Mythic Games now asking for significant contributions from backers for unfinished KS

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**OrlandotheTechnicoloured**

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1162110258/6-siege-the-board-game/posts/3796785

As folk may know Mythic Games were struggling to delivery their outstanding kickstarters due to covid related cost increases, especially shipping, so they asked backers of Darkest Dungeon for extra money for shipping, apparently over 80% paid and have had their wave 1 delivered

so not ideal but not totally unexpected given the financial situation

Mythic also sold off a number of their existing IPs to CMON and Monolith (not sure if there were any others) and frustrating for me that meant the replacement Solomon Kane mini i was waiting for ended up at Miniature Market along with all other unsold Solomon Kane stock

they also began a sale of their remaining stock of other games where they'd kept the IP (40% off, now 50% off) via their own online shop

Now backers of the 6: Siege The Boardgame have been asked for extra money not only for shipping, but actually for production of the game as well

Fresh Recruit (Core Pledge): $39 ($69 original KS cost)

Trooper (Gameplay All-in): $99 ($199 original KS cost)

Smooth Operator (Premium all-in): $129 ($269 original KS cost)

they say that if enough sign up production will begin with the money being ringfenced for that alone, if not money will be refunded (- bank fees)

While i really hope things work out,

i fear is will be a huge risk to hand over and extra 50% of the cost of a pledge (and that doesn't include shipping which for a smooth operator pledge + some extras to the USA is $78, the only data point i have for the shipping)

as mythic aren't only having to ship and already produced product, but keep themselves afloat for all the time needed to get the game manufactured and shipped over to the warehouses in Europe, USA (and Asia if that isn't going direct to backers)

**rybackstun**

Well this doesn't bode well for the Monsterpocalypse campaign.

I had already figured that my money was lost since they haven't been responding to refund requests for a while now, but I didn't expect to be asked MORE for items that we've already paid for. And to think I almost went in on 6:Siege as well.

Someone needs to swoop in and buyout the company and get these back on track.

**lord_blackfang**

Ooof my condolences to all backers. So glad I skipped MonPoc 2.5.

**legionaires**

lord_blackfang wrote:
Ooof my condolences to all backers. So glad I skipped MonPoc 2.5.

Same here. I thought it was Mythic and their fans that crapped all over the Flying Frog's Shadows of Brimstone Forbidden Fortress KS, hence why I refused to back MonPoc. Looks like my previous distaste served me well.

**Monkeysloth**

I have 2 games with them:

Hel: The Last Saga and Anastyr. I'd be really surprised if I get both before they go under. I think Hel is supposed to be after Sige 6 so we'll see how this all shakes out.

I've also been wondering how much they overspent trying to get Solomon Kane out? I bought the expansions at MM cheaper then the Kickstarter and I don't think I've ever seen so much paper in a boardgame box before and that couldn't have been cheap to rewrite constantly and then print even more then planned.

**Das_Ubermike**

I was one of the backers who refused to pony up the extra shipping costs that they tried to saddle us with for the Darkest Dungeon kickstarter, and they never sent my product. This is my way of giving condolences to anyone who was foolish enough to back another Mythic product after the DD ransom notice, or who didn't immediately try to get a refund if they had backed something prior to the DD ransom notice.

And say what you will about their financial situation, but them crying poor on the DD shipping and then selling their own stock of DD games at 50% off was an incredibly scummy thing to do in my opinion.

**cole1114**

Das_Ubermike wrote:
I was one of the backers who refused to pony up the extra shipping costs that they tried to saddle us with for the Darkest Dungeon kickstarter, and they never sent my product. This is my way of giving condolences to anyone who was foolish enough to back another Mythic product after the DD ransom notice, or who didn't immediately try to get a refund if they had backed something prior to the DD ransom notice.

And say what you will about their financial situation, but them crying poor on the DD shipping and then selling their own stock of DD games at 50% off was an incredibly scummy thing to do in my opinion.

Did you at least eventually get a refund?

**Das_Ubermike**

cole1114 wrote:
Das_Ubermike wrote:
I was one of the backers who refused to pony up the extra shipping costs that they tried to saddle us with for the Darkest Dungeon kickstarter, and they never sent my product. This is my way of giving condolences to anyone who was foolish enough to back another Mythic product after the DD ransom notice, or who didn't immediately try to get a refund if they had backed something prior to the DD ransom notice.

And say what you will about their financial situation, but them crying poor on the DD shipping and then selling their own stock of DD games at 50% off was an incredibly scummy thing to do in my opinion.

Did you at least eventually get a refund?

Nope. I was told that I'd "eventually" get my order, but I have my doubts since they're once again turning out their pockets and asking for support. Who knows how long they'll be around, and if they're sold to someone else I don't think I have any guarantee that they'd send me my pledge.

**LordofHats**

I knew it would happen.

And no. From what I can tell, promises of refunds are hollow. It's pretty obvious that Mythic overextended itself, uses one game to fund the last and COVID broke the ponzi scheme.

They had to ransom half of DD, and now they're saying in emails they'll ask for further 'contributions next year' for the second half.

I kind of doubt increasingly that will ever happen. Writing is kind of on the wall that Mythic doesn't have the money to fulfill Kickstarter pledges that are as much as 5 years old. I also don't believe their excuses to be honest. Shipping costs have reportedly come down in the past year, not up. The claim that this is all about shipping seems like a lie to hide that Mythic was not responsible with its finances.

**GrosseSax**

LordofHats wrote:
The claim that this is all about shipping seems like a lie to hide that Mythic was not responsible with its finances.

Anybody remotely involved in logistics can confirm that the freight market has absolutely cratered in the last year. Those blaming domestic shipping costs are straight up lying.

**Sacredroach**

GrosseSax wrote:
LordofHats wrote:
The claim that this is all about shipping seems like a lie to hide that Mythic was not responsible with its finances.

Anybody remotely involved in logistics can confirm that the freight market has absolutely cratered in the last year. Those blaming domestic shipping costs are straight up lying.

I deal with a ton of shipping in my industry (Boats and boat parts) and yes, container shipping has cratered. Back in May of last year, containers were $10-12K per 40', and now they are around $1800 per 40'. BUT there are several problems...some companies "locked" in those rates last year in case they went up, and have those sunk costs attached to their cargo. Even if they choose another shipping company, they may have to pay some or all of the cost of the early booking. Another hurdle is domestic shipping. I cannot speak to Europe or Asia, but in the US the domestic freight charges have only gone up. A year ago I could easily ship a LTL pallet (40" x 48") with insurance for $200-$250...now I am paying between $400-$500. Small shipments (UPS and FedEx) have also kept going up...and show no signs of stopping.

Are those prices Mythic is quoting correct? Probably not, but it all depends on how bad at negotiating rates they are/were.

**LordofHats**

Sacredroach wrote:

Are those prices Mythic is quoting correct? Probably not, but it all depends on how bad at negotiating rates they are/were.

This was proposed around the time last year this came up that it looked like Mythic had never locked in a contract to ship some of its game and basically left the deals until last minutes so that is feasibly true.

I'd argue though that still represents significant mismanagement. They closed the pledge manager in February 2022 after production had started. They should have had a plan for shipping well before then. The problem seems persistent throughout their projects, coupled with already selling some of them on their store despite backers not having gotten theirs yet (they claim those are preorders, but I don't really believe that they'll leave product backers don't want to pay excessive shipping for just sitting in a storehouse forever).

This is coupled with a lot of couched language on their part that is either really bad PR or very very careful legalese.

**Monkeysloth**

When everything was hitting the wall with the shipping inrcreases Fredrick, who owns Monolith, said it only increased his cost about $3 per base game shipped and that he didn't see any reason to increase prices as Monolith could afford the loss.

I got my Conan Pledge for that 2nd kickstarter at no additional cost (though it was delayed because of all the shipping issues).

Edit: updated the price once I found the original message.

Well... I've been receiving a flood of PMs from Monolith pledgers worried about the consequences of the transport crisis on their pending pledges. So I will answer very factually to everyone at the same time. And to be totally factual I am attaching here the official quote from my carrier.

For 9 months now, the price of containers has only gone down. Last October we were paying $21,000 for a 40 foot container (67 m3); in March we were paying $16,000; in June $12,000. Now the price is around $11,000. But let's say it's 12 000$ since it's the official document I have at hand.

So, to bring a 40 feet container from the factory to the European port costs us 12 000$. Then, to clear this container and have it shipped by truck to the hub (Meeple logistics) costs us $1,900 more (€/$ parity = 1). So, the trip from the factory to the hub costs $13,900 (more like 13k actually). In 2019, for this same trip we were charged $4,900, a difference of $9,000.

In this 40 foot container, we put 3100 Boxes the size of the big Claustrophobia box. So, for the trip from the factory to the hub, that represents, for a box the size of Monolith's Claustrophobia, an extra ... 2,90€ !!!

So, Monolith pledgers can be reassured, we will not ask you for any extra money, and we will just take it from our margin.
Fred Henry

**zend**

They’re scum. I preordered the reprint of Solomon Kane a year ago, and they keep insisting existing orders are Monolith’s problem, yet Monolith outright stated they weren’t going to honor Mythic’s orders when they obtained the rights.

**Ahtman**

Whenever I see Mythic I always think of Dark Age of Camelot.

**Eumerin**

What's extra frustrating about this is that MonPoc - what I've pledged for - isn't even their property. It's a property by another company, and Mythic is making figures for it.

Or maybe not making, with the way things are going. I bet Privateer's wishing they'd never signed off on this project.

**legionaires**

Eumerin wrote:
What's extra frustrating about this is that MonPoc - what I've pledged for - isn't even their property. It's a property by another company, and Mythic is making figures for it.

Or maybe not making, with the way things are going. I bet Privateer's wishing they'd never signed off on this project.

Yeah, Matt Wilson has had a ton of bad breaks. I think the first being the company in China that stole their plastic molds.

**Theophony**

legionaires wrote:
Eumerin wrote:
What's extra frustrating about this is that MonPoc - what I've pledged for - isn't even their property. It's a property by another company, and Mythic is making figures for it.

Or maybe not making, with the way things are going. I bet Privateer's wishing they'd never signed off on this project.

Yeah, Matt Wilson has had a ton of bad breaks. I think the first being the company in China that stole their plastic molds.

There are bad breaks and streaks of bad breaks, and then there are people who make poor decisions with their companies. Double check who you are going to work with on your products.

**GrosseSax**

Spoiler:

It sounds like things are a little bit more chaotic in US domestic shipping than I was aware! Thanks for the explanation.

Ahtman wrote:Whenever I see Mythic I always think of Dark Age of Camelot.

Me too. Thats what initially drove me to click on this thread. Speaking of problematic Kickstarter campaigns that don't offer refunds......

**Sarouan**

This is exactly why I don't back kickstarters with physical rewards anymore. My sympathies for everyone who got tricked on that.

**OrlandotheTechnicoloured**

Looks like both Anastry and Hel: the last saga have been passed on to (or sold to) another publisher

Dear Companions,
You've been waiting a long time for news about Anastyr and we want to apologize and thank you for your patience. In the meantime, as some of you may know, we've been focusing on the delivery of the 6: Siege and Darkest Dungeon projects, which has necessitated a difficult request to our backers to contribute to the extra costs. Our team, reduced since our reorganization, has been monopolized on this task, but we have continued to seek solutions for the delivery of Anastyr.

Today, we have to admit that this game, as it was conceived from the beginning, is excessively difficult, if not impossible, to complete with our current means, despite the enormous resources already committed, whether in terms of time, team, or budget. Unless, of course, we were to ask our backers for a financial contribution. A contribution for this game would far exceed what we’ve been asking for other projects, knowing that backers would also have to wait a long time to receive it. This did not seem like an acceptable solution to us.

But all is not doom and gloom. During this period of study and reflection, we found another publisher who was really excited about this IP.

This other publisher, who will make their own announcement, will take over the IP and develop it using their own proven methods. The exact announcement will be made very soon, and we know that our backers will have the opportunity to receive a copy of the new Anastyr base game to be produced. Given the quality of the games produced by this publisher, their experience and high standards, we are not only reassured, but certain that this new version of Anastyr will live up to your expectations.

We'll post another update with more important details soon.

the Hel announcement text is the same except the game name (wonder if the publisher is Steamforged, CMON or somebody new, i'g guessing both are headed to the same place given the announcements have been made at the same time)

Edit: sooner than expected confirmation it's CMON

A MESSAGE FROM CMON, WITH PERMISSION OF MYTHIC GAMES
Dear valued members of our gaming community,
We hope this message finds you in good health and high spirits. We wanted to share some important news with you. CMON, the publisher behind popular games like Zombicide, Massive Darkness 2, Death May Die, Blood Rage, and many others, has recently acquired the intellectual properties of both HEL and Anastyr from Mythic Games.
We understand that this news may bring mixed emotions, and we want to be upfront with you about the developments.
The Challenging News
Regrettably, as Mythic Games announced, they will no longer be able to deliver their Kickstarter campaigns for HEL: The Last Saga and Anastyr. As you are a backer of these campaigns, we understand that this is disappointing.
Upon careful evaluation of both titles, we have concluded that neither HEL: The Last Saga nor Anastyr are currently ready for publication in their current state and will require substantial effort to complete them.
We want to assure you that we are committed to delivering quality gaming experiences, and we appreciate your understanding and support during our development.

The Good News
Under our purview, both games will go through an extensive development and play-testing process at CMON, and these new versions will be offered to the public in future. We have big plans for both of these worlds, including offering you, the original Mythic Backers who paid for the lowest pledge level and up, a free English or French copy of each re-developed base game, if you wish to receive it.
What this means for you
When the campaigns of HEL and Anastyr launched, we, like many of you, were excited by the promise of what each of those worlds had to offer. You, the Mythic Backers, took a chance on what those games could be, and we’d like to acknowledge your efforts by offering you a free copy of the new CMON versions for each title that you backed with Mythic. If you are a paid Mythic Backer of HEL at the Berserk pledge or higher, you have the option of getting a free copy of CMON’s HEL. If you are a paid Mythic Backer of Anastyr at the Companion Level or higher, you have the option of getting a free copy of CMON’s Anastyr. This offer is for the base games only and not possible future expansions. If you’re interested in this offer, you will be responsible for third party charges such as shipping and VAT.
It’s important to state that these games will not be the same Mythic games you initially backed. As mentioned above, after a deep dive into the available materials, we determined that both games needed significant work and development. As a result, both games will be new products, different from what was offered during the Mythic campaigns.
Mythic Games will send notifications to the appropriate Mythic Backers asking you for permission to share your backer information with us at CMON. If you approve, we will create your order in our system indicating you are part of the new HEL or Anastyr project and are entitled to one copy of the game(s) we will produce. Once your order is created, you’ll be kept informed of developments on those projects. Please note, this offer is not a settlement taken on behalf of Mythic Games – it is simply a gift from CMON.

Thank you,
The CMON team

**Aeneades**

I suspect “opportunity to receive a copy of the new base game” will still involve a significant investment from the backer and won’t be receiving any addons they paid for or stretch goals.

**Kalamadea**

I am very, VERY glad that I got so soured by the Joan of Arc 1.5 KS that I refused to ever deal with Mythic again. Looking over their current kickstarters there's a LOT of games that either may not ship. Best case is the money from selling the Hel and Anastyr projects is being used to finalise and ship Siege 6, MonPoc and Darkest Dungeon wave 2

**Eumerin**

On the one hand, backers are likely losing much or possibly all of their investment. On the other hand, at least there's an update, and the possibility of getting something (though it's still not clear what). There's progress of a sort.

As a MonPoc backer, I'm still both anticipating and dreading the eventual update on my investment

**Bioptic**

So yes, my reading of this is: "Mythic have taken your money, and you have no means to reclaim it other than legal action".

The sale seems to just have been for the assets and IP, which CMON has chosen to do something different with. None of the money gained through the Kickstarter seems to have been used for meaningful development - all the assets we have seen were generated in advance of the Kickstarter finishing. The money has presumably therefore been siphoned out by Mythic for other projects.

The CMON "gift" is carefully phrased as having nothing to do with any previous transactions or obligations, and can be of any size, or value they determine for the starter set. CMON do tend to make fairly substantial base games, but I would be surprised if it included everything from the original core pledge.

CMON comms have at least been very clear, which is a welcome difference to years of silence and *no* delivery. But the entire thing does have me very wary of trusting even "established" KS-only publishers going forward. I think only CMON, Mantic and Archon remain in the "completely trusted" category.

**ced1106**

Aeneades wrote:
I suspect “opportunity to receive a copy of the new base game” will still involve a significant investment from the backer and won’t be receiving any addons they paid for or stretch goals.

That's what I read. Also, you'll have to pay for shipping and VAT.

EU has better consumer protection than USA, but dunno if the cc window has expired or what you can do at this point for a refund.

What else... Battle Systems and Loke Battle Mats I'd add to the whitelist. Both have steady retail sales ("Evergreen products") to support KS losses, and Loke can reduce their risk with their digital campaigns. Archon lost 100K because of the Red Sea shipping attacks. I'm guessing the Covid and Red Sea shipping crises have reduced the number of KS offerings compared to previous years? I'm not backing as many KS as I used to. Amazon gets my money during the holidays, and MM during the rest of the year. Ironically, I picked up Darkest Dungeon from MM during a recent sale.

I'm going to guess that, since MonPoc's IP is from another company, Privateer Press, it's going to take longer, if at all, for any news from another publisher. At least my Myth miniatures are being sent.

**Sacredroach**

Bioptic wrote:
I think only CMON, Mantic and Archon remain in the "completely trusted" category.

Funny, my big three "completely trusted" are CMON, Zenit Miniatures and Monolith. But as in all things, times and experiences may vary.

I've emailed Mythic to see if I can just use the excess funds I gave them for Anastyr for stuff they actually have in stock. I'm willing to grant them $200 in credit for the eventual base game, but I'd like some kind of recompense for the Caravan Pledge plus lots of extras...

**chaos0xomega**

Its a real shame that Monpoc ended up in their hands. A friend gave me a couple demo games in late 2022, and I absolutely loved the gameplay. It didn't work for me as a wargaming product line, but it made a lot of sense as a boxed game experience, and I actually intended to go all-in on a late pledge, but then I saw the absolute shitshow that the kickstarter was and opted to stay away.

Maybe with any luck, PP and Mythic figure out a deal to transfer the license to someone who can do it actual justice.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Sacredroach wrote:
Bioptic wrote:
I think only CMON, Mantic and Archon remain in the "completely trusted" category.

Funny, my big three "completely trusted" are CMON, Zenit Miniatures and Monolith. But as in all things, times and experiences may vary.

I've emailed Mythic to see if I can just use the excess funds I gave them for Anastyr for stuff they actually have in stock. I'm willing to grant them $200 in credit for the eventual base game, but I'd like some kind of recompense for the Caravan Pledge plus lots of extras...

I find the inclusion of Archon on that list absolutely hilarious, given that they are basically Prodos Games with the serial numbers filed off.

**Santtu**

I backed Monsterpocalypse like a chump, but at least losing ~300€ and not caring too much makes me feel like a big adult.

**Kalamadea**

chaos0xomega wrote:

I find the inclusion of Archon on that list absolutely hilarious, given that they are basically Prodos Games with the serial numbers filed off.

It's very strange, Prodos was a crapshow and I avoided any and all of the Archon kickstarters for a long time, but everything from Archon has been on time and better than expected from all accounts. I've only done D&L 3 but got a giant box of well made plastic on-time. All of their styrene kits made for other companies have been excellent, including the Mantic kits I've gotten and a few Starfinder RPG minis. I don't know if they got rid of the bad employees in the changeover or if they took the change in name as a new chance to do things right, but so far everything I've seen and gotten from Archon puts them pretty high on my list.