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Recently the local league has started up. We start at 1000 points and increase by 250 every 3 weeks, with the final installment going up by 350 to reach 1850.

Last year I ran my Tyranid "horde" list, with lots of bodies, and a mixture of MCs. This year I wanted to continue with tyranids, so I went with a genestealer theme.

However, as my signature shows, I'm not doing too well thus far. And it is starting to get to me. Normally I don't care about losing.. I try to play to have fun... but with this army, I'm not just losing... I'm getting reamed. Now, I'm wondering... is it simply one of the disadvantages of my army? Is it because my opponents are more competetive, and/or are able to take advantage of my weaknesses? Or am I just a sucky player? Obviously, it is hard for any of you to judge that last one, since only two people here have played me (Dawnsight, Foda_Bett)

Armies that have pwned me without remorse:
Iyanden Eldar, with two falcons, a wraithlord, squad of wraithguard, rangers, and a farseer. (Bitter about this defeat, because the kid who plays them is arrogant and annoying) - in this game I killed ~6 rangers, and the wraithlord. He killed everything in my army, except the gunfex.
Mech Tau - I killed a squad of firewarriors, and a hammer head. he killed everything except the gunfex (iirc)
Las/plas Mauleens - I killed a handfull of marines. he killed every single model in my army.
Warrior/Destroyer heavy Necrons - I killed a handful of necrons (I actually killed nearly an entire squad of 10, but 8 got back up). He killed everything in my army.


Armies that I have come close to beating:
Wych Cult (I lost by 40 pts, and probably would have won, if i hadn't let him re-roll one of his unlucky reserve rolls)
LATD with slaanesh theme (draw, but only by technicality... mission was alpha recon, and he didn't have any models in my DZ... I had the broodlord alive)

Armies that I have beaten, and haven't had a ton of problems with:
"mixed" marine armies (ie: ineffective combinations)
Space Wolves
Godzilla
Ulthwe Eldar (beat the list several times... but the last game was meat grinder, with eldar attacking... respawning guardians with starcannons spelled death for my stealer broods that were now in his DZ)

My 1000pt list consists of:
Broodlord with +1 St, +1 Sv, IA, Hooks, + 6x retinue with carapace and hooks
4x broods of 6x genestealers with carapace
1x brood of 7x genestealers with carapace
1x gunfex

When I win, it is sometimes a landslide, and I have lots left on the board. However, more often than not, I win by the skin of my teeth, and my victories feel hollow... like I am winning by technicality.

I am kind of disturbed, because I have become the thing I used to hate.. a person who cares about winning. I still enjoy most games, even when I lose... but I don't like getting splattered across the board, after having only killed ~200pts worth of fodder.

As can be seen, most of the armies I have a hard time dealing with are highly shooty, so that seems like a no brainer. our gaming group likes terrain... we do 35% terrain coverage often, so one would think that would benefit my style of army... but for the likes of Eldar with two falcons, it is a haven for CTM, making their already nigh-indestructable falcons more-so...

So, I come to you, dakkaites.... Is it simply because I have chosen an army that is almost entirely melee oriented, that I am losing more than I am used to? Is it my opponents armies, that are either tweaked out, or are able to take advantage of my lack of shooting? last year, I was used to my bugs getting shot to hell... but back then, I had enough bodies that it didn't really matter... but now... with so few models, and each one costing a bunch, it is starting to hurt more.

I'd like to hear some input from other players... especially anyone with genestealer experience

Thanks in advance,

~Gabe

Gabe speaking honestly its probably the big melee orientation thats killing you. To hit a falcon or the mech tau you need two 6's pretty rare for a minor chance to take down either set of vehicles. As for the marines, make sure he has terrain in the center and not just in the DZ's for cover. I hardly think of our group as ultra competitive and with the exception of the wierd IW guy i played at the tourney they're all pretty balanced list wise. The only tactically superior guys i would give it up to woudl be our Mech tau guy, and maybe our las/plas guy. and the mech tau guy will usually help you fidn ways to beat him.
I think you've just handicapped yourself more then you thought this league like i did with my TK's and itll just take a while to figurwe out what works. What does the gunfex have on it if i may ask?

Yeah, terrain plays a large factor... most of my opponents let me setup the terrain, and I think I am too generous with fire lanes and such... more terrain in the center would probably help. The gunfex just has Enhanced Senses (+1 BS), venom cannon, and barbed strangler. For awhile I was tempted to give him crushing claws instead of a barbed strangler, but yakface talked me out of it.

Something else I was thinking... what will happen when the points go up? Will getting more stealers per brood help them survive longer? Despite all of their killer stats, one or two genestealers just won't do all that much.

More gunfexes sounds like a plan to me.

btw, not putting fleshhooks on your stealers is asking for a whupping, once people figure out all they have to do is sit their marines in cover to beat you.

I think its definitely you Gabe. . . j/k man.


Its the army you've chosen. Its a gimmick list with not a very powerful gimmick. Most armies that are so biased towards combat have some sort of neato trick that allows them to succeed. Sure Genestealers have fleet, but is that really enough considering how fragile they are? I don't really think so. And what can the Broodlord really accomplish? Any decent general will just move away from that unit and shoot it if it ever pops its head out from the cover it set up behind.

Simply put, you *should* be losing any game against multiple skimmers, any army that has a bunch of vehicles, or Necrons with a bunch of Destroyers. Yeah, your Rending claws can tear through armor, but a good player will simply use his speed advantage to deny you the chance, all while obliterating your army.

I'm really starting to believe that if you want to play the all stealer list, you should heavily (if not completely) go with scuttling stealers. Sure, you'll have even less bodies, but basically you're assuming that you'll lose more bodies to that extra round of shooting (that you'd be taking by not getting the Scuttlers move), then you will by paying the points for Scuttlers. Whether or not that actually works. . .I dunno. I haven't tried the all stealer army before.


But let's talk about some tactics: If you're going to play a gimmick like this, you need to be ruthless. If you have the option to set up terrain you need to cut off those firelanes as much as possible. If you were playing MEQs or some army that can compensate for strange terrain placement you could afford not to really care about it. But you aren't and you can't.

Also, when you do get into combat, are you using your Fleet movement to set up charges that will reduce your kill zone? If not you should really practice so you can figure out exactly what a 6" charge zone looks like so you after you finish your charge moves you will only be in base contact with 1-2 models max (Assuming we're talking about MEQs here). You really want to set it up so you do enough damage to clear out the Kill zone, but leave enough models in the unit that:

A) they won't run away.
B) you'll be able to wipe them out/make them run in the NEXT round of combat (on their turn).

Unless of course you can set up a charge so that you'll be within consolidation range to engage another unit. In that case, of course, you want to get base to base with as many models as possible.


How have you found your Broodlord to be? I've used him in lists where you have fast stuff like a Flying Tyrant or Hormaguants and that can work because your opponent has a bunch of units to worry about on Turn 2. But in your list, I can't imagine that the Broodlord actually kills anything.

BTW, the Broodlord on his own cannot score as he is an IC (you mentioned he did in that game against LatD).

Yakface, just the person I wanted to hear from Your advice on the matters of tyranids is always sage.

It is good to know that it isn't me that is the problem. Perhaps this weekend I will try the scuttler army again, and see if I have better luck with it.

As far as the tactics go... I do plan on being alittle more ruthless... I have noticed that the few times I have been generous to my opponents (ie: letting them re-roll that really unlucky roll, etc), the favor is never returned. Likewise with terrain.

I do indeed use fleet to better setup charges, but I am still getting the hang of it.

The broodlord either does incredibly well, or does nothing atall. I am probably going to drop implant attack, but want to keep toxin sacs, to better deal with MEQ tarpits, and to insta-kill swarms, which he commonly gets charged by. Most commonly, I hide him alot, until I have multiple combats going on, and then I move him into the primo spot. As for the LATD game.. I know he isn't scoring, but he was alive at the end of turn 6 in an alpha recon... my opponent had nothing in my DZ, and I had nothing in his DZ, but still had a model alive, thus a draw.

One of these days I'm gonna bring a camera with me when I game, so I can put up a battle report... I think with that, I could get even better suggestions on how to better play my lists.

thanks for the comments so far, everyone!

Yakface has summed it up perfectly. I agree with him completely. This is a hard army to win with.

If it were me I?d probably have resorted to buying a horde of cheap Leaping Gaunts to tie up the enemy shooters, and replacing the Broodlord with a flying Tyrant to keep them in synapse (and just because he?s faster than the Broodlord).

Well, after some tweaking in excel, here's a scuttling 1000pt list that I think I will try out tomorrow...

Broodlord (+1 St, +1 Sv, IA, hooks), 5x retinue (hooks and carapace)

4x 7x genestealer broods, carapace, scuttlers

gunfex, as before.

So, I lose 4 stealers, and have one less scoring unit... I guess we'll see how it works..

May you always win the first turn roll, get good fleet of foot rolls on the first turn, surprise some opponents and get the magical first turn charge.