles on Runequest, AD&D, Traveller, hobby articles, reviews, general interest articles like a RPG oriented look at a real world society/culture and how you might add it to your RPG of choice. Good stuff. Now it might not be cost-effective for print magazines these days, and perhaps then only way to cover costs is for a magazine to be a house organ, I don't know. Still, it was pleasant to go to the LGS, look at the current issues, and pick one or two up when they had articles useful to you.

There's still magazines out there if you want them but they're not anything like they used to be. There's no money in article writing compared to DIY internet fame..

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

Yo7 wrote:
Is it also lost on our generation? I don't feel any excitement for current things in pretty much any medium. I am not opposed to liking new things but anything post 2005 has rarely if ever appealed to me. It feels like watching an old vhs tape slowly repeating the same movie but wearing out. There's nothing to be excited to impulse buy even when you fancy a new model or rule set.

I'd love to browse a new line of models or pick up a new book and not have to qualify it with an excuse for trying something new rather than being invested in it

I fear old bean that is simply life. Especially those of us of a similar fine vintage.

I was born in 1980, and as such I’ve pretty much been there for the birth of home computing, and definitely the Internet Age.

When I look back upon it, there is a period (my 20’s) where everything seems to have hit hyper speed. But that might just have been booze related shenanigans.

We lack the perspective to truly spot what was and wasn’t a new iteration of Old Hat when we were young, because…well….we were young.

The best we can do is, outside of this thread which is our designated safe space, not be a Richard to folks discovering the things we love and loved for the first time. Instead we should encourage them.

I respectfully disagree. Old hat is even older now. I'm not saying the 80s and 90s were the height of originality and nothing was ever borrowed but it wasn't ubisoft games, the last of us remake 5 or Skyrim whatever edition. You went from pong to sonic to final fantasy. But leaps in technology and ideas being explored throughout a 50 year time period. We've hit a slump since then and globalism has expanded it even further. Theres no longer distinct national personalities in games, it's all become americanised. And the ironic thing is its not even American games like warmachine doing it. Its mostly the Nottingham crowd..

BobtheInquisitor wrote:Might be a difference in what excites you vs where the market has gone? Feels like we’re in a new golden age of plastics, with Stargrave and WGA and Mantic and Victrix. Dropfleet’s new spaceships still get me excited in the way a new Star Wars, Star Trek or Babylon 5 spaceship did in the old days. However, I find Games Workshop to be anti-exciting, in that new release that should excite me in theory instead leave me feeling tired and depressed on release.


Re: Cats. Yes, our used bookstores also had cats. In fact, we lost two be-catted bookstores just before the pandemic. The only extant store in my area with cats today is a comic book store that sells at suspiciously reasonable prices.

I enjoy those kits but I don't find them exciting. I would have leaned into ghazals dark fantasy style for more exciting. The current plastics are all very... safe? Functional, well cast and the right amount of painting needed but.. safe. Theres nothing beterrn gws dancing tutu wearing prancing on a rock over detailed models and safe generic fantasynin plastics these days... I want something... birthdayish.. a special center piece that isn't resin and a pain to build.

Have you looked at Kingdom Death, Conquest: Last Argument of Kings, or Malifaux? Each of those lines puts out fantastically weird centerpiece minis in plastic. I’d even recommend Ex Illis for their giant demon mini, but I doubt you can find that for a reasonable price anywhere anymore.

And that’s ignoring some of the more characterful plastics from the big companies, such as the Landsknecht (space) ogres, the Raven-riding dwarfs, or cartoonish, tailless snakemen. The big plastics producers are starting to take more risks. I’m very excited for plastic Quar when they come out.

Yo7 wrote:
I respectfully disagree. Old hat is even older now. I'm not saying the 80s and 90s were the height of originality and nothing was ever borrowed but it wasn't ubisoft games, the last of us remake 5 or Skyrim whatever edition. You went from pong to sonic to final fantasy. But leaps in technology and ideas being explored throughout a 50 year time period. We've hit a slump since then and globalism has expanded it even further. Theres no longer distinct national personalities in games, it's all become americanised. And the ironic thing is its not even American games like warmachine doing it. Its mostly the Nottingham crowd..

I will say that the 80s and 90s were a period of intense creativity and innovation, both in game design and in other spheres. Science tells us that the 80s saw the greatest diversity in music experimentation in human history. Since then, things have regressed, and the same is true in game design.

There has been a consolidation of "IP" across the board, and instead of trying to build market share by creating innovative designs, there is a definite drive to lock people into a subscription model and use market presence to enforce it.

On the one hand, yes, the internet, print-on-demand publishing has made it possible to share gaming ideas as never before.

On the other hand, capital is increasingly concentrated in fewer and fewer hands and those hands want less.

Consider: How much smaller was GW in terms of market share and market capitalization in 1995 than it is today? What was its creative output then compared to today?

Once upon a time there was TSR, and also Wizards of the Coat, and also Hasbro. Now they are one, and George Lucas holds the One Ring that rules them all.

I think the thing that can be done is to celebrate the old stuff, which has never been more accessible.

If you think about it, our generation has thrown away more creative ideas than other generations ever had. Some of them are worth a second look.

And that's why I bought Modern Naval Battles, because dammit, I couldn't afford it in the 1980s and I can today!

Modern Naval Battles was a fun game. Little more complex than Naval War, which we also played the heck out of (and made our own expansion for)

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Have you looked at Kingdom Death, Conquest: Last Argument of Kings, or Malifaux? Each of those lines puts out fantastically weird centerpiece minis in plastic. I’d even recommend Ex Illis for their giant demon mini, but I doubt you can find that for a reasonable price anywhere anymore.

And that’s ignoring some of the more characterful plastics from the big companies, such as the Landsknecht (space) ogres, the Raven-riding dwarfs, or cartoonish, tailless snakemen. The big plastics producers are starting to take more risks. I’m very excited for plastic Quar when they come out.

Conquest models are so miserable to build I would take multiple root cannels over building them. I bought an orc starter set and could not stomach them.

Kingdom death is all resin isnt it? I have lots of resin and limited time to clean resin. There's only so many models you can build outside in a mask when weather permits.

Empire ogres aren't really exciting. Lizards are okay but didn't click with me. But it still doesn't feel original or interesting. Think of how many factions today are just 80s factions continued. Here's the 2020s version of space elves? Why don't we have modern tech sci fi worlds instead of retro futurism everything still? Think of space elves but they have super advanced ai. Internet and smart phone tech. How does that look in terms of space elf warfare? That would be exciting

Kingdom Death: Monster has plastic kits for the main box and most of the expansions.

Back in my day, the Wolf Guard could all be Terminators with Cyclone Missile Launchers so when they launched all their missiles in turn 1 the blast radius could cover my entire deployment zone.

That took real character to play against armies like that!

 Easy E wrote:
Back in my day, the Wolf Guard could all be Terminators with Cyclone Missile Launchers so when they launched all their missiles in turn 1 the blast radius could cover my entire deployment zone.

That took real character to play against armies like that!

Terrain made a huge difference. All the 2nd ed. boards I played on had very clutter lines of sight. Put simply, it was hard to see from deployment zone to deployment zone, which put a premium on movement and concealment.

Today, the noobs all fret over who has the first turn, but in my day, the second turn was coveted because it allowed you to move onto the objective without risking a subsequent shooting phase.

Units could (and did) start in cover, hidden, and moved out when they were provided with adequate supporting fire (or complete disregard for sound tactics).

Kids today talk about "alpha strikes" because their rules are like dumbed-down Axis and Allies: just throw boxes of dice at each other.

Real 40k was much more subtle, using the full scope of the shooting rules to control your opponent's fire options. The "closest and easiest" target rule was a prime example: you could either throw a Demolish with a dozer blade and ablative armor out front to act as a shot sponge, or offer worthless chaff troops for the same purpose. If the opponent opens fire, on your turn you can direct a withering counter-strike.

If they don't, you move into close assault, blasting even hidden units out of their cover with plentiful templates.

Such happy times.

 Easy E wrote:
Back in my day, the Wolf Guard could all be Terminators with Cyclone Missile Launchers so when they launched all their missiles in turn 1 the blast radius could cover my entire deployment zone.

That took real character to play against armies like that!

Haha.. that's one of the things I heard spoken of, but never saw in person. I think it probably needed some commitment, even with the bits ordering service, and I can imagine the reaction of the mail order Trolls when you asked for it over the phone!

I think the worst rules abuse I saw was a humble Eldar Guardian which transformed into an assassin using polymorph and was actually in terminator armour riding a bike (they had used the old 'armour egg' squat model on a trike, which made it even more hilarious). Although I think even with the wacky 2nd ed rules didn't go that far and it wasn't allowed!

I don't like alternative activations. It feel much less involved than having to plan a whole turn and execute it or recover from it going bad. Sitting down and taking a few minutes to mull over your next turn is an enjoyable part of the game to me. Alt activations feels like a solution to lack of attention or keeping people off their phone..

Also phones should be banned at gaming tables except for emergencies or looking up rules problems. It's disrespectful to be flipping through your phone mid game, they're a tool not the center of attention over the guy sitting across from you. Having to reply to the wife once or work is understandable but I am a firm believer in engaging with what you're doing instead of focusing on electronic devices. If your phones more interesting than the table top game.. don't play the game at all. Play with your phone and save insulting the guy across the board from you.

I miss destroying a tank and having the turret pop off and kill Abaddon the Despoiler. Good times.

Started with RT. Got hit with a lot of real life. Came back toward the end of 3rd. Sometime around 5th and the release of 6th, I gave up trying to keep up. Real life hit back at the same time, and I've barely kept up with the state of the game. I loathe the primaris aesthetic and think they look like bland, generic scifi. The helmets are stupid. The floating brick vehicles, Primaris Brickcessors or whatever, are such lazy design to my eye. If you stripped away the logos and sigils, I would swear that entire line is from a knock off manufacturer. It's a little weird because I like the idea of true scale marines, but I don't like these, and I'm certainly not going to replace all the stuff I own and have painted--especially now that I feel the horrible march of time on all of my bones.

(This is just a grumpy rant. I don't begrudge the folks who love the new stuff at all, and I hope they don't begrudge me a little shouting into the wind.)

I honestly don't understand half of what people say in the 10th ed threads, lol. I don't read them anymore. It's hilarious to me, because I grew up with 40k from the very beginning, yet the new stuff feels utterly foreign. There is sooooooo much new fluff, both in the rulebooks and Black Library, I feel like a trespasser in the 40k Background forum. I'm an outsider in my own hobby.

This would have made me bitter once. I'm happy to say I don't feel that way at all. I still love the models I have and the codecies I own and read. I have plenty to paint. I pick up an odd model here or there, but I don't feel that FOMO for the exclusive Ultramarine Captain Foot-on-Rockius.

I wish I could say I knew what brought me to this place of peace. Maybe just a growing perspective on life? I don't know. If you've reached a similar place, I'd love to hear how you arrived.

 Fugazi wrote:
(This is just a grumpy rant. I don't begrudge the folks who love the new stuff at all, and I hope they don't begrudge me a little shouting into the wind.)

Well, you've come to the right place for it!

I look at the 10th ed. stuff and reminds me of all the other releases I didn't care about. I suppose there is a feeling of continuity and tradition now the children of people who first lamented a "next edition" are now old enough to do the same.

As for Primaris, I don't actually know what that is. Seems that GW is tossing around Church Latin terms like a radical splinter group from the Ordinariate of Our Lady of Walsingham. Their scapulars are blued steel or something.

Nu 40k was a soft reboot. Same way the force awakens was. They can't mothball everything so they keep the bare minimum and call it inferior to their new toys. There's a new, much more toy friendly design running through everything which is the market they seem to want. Funky pops fo4 a miniature game is insulting if not straight up an attempt to humiliate the audience and property they're from.

If you have stuff going on in life and more options than just this game it's easy to not get mad. Have fun doing something else and you can lose a hobby or two. If you have nothing else it's just problem

Here's a pretty good set of roleplaying rules. Please pay close attention.

If you want to do something, or avoid getting done by something, roll 1d6.

If you roll a 4+, you get it done, or you don't get done by it.

If you roll a 3-, you don't get it done, or you do get done by it.

If you have an ability, spell, magic item, Walmart gift certificate, or whatever, that helps you out, add 1 to the roll.

If the enemy has something like the above, and he's using it against you, subtract 1 from the roll.

That's pretty much all you need. All the rest in a decent rpg, the weapons, monsters, spaceships, ancient artifacts, etc., are idea generators that good players and GMs should look hard at to see whether they can add decent new ideas into play, whether they advance the party's interests or slow them doesn't matter.

Yo7 wrote:
If you have stuff going on in life and more options than just this game it's easy to not get mad. Have fun doing something else and you can lose a hobby or two. If you have nothing else it's just problem

This is such a good insight, and I think it’s what did it for me. Looking back, I had the most FOMO when 40k was my main hobby. Now I have a wonderful family and lots of games from the modern board game renaissance and more outdoorsy things to do. I still love 40k. But if I don’t get a game going for a while, it doesn’t matter. I have other stuff to do.

I didn’t expect to get a big life perspective on a Warhammer forum today, but here we are.

The games are last on the list of things I like to do in this hobby.
Building, converting, painting, lore.....then like 13th or so on list comes the game.

I played my last game of 40k(for the foreseeable future) last night. 10th has absolutely and actively ended my desire for 40k, even more especially so since 30k, Necromunda & epic scaled games are ACTUALLY fun.

I will continue to buy the minis that I like, but as far as the rules go, I couldn't even give a feth because giving is free and my feths cost $€£¥

Dragging us dangerously back on topic 😂😂

In the spirit of light hearted grumpiness?

Is it any surprise those damn kids can’t reach their potential when they don’t have bangers like this to drive them in?




Best those whippersnappers can hope for is some dubstep which sounds like someone having a really really bad time on the lavvy after a dodgy Prawn Biryani. Without the pleasure of first having said Prawn Biryani.

And that’s low level inspiration as they go.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Dragging us dangerously back on topic 😂😂

In the spirit of light hearted grumpiness?

Is it any surprise those damn kids can’t reach their potential when they don’t have bangers like this to drive them in?

But is it the final countdown?

The Big Switch for me was the complete lack of anything other than the battle to fasten onto. In 2nd, you could have fun sidebar narratives about the units and characters (and individual vehicles!) and follow them. Even if you used the (widely adopted) streamline rules (follow the link, kids) and wanted to play a higher points battle, you still kept those lovely moments when the chaplain burst out of hiding, survived overwatch thanks to his rosarius and hurled the haywire grenade at the lead tank to block the road to the objective with its wreck, only to die when the turret landed on him.

Back in the say, it was okay to lose, so long as you lost with style.

Now there is no style, it's all alpha-strike, all the time.

Which brings me to another topic, the fact that no one even knew that word. Old-school wargames were designed to be tests of strategy but also endurance. Yeah, there were games you could win in a turn, and everyone quit playing them. The Axis and Allies nerds figured out some slick gambits, and MB changed the damn rules because it's GLOBAL WAR, not a tennis game where the first ace wins.

And the notion of buying your way to victory??? Not even. The micro-armor guys were wise to that - players who wanted to field every single Puma chassis ever built in a single battlefield. No, Melvin, try something else.

To put it another way, people who tried to engineer the irresistible arrmy were rightly shunned as losers and try-hards. Now it's a recognized and lauded skill. Thanks, GW.

Commissar von Toussaint wrote:
The Axis and Allies nerds figured out some slick gambits, and MB changed the damn rules because it's GLOBAL WAR, not a tennis game where the first ace wins.

Ah, Axis and Allies.

My first and only game of the original--well, either the 1981 or 1984 version, I can't remember--was against two other players. I was Japan and had no idea what I was doing. But I can speak some Japanese, so at least I brought some authenticity to the proceedings.

Early in the game I randomly rolled the aeroplane distance upgrade (supercharged engines or something). I promptly started attacking America directly, from the far side of the Pacific. By the time we had to pack up, I had launched a land invasion of the United States.

Didn't last long before my units were surrounded and overwhelmed ... but good god it was worth it for the disbelief on the American player's face. He was an A&A veteran and had never seen that happen before. Neither had the spectators at the table. Beginner's luck is hilarious.