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Between looking through this month's White Dwarf (my first ever, picked it up on a whim) and all the round-about comments from people who have seen the new codex, it's seems pretty clear what options are available for commander suits now.  I'm curious what other Tau players are thinking regarding all the changes (cost adjustments, new wargear and weapons, etc) and how it will affect their commanders' loadouts and tactical use.

Normally I run a shas'el with TL plasma, fusion and multitracker, although I play around with missile pod(s) instead of the fusion blaster at times.  The biggest problem is I often find myself in a situation where the fusion blaster will be key, but a 66% chance to hit often leaves me failing in these critical situations.

I'm wondering if twin-linking will fall by the wayside for commanders in preference of two weapons, a targetting array and a HW multitracker.  Cost-wise it seems virtually the same, and the increase in hit probability for the non-twinlinked system is greater than the hit probability lost when switching from TL BS4 to one shot a BS5.

How about the experimental weapons?  The ion blaster should be better against marines and such than the fusion blaster or missile pods (not factoring range, of course), but the limited strength hurts on versatility.  The airbursting weapon turned out more expensive than I expected, but it has potential.  I play in a fairly low marine area, so such a weapon could be very handy for all those guard, DE, orc and tyranid armies I see.

I'm also trying to decide if bodyguards and/or drones will be useful.  I'm really trying to focus on getting more scoring units in my list, and bodyguards can make this happen (although at the price of IC status).  Shield drones will help alleviate the increased vulnerability, but increase the unit's overall cost.  I'm not sure if it's worth it.  Maybe a bodyguard with TL missiles and a targetting array...fairly cheap and can provide a constant source of decent firepower while my shorter-ranged marine killing HQ bides its time for a good target?

Plasma went up from 16 to 20, I think, so un-twinning it will save you 10 points.

Now you can get fusion guns on Stealth and Piranhas, there is less need to put them on a Commander suit.

I took the ion blaster to be more of an anti-horde weapon than anti-marine myself. Maybe I misread the stats. I didn't look at the airburster (flipping through the Codex in the shop.)

Overall, Fireknife still looks like the best all-round configuration for Crisis including Commanders. It provides the kind of heavy firepower you can't still get in the rest of the list, and lets your Commander work from a bit farther back and keep his IC protection. But we need to see the whole Codex.

Ion Blaster has a 1/6*2/6 +1/6 (8/36) chance of killing a marine per hit. In the hands of a BS5 character, that makes it 40/216 per shot so we might expect a return of around 200/216 marines per game turn. That's a pretty decent result, considering at 12-24 a plasma rifle does only 150/216 and you have the chance of multiple kills with the CIB. The plasma rifle gets range advantage of 6", but apparently the CIB comes in 5 points less.

If it does then a Shas'el with missile pod, CIB, targetting array, hard-wired multitracker looks a steal for 92 points. If it doesn't, then fireknife with array still looks good for the points at 97. 

Bodyguard fireknife is on the money if you take targetting arrays on them (they cost 82, work out at 82.66 using elite fireknife as the baseline).

I guess Shas'Os only direct grand strategy from now on.

A CIB and missile may look nice against marines on paper, but wasn't the whole point of the Torgoch'el to bring the high strength greater range weapons?  The CIB isn't shooting at anything that the missile launcher is shooting at, and at half the range.  If you are playing JSJ, then the extra 6" is huge to keep jump packers and the like out of charge range. 

I would think that if you took a CIB, that you would want a different weapon to back it up, since you'll be wasting missile shots at marines, and wasting CIB shots when your missile shoots at AV targets.  Maybe a CIB + burst cannon would be a nice way to add some anti horde fire power for the cheap, and possible recoup some of the loss of fire power from giving your stealths a fusion blaster. 

I'm still not convinced that the CIB + missile is a better buy then Plasma Missile

Off hand, I see little that will make me change out my Shas'o with fusion, plasma, and MT. The only change I might make is to change out the plasma for a CIB, but I'm not convinced its worth it. S6 lets you have a shot at rear armors and some side armors. S3 of the CIB (since its not true rending) leaves just the fusion blaster to do the work.

I might take Shadowsun because my list has changed a little, but we will have to see how many points I have left.

You're right Kilkrazy...the ion blaster should be a decent anti-horde weapon as well. That's not usually my primary concern when choosing a weapon, though....more like a pleasant side-effect, or something I'll consider after I get anti-marine and anti-armor taken care of.

I'm not sure about fusion-toting stealth suits or piranhas yet. While both do bring fusion to the table, they don't bring it as efficiently as I'd like. I'll need to do some testing with them and hear how others do with them.

While missile pods are handy, I usually take a pair of deathrain elites in my list. Now that everything is cheaper, they can get a targetting array on the third hardpoint (instead of wasting it) and still come in below the previous codex's price. Not a bad deal.

With that ranged support, I usually look to the HQ's for anti-marine/monstrous creature duty, although they often end up getting "destroy the drop-podding dreadnaught" for some reason. I like the looks of the CIB/plasma/targetting array with HW multi tracker from a purely killing marines perspective, and even against hordes it puts out a decent amount of shots, but the lack of that extra killing power against big guys has me concerned. Of course, some of the best tournament armies seem to stick with plasma and missile exclusively, so fusion obviously isn't that critical.

Any thoughts on the airburst weapon? The exclusion from the above discussion already leads me to believe it's not being seriously considered. Sounds like an ordenence weapon with no penalties for moving before firing, bolter str and AP, burst cannon range and it ignores cover saves? Cost of a (new) crisis plasma gun, though. Could kill marines if the squad is big enough, as the large blast can catch quite a few models. Obviously useful against non-MEQs, although the short range will make getting close enough to engage shooty armies rather tough. Sounds like something to play around with, but I have a feeling it will ultimately get left by the wayside.

The Torgoch 'el was designed to run the numbers in the Tau's favour against rush armies: it was good destroying AV11-12. I don't see any point in taking it in 4th edition.

The utility of the CIB will depend on the overall composition. Take 2 crisis suits, and you'll probably want fireknife all the way. Take 5+ and you might want to consider the CIB as a versatility weapon.

Personally I'm looking forward to the frag launcher. I discussed what I thought about it back in the tau vs drop pod marines thread though.

I am liking the new CIB though, and it'll probably have a place on my Shas'o

Why would you want to use a Shas'O when you can apparently add a targetting array to an 'el for 10 points?

Because the extra 15pts gives it +1 wound, ws, attack and ld?

Once you throw in the drugs for the feel no pain (why is no one psycked about this?) that extra wound starts to look pretty good.

Do you realize a 4 HB 2 normal bolter dev squad does less than 1 wound to a feel no pain HQ suit!

It's also nice to have that extra wound and ws if you ever feel like blowing the suit up in CC
though I don't think this is something you want to do on purpose too much.

I'm usually only worried about instant death for my suit, where feel no pain doesn't help. Very rarely is it the hail of bolters that hurts him, it's the deepstriking meltaguns or something catching him in melee with a power-whatever.

Anyone who gets their Crisis Suit shot by heavy bolter dev squads deserves everything they get.

Period.

End of story.

I went with a Shas'o for the extra wound and extra WS. As I ran mine pretty much as a loner sometimes the IC protection failed me as there were not other units around. At that point the extra wound is handy as you know your going to take some incoming mobile small arms fire or get assaulted by some fast moving unit. The enemy could not really afford to just ignore him as the BS 5 ment killing a lot of models if he was allowed to run around unchecked.

In the new codex, I'll have to see what can be done. But a Targeting array Shas'el might work well. Its going to be a long two weeks to have to wait for my own copy of the Codex.

Posted By torgoch on 02/25/2006 7:24 PM
Anyone who gets their Crisis Suit shot by heavy bolter dev squads deserves everything they get.

Period.

End of story.

I agree. HB's target Kroot, Fire Warriors, Vespid, etc.

Krak Missiles and Lascannons target suits.

You shouldn't design a list with the idea that your opponent will try to lose.

That said, it may still be worthwhile. I've have to see the actual wording.

Anyone who gets their Crisis Suit shot by heavy bolter dev squads deserves everything they get.

Period.

End of story.

Sigged.

shas'o might be good for the Command and Conquer (sorry control) node, radius of 18" around him lets your squads use his LD10 for targetting priority tests

i think its about 10 pts, and the upgrade is 15 pts from bs5 'el to bs5 'o
if your broadsides shoot the wrong target maybe once a game, is that worth 25 pts?

CIB i dont like too much, its str3

vectors give hit and run. you can use this on a aggro suit to bosh forwards, i'd think a shas'os stat increases would be important here (and stim injectors, and shield gen. but vectors and shields are both hard point options, so you cant have both as well as ur 2 weapons)

If I can draw an enemy dev squads fire with a feel no pain shas'o (about 25pts per wound) to save an entire FW squad from dying then I'm inclined to do it.

He might lose 1 wound sure....I'll live with that.

Hit and run! I like that aswell, if you can safely assualt a isolated tac/dev squad or atleast in a situation where you will not recieve many counter attacks, as long as said squads have no power weapons that t4 3+ 4+ (feel no pain) will easily survive, he can then run in the enemies assualt phase to be ready to shoot again, maybe not the most "tau" thing to do but as a nid player this is how I see things :=)

yea, he can shoot then charge a dev squad, sit in combat for 2 phases, jump out at the end of their turn, and has denied them shootingfor a turn.
plus then he can shoot and charge them again (lol) if you want, (and any of your other units can also shoot them if you want) or he can shoot and charge something else.

vectors and stim injectors i think will be a nice pair.

I have visions of Shas'Os wandering across the battlefield screaming "look at me mum, I'm invulnerable to their puny side arms". And then a lascannon smashing them into pieces...

That said, if you can make Shovah and his 7 bodyguards all hit and run, I might give it a try on them.

negative, its 0-1 special issue
plus that unit would then be ~700+ points

I thought that the Command and Control Node was only a 12" range? 18" makes a world of difference if that's the case.

I thought that Targetting Arrays on suits cost the same as a Fire Warrior... isn't that a bit pricey to throw those onto all your suits (or mostly those that are twin-linked only)?

Shovah and 7 crisis suits might be 700 points, but what is that 14 Missile Pod Shots, 7/14 Plasma Rifle Shots, and 7 possible Makerlights, plus whatever other things they changed on Shovah. . .

I wonder if they added any Special Characters like Tigurius who can adjust their weaponry after deployment, that would just be awesome!!! I think that would be a mandatory unit for any tourney list,

hmmm. . . Ok so whats in your army, all terminators ok so I will have TL Plasma Rifles, oh and your playing orcs, Burst Cannons and Air Burst baby, oh Ravenwing missile pods,

grimteef: No, it's only 12", Shadowsun's drones make her's 18." Targeting arrays are the same cost as a fire warrior, and IIRC they take up a hardpoint.


Citadel: That's a negative, the special characters are:

Ethereal who's hard to kill, and gives tau units stubborn (and furious charge and preferred enemy if he dies).

O'shovah (limited units, but can take a huge retinue of crisis suits, everybody gets preferred enemy orks and bonding for free).

Shadowsun (stealthed, twin fusion blasters, and 18" Ld bubble).

correction: The ethereal only gives furious charge and preferred enemy when he dies if those units pass the morale check.

The targetting array is a bit pricey, but it's a very beneficial one. One of the big problems with twin-linked suits (deathrain, for example) was you wasted 5 points on a hardpoint item you really didn't use. With lower suit base costs and lower suit weapon costs (except plasma, maybe fusion?), you can make something like a TL missle + targetting array for cheaper than last codex's TL missile + target lock, and it's obviously going to be much more effective.

Grimaldi: thanks. I wasn't sure if there was much of a points savings there, but knowing that the suits are cheaper AND hit far better than before is certainly something to consider.

Is the Targetting Array, the name they use for the mounted crisis suits marker light, or is it like the vehicles Targetting array? (raises its bs to 4) Either way sounds like a great buy and much better than a target lock, I like to use 2 HQ Crisis suits, and alot of stealth. . .

So far I have been proxing my Fire Warriors and using my solo crisis suit, and usually do ok in 250 point games (6/1 so far), I am not sure what I plan on using with the new codex yet. . . But Shadow Sun has my attention, as does a Rail head with BC's. . .

Current List: 248
Shas El Fire Knife with Multi-Tracker, HW Black Sun Filter

1 Devil Fish with 8 Fire Warriors

I know what my Shas'o is going to look like:
Cyclic Ion Blaster
Plasma Rifle
Multitracker
HW Sim injector
HW Vectored Retro-Thrusters

130pts

Pretty much the most powerful Meq/MC killer you can make, has feel no pain so can assualt most anything without a power weapon due to his 3+/4++(FnP)

Has hit and run so can fire, assualt, run in enemy assualt phase to shoot and assualt again your next turn!

Still instakilled by a single S8+ weapon so both irridium plating for 2+ save and the shield gen for the 4++ might be an idea but 130pts is expensive enough.

The other HQ suit can then take the 2+ if I so wish.

Unfortunatly, there are a lot of hidden powerfists out there. Pick your targets carefully, but it does look like a good loadout for the points.

whats the stats on the Cyclic Ion Blaster? Is it better than a Missile Pod, or did you just take it for more anti-marine punch?