Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I used the Wolverine thing as an example of what I understand male gaze and female gaze to mean

Different things to different people, divorced from the context of its origins, colour by culture and individual, and used to create understanding, and misunderstanding, and as a cudgel. Like most things.

The wolverine search led to someone comparing the cover of a muscle magazine to a housekeeping magazine as if the two were remotely the same thing. Put Jackman on the cover of a 'male-focused' model train magazine and they'd dress him like Mr Rogers, search for a female muscle magazine and it's going to be huge jackedwoman all the way.


Same thing for fem-custodes - some people see an attempt to create wider diversity, some see lazy marketing, and others see a cudgel by be wielded by or against them.

is "male gaze" just a dirty word for "admire?"

shadowsfm wrote:
is "male gaze" just a dirty word for "admire?"

Not really, no.

Lol. It's the macro "ick".

It's purely my own anecdotal experience but at the 2 FLGS'es I frequent representation is largely irrelevant and it's more about "these models look cool and I like the backstory." We got guys playing Sisters of Battle, gals playing Marines or nids and even tall people playing Squats.

If we were to believe the internet and that representation of the player is a big part of wargaming what are they saying about the people playing germans in flames of war or bolt action?

Anywho, even if GW had done a proper lore explanation and had actually released female custodes models they probably wouldn't be selling like hotcakes because at least in my opinion GW is pretty bad at making female faces when compared to other companies like Reaper Miniatures, Kingdom Death and Corvus Belli. That's why I have helmets on all my SoB's and 3d printed heads for my SoS :/

Duymon wrote:

If we were to believe the internet and that representation of the player is a big part of wargaming what are they saying about the people playing germans in flames of war or bolt action?

Some of them get called Wehraboos

Duymon wrote:
If we were to believe the internet and that representation of the player is a big part of wargaming what are they saying about the people playing germans in flames of war or bolt action?

I think there's a big difference between Warhammer and historical miniatures games, where the former is much more often a creative exercise akin to making a D&D character. We pick an army and choose models we like the look of and paint them in schemes we like. Some go as far as to name their general and give them a backstory, et cetera. Those extroverted and talented among us might go so far as to cosplay our chosen faction.

Most people playing as the Germans in Flames of War generally don't do to this extent - correct me if I'm off base here. For historical games, especially those covering wars only a few generations in the past - for stuff like Vikings v. Britons the historical distance has lent them a certain comfortable degree of unreality - it would be considered kind of weird for someone to get so into the Germans as to show up to the store dressed as an officer and inventing their own OCs. This is reasonably well-trodden ground for discussion, and the old bit by David Mitchell about how Vikings weren't considered problematic to cheer for in culture anymore might be relevant: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJqEKYbh-LU

 Agamemnon2 wrote:


I think there's a big difference between Warhammer and historical miniatures games, where the former is much more often a creative exercise akin to making a D&D character. We pick an army and choose models we like the look of and paint them in schemes we like. Some go as far as to name their general and give them a backstory, et cetera. Those extroverted and talented among us might go so far as to cosplay our chosen faction.

I would like to introduce you to Historical Re-enactment.

Where fans of ancient nations don't just create their own characters, dress up as them, but even get together in large groups to play out fights, scenes and events. Heck they even go the extra mile and recreate villages/towns and life in them at events the public attend.


I think WW 1 and 2 are different only in so much as they are so recent that many of us have at least had a parent/grandparent directly involved with it or still feeling the after effects of it. Though as each decade passes these numbers dwindle and the disconnection with the event becomes greater. Eventually WW1 and 2 will likely slip into the same shoes as Vikings.




So nope I don't think historical and fantasy are too much different on that front. People still project themselves into the game and get caught up in the story. The difference is the "lore" for fantasy is made up whilst the lore for reality is based on historical fact. Historical games also have a whole wing of simulating real world encounters where the objective is to see if they can re-create history or change history. Fantasy games don't really have that because there are no real events to play out and creators of fantasy games have never really pushed for that format to be a thing. I suspect its also somewhat linked to game scale - fantasy and sci fi, whilst having 8-20mm (which simulate much larger battles more viably than 28-32mm) they've never, thus far, become mainstream big popular formats like they are with historical games.
But in the end I think its just something fantasy army creators have never really explored

A.T. wrote:
...some see lazy marketing...

Let's be honest: there's a segment of this hobby that will always accuse GW of lazy 'everything'.

...and others see a cudgel by be wielded by or against them.

The only people who see this as a cudgel are the 'no girls allowed' crowd. The last 35+ pages make that pretty clear. And let's not forget that virtually all of the removed posts were from that camp.

 Overread wrote:

I would like to introduce you to Historical Re-enactment.

That's a good point, and one I omitted because I don't know any reenators myself so I couldn't assay how accurate my cliche impressions of that community were and how much overlap there was between them and wargamers.

I'm absolutely flabbergasted that I'm saying this, but Discourse Minis, one of the chief peddlers of manufactured warhammer drama, has a pretty good take on this manufactured warhammer drama.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WVZlQW_pb8

Not embedding, sorry not sorry.

 Manfred von Drakken wrote:
Let's be honest: there's a segment of this hobby that will always accuse GW of lazy 'everything'.

True, but 'we have always been at war with eastasia' is blunt at best.

A lot of people feel disenfranchised about the world in general and telling them that what they know is wrong, no questions asked, just push them towards asshats who are ready to tell them that they are right.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
I'm absolutely flabbergasted that I'm saying this, but Discourse Minis, one of the chief peddlers of manufactured warhammer drama, has a pretty good take on this manufactured warhammer drama.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WVZlQW_pb8

Not embedding, sorry not sorry.

That comment section is an absolute dumpster fire

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

That comment section is an absolute dumpster fire

Jesus Christ I didn't even look. Then again, it always is on youtube, the whole platform is a reactionary cesspool. Personally when I need to restore my faith in humanity I look for the same topic on Imgur.

How Discourse manages to keep doing what she does with an inbox that's, I imagine, even worse than her comments section, I don't think I'll ever quite understand. I don't think I've ever seen anyone give her positive reaction or feedback on any topic, even the more levelheaded ones.

All that vitriol and excrement, it's like Andry Dufresne in that sewer pipe, except there's monetization at the end of it, I guess.

 Agamemnon2 wrote:
All that vitriol and excrement, it's like Andry Dufresne in that sewer pipe, except there's monetization at the end of it, I guess.

Apropos of nothing else, that is some quality wordsmithery right there 😀

Mod edit - removed

Grzzldgamerps5 wrote:
Mod edit - removed

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transhuman

Also you're going to have a heart attack when you read the lore for Tyranids and Slaanesh.

 Insectum7 wrote:
^Another bangin' post from catbarf. Nice.

As I've been thinking about all this I've come to another realization and just want to post about a shift in the demographic locally that's been really bugging me. And that's that my game shop has gone from blue-collar to white-collar.

When I was showing up to hobby night 10 years ago, we had a security guard or two, an ex boxer, a mailman, a bike repair guy, the shop-keeps, a commission painter, a short-order cook, a nurse, and a smattering of computer engineers along with a number of local students.

These days when I show up to hobby night it's more computer engineers, data analists, marketing strategists, hardware prototypers and other higher-education types. It's been a heck of a shift. There's been more women, and that's nice (none of whom I've seen play, just paint), but the occupational shift has been stark. Incidentally the old crew was more racially diverse, and the new crew is predominently white and asian.

I mostly chalk that up to local demographics shifting about, but I have seen one or two of them show up on nights when cheaper games are being played, Battletech iirc, which makes me think that the aggressive churn of 40k might also be part of it.

Yes I have seen a massive shift in class of who plays wargames. Used to be lots of blue collar/lower middle class. That former group very scarce now. Not sure why, perhaps we didn't get our kids into it? Other things have died of too, for example the who railway thing, in numbers if not sales. Maybe this was how wargaming stayed alive?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Of all the posts I could respond to, things I could argue (quick, someone on the internet is wrong!), I have eventually realised... It seems some people had the defining traits in 40k as gender and sex. And not the NSFW kind. Just mundane one. I eventually realised in the 36 years I have been playing with toy soldiers, not once was whether the model was male or female an issue. I am really baffled at all these people for whom it apparently is.

The_Real_Chris wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
^Another bangin' post from catbarf. Nice.

As I've been thinking about all this I've come to another realization and just want to post about a shift in the demographic locally that's been really bugging me. And that's that my game shop has gone from blue-collar to white-collar.

When I was showing up to hobby night 10 years ago, we had a security guard or two, an ex boxer, a mailman, a bike repair guy, the shop-keeps, a commission painter, a short-order cook, a nurse, and a smattering of computer engineers along with a number of local students.

These days when I show up to hobby night it's more computer engineers, data analists, marketing strategists, hardware prototypers and other higher-education types. It's been a heck of a shift. There's been more women, and that's nice (none of whom I've seen play, just paint), but the occupational shift has been stark. Incidentally the old crew was more racially diverse, and the new crew is predominently white and asian.

I mostly chalk that up to local demographics shifting about, but I have seen one or two of them show up on nights when cheaper games are being played, Battletech iirc, which makes me think that the aggressive churn of 40k might also be part of it.

Yes I have seen a massive shift in class of who plays wargames. Used to be lots of blue collar/lower middle class. That former group very scarce now. Not sure why, perhaps we didn't get our kids into it? Other things have died of too, for example the who railway thing, in numbers if not sales. Maybe this was how wargaming stayed alive?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Of all the posts I could respond to, things I could argue (quick, someone on the internet is wrong!), I have eventually realised... It seems some people had the defining traits in 40k as gender and sex. And not the NSFW kind. Just mundane one. I eventually realised in the 36 years I have been playing with toy soldiers, not once was whether the model was male or female an issue. I am really baffled at all these people for whom it apparently is.

Chris, I'm going to make the assumption you're male?
Because if you are, you're represented in 40k, and most all other media to boot. The typical show, movie, whatever-it's designed, if not FOR male audiences, at least with male audiences in mind.

The same is not true for women. It's getting better, that's for sure! But in different steps in different medias. And there's still a way to go.

I think for narrative players, just being able to represent and explore different characters is important. It’s fairly basic desire that I think is fairly normal.
In a setting that’s often held up as one of the best ever, it’s kind surprising how little it gets to explore. Both the bad and the good within the setting.

 JNAProductions wrote:
Chris, I'm going to make the assumption you're male?
Because if you are, you're represented in 40k, and most all other media to boot. The typical show, movie, whatever-it's designed, if not FOR male audiences, at least with male audiences in mind.

The same is not true for women. It's getting better, that's for sure! But in different steps in different medias. And there's still a way to go.

Oh I get that, I meant more that you could make every single model female and I wouldn't bat an eye, and if that got more people playing great. I guess i don't see them as gendered models, just as playing pieces. I might be different if playing historicals/present day, if the females involved weren't accurate, but even then I would shrug and focus on the rules system.

 JNAProductions wrote:

The_Real_Chris wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
^Another bangin' post from catbarf. Nice.

As I've been thinking about all this I've come to another realization and just want to post about a shift in the demographic locally that's been really bugging me. And that's that my game shop has gone from blue-collar to white-collar.

When I was showing up to hobby night 10 years ago, we had a security guard or two, an ex boxer, a mailman, a bike repair guy, the shop-keeps, a commission painter, a short-order cook, a nurse, and a smattering of computer engineers along with a number of local students.

These days when I show up to hobby night it's more computer engineers, data analists, marketing strategists, hardware prototypers and other higher-education types. It's been a heck of a shift. There's been more women, and that's nice (none of whom I've seen play, just paint), but the occupational shift has been stark. Incidentally the old crew was more racially diverse, and the new crew is predominently white and asian.

I mostly chalk that up to local demographics shifting about, but I have seen one or two of them show up on nights when cheaper games are being played, Battletech iirc, which makes me think that the aggressive churn of 40k might also be part of it.

Yes I have seen a massive shift in class of who plays wargames. Used to be lots of blue collar/lower middle class. That former group very scarce now. Not sure why, perhaps we didn't get our kids into it? Other things have died of too, for example the who railway thing, in numbers if not sales. Maybe this was how wargaming stayed alive?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Of all the posts I could respond to, things I could argue (quick, someone on the internet is wrong!), I have eventually realised... It seems some people had the defining traits in 40k as gender and sex. And not the NSFW kind. Just mundane one. I eventually realised in the 36 years I have been playing with toy soldiers, not once was whether the model was male or female an issue. I am really baffled at all these people for whom it apparently is.

Chris, I'm going to make the assumption you're male?
Because if you are, you're represented in 40k, and most all other media to boot. The typical show, movie, whatever-it's designed, if not FOR male audiences, at least with male audiences in mind.

The same is not true for women. It's getting better, that's for sure! But in different steps in different medias. And there's still a way to go.

Women are represented in 40K too, as well as other media. And I argue that there is a hell of a lot more genderless marketing than there is gendered marketing, so we can lose the whole patriarchy talk.

 Just Tony wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:

The_Real_Chris wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
^Another bangin' post from catbarf. Nice.

As I've been thinking about all this I've come to another realization and just want to post about a shift in the demographic locally that's been really bugging me. And that's that my game shop has gone from blue-collar to white-collar.

When I was showing up to hobby night 10 years ago, we had a security guard or two, an ex boxer, a mailman, a bike repair guy, the shop-keeps, a commission painter, a short-order cook, a nurse, and a smattering of computer engineers along with a number of local students.

These days when I show up to hobby night it's more computer engineers, data analists, marketing strategists, hardware prototypers and other higher-education types. It's been a heck of a shift. There's been more women, and that's nice (none of whom I've seen play, just paint), but the occupational shift has been stark. Incidentally the old crew was more racially diverse, and the new crew is predominently white and asian.

I mostly chalk that up to local demographics shifting about, but I have seen one or two of them show up on nights when cheaper games are being played, Battletech iirc, which makes me think that the aggressive churn of 40k might also be part of it.

Yes I have seen a massive shift in class of who plays wargames. Used to be lots of blue collar/lower middle class. That former group very scarce now. Not sure why, perhaps we didn't get our kids into it? Other things have died of too, for example the who railway thing, in numbers if not sales. Maybe this was how wargaming stayed alive?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Of all the posts I could respond to, things I could argue (quick, someone on the internet is wrong!), I have eventually realised... It seems some people had the defining traits in 40k as gender and sex. And not the NSFW kind. Just mundane one. I eventually realised in the 36 years I have been playing with toy soldiers, not once was whether the model was male or female an issue. I am really baffled at all these people for whom it apparently is.

Chris, I'm going to make the assumption you're male?
Because if you are, you're represented in 40k, and most all other media to boot. The typical show, movie, whatever-it's designed, if not FOR male audiences, at least with male audiences in mind.

The same is not true for women. It's getting better, that's for sure! But in different steps in different medias. And there's still a way to go.

Women are represented in 40K too, as well as other media. And I argue that there is a hell of a lot more genderless marketing than there is gendered marketing, so we can lose the whole patriarchy talk.

Seriously asking, are you being sarcastic? You think marketing is more genderless than gendered? Do you mind if I ask what country you put your blinders on in?

 Just Tony wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:

The_Real_Chris wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
^Another bangin' post from catbarf. Nice.

As I've been thinking about all this I've come to another realization and just want to post about a shift in the demographic locally that's been really bugging me. And that's that my game shop has gone from blue-collar to white-collar.

When I was showing up to hobby night 10 years ago, we had a security guard or two, an ex boxer, a mailman, a bike repair guy, the shop-keeps, a commission painter, a short-order cook, a nurse, and a smattering of computer engineers along with a number of local students.

These days when I show up to hobby night it's more computer engineers, data analists, marketing strategists, hardware prototypers and other higher-education types. It's been a heck of a shift. There's been more women, and that's nice (none of whom I've seen play, just paint), but the occupational shift has been stark. Incidentally the old crew was more racially diverse, and the new crew is predominently white and asian.

I mostly chalk that up to local demographics shifting about, but I have seen one or two of them show up on nights when cheaper games are being played, Battletech iirc, which makes me think that the aggressive churn of 40k might also be part of it.

Yes I have seen a massive shift in class of who plays wargames. Used to be lots of blue collar/lower middle class. That former group very scarce now. Not sure why, perhaps we didn't get our kids into it? Other things have died of too, for example the who railway thing, in numbers if not sales. Maybe this was how wargaming stayed alive?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Of all the posts I could respond to, things I could argue (quick, someone on the internet is wrong!), I have eventually realised... It seems some people had the defining traits in 40k as gender and sex. And not the NSFW kind. Just mundane one. I eventually realised in the 36 years I have been playing with toy soldiers, not once was whether the model was male or female an issue. I am really baffled at all these people for whom it apparently is.

Chris, I'm going to make the assumption you're male?
Because if you are, you're represented in 40k, and most all other media to boot. The typical show, movie, whatever-it's designed, if not FOR male audiences, at least with male audiences in mind.

The same is not true for women. It's getting better, that's for sure! But in different steps in different medias. And there's still a way to go.

Women are represented in 40K too, as well as other media. And I argue that there is a hell of a lot more genderless marketing than there is gendered marketing, so we can lose the whole patriarchy talk.

i wanna know what things you're seeing advertised with non-binary people. did 40k stop using space marines as the face of the game when i wasn't looking?

 Just Tony wrote:
Women are represented in 40K too, as well as other media. And I argue that there is a hell of a lot more genderless marketing than there is gendered marketing, so we can lose the whole patriarchy talk.

Until there IS no patriarchy, we NEED to keep talking about it.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:

 Just Tony wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:

The_Real_Chris wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
^Another bangin' post from catbarf. Nice.

As I've been thinking about all this I've come to another realization and just want to post about a shift in the demographic locally that's been really bugging me. And that's that my game shop has gone from blue-collar to white-collar.

When I was showing up to hobby night 10 years ago, we had a security guard or two, an ex boxer, a mailman, a bike repair guy, the shop-keeps, a commission painter, a short-order cook, a nurse, and a smattering of computer engineers along with a number of local students.

These days when I show up to hobby night it's more computer engineers, data analists, marketing strategists, hardware prototypers and other higher-education types. It's been a heck of a shift. There's been more women, and that's nice (none of whom I've seen play, just paint), but the occupational shift has been stark. Incidentally the old crew was more racially diverse, and the new crew is predominently white and asian.

I mostly chalk that up to local demographics shifting about, but I have seen one or two of them show up on nights when cheaper games are being played, Battletech iirc, which makes me think that the aggressive churn of 40k might also be part of it.

Yes I have seen a massive shift in class of who plays wargames. Used to be lots of blue collar/lower middle class. That former group very scarce now. Not sure why, perhaps we didn't get our kids into it? Other things have died of too, for example the who railway thing, in numbers if not sales. Maybe this was how wargaming stayed alive?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Of all the posts I could respond to, things I could argue (quick, someone on the internet is wrong!), I have eventually realised... It seems some people had the defining traits in 40k as gender and sex. And not the NSFW kind. Just mundane one. I eventually realised in the 36 years I have been playing with toy soldiers, not once was whether the model was male or female an issue. I am really baffled at all these people for whom it apparently is.

Chris, I'm going to make the assumption you're male?
Because if you are, you're represented in 40k, and most all other media to boot. The typical show, movie, whatever-it's designed, if not FOR male audiences, at least with male audiences in mind.

The same is not true for women. It's getting better, that's for sure! But in different steps in different medias. And there's still a way to go.

Women are represented in 40K too, as well as other media. And I argue that there is a hell of a lot more genderless marketing than there is gendered marketing, so we can lose the whole patriarchy talk.

Seriously asking, are you being sarcastic? You think marketing is more genderless than gendered? Do you mind if I ask what country you put your blinders on in?

The US, and I never said that there wasn't gendered marketing, but that agendered marketing is the predominance as everyone spends money nowadays. I know this may come as a blinding shock to you, but corporations really don't want to kneecap half their sales by making something cater to one demographic specifically. Unless it's a niche item which has to cater to one demographic specifically.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 StudentOfEtherium wrote:

 Just Tony wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:

The_Real_Chris wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
^Another bangin' post from catbarf. Nice.

As I've been thinking about all this I've come to another realization and just want to post about a shift in the demographic locally that's been really bugging me. And that's that my game shop has gone from blue-collar to white-collar.

When I was showing up to hobby night 10 years ago, we had a security guard or two, an ex boxer, a mailman, a bike repair guy, the shop-keeps, a commission painter, a short-order cook, a nurse, and a smattering of computer engineers along with a number of local students.

These days when I show up to hobby night it's more computer engineers, data analists, marketing strategists, hardware prototypers and other higher-education types. It's been a heck of a shift. There's been more women, and that's nice (none of whom I've seen play, just paint), but the occupational shift has been stark. Incidentally the old crew was more racially diverse, and the new crew is predominently white and asian.

I mostly chalk that up to local demographics shifting about, but I have seen one or two of them show up on nights when cheaper games are being played, Battletech iirc, which makes me think that the aggressive churn of 40k might also be part of it.

Yes I have seen a massive shift in class of who plays wargames. Used to be lots of blue collar/lower middle class. That former group very scarce now. Not sure why, perhaps we didn't get our kids into it? Other things have died of too, for example the who railway thing, in numbers if not sales. Maybe this was how wargaming stayed alive?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Of all the posts I could respond to, things I could argue (quick, someone on the internet is wrong!), I have eventually realised... It seems some people had the defining traits in 40k as gender and sex. And not the NSFW kind. Just mundane one. I eventually realised in the 36 years I have been playing with toy soldiers, not once was whether the model was male or female an issue. I am really baffled at all these people for whom it apparently is.

Chris, I'm going to make the assumption you're male?
Because if you are, you're represented in 40k, and most all other media to boot. The typical show, movie, whatever-it's designed, if not FOR male audiences, at least with male audiences in mind.

The same is not true for women. It's getting better, that's for sure! But in different steps in different medias. And there's still a way to go.

Women are represented in 40K too, as well as other media. And I argue that there is a hell of a lot more genderless marketing than there is gendered marketing, so we can lose the whole patriarchy talk.

i wanna know what things you're seeing advertised with non-binary people. did 40k stop using space marines as the face of the game when i wasn't looking?

Face of the game and not being there at all are two entirely different things, so stop arguing in bad faith.

Why we're at it with bs strawman arguments:what exactly does a nonbinary Warhammer model look like?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Manfred von Drakken wrote:

 Just Tony wrote:
Women are represented in 40K too, as well as other media. And I argue that there is a hell of a lot more genderless marketing than there is gendered marketing, so we can lose the whole patriarchy talk.

Until there IS no patriarchy, we NEED to keep talking about it.

Absolutely. Tell me how women are subjugated to the point where they can't participate in this hobby or in sales purchases entirely. Go on, I'll wait...



I'm also waiting with baited breath how you can tell me we can fight the patriarchy by painting our little toys. After you tell me how there are no women in seats of power, nor ruling nations, nor running corporations, nor in any sort of position that you claim that they are kept out of.

Just because there aren’t legal barriers doesn’t mean there aren’t barriers.

And a non-binary 40k model could be a Guard soldier. Could be an Eldar, of any stripe. Could be a Chaos model.
The Ad Mech is, generally, far enough removed from concerns that they’d be agender more than non-binary, but you could easily have non-binary Tech Priests or Marshals.

My entire Crimson Fists army is nongendered as far as I'm concerned. And my entire Dark Eldar army is nonbinary. Why? Because there are no physical markers to denote that on the models, and if there was it would be a horrible stereotypical thing as there's not one item that can denote that.

 Just Tony wrote:


The US, and I never said that there wasn't gendered marketing, but that agendered marketing is the predominance as everyone spends money nowadays. I know this may come as a blinding shock to you, but corporations really don't want to kneecap half their sales by making something cater to one demographic specifically. Unless it's a niche item which has to cater to one demographic specifically.

Agendered marketing may be more common in general- but I don't know if I believe that either. Shampoo washes hair, which both men and women have... Yet Pantene is for women, while Axe, Irish Spring and Old Spice are for men. A Mach 5 razor will shave a woman's legs just as easily as a Venus Razor, but for some reason, both exist.

Companies WANT to make his and her products to sell twice as many. Oh, they'll TELL you Secret Deodorant is PH balanced for women, and I think on some level, we all know that... But brother, when's the last time YOU walked out with a stick of Secret? And if you ever did, would you keep it in your locker at the gym?

Now back to 40k. I'll concede- Nids are legit gender neutral, and they were in this year's starter sets... So granted, you can (for once) find gender neutral models in every starter box, along with a bunch of boys. Not a woman to be found though. In fact, can you name a starter box that's included a female model?

Is there a female faction that's going to get at least four dexes, or is it only the exclusively male faction that gets more than one dex?

And BTW: there actually is no such thing as a purely female faction. Sisters have men in the dex (though they are not "Sororitas" proper, they do have the faction keyword) and SoS are part of Talons whether you choose to field them or not.

But Space Marines, both generic and flavour of the month, have zero female models in their dexes.

Tell me again about agendered marketing.