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Well for Eldar and marines i already heard nerfs are on the way, and their on the chopping block by the looks, reddit is aflame with the lion.

Honestly i don't care about the beakies or knife ears, just krump them.

That's why i prefer balanced armies, and i think we are quite balanced, we have answers and tools to deal with high T but not easily. No army should be able to handle high T easily and not have a weakness somewhere else.


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Beardedragon wrote:
If you run 10 man units of boys or snagga boys, would you still run warbosses, painbosses or what ever leader with them?

Like, you could almost pay for an entirely new unit for each leader.

I think it might be worth a while, currently it's very difficult to validate MSU but their might be a spot, the painboy recovers models and prevent damage, it makes boy tarpiting more effective. Obviously, mileage may vary. But i think their in a quite good spot, we have options that's what i wanted at least.

Forceride wrote:
Well for Eldar and marines i already heard nerfs are on the way, and their on the chopping block by the looks, reddit is aflame with the lion.

Honestly i don't care about the beakies or knife ears, just krump them.

That's why i prefer balanced armies, and i think we are quite balanced, we have answers and tools to deal with high T but not easily. No army should be able to handle high T easily and not have a weakness somewhere else.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Beardedragon wrote:
If you run 10 man units of boys or snagga boys, would you still run warbosses, painbosses or what ever leader with them?

Like, you could almost pay for an entirely new unit for each leader.

I think it might be worth a while, currently it's very difficult to validate MSU but their might be a spot, the painboy recovers models and prevent damage, it makes boy tarpiting more effective. Obviously, mileage may vary. But i think their in a quite good spot, we have options that's what i wanted at least.

Because i had a list i havent tried (since i havent tried a single game yet) where i had 3x beast snagga boys, with beast boss, beastboss and painboss, in those units.

It just felt like i got almost no models on the table when having to pay for 2 beastbosses and a painboss.

On the other hand i could possibly pay for 20 more beast snaggas if i didnt buy any of the characters

Beardedragon wrote:
If you run 10 man units of boys or snagga boys, would you still run warbosses, painbosses or what ever leader with them?

Like, you could almost pay for an entirely new unit for each leader.

If anyone wants me to run numbers, just lemme know the conditions.
Not particularly interested in 10th, but I like math.

 JNAProductions wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:
If you run 10 man units of boys or snagga boys, would you still run warbosses, painbosses or what ever leader with them?

Like, you could almost pay for an entirely new unit for each leader.

If anyone wants me to run numbers, just lemme know the conditions.
Not particularly interested in 10th, but I like math.

Ill take you up on that.

10 man boys with a painboy versus 10 man boys with a KFF. Whats best?

And if you can, find out, if its best to run beast snagga boys with a painboss, beastboss, or without. From a points per damage/points per save value point of view. Should you just save the points of the leader and buy an entirely new unit of boys?

I absolutely would run at least a leader in a 20 man unit of snagga boys, but im really unsure if i want to do that on a 10 man unit.

I said run numbers, not evaluate tactics and strategy.
As mentioned, I don't like what I've seen of 10th-if you have specific scenarios you're having trouble with the numbers on, I'll double check by running the numbers myself, but general tactics... Nah.

 JNAProductions wrote:
I said run numbers, not evaluate tactics and strategy.
As mentioned, I don't like what I've seen of 10th-if you have specific scenarios you're having trouble with the numbers on, I'll double check by running the numbers myself, but general tactics... Nah.

as far as im aware it is a numbers question.

Boys with KFF big mek versus Boys with a painboy. What saves the most, with different AP values.

Sure it requires a spread sheet for different strength and ap valued attacks but i figured thats what you wanted.

But if you wanted something more simple then this:
Damage difference between 8 lootas (and 2 spanners) moving but not in a transport so they benefit from rerolls of 1 but hitting on 6s (and another scenario where they shoot at someone at an objective) and being in a transport, getting +1 to hit from a mek but getting no values from their abilities.

Also need damage for weapon as getting hit by dam2 hurts painboy lot if 1w unit. Improves for 2w units though...

Just ap not enough.

Also painboy better vs mortals obviously.

if you are going by damage output and durability per point. you'll never use boyz again. well maybe to tarpit with 20 of them or to teleport them with weirboy

but in 90% of the situations you are better off with snaggaz. especially now that you can either take 10 or 20. nothing in between.

painboss looks good because i wanna run a couple of trukks. and space is at a premium here... i need those snaggaz to hit hard and survive as long as possible

3 s9 attacks, 5+++ , bringing back d3 snaggaz and occasionally heal a character 3 wounds is nothing to scoff at

i would at least try him out. maybe beastboss is better... time will tell.

tneva82 wrote:
Also need damage for weapon as getting hit by dam2 hurts painboy lot if 1w unit. Improves for 2w units though...

Just ap not enough.

Also painboy better vs mortals obviously.

Yes and damage. But how many attacks actually give mortal wounds? I have no clue, i only play orks. And we dont have a ton of it.


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RedNoak wrote:
if you are going by damage output and durability per point. you'll never use boyz again. well maybe to tarpit with 20 of them or to teleport them with weirboy

but in 90% of the situations you are better off with snaggaz. especially now that you can either take 10 or 20. nothing in between.

painboss looks good because i wnna run a couple of trukk. and space is at a premium here... i need thosesnaggaz to hit hard and survive as long as possible

3 s9 attacks, 5+++ , bringing back d3 snaggaz and occasionally heal a character 3 wounds is nothing to scoff at

i would at least try him out. maybe beastboss is better... time will tell.

I actually thought about bringing 20 boyz and a painboy and just slamming them on an objective, but my problem is that i have NO idea how durable they are in this new edition. It sounds good on paper.

Beardedragon wrote:

Yes and damage. But how many attacks actually give mortal wounds? I have no clue, i only play orks. And we dont have a ton of it.

Thanks to devastating wounds quite a lot.

Nevermind until you face armies that really specialize at it like thousand sons.

Also field is only good vs ranged. Though whether you survive any melee that charges you anyway...

But word I heard today at gaming night was generally "so many mw's". Without even factoring in my thousands sons who were doing pretty silly amount despite my terminator blob getting to to their mw spam only once and forgetting to use doom bolt once.

So mw's feel like they could be a worry.

I a not sure it's worth paying extra 40pts for a beastsnagga boys + painboss

Boyz + painboy are 250... their both same amount of wounds and save, just cheaper

The rerolls do little since their not intended to fight bit T units, anything above 5T and they will struggle anyway so why bother, their a tarpit unit, bring 20 at 210 and that's fine, their good versus infantry and taking damage but that's it.

They might bog down a monster or vehicle maybe shave a wound or 2 but i am not seeing them take it down.

I think this is intentional. I am not even counting the 2 rokkets the boys can have, just the normal profile, been thinking if actually shoota boys is better in them, that's how unimpressive both profiles are. Anyway i will be testing them.

JNAProductions i actually interested in your skills, what do the numbers say of nobz claws or big chopas vs something like T10 save 3 or 2? do the extra attacks make a difference versus the penalty? How big of a difference the extra pip of AP is? I really would like to run simulations on these, i recall having a site, i need to check if they updated, but i am trying to cross numbers with other people. So far i see nobz as the winner for efficiency threat for point but i need to run some numbers.

Crunching the numbers for a block of 10 with out boss buffs or exploding i am coming at around 6w dealt for both, 8w with boss, with a very small edge for claws on save 2, but very similar results for save 3.

snaggaz actually have some punch behind them.

27 attacks with strengh 5 (36 s6 on whaagh) with ap -1 hitting on 3+ is nothing to glance over...

vs murinz
27*2/3*2/3*1/2 = 6 so 3 dead marines
plus claw and exploding 6's... call it 4 dead marines on average.
on whaagh its 5 dead. they basically *could* make their points back in one turn of combat

for tarpitting... normal boyz with painboy can withstand quiet some damage (especially if you want to throw 1cp in for -1 to wound)


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lol

just found out that gretchins are T5 in close combat

kudos to Killatores over in YMDC

Only the runtherd right?

Honestly I reckon boyz are more for buff carrying than actual damage output. Ideal combination is 20 boyz, warboss and waaghbanner. The boss has pretty good damage output on the waaagh turn, especially with Headchoppa to throw in some extra mortals. And the banner lets you do it all twice, giving boys that invul twice to boot.

Though having a mix is a decent idea. A beastboss charging into any monster or vehicle is gonna hurt, dev wounds on the charge and anti vehicle means maybe 6 mortal wounds on a big thing on average?

Forceride wrote:
Only the runtherd right?

nope the whole unit^^

check out the YMDC thread for details... but to summarize:
runtherd is not a character, so he is just part of the normal unit
page 15 rules commentary

If a non-Attached unit contains models with different Toughness
characteristics, for the purpose of determining that unit’s Toughness
characteristic, use the highest Toughness characteristic amongst all
of that unit’s models.

thats why the runterds ability 'runtherd' says: as long as gretchin models are in the unit, his toughness has the value 2
but it only specifies RANGED attacks

Runtherd: While this unit contains one or more Gretchin
models, each time a ranged attack targets this unit, Runtherd
models in this unit have a Toughness characteristic of 2.

so yeah against melee attacks you use his normal T5, so the whole unit is treated as T5

its obviously a mistake... like thrakka taking only 1 space in a trukk. still funny.

that's sick! And feel's intentional, that's pretty cool rule interaction right there.

I've been running 3x10 boys + warboss in trukks as the base for my army and it's dominated in all my games, especially with ghaz nearby for the lethal hits. Also mozrog is way better than normal squigboss w/ killchoppa. Squigboss is still good, but mozrog is auto take imo. I also tried out the gorkanaut in my last game...blew up first turn . I still won though because triple boys/boss combo and mozrog hits like a trukk in waaagh turn.


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Just saw the -1 wound T5 grots trick on fb and will for sure be using that. Absolutely hilarious 😂

Are the 20 boyz mobs a trap or not with the new engagement rule?

 Tomsug wrote:
Are the 20 boyz mobs a trap or not with the new engagement rule?

Boyz are vehicles for characters. If you don't want any of the leaders (Warboss and Weirdboy being the big ones here), you don't want boyz.

If you do want one of the leaders, I'd go with a 10/10 split between shootas and choppas, putting shootas (and rokkits) in the back and removing them first when you take casualties.

I've been considering a green tide list over the weekend. Here's what I'm considering for the core of the army.

10x Lootas = 110pts
20 Boyz + Painboy + Warboss = 320pts
20 Boyz + Painboy + Warboss = 320pts
20 Boyz + Weirdboy + Warboss = 295pts
Battlewagon containing 20 Boyz + Waagh Banner + Mek = 470pts
So that puts me at 1515pts with 80 Boyz, I've got another 20 I can field but unfortunately you can only do double Leader if one of them is a Warboss and I've already hit Rule of 3.

So I've got 485pts left and here are some of the options in my collection to take as support.
Put the Lootas in a Trukk with a Mek for +1 Hit = 95pts
Increase Lootas to 15 and add a KFF = 120pts
Shokkjump Dragsta = 85pts
Kommandos = 135pts
Dakkajet = 135pts
Wagon + 10x Nobz (would probably move the Banner Nob here as well) = 280pts
Another Battlewagon to transport Boyz = 185pts
Another 20x Boyz + Weirdboy for Da Jump in a different Round = 225
3x Deff Koptas = 115pts

This is where the inflexible model count has made it difficult getting it up to 2000pts Looking for suggestions on which of these would be efficient choices so I can round out my tide of boyz My local group tends to favor infantry (Marines, 1k Sons, WE, Necrons & Eldar) although there are two Knight players.

You want gretchin for obj camping and co generation.

5stormboyz for quick obj grabbing via deep strike (like tablequarters, edgescanning etc)

I don't know about dragsta... For jumping around and grabbing obj maybe... But the shooting seems horrible

Finally managed to get my first game in. It was 2vs2 with 1000 pts each, I brought 3 Trukks with 5 Nobs+Warboss w Hwkc, 10 Beastsnaggas + Cybork Beastboss and 5 flash gitz + Badrukk, 10 grots, 3 Mekgunz (1 each of Traktor kannon bubble chukka and kmk) + shokkattackmek. I found overwatch from a knight crusader very oppressiv. 30+ high strength shots with reroll 1 and sustained hits for 1 cp is really nasty - and it is very difficult to stay out of Los in both movement and charge phase. Cost me 6 of the 10 snaggas. Mek gunz and shokk attack were great, beastboss is really tanky and flash gitz offer good shooting. Game was a win on mission, but we were nearly wiped out... CC seems so much harder, esp. Against high T knights...

 The Red Hobbit wrote:
I've been considering a green tide list over the weekend. Here's what I'm considering for the core of the army.

10x Lootas = 110pts
20 Boyz + Painboy + Warboss = 320pts
20 Boyz + Painboy + Warboss = 320pts
20 Boyz + Weirdboy + Warboss = 295pts
Battlewagon containing 20 Boyz + Waagh Banner + Mek = 470pts
So that puts me at 1515pts with 80 Boyz, I've got another 20 I can field but unfortunately you can only do double Leader if one of them is a Warboss and I've already hit Rule of 3.

So I've got 485pts left and here are some of the options in my collection to take as support.
Put the Lootas in a Trukk with a Mek for +1 Hit = 95pts
Increase Lootas to 15 and add a KFF = 120pts
Shokkjump Dragsta = 85pts
Kommandos = 135pts
Dakkajet = 135pts
Wagon + 10x Nobz (would probably move the Banner Nob here as well) = 280pts
Another Battlewagon to transport Boyz = 185pts
Another 20x Boyz + Weirdboy for Da Jump in a different Round = 225
3x Deff Koptas = 115pts

This is where the inflexible model count has made it difficult getting it up to 2000pts Looking for suggestions on which of these would be efficient choices so I can round out my tide of boyz My local group tends to favor infantry (Marines, 1k Sons, WE, Necrons & Eldar) although there are two Knight players.

Get something against high T or you will only tickle some list's. Mek guns, wazboom etc


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also the warhammer app from GW is out, as expected the app will be paywalled shortly

"Get something against high T or you will only tickle some list's. Mek guns, wazboom etc"

Dont waste points on the Wazbom, it has only d3 shoots with the big gun, its worthless... Mek guns can be good, atleast they are cheap

Yeah I think Mek Guns are the way to go, I'll have to order some. I'm curious if they'll interact well with the Mek Boy's Workshop since both units will likely stay stationary.

I noticed on the warhammer app that you can add individual models to units instead of having to do the 5-10 increments. Hopefully that means we won’t be stuck in this power level hell when the codex drops.

Mekguns w shokk atk gun is the way to go

gungo wrote:
Anyone think it’s worth putting kommandos into a gorkanaut to scout move?

Has to be a Dedicated Transport to scout.

 JohnU wrote:

gungo wrote:
Anyone think it’s worth putting kommandos into a gorkanaut to scout move?

Has to be a Dedicated Transport to scout.

Well there goes that cool idea :p

Wazboom is useless. Mek Gunz / SAG