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Core Rules for Fights First says:
"Units with this ability that are eligible to fight do so in the Fights First step, provided every model in the unit has this ability. "

And the charge rule on p29 says:
"Each time a unit makes a Charge move, until the end of the turn, that unit has the Fights First ability (pg 32)."

Same for the ur-ghoul in Drukhari's Court of the Archon, and many other rules that gives Fight First.
"Ur-ghul: While this unit contains one or more Ur-ghul models, this unit has the Fights First ability. "

But some rules that gives fight first explicitly gives it to models.
"Combat Drugs: If this model is Empowered in the Fight phase, then until the end of the phase, models in this model’s unit, have the Fights First ability. "

Does this imply that Fights First automatically applies to all models in a unit? Or does it make the ur-ghoul and charge type of wording RAW worthless? Is it just a typo that will get erratad?


And a follow up: Is it possible to make an attached unit where only one of the included units have Fights First on their data card? I can't think of any examples where that is possible, all characters with fights first that are leaders either gives fights first to their bodyguard unit (Lelith Hesperax) or can only join units that already has it (jain zar). And vice versa for bodyguard units.

If it is possible to make an attached unit like that, is the Fights First ability carried over to the attached unit, but not to the models? (The way keywords works.) Are they not carried over at all? Are they applied to all models?

How else can there be a unit with only some models that has Fights First?

Thank you for your insights and theories :-)

Mellon wrote:
Core Rules for Fights First says:
"Units with this ability that are eligible to fight do so in the Fights First step, provided every model in the unit has this ability. "

And the charge rule on p29 says:
"Each time a unit makes a Charge move, until the end of the turn, that unit has the Fights First ability (pg 32)."

Same for the ur-ghoul in Drukhari's Court of the Archon, and many other rules that gives Fight First.
"Ur-ghul: While this unit contains one or more Ur-ghul models, this unit has the Fights First ability. "

But some rules that gives fight first explicitly gives it to models.
"Combat Drugs: If this model is Empowered in the Fight phase, then until the end of the phase, models in this model’s unit, have the Fights First ability. "

Does this imply that Fights First automatically applies to all models in a unit? Or does it make the ur-ghoul and charge type of wording RAW worthless? Is it just a typo that will get erratad?

This is not implied. It is what the rule explicitly states. Each rule references the unit gaining Fight First. That means every model in the unit.

And a follow up: Is it possible to make an attached unit where only one of the included units have Fights First on their data card? I can't think of any examples where that is possible, all characters with fights first that are leaders either gives fights first to their bodyguard unit (Lelith Hesperax) or can only join units that already has it (jain zar). And vice versa for bodyguard units.

If it is possible to make an attached unit like that, is the Fights First ability carried over to the attached unit, but not to the models? (The way keywords works.) Are they not carried over at all? Are they applied to all models?

How else can there be a unit with only some models that has Fights First?

Thank you for your insights and theories :-)

If GW did their job correctly, this will never happen.

 alextroy wrote:

Mellon wrote:
Core Rules for Fights First says:
"Units with this ability that are eligible to fight do so in the Fights First step, provided every model in the unit has this ability. "

And the charge rule on p29 says:
"Each time a unit makes a Charge move, until the end of the turn, that unit has the Fights First ability (pg 32)."

Same for the ur-ghoul in Drukhari's Court of the Archon, and many other rules that gives Fight First.
"Ur-ghul: While this unit contains one or more Ur-ghul models, this unit has the Fights First ability. "

But some rules that gives fight first explicitly gives it to models.
"Combat Drugs: If this model is Empowered in the Fight phase, then until the end of the phase, models in this model’s unit, have the Fights First ability. "

Does this imply that Fights First automatically applies to all models in a unit? Or does it make the ur-ghoul and charge type of wording RAW worthless? Is it just a typo that will get erratad?

This is not implied. It is what the rule explicitly states. Each rule references the unit gaining Fight First. That means every model in the unit.

So why do the Fights First rule have that caveat about "provided every model in the unit has this ability."?

And why do some abilities explicitly give it to "models in this model's unit"?

And a follow up: Is it possible to make an attached unit where only one of the included units have Fights First on their data card? I can't think of any examples where that is possible, all characters with fights first that are leaders either gives fights first to their bodyguard unit (Lelith Hesperax) or can only join units that already has it (jain zar). And vice versa for bodyguard units.

If it is possible to make an attached unit like that, is the Fights First ability carried over to the attached unit, but not to the models? (The way keywords works.) Are they not carried over at all? Are they applied to all models?

How else can there be a unit with only some models that has Fights First?

Thank you for your insights and theories :-)

If GW did their job correctly, this will never happen.

Then again. Why does the Fights First ability have that caveat about "every model"?

If it is always applied to a unit and thus applied to all models in that unit. It really shouldn't care about models.

Is ther maybe a way to remove Fights First from a model?

I'm sure it's obvious that it's a pre-emptive answer to the question "What happens if you get a unit where only some of the models have Fights First, such as a character without Fights First joined a unit that does have Fights First?"

But all for all of the cards that I've checked, the characters with Fights First that join units all have special rules granting Fights First to the whole unit (Lucius the Eternal, Tranceweaver, Foul Blightspawn, World Eaters Master of Executions, Vargard Obryn, Eldar Banshee masks and the Visarch, and so on.) So it looks like the "This rule only works if every model in the unit has this rule" bit in Fights First is currently just a solution looking for a problem.

The only plausible situation where the rule would apply that I can find at the moment all involve someone making up a new leader model (for a campaign or something?):
- Someone makes up a generic leader model for Tyranids that can join any unit, and sticks that model into a unit of Von Ryan's Leapers.
- Someone makes up a generic leader model for Imperial Guard that can join any unit, and sticks that model into Gant's Ghosts unit.

On the other hand, it's a lot safer than some of the other possible ways that "What happens if you get a mixed unit?" could have been answered. Because it's really easy to imagine various ways that a leader might "accidentally" get granted Fights First.

Edit: And heaven knows, the previous edition had enough ways for models or units to lose Fights First, that that's also a legitimate reason to have the rules address what happens in a mixed Fights First and not-Fights First unit.

Ignore; I'm not awake yet.

Regarding multi combat... how it works the fight first?

My first game, I decided to try the Callidus with Imperial Guard vs Death Guard. Fighint in an objective, I got charged by 5 Plague Marines + regular character into a unit of 10 catachan and straken.

They fought first and killed 9 guardsmen, Straken managed to kill 3 plague marines, quite impressive. I failed the test and decided to commit and keep the fight. My callidus teleported and helped the next turn. She cleared the whole unit left before they could attack...

But what if she didnt? how would the initiative go in that case? (it was my turn)

callidus>plague marines>straken?
callidus>straken>plague marines?

If there are multiple fights it goes

Defenders unit any fight first unit attackers unit any fight first unit + (chargers) back and forth until one player runs out if units then the remaining player resolves the remainder until all fights first units have fought

To be 100% clear, the Fight Phase is divided into two subphases: Fight First and Everyone Else. You alternate fighting with the applicable units starting with the player whose turn it is not in both subphrases of the Fight Phase.

This means that units that have native Fight First are very effective at blunting charges because they have an opportunity to fight before the charger.

Only if they are charged by one unit if I charge two fight first units separately you fight with one then I do

U02dah4 wrote:
Only if they are charged by one unit if I charge two fight first units separately you fight with one then I do

But if you charge, say, the Lion, the Lion is still going first no matter how many units charge him.

 Manfred von Drakken wrote:

U02dah4 wrote:
Only if they are charged by one unit if I charge two fight first units separately you fight with one then I do

But if you charge, say, the Lion, the Lion is still going first no matter how many units charge him.

I think U02dah4 means that if you charge one unit of Howling Banshees and in the same turn but in another end of the battlefield charge the Solitaire, to take two glass-cannon examples. Then the opponent gets to fight with one of those units, and then you get to fight with one of yours. So you get a chance to destroy the Fights First unit that has yet to fight.

Exactly