In 2007, a sentinel cost £15, which would apparently be £24.40 today after inflation. £27.50 is above inflation but by less than I thought (plus two new kits in the interim). £20 is in the expected ballpark.
Sentinels have always been a pricey option given the pts per model.
I'm not happy about the ducklings' price either, but the Cawdor Ridge Walkers are on the same size base(60x35mm oval) as a Skitarii with an arquebus or an Atalan Jackal. They're not that big.
Undead_Love-Machine wrote: Because it seems to me that you really enjoy saying some variation of "printer goes brrr", so much so that you actively look for reasons to say it.
And what are you looking for? Reasons to stan for a corporation? If my opinions upset you, you can put me on ignore like an adult.
Undead_Love-Machine wrote: Because it seems to me that you really enjoy saying some variation of "printer goes brrr", so much so that you actively look for reasons to say it.
And what are you looking for? Reasons to stan for a corporation? If my opinions upset you, you can put me on ignore like an adult.
There's very few people who I feel the need to put on ignore, and I certainly don't feel the need to boast about the ones that I do
Regardless, where is the fun in ignoring people?
Imagine how boring a forum would be if everybody had the same opinion
I'm not happy about the ducklings' price either, but the Cawdor Ridge Walkers are on the same size base(60x35mm oval) as a Skitarii with an arquebus or an Atalan Jackal. They're not that big.
Sure, and sure, pricing takes into account a lot of things, but between Necromunda and Legions Imperialis we have a lot of consistent precedent for two copies of one 8x4" specialist games sprue costing £30, which is almost certainly the makeup of a Hermes box, and compounded with them being low points value, I can't help but consider the price to be a bit inflated.
Whilst I don't agree with the pricing on a point for price basis, GW can't sell the Hermes at too cheap a price point as they easily proxy for normal sentinels. It would just make it a no brainer if they were that much cheaper than the standard sentinel.
endlesswaltz123 wrote: Whilst I don't agree with the pricing on a point for price basis, GW can't sell the Hermes at too cheap a price point as they easily proxy for normal sentinels. It would just make it a no brainer if they were that much cheaper than the standard sentinel.
Oh well.
Yeah, pricing on a point for price basis is not something that can ever happen in the real world, unless GW want to lose money on every low points model that they sell.
lord_blackfang wrote: Geez never mind, I'll wait for the STL. 2 Hermes for the price of a Russ is ridiculous.
36 pts ... For the price of a leman?
I'm not sure what price people expected?
A standard Sentinel is £27.50, why is £20 for a single Hermes "ridiculous"?
Because realistically the models margine is so far out in insanity that GW could've gone and did the community a solid one and make the price better, especially for such an expensive army.
Alas,SA players can console themselve with the fact that an earthshaker is worth 200 pts to fill a list
I keep seeing complaints over the cost of the sentinel when I feel the need to remind people that the HH spent over a decade being run off £30 packs of 5 resin marines with no weapons. This is very obviously a game aimed at and for whales.
Dudeface wrote: I keep seeing complaints over the cost of the sentinel when I feel the need to remind people that the HH spent over a decade being run off £30 packs of 5 resin marines with no weapons. This is very obviously a game aimed at and for whales.
And singlehandedly fueling the 3d printer producer industry
Dudeface wrote: I keep seeing complaints over the cost of the sentinel when I feel the need to remind people that the HH spent over a decade being run off £30 packs of 5 resin marines with no weapons. This is very obviously a game aimed at and for whales.
Certainly, but I do my... whaling... wait, no, whalers whale, whales get whaled... anyway I love throwing big money at good deals, you price gouge me you get nothing, you give me a deal and I will buy more than I could ever need. They've priced a unit of chaff (topping off at 160 pts) at more than what the Mk3 Battle Group cost. Since both items are undoubtedly underprinted and will sell out, it works out for GW, but if stores had unlimited quantities of both side by side, I wonder which one would generate more profit, even accounting for the Battle Group needing like a 6x investment in sculpting and tooling.
My theory is the price is there to help game balance. Seeing as thise Sentinels can be spammed A LOT, and can be kitted to pack a modest punch, GW have priced them to save the gaming community.
I mean, surely ork Killakans should be the measuring stick? Lots of options, detailed kit, cheap pointswise and meant to be spammed. 3 for 37.50 pounds. Personally that's what i'd hope for.
cody.d. wrote: I mean, surely ork Killakans should be the measuring stick? Lots of options, detailed kit, cheap pointswise and meant to be spammed. 3 for 37.50 pounds. Personally that's what i'd hope for.
Agreed. But the sprue is probably either paired or 2 copies of a single sprue, in which case a 3 pack would have been better.
After this, Solar Auxilia have everything officially released that was announced. Then there is the rotor cannon/ flamer sprue for the veletaris, ogryn unit, stormhammer and baneblade/shadowsword? Right, Aurox/Carnodon, Rapier, and Arvus. Quite a bit for a second solar aux wave, unless once Mechanicum gets a bit starter release GW starts doing releases with 1-2 kits each for astartes, solar aux and mechanicum
After this, Solar Auxilia have everything officially released that was announced. Then there is the rotor cannon/ flamer sprue for the veletaris, ogryn unit, stormhammer and baneblade/shadowsword? Right, Aurox/Carnodon, Rapier, and Arvus. Quite a bit for a second solar aux wave, unless once Mechanicum gets a bit starter release GW starts doing releases with 1-2 kits each for astartes, solar aux and mechanicum
Also the Malcador Infernus and the Valdor for the second wave.
cody.d. wrote: I mean, surely ork Killakans should be the measuring stick? Lots of options, detailed kit, cheap pointswise and meant to be spammed. 3 for 37.50 pounds. Personally that's what i'd hope for.
I don't think that it's fair to compare the two, IMHO.
40k is a much more popular game than 30k, and Orks have always been very popular, so it feels safe to assume that GW will sell more copies of an Ork kit than a Solar Auxilia kit. GW will have obviously taken this kind of thinking into account when pricing.
I agree with Wes that the Hermes kit will most likely be a single sprue, if it is a double sprue kit then it will be the one sprue duplicated.
Of course I'd like GW models to be cheaper, in an ideal world they would be, but this is not an ideal world.
When selecting units for an Auxilia Veletaris Tercio (see Liber Imperium), one Solar Auxilia Hermes Veletaris Squadron unit can be included in place of one Solar Auxilia Veletaris Storm Section unit.
Does this mean they get Line in a Solar Pattern Cohort?
When selecting units for an Auxilia Veletaris Tercio (see Liber Imperium), one Solar Auxilia Hermes Veletaris Squadron unit can be included in place of one Solar Auxilia Veletaris Storm Section unit.
Does this mean they get Line in a Solar Pattern Cohort?
I don't see why not. It's a unit in a Veletaris Tercio.
RAW they can also take an Arvus transport, but ho hum.
When selecting units for an Auxilia Veletaris Tercio (see Liber Imperium), one Solar Auxilia Hermes Veletaris Squadron unit can be included in place of one Solar Auxilia Veletaris Storm Section unit.
Does this mean they get Line in a Solar Pattern Cohort?
I don't see why not. It's a unit in a Veletaris Tercio.
RAW they can also take an Arvus transport, but ho hum.
Given a pair of the classic Sentinels can fit in a Valkyrie if the exhausts and roll cage are tucked down, I think the Hermes fitting in an Arvus is entirely reasonable. They are diddy little walkers.
cody.d. wrote: I mean, surely ork Killakans should be the measuring stick? Lots of options, detailed kit, cheap pointswise and meant to be spammed. 3 for 37.50 pounds. Personally that's what i'd hope for.
I don't think that it's fair to compare the two, IMHO.
40k is a much more popular game than 30k, and Orks have always been very popular, so it feels safe to assume that GW will sell more copies of an Ork kit than a Solar Auxilia kit. GW will have obviously taken this kind of thinking into account when pricing.
I agree with Wes that the Hermes kit will most likely be a single sprue, if it is a double sprue kit then it will be the one sprue duplicated.
Of course I'd like GW models to be cheaper, in an ideal world they would be, but this is not an ideal world.
I don’t think that logic holds true when many HH plastics are priced like 20 year old 40K minis (rhino, vindicator and so on).
cody.d. wrote: I mean, surely ork Killakans should be the measuring stick? Lots of options, detailed kit, cheap pointswise and meant to be spammed. 3 for 37.50 pounds. Personally that's what i'd hope for.
I don't think that it's fair to compare the two, IMHO.
40k is a much more popular game than 30k, and Orks have always been very popular, so it feels safe to assume that GW will sell more copies of an Ork kit than a Solar Auxilia kit. GW will have obviously taken this kind of thinking into account when pricing.
I agree with Wes that the Hermes kit will most likely be a single sprue, if it is a double sprue kit then it will be the one sprue duplicated.
Of course I'd like GW models to be cheaper, in an ideal world they would be, but this is not an ideal world.
I don’t think that logic holds true when many HH plastics are priced like 20 year old 40K minis (rhino, vindicator and so on).
GW know that they will sell many more of the Legion Space Marine kits than their Solar Auxilia equivalent, which gives them more wriggle room on the price of the SM kits.
When selecting units for an Auxilia Veletaris Tercio (see Liber Imperium), one Solar Auxilia Hermes Veletaris Squadron unit can be included in place of one Solar Auxilia Veletaris Storm Section unit.
Does this mean they get Line in a Solar Pattern Cohort?
I don't see why not. It's a unit in a Veletaris Tercio.
RAW they can also take an Arvus transport, but ho hum.
Given a pair of the classic Sentinels can fit in a Valkyrie if the exhausts and roll cage are tucked down, I think the Hermes fitting in an Arvus is entirely reasonable. They are diddy little walkers.
Unfortunately, since only Infantry can embark on transports (barring special rules), the Arvus would just explode at the beginning of the game rather than make a concession that it might indeed fit a Cavalry unit.
Haighus wrote: Given a pair of the classic Sentinels can fit in a Valkyrie if the exhausts and roll cage are tucked down, I think the Hermes fitting in an Arvus is entirely reasonable. They are diddy little walkers.
Anyone remember if Elysian Drop Sentinels could go in a 'normal' Valkyrie, or just the Sky-Talon?
In IA3 (before the Sky Talon was invented) a regular Valkyrie could carry a sentinel in addition to its normal troop complement (with some weapon restrictions).
In IA8 (I believe when the Sky Talon was introduced) a regular Valkyrie cannot carry a drop sentinel, but a Sky Talon can carry 2.
lord_blackfang wrote: "This faction won't be popular so let's make it more expensive" is a bit of a self fulfilling prophecy tho innit
Wrong perspective - in the case of space marines its "80% of our sales for this game will come from this faction, ergo the volume of expected sales allows us to make the price for these goods more competitive in the market". In the case of auxilia it's "this is a niche faction with a niche audience, in order to recoup costs and hit our profitability targets based on expected demand, we need to price these products a bit higher"
The great irony though is GWs understanding of where the demand is and what it looks like seems to be somewhat questionable.
Haighus wrote: In 2007, a sentinel cost £15, which would apparently be £24.40 today after inflation. £27.50 is above inflation but by less than I thought (plus two new kits in the interim). £20 is in the expected ballpark.
Sentinels have always been a pricey option given the pts per model.
You've got to put it in perspective - that is the same price as Chipolte's Double Beef Burrito Bowl ($39.99 USD + sales tax). It's less than a large fast food meal.
boyd wrote: You've got to put it in perspective - that is the same price as Chipolte's Double Beef Burrito Bowl ($39.99 USD + sales tax). It's less than a large fast food meal.
Odd, around here (southeast Michigan / Detroit) that meal from Chipotle would be $16.11 including sales tax.
In any case, I got priced out of GW's stuff 15 years ago. I can't imagine how anyone affords new armies now.
boyd wrote: You've got to put it in perspective - that is the same price as Chipolte's Double Beef Burrito Bowl ($39.99 USD + sales tax). It's less than a large fast food meal.
Odd, around here (southeast Michigan / Detroit) that meal from Chipotle would be $16.11 including sales tax.
One of you must be wrong, it's been established a long time ago only GW is evil enough to have regional pricing.
Yeah, they’re really nice looking. Makes me want to start them if I wasn’t in the process of painting an entire bloody legion. 😅
I’m really surprised to see them so fast after the SA dropped. Seems like GW is really pushing to get HH on the map as another main-line system with large-scale plastic support and less of a focus on marines. Which is great, as it’s always good to see variety on the table top and I know a lot of people dislike how marine-centric HH has been.
I've never been a huge fan of Admech vehicles, but those castellax and thanatar are amazing. I can definitely see adding some allies to my Iron Warriors, or at the very least a praevian.
morganfreeman wrote:Yeah, they’re really nice looking. Makes me want to start them if I wasn’t in the process of painting an entire bloody legion. 😅
I’m really surprised to see them so fast after the SA dropped. Seems like GW is really pushing to get HH on the map as another main-line system with large-scale plastic support and less of a focus on marines. Which is great, as it’s always good to see variety on the table top and I know a lot of people dislike how marine-centric HH has been.
As long as they don't decide they need a new edition every 3 years now.
morganfreeman wrote:Yeah, they’re really nice looking. Makes me want to start them if I wasn’t in the process of painting an entire bloody legion. 😅
I’m really surprised to see them so fast after the SA dropped. Seems like GW is really pushing to get HH on the map as another main-line system with large-scale plastic support and less of a focus on marines. Which is great, as it’s always good to see variety on the table top and I know a lot of people dislike how marine-centric HH has been.
As long as they don't decide they need a new edition every 3 years now.
Best case would be if HH and LI and/or Old World got bumped up to full line status and we got a 5-6 year cycle as a result. But HH could use some touch upside honestly. Balance is a mess in some places that could use a solid redo.
Mechanicus by far are the star of the show in the reveals they've shared, totally puts their 40k brethren to shame. 30k really has done a fantastic transition to plastic for their non-marine lines and it is seriously tempting for me to consider dipping into the game because of them.
I really love all of those releases. I've always liked the thanatar and triaros. They're such brilliant designs. It's a shame they can't be used in 40k. I might get some in the future, but chances are they'll be available in epic scale before I get round to it and I'll have settle for some teeny tiny versions instead.
I will definitely be picking up a Dominus once they're available though.
Kind of happy to see Mechanicum in plastic, except I already have 18 Thallax, 3 Castallex and a Thanatar all in resin alongside a few other bits and pieces!
Dysartes wrote: Have darklight weapons cropped up before in the HH game? The name/type doesn't ring a bell.
That Archmagos Prime does look like he'll make a good alt-Dominus, too, depending on the base size.
Not sure of the exact name, but they first appeared in HH book 1 at the very beginning as an option for Thallaxii units. The models were a few years later.
Hopefully we’ll see more stuff ported over to plastic.
I think Legion specific units are most likely to remain in resin for the foreseeable, which I can live with. But I do hope to see Super Heavies cross the Rubicon Plasticarus soon.
Gadzilla666 wrote: Ok, I think that we can assume (yes, I'm well aware of what we do when we do that) what future HH releases will be based on this preview.
1: Thanatar Calix. It's just a weapons change from the base kit. Duh
2: Plastic Sabres and either a full or conversion kit for Sicaran Arcus and Punishers based on LI.
3: Karacnos Assault Tank. We're getting the Krios, the baseplate, so, this seems a simple adjustment.
Just spitballing. Might be wrong. But it all seems likely. Feel free to yell at me if you disagree.
Looking at what SA got in terms of kit sizes, the Triaros is pretty much the Dracosan and the Karacnos would be its Malcador. In the same way the two Leman Russ versions could be the parallel to two Thanatar versions. Then they got the basic Lasrifle section (Tech Thralls), an HQ choice with the Command section (Archmagos), the twin Hermes sentinel kit (twin Callax kit) and an elite infantry in Velatarii (Thallax). This would cover everything revealed for now. In addition SA also got the Aethon sentinel as a medium size model (Domitar?), and the Medusa/Basilisk in a single kit with just a gun swap (two Krios versions?)
I doubt any of the other characters or the really big guns will go plastic for now so in addition to the above we also have Myrmidons, Ursarax, Scyllax and Vorax who could go plastic. I do think they will get more than SA got but I also doubt we'll see all four of these this time. Maybe either Myrmidons or Scyllax for one more "human" unit to break up all the robots?
Gadzilla666 wrote: Ok, I think that we can assume (yes, I'm well aware of what we do when we do that) what future HH releases will be based on this preview.
1: Thanatar Calix. It's just a weapons change from the base kit. Duh
2: Plastic Sabres and either a full or conversion kit for Sicaran Arcus and Punishers based on LI.
3: Karacnos Assault Tank. We're getting the Krios, the baseplate, so, this seems a simple adjustment.
Just spitballing. Might be wrong. But it all seems likely. Feel free to yell at me if you disagree.
All safe bets. Also the other Deredeo loadout. Javelins and Rapiers in the same LI boat as Sabres. And I'd bet the Solar and Mechanicum will stay in step with Astartes for new releases going forward, maybe even a bit faster.
Battlegroup is probably a bit shrinkflated in regards to points again, but at least it will cost more
Gadzilla666 wrote: Ok, I think that we can assume (yes, I'm well aware of what we do when we do that) what future HH releases will be based on this preview.
1: Thanatar Calix. It's just a weapons change from the base kit. Duh
2: Plastic Sabres and either a full or conversion kit for Sicaran Arcus and Punishers based on LI.
3: Karacnos Assault Tank. We're getting the Krios, the baseplate, so, this seems a simple adjustment.
Just spitballing. Might be wrong. But it all seems likely. Feel free to yell at me if you disagree.
Ursarax seems like a no-brainer since they made the Thanatar already.
I would also suspect the Krios to move over, assuming they can splice the tracks for it like they did for the other HH tank kits.
And I am crossing my fingers for Mymidons. One kit that covers Secutors and Destructors.
I was just putting together some tiny Spartans and realised there’s another missing HH sprue/kit; the Laser Destroyer sponsons for the Spartan. We even know what it should look like from the mini Spartan kit so where are they GW?
BrookM wrote:Those thralls are amazing, proper tech zombies!
Id like to second this opinion on the tech-thralls.
Also the magos is great too, very mantis-like.
Haighus wrote:
Dysartes wrote: Have darklight weapons cropped up before in the HH game? The name/type doesn't ring a bell.
That Archmagos Prime does look like he'll make a good alt-Dominus, too, depending on the base size.
Not sure of the exact name, but they first appeared in HH book 1 at the very beginning as an option for Thallaxii units. The models were a few years later.
Brain fog got to you?
The book 1 thallax entry allowed upgrading to photon thrusters but the weapon rules entry was for "photon thruster cannons" which then referred to them as photon thrusters again..
Essentially FW were going to put castellax into book 1 but backed out of it; putting them in book 2 and someone doing the editing got a little confused. The castellax could then take a "darkfire cannon" in Book 2: Massacre.
Gadzilla666 wrote: 2: Plastic Sabres and either a full or conversion kit for Sicaran Arcus and Punishers based on LI.
For a sec there my brain was wondering why we need the Sabre Heavy Weapons Platform brought back from OOP-land
Scottywan82 wrote:
Ursarax seems like a no-brainer since they made the Thallax already.
Fixed that for you..
Not liking the extra bulk on the thallax tbh. And something has changed about the Castellax too i just dont know them as well as i know my Thallax.
Not liking the extra bulk on the thallax tbh. And something has changed about the Castellax too i just dont know them as well as i know my Thallax.
Personally I like the bit of extra bulk. Makes them a bit more imposing and less fragile as war machines and models. Thallax looks like the legs are more solid and armor plates are a bit thicker, plus shoulders have grenade launchers now. Castellax has slightly more solid legs and arms, and the ammo box is much larger and hangs past the hips.
The little nodes or whatever they are on the Thallax shoulders is what irks me. It makes them look kind of busy. The resin models didn't have that detail on them. Myrmidions would be super cool in plastic, hopefully they get around to those at some point.
Well I think the new Mechanicus models are superb. I'm glad that I passed on most of the SA range (aside from a couple of Malcadors for my Militia), because I will have to get these models. The Triaros is probably the best looking HH vehicle so far.
Snord wrote: Well I think the new Mechanicus models are superb. I'm glad that I passed on most of the SA range (aside from a couple of Malcadors for my Militia), because I will have to get these models. The Triaros is probably the best looking HH vehicle so far.
The Krios are probably going to appear, and the Karaknos is unfortunately almost a given based on the Triarios, but I am hoping for the Macrocarid to show up in plastic. I have one before they discontinued it, but would love to see more, and with weapon options.
Thargrim wrote: The little nodes or whatever they are on the Thallax shoulders is what irks me. It makes them look kind of busy. The resin models didn't have that detail on them. Myrmidions would be super cool in plastic, hopefully they get around to those at some point.
The things on the shoulders look like you can probably leave them off, but obvs won’t know for sure until we see the sprues.
The Krios are probably going to appear, and the Karaknos is unfortunately almost a given based on the Triarios, but I am hoping for the Macrocarid to show up in plastic. I have one before they discontinued it, but would love to see more, and with weapon options.
The Macrocarid is a weird one since it disappeared so fast again. I think it was 2016 release and 2019 discontinued? As far as I remember what I read online was that the mold broke. Since at that time there would have been plans for HH already I could see them just going no need to make a new one, we'll just bring it back in plastic in a few years anyway and not enough people will buy it in resin in the meantime to make a resin mold worth it. Also it would kinda fill the "new" slot, like the Aethon and Hermes did for SA without actually needing that much work since they already had the design
Gadzilla666 wrote: Ok, I think that we can assume (yes, I'm well aware of what we do when we do that) what future HH releases will be based on this preview.
1: Thanatar Calix. It's just a weapons change from the base kit. Duh
2: Plastic Sabres and either a full or conversion kit for Sicaran Arcus and Punishers based on LI.
3: Karacnos Assault Tank. We're getting the Krios, the baseplate, so, this seems a simple adjustment.
Just spitballing. Might be wrong. But it all seems likely. Feel free to yell at me if you disagree.
All safe bets. Also the other Deredeo loadout. Javelins and Rapiers in the same LI boat as Sabres. And I'd bet the Solar and Mechanicum will stay in step with Astartes for new releases going forward, maybe even a bit faster.
Battlegroup is probably a bit shrinkflated in regards to points again, but at least it will cost more
Yes, hopefully. The more plastic, the better.
Scottywan82 wrote:
Spoiler:
Gadzilla666 wrote: Ok, I think that we can assume (yes, I'm well aware of what we do when we do that) what future HH releases will be based on this preview.
1: Thanatar Calix. It's just a weapons change from the base kit. Duh
2: Plastic Sabres and either a full or conversion kit for Sicaran Arcus and Punishers based on LI.
3: Karacnos Assault Tank. We're getting the Krios, the baseplate, so, this seems a simple adjustment.
Just spitballing. Might be wrong. But it all seems likely. Feel free to yell at me if you disagree.
Ursarax seems like a no-brainer since they made the Thanatar already.
I would also suspect the Krios to move over, assuming they can splice the tracks for it like they did for the other HH tank kits.
And I am crossing my fingers for Mymidons. One kit that covers Secutors and Destructors.
Yeah, plastic Myrmidons are the wish that I didn't dare voice. I want them. NOW.
Yeah, plastic Myrmidons are the wish that I didn't dare voice. I want them. NOW.
Same. I need them so much. I just want all the tech priests, honestly. Auxilia, Arcuitor Magisterium, Myrmidons... Just gimme. Plastic Abeyant especially.
They are, but they're also showing Thallax as a 6 model unit with 3 heavies, which aren't currently allowed(it's 1 in 3). If the things on the shoulder are new options, then it's possible the list gets a redux.
I think with the Myrmidons there are options:
1. massive box for 3 dudes that costs a lot for a loads of extra weapons
2. normal sized box missing options
3. the errata and normalise the loadouts
Secutors have an axe and 2 maxima bolters base. Both their bolters can be exchanged for 1 volkite charger, graviton gun, irad-cleanser, or phased plasma fusil.
Destructors have a shock charger and a volkite culverin base. The culverin can be exchanged for a conversion beamer, graviton imploder, darkfire cannon or irradiation engine.
I could see a world where each unit has its own kit with 3, the base options, and 1 of each upgrade option, like the 40k Havoc squad.
Rihgu wrote: Secutors have an axe and 2 maxima bolters base. Both their bolters can be exchanged for 1 volkite charger, graviton gun, irad-cleanser, or phased plasma fusil.
Destructors have a shock charger and a volkite culverin base. The culverin can be exchanged for a conversion beamer, graviton imploder, darkfire cannon or irradiation engine.
I could see a world where each unit has its own kit with 3, the base options, and 1 of each upgrade option, like the 40k Havoc squad.
That's a fair take, I hadn't considered separating them out as 2 kits as it seemed incredibly wasteful, so likely the correct way forward.
That's certainly possible - I'll hold my hands up as having not done any size research on this unit, so I have no clue how feasible three to a sprue actually is.
Dysartes wrote: That's certainly possible - I'll hold my hands up as having not done any size research on this unit, so I have no clue how feasible three to a sprue actually is.
Dysartes wrote: That's certainly possible - I'll hold my hands up as having not done any size research on this unit, so I have no clue how feasible three to a sprue actually is.
They are rather large models, especially with the mechadendrites extended. Depending on how they are cut, you can easily fit three to a standard sprue if you move the arms, weapons and other fiddly bits to a weapons sprue.
I'm digging the new minis, but I truly WANT myrms in plastic. Along with a plastic macrocarid they would give my existing mechanicum a boost in the beefcake department.
Myrmidons and Charonite Ogryn could be a fun “bruiser” themed release window. Perhaps with the Ursarax, who give the warmest “whoops you’ve turned to ash” hugs in the Galaxy.
The Velatarii are also set up with bodies all on one sprue and the Axes/Volkites on another which makes it very likely we'll get another kit in the future with the body sprue and a Rotor Cannon/Flamer sprue. Wouldn't surprise me at all of Myrmidons go the same way
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Mate, I’d take that over No Options For You, Smelly, as we have right now.
Well I say “We”. I’m not actually a Mechanicum player, but the Myrmidons not having any kit options are part of the reason for that!
Agreed. Currently it's "you get a grab bag, at horrendous prices". Maybe fix that, gw?
You know full well how GW like to fix that, say hello to "Myrmidons beam weapon" or whatever as their only weapon option.
No. As others have already pointed: that isn't the policy for HH.
Dudeface wrote:I think with the Myrmidons there are options:
1. massive box for 3 dudes that costs a lot for a loads of extra weapons
2. normal sized box missing options
3. the errata and normalise the loadouts
#3 just isn't happening. 30k is about full options. Hell, we have entire factions that are almost completely about converting your army (SoS says "hello"). I realize that you're coming from a modern 40k view on things, but that just isn't how it works in 30k. There's actually an entire thread about this dichotomy in the HH sub-forum, if you're interested.
Still sad no close combat upgrade kits; the last thing on the road map. I trust they'll do them (they did everything else on that list), so it's just a matter of when.
lord_blackfang wrote: Maybe the command sprue and the melee upgrades are one and the same? After all it's literally 2 flags and everything else is melee weapons.
lord_blackfang wrote: Maybe the command sprue and the melee upgrades are one and the same? After all it's literally 2 flags and everything else is melee weapons.
Not a chance.
Yeah. I want my LIGHTNING CLAWS! And some thunder hammers would be nice as well.
No One Important wrote: You'll take your power swords and your visually distinct other power swords and you'll like it - or they'll release more power swords, capeesh?
No One Important wrote: You'll take your power swords and your visually distinct other power swords and you'll like it - or they'll release more power swords, capeesh?
Nope. Won't like it.
What about if they take multiple small power swords, and strap them to the back of a gauntlet... and release that in a kit?
No One Important wrote: You'll take your power swords and your visually distinct other power swords and you'll like it - or they'll release more power swords, capeesh?
Nope. Won't like it.
What about if they take multiple small power swords, and strap them to the back of a gauntlet... and release that in a kit?
OR, hear me out, We hit gw where it hurts and either consider 3d printing, 3rd parties or get the plasticard and greenstuff back out. Because at this stage it gets a bit ridicoulus how they treat HH in regards to rules and release maintenance.
morganfreeman wrote: There are people out there who haven’t turned to 3d printing for all their HH nicnacs?
Madness.
Not everyone wants to spend the money for a printer.
So buy from people who have one.
Etsy has a massive community of shops which are just a couple of people with a printer and STLs. There’s literally no excuse for someone not having the bits they want at a price cheaper than GW would charge, except having a fetish for corporate boot licking.
morganfreeman wrote: There are people out there who haven’t turned to 3d printing for all their HH nicnacs?
Madness.
Not everyone wants to spend the money for a printer.
So buy from people who have one.
Etsy has a massive community of shops which are just a couple of people with a printer and STLs. There’s literally no excuse for someone not having the bits they want at a price cheaper than GW would charge, except having a fetish for corporate boot licking.
I mean a set of 10 mark appropriate melee arms and some shoulders will still set you back £30+ from a printer bro on etsy.
morganfreeman wrote: There are people out there who haven’t turned to 3d printing for all their HH nicnacs?
Madness.
Not everyone wants to spend the money for a printer.
So buy from people who have one.
Etsy has a massive community of shops which are just a couple of people with a printer and STLs. There’s literally no excuse for someone not having the bits they want at a price cheaper than GW would charge, except having a fetish for corporate boot licking.
I mean a set of 10 mark appropriate melee arms and some shoulders will still set you back £30+ from a printer bro on etsy.
Not if you have a serious look. Also, if they are out of stock it doesn’t take 6 months like it does for GW.
Really you can keep making excuses, but 3D printing is the way.
Or like, y'know speak to people IRL and do bitz trades?
Cos that stuff is free.
Release yourself from the need to have everything be perfect and embrace kitbashing.
And come on, do we really need to call people bootlickers just because they disagree with you on 3d printing? You aren't going to sell people on it by being gakky.
Honestly I'm both surprised and annoyed that the plastic Mechanicum are as good as they turned out to be, as I'd *almost* managed to put three of my concept armies in the "too expensive, let it go..." bin and now they'd be no more expensive than anything else and I have an itch to do them.
I wasn't the greatest fan of the little tweaks made to the SAux design to get them into plastic, but everything for Mechanicum just hits right, I even love the Zombots.
morganfreeman wrote: There are people out there who haven’t turned to 3d printing for all their HH nicnacs?
Madness.
Not everyone wants to spend the money for a printer.
So buy from people who have one.
Etsy has a massive community of shops which are just a couple of people with a printer and STLs. There’s literally no excuse for someone not having the bits they want at a price cheaper than GW would charge, except having a fetish for corporate boot licking.
I mean a set of 10 mark appropriate melee arms and some shoulders will still set you back £30+ from a printer bro on etsy.
Not if you have a serious look. Also, if they are out of stock it doesn’t take 6 months like it does for GW.
Really you can keep making excuses, but 3D printing is the way.
Well please find your way out of here, this is 30k News & Rumours not 3D printing sales pitch
morganfreeman wrote: There are people out there who haven’t turned to 3d printing for all their HH nicnacs?
Madness.
Not everyone wants to spend the money for a printer.
So buy from people who have one.
Etsy has a massive community of shops which are just a couple of people with a printer and STLs. There’s literally no excuse for someone not having the bits they want at a price cheaper than GW would charge, except having a fetish for corporate boot licking.
I mean a set of 10 mark appropriate melee arms and some shoulders will still set you back £30+ from a printer bro on etsy.
Not if you have a serious look. Also, if they are out of stock it doesn’t take 6 months like it does for GW.
Really you can keep making excuses, but 3D printing is the way.
Well please find your way out of here, this is 30k News & Rumours not 3D printing sales pitch
Thanks for filling in for the MODs. I’m sure they appreciate your help as much as the rest of us
This is a thread about the news and rumors about 30k as a hobby. When people complain that it is impossible to afford it, some of us feel it necessary to remind people that there are affordable was. If that offends you….
Perhaps there should be a separate thread for people to circle jerk over 3d printing?
Perhaps they can get it out of their system that way?
I mean, if I ever read something along the lines of "people who don't use 3d printing are corporate bootlickers" again I might just die from an overload of cringe.
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YodhrinsForge wrote: Honestly I'm both surprised and annoyed that the plastic Mechanicum are as good as they turned out to be, as I'd *almost* managed to put three of my concept armies in the "too expensive, let it go..." bin and now they'd be no more expensive than anything else and I have an itch to do them.
I wasn't the greatest fan of the little tweaks made to the SAux design to get them into plastic, but everything for Mechanicum just hits right, I even love the Zombots.
I've never been the biggest Mechanicum fan but even I was impressed by them, I'm even considering starting an army
Fair, they used to charge more than that, it's £5 for 10 mk appropriate shoulders. So £36 for 20 marines, £30 for arms and £10 for shoulders so £76 for 20 despoilers makes me spin because on one hand, that's a lot of cash for at best 10% of an army, but it's also not terrible compared to a lot of GW pricing.
morganfreeman wrote: There are people out there who haven’t turned to 3d printing for all their HH nicnacs?
Madness.
Not everyone wants to spend the money for a printer.
So buy from people who have one.
Etsy has a massive community of shops which are just a couple of people with a printer and STLs. There’s literally no excuse for someone not having the bits they want at a price cheaper than GW would charge, except having a fetish for corporate boot licking.
I don't need an excuse not to use printed models, I chose not to do so. I have no intention of buying a printer and see no reason to pay somebody for ripping off another person's work. You may see it as being smart, I see it as a form of piracy. Each to their own but don't look down at me for making my choice to support the business that invested in sculpting the models in the first place. You do it your way I'll do it mine.
What's a bit amusing about that is that buying STLs directly supports the person who sculpted them, whilst GW sculptors are just wage slaves who relinquish all rights to their work to a corporation whose current management and owners have basically had zero to do with creating the IP we worship, they just inherited it from actual talent that has long since moved on.
Which is not to say you should print if you're not comfortable doing so, just a bit of perspective.
morganfreeman wrote: There are people out there who haven’t turned to 3d printing for all their HH nicnacs?
Madness.
Not everyone wants to spend the money for a printer.
So buy from people who have one.
Etsy has a massive community of shops which are just a couple of people with a printer and STLs. There’s literally no excuse for someone not having the bits they want at a price cheaper than GW would charge, except having a fetish for corporate boot licking.
I don't need an excuse not to use printed models, I chose not to do so. I have no intention of buying a printer and see no reason to pay somebody for ripping off another person's work. You may see it as being smart, I see it as a form of piracy. Each to their own but don't look down at me for making my choice to support the business that invested in sculpting the models in the first place. You do it your way I'll do it mine.
If they're directly aping GW designs, I see your point.
But if you're just buying generally made and appropriately-sized axes or mauls, that's not piracy.
lord_blackfang wrote: What's a bit amusing about that is that buying STLs directly supports the person who sculpted them, whilst GW sculptors are just wage slaves who relinquish all rights to their work to a corporation whose current management and owners have basically had zero to do with creating the IP we worship, they just inherited it from actual talent that has long since moved on.
Which is not to say you should print if you're not comfortable doing so, just a bit of perspective.
^^^ this.
GW owns the idea of ‘beefy guy in futuristic plate armor’ about as much as ‘hero in a psuedo medieval world with a sword’ is the property of Tolkien, despite what the shills and apologists will argue. Or is Dudeface going to come in here and preach about how GW has the IP rights to 28mm axes, or the very concept of an energized weapon?
3d printing directly supports artists and sculptors; the webstores that sell the service buy the prints to sell, and the artists themselves sell the STLs on websites. It’s a healthier eco system for literally everyone involved. It’s also voting with your wallet; telling a massive company that there’s no excuse for going YEARS without something so basic, so voting those dollars in the direction of someone who’s willing to put in effort and fulfill a need.
So not only does it actually directly support creators and artists, but it’s even the capitalist thing to do: Support the guy who steps in to fill a glaring gap in the market.
Part of me wants to use some of these new models for the 2nd Ed 40K Adeptus Mechanicus list in the Codex Imperialis.
These guys would be perfect for servitor squads with lasguns
Then use Skitarii as Techpriest squads with lasguns & special weapons. Maybe have Kataphrons as Tarantula or Rapier proxies.
I'd be able to play the army I always wanted back in '95
I didn't actually take a close look at those until now, damn they are way creepier than the older ones.
I like it though. Fits with the idea that these are the lowest strata of Mechanicum society.
Gert wrote: I didn't actually take a close look at those until now, damn they are way creepier than the older ones. I like it though. Fits with the idea that these are the lowest strata of Mechanicum society.
Yea I've seen some folks not happy about the shambling zombie poses but I love them. Gonna be 2-3 launch boxes for me (stop the presses, man with printer supports good product lol)
If someone is maybe a bit iffy about the zombie shambling, maybe try conceptualising their movement less as zombie walking and more the way the peregrine or hawk moves when they're in "hunting mode", ie the lasgun is perfectly still and gyro-locked to the target and the whole of the rest of the body is just shifting around it in small ways to keep it steady.
Gert wrote: I didn't actually take a close look at those until now, damn they are way creepier than the older ones.
I like it though. Fits with the idea that these are the lowest strata of Mechanicum society.
I like these guys too. A reminder of how messed up the Imperium really is. I think I'd enjoy painting them as well.
I went back and looked at the Mechanicum range again (I always liked their tanks, but don't know the models particularly well). Clearly, we are going to get the Karacnos version of the Triaros, which will be a very cool model. I wonder if the Krios will also appear in plastic?
Dysartes wrote: What are the Tech-Thralls armed with? It didn't seem to say in the preview article.
They look like a redesigned version of the las-lock - which I assume is meant to be a combination of a lasgun and a flintlock musket. They've even given them blade attachments which look similar to an 18th century bayonet.
The murder-bots are all fantastic, with the Thallax being standout. I also like that the Thanatar's plasma mortar doesn't appear to have lost any of the excellent little details in the shift to plastic.
The tech-thralls are easily the weakest of the Mechanicum plastics. Those gimpy legged poses are just not doing it for me. Just because they're "indefatigable cyber-puppets" doesn't mean they have to be shambling. Shambling is not at all combat efficient.
The Arch-magos is also not my favourite. For as much as I dislike how busy some of the 40k Ad-mech minis are, this is just sort of.... dull. Where's all his crazy technogeegaws? The mechanical crab legs hidden under robes thing is getting a bit boring by now. Can't he just have 2 normal legs? 3 would also be acceptable.
Be interesting to see what options he comes with though. It could end up being a great source of bitz.
Shakalooloo wrote: One wonders how the servitors put their boots on in the morning.
Boot lacing servitors.
Who in turn have their own servitors who put their shirts on since their fingers are replaced with boot lacing spindles.
It's servitors all the way down.
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KidCthulhu wrote: Part of me wants to use some of these new models for the 2nd Ed 40K Adeptus Mechanicus list in the Codex Imperialis.
These guys would be perfect for servitor squads with lasguns
Then use Skitarii as Techpriest squads with lasguns & special weapons. Maybe have Kataphrons as Tarantula or Rapier proxies.
I'd be able to play the army I always wanted back in '95
I know right!
Though I'd personally lop off the laser tip and call them shotguns, the knockback effect was a great way to immobilize far more powerful foes.
Gotta say Mechanicus is really tempting me. Shame about the 5 year backlog of projects...
The tech-thralls are easily the weakest of the Mechanicum plastics. Those gimpy legged poses are just not doing it for me. Just because they're "indefatigable cyber-puppets" doesn't mean they have to be shambling. Shambling is not at all combat efficient.
Well, they aren't combat efficient. They're not only the dregs in Mechanicum forces but also in the rules. WS/BS 2, can't run, no reactions or sweeping advance, FNP 5+... they're the zombies in 30k and the Tech-priests the Necromancers.
I have 30+ of the old ones, so it's gonna be a good mix. I like both, the resin and plastic models and I will get more even if they mostly suck.
The tech-thralls are easily the weakest of the Mechanicum plastics. Those gimpy legged poses are just not doing it for me. Just because they're "indefatigable cyber-puppets" doesn't mean they have to be shambling. Shambling is not at all combat efficient.
Well, they aren't combat efficient. They're not only the dregs in Mechanicum forces but also in the rules. WS/BS 2, can't run, no reactions or sweeping advance, FNP 5+... they're the zombies in 40k and the Tech-priests the Necromancers.
I have 30+ of the old ones, so it's gonna be a good mix. I like both, the resin and plastic models and I will get more even if they mostly suck.
I mean, they suck at doing damage.
But when 30 models is only 105 points... They're damn good at filling space and holding objectives.
The tech-thralls are easily the weakest of the Mechanicum plastics. Those gimpy legged poses are just not doing it for me. Just because they're "indefatigable cyber-puppets" doesn't mean they have to be shambling. Shambling is not at all combat efficient.
Well, they aren't combat efficient. They're not only the dregs in Mechanicum forces but also in the rules. WS/BS 2, can't run, no reactions or sweeping advance, FNP 5+... they're the zombies in 40k and the Tech-priests the Necromancers.
I have 30+ of the old ones, so it's gonna be a good mix. I like both, the resin and plastic models and I will get more even if they mostly suck.
I mean, they suck at doing damage.
But when 30 models is only 105 points... They're damn good at filling space and holding objectives.
Also tough.
Though i think their main utility is to deny area BUUUUUT with the milita provenances you got a better deal available technically if you want to kill something on occaision. Also you get access to LoS ignoring firepower easier.
Lack of melee weapons is getting absurd, though I see they're at least now acknowledging a 'delay'
Also from the article which seems to have flown under the radar:
Here at Warhammer Community, we continue on the road to the new edition of Warhammer Age of Sigmar, but with a few surprises – including a new entry in the Exemplary Battles of the Age of Darkness series.
That's generous of you. It just reinforced how much it looks terrible for me.
In a vacuum, it's an excellent model and the armour itself looks fine. But knowing it's supposed to be MkII, it just loses me.
The command upgrade kit annoys me a bit. On one hand it's an array of nice and generic parts to customise a command/veteran squad or add a touch of flair to a praetor/centurion, but a bit more variety would have been nice. Throw in a couple of power axes/mace or a power fist. Some charnabal weapons maybe. Some really grizzled looking heads. Where's all the bionic heads and arms? Given how the legs are cut up in the MkIII/VI kits, why not have a few bionic legs parts that fit onto the regular legs?
So Command Squad is the same price bracket as LI squadrons and I was gonna say that's a lot for 5 space marines, but whilst I was typing I decided 5 totally blinged out space marines is still a much better deal than four 2" drop pods.
Snrub wrote: The command upgrade kit annoys me a bit. On one hand it's an array of nice and generic parts to customise a command/veteran squad or add a touch of flair to a praetor/centurion, but a bit more variety would have been nice. Throw in a couple of power axes/mace or a power fist. Some charnabal weapons maybe. Some really grizzled looking heads. Where's all the bionic heads and arms? Given how the legs are cut up in the MkIII/VI kits, why not have a few bionic legs parts that fit onto the regular legs?
Like, it just could have been so much better.
Yes, just providing power swords is pretty uninspiring - it's not like they are hard to get hold of. More bits of bling would also have been very welcome. I guess we have to hope that somewhere down the line is a customisable Centurion kit. On the plus side, the standards are nicely done, as are the helmets.
Unsure if we're up to date on valrak rumours but as of yesterday for HH:
Reiterates high confidence in these on his side:
- box with Mk2 and saturnine reiterated, but confirmed they're painted/themed around sallies and IW.
- a new edition is planned as a "tidy up" edition
- angron (mortal) to be the first HH plastic primarch
- plastic warhound has been made, it exists in GWhq but they can't work the finances out for it, I.e. production costs vs retail coats vs expected sales. It's apparently currently not at a price from the maths they're comfy selling it at
- FW want to be off resin in 4-5 years, he does himself point out the new characters sort of fly in the face of this though
Dudeface wrote: Unsure if we're up to date on valrak rumours but as of yesterday for HH:
Reiterates high confidence in these on his side:
- box with Mk2 and saturnine reiterated, but confirmed they're painted/themed around sallies and IW.
- a new edition is planned as a "tidy up" edition
- angron (mortal) to be the first HH plastic primarch
- plastic warhound has been made, it exists in GWhq but they can't work the finances out for it, I.e. production costs vs retail coats vs expected sales. It's apparently currently not at a price from the maths they're comfy selling it at
- FW want to be off resin in 4-5 years, he does himself point out the new characters sort of fly in the face of this though
Unless I misunderstood only the MK2 box is from his trusted source, the other stuff is from another one
2 years in, this would be about the right time for new edition rumours (right or wrong) to start if it's on the same release cycle. Given mechnicum will drop before next summer (which is neither a 40k nor an AoS year) then it might be a fair point to rebalance having the core of 3 factions done.
Dudeface wrote: Unsure if we're up to date on valrak rumours but as of yesterday for HH:
Reiterates high confidence in these on his side:
- box with Mk2 and saturnine reiterated, but confirmed they're painted/themed around sallies and IW.
- a new edition is planned as a "tidy up" edition
- angron (mortal) to be the first HH plastic primarch
- plastic warhound has been made, it exists in GWhq but they can't work the finances out for it, I.e. production costs vs retail coats vs expected sales. It's apparently currently not at a price from the maths they're comfy selling it at
- FW want to be off resin in 4-5 years, he does himself point out the new characters sort of fly in the face of this though
Unless I misunderstood only the MK2 box is from his trusted source, the other stuff is from another one
Possibly I had a hard time working out if he mean they were from the same place but less clear or a 2nd source.
- plastic warhound has been made, it exists in GWhq but they can't work the finances out for it, I.e. production costs vs retail coats vs expected sales. It's apparently currently not at a price from the maths they're comfy selling it at
This sounds like complete nonsense, what does "it exists" mean? The tools have been cut and they cast one up to stare at but after paying 99.9% of the costs of production up front they're afraid to start selling it?
Having it tooled, then “oh Noes it am too expensive” makes zero sense. Even if you released it and sold relatively few? The tooling isn’t that expensive, so it wouldn’t take long to recoup its production costs at all.
Tidy up would be good, but only if they released all armies at the same time. Having to wait 6 months to be able to play Custodes (and get rules for Sisters models that don't even exist, lol) is nonsense.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Having it tooled, then “oh Noes it am too expensive” makes zero sense.
Playing devil's advocate - they might just have the sprues worked out on the computer and gone "there's 3x the sprues of a monolith - can we charge 3x the price of a monolith (£350)"?
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Having it tooled, then “oh Noes it am too expensive” makes zero sense.
Playing devil's advocate - they might just have the sprues worked out on the computer and gone "there's 3x the sprues of a monolith - can we charge 3x the price of a monolith (£350)"?
But yeah, it fails the sniff test...
Yeah, depends on what is meant by 'existing'. If it's just digital files then sure, I'd believe it. If it exists physically, then I'd say it's a 3D print (which I believe they do as tests, so could see it). But zero chance they've tooled it and are now wondering if it's financially viable.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Having it tooled, then “oh Noes it am too expensive” makes zero sense.
Playing devil's advocate - they might just have the sprues worked out on the computer and gone "there's 3x the sprues of a monolith - can we charge 3x the price of a monolith (£350)"?
But yeah, it fails the sniff test...
That's what I took it to mean tbh, they have it, they can enter mass production but aren't sure how to market/sell atm.
Edit: Imagine if it comes out in a HH branded box and no 40k rules for example, as we know they don't like to do cross range releases.
Dudeface wrote: Given mechnicum will drop before next summer (which is neither a 40k nor an AoS year) then it might be a fair point to rebalance having the core of 3 factions done.
Those 3 factions where already done. Marines just got some new characters, Solar Auxilia the Sentinels and there's nothing new in the shown Mechanicum release. Just switching from resin to polystyrene for some units isn't exactly a reason for a new edition.
I hope they just tidy up, as the main problem in HH 2.0 is the excessive amount of special rules, weapons, armour and equipment you have to search for in several books. It wouldn't hurt them to create a maintained pdf in the download section for it. I mean, you still need the books for everything else.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Having it tooled, then “oh Noes it am too expensive” makes zero sense.
Playing devil's advocate - they might just have the sprues worked out on the computer and gone "there's 3x the sprues of a monolith - can we charge 3x the price of a monolith (£350)"?
But yeah, it fails the sniff test...
That's what I took it to mean tbh, they have it, they can enter mass production but aren't sure how to market/sell atm.
Edit: Imagine if it comes out in a HH branded box and no 40k rules for example, as we know they don't like to do cross range releases.
Frankly, it feels like a thing that was meant to happen ages ago. When the Skitarii codex dropped, there's a Warhound(and an Enginseer, who didn't appear in either book--they literally had to add the Enginseer and basic Servitors in via the Imperial Agents codex) in the opening art.
I wouldn't be shocked if the issue is they don't think it would be well-received getting released as something like the larger Knights, with different weapons locked to specific SKUs.
Those 3 factions where already done. Marines just got some new characters, Solar Auxilia the Sentinels and there's nothing new in the shown Mechanicum release. Just switching from resin to polystyrene for some units isn't exactly a reason for a new edition.
I hope they just tidy up, as the main problem in HH 2.0 is the excessive amount of special rules, weapons, armour and equipment you have to search for in several books. It wouldn't hurt them to create a maintained pdf in the download section for it. I mean, you still need the books for everything else.
Solar Auxilia didn't "just" get the Sentinels. They added the Lifeward section as well.
Oh I bet they've had the sprues laid out for years... hence this being a nothingburger. Either it's going to production or it's not, I can't see there being different substates of "not being in production" so meaningfully distinct they warrant leaking
On the Mk2 box, if that's from a different source, I look forward to it. More for the terminators than for the Mk2, albeit I also kinda expect that to actually be upscaled Cataphractii or Tartarus, not Saturnine.
Dudeface wrote: Given mechnicum will drop before next summer (which is neither a 40k nor an AoS year) then it might be a fair point to rebalance having the core of 3 factions done.
Those 3 factions where already done. Marines just got some new characters, Solar Auxilia the Sentinels and there's nothing new in the shown Mechanicum release. Just switching from resin to polystyrene for some units isn't exactly a reason for a new edition.
I hope they just tidy up, as the main problem in HH 2.0 is the excessive amount of special rules, weapons, armour and equipment you have to search for in several books. It wouldn't hurt them to create a maintained pdf in the download section for it. I mean, you still need the books for everything else.
I fully understand the factions were done from a rules writing perspective, but it's the optics and marketing that make the big change. They just blew open a game known commonly for being marines vs marines with new factions to people who didn't want to buy FW etc. this is a good time and platform for them to try and grab new players.
Unfortunately HH isn't getting GW's best and brightest assigned to its rules writing, so any new edition is at least as likely to get worse than better. From a marketing standpoint, it does make sense to release what is intended as a powerup for Auxilia and Mechanicum, but invalidating expensive hardcovers with something that might end up weaker is a big risk.
I’d suspect the full sheet also shows Sons of Horus, so those used to getting their transfers that way and not paying £22 for a pretty if of largely mixed usefulness continue to do so.
Those 3 factions where already done. Marines just got some new characters, Solar Auxilia the Sentinels and there's nothing new in the shown Mechanicum release. Just switching from resin to polystyrene for some units isn't exactly a reason for a new edition.
I hope they just tidy up, as the main problem in HH 2.0 is the excessive amount of special rules, weapons, armour and equipment you have to search for in several books. It wouldn't hurt them to create a maintained pdf in the download section for it. I mean, you still need the books for everything else.
Solar Auxilia didn't "just" get the Sentinels. They added the Lifeward section as well.
Ah yes. Though it's a 0-1 unit without own kit you build with leftover Legate Marshal parts or Auxilia commanders if you don't want to give them heavy void armour. It's like one of those kitbash units from the exemplary battles.
Dudeface wrote: Unsure if we're up to date on valrak rumours but as of yesterday for HH:
Reiterates high confidence in these on his side:
- box with Mk2 and saturnine reiterated, but confirmed they're painted/themed around sallies and IW.
- a new edition is planned as a "tidy up" edition
- angron (mortal) to be the first HH plastic primarch
- plastic warhound has been made, it exists in GWhq but they can't work the finances out for it, I.e. production costs vs retail coats vs expected sales. It's apparently currently not at a price from the maths they're comfy selling it at
- FW want to be off resin in 4-5 years, he does himself point out the new characters sort of fly in the face of this though
He said that he was very confident that the MK2 and Saturnine box existing was correct and that source is the very reliable one going back to the Black Templar release, but that the other rumours were from a different source.
I think the ones from the newer source are bunk. GW will barely get rid of Finecast in five years, never mind Specialist Games. They're still releasing new product!
I call BS on a new edition of HH that fast. Especially as "clean-up", when that's something that could be done with FAQs or some such.
That said, if it does turn out to be true, then I'd purely be into heresy for the modelling perspective. HH not having the chase-the-dragon edition release churn is part of the big appeal, and if that goes out the window then so do I.
Dudeface wrote: - a new edition is planned as a "tidy up" edition
I'm wondering if 'edition' is the wrong word here, and they mean a new box set to replace Age of Darkness with a slightly tweaked rulebook - mirroring how Necromunda does things?
Dudeface wrote: Again, they don't have a summer release lined up for next year unless it's either HH or KT.
A - That you know of.
B - Heresy is a specialist game (yes it is) and doesn't follow the main game cycles.
C - When specialist games do get updates, they are redoes of the rulebooks with FAQs in them or compendiums of the various gangs, warbands, or teams added since the initial release. HH doesn't have that because 90% of the releases are updates to old kits which already have the rules in the books we have. Outside of named characters, it would consist of re-releasing every single rulebook exactly the same except for Solar Aux which would get a whopping two units added.
So yes very much huffing paint if you think HH is getting a redo next year.
Sorry Gert, gonna have to disagree Heresy is a specialist game.
It has its own tab in the main game bit of the new Website, and has had waaaaay more releases in it short plastic life time than most specialist games.
Not on par with AoS or 40K I’ll grant you, but it is positioned as a core game overall.
If it's not 40k or AoS then it's specialist. TOW and MESBG are both "main" systems but they aren't the same as 40k or AoS, Heresy is the third of these.
That's also a pretty shaky foundation on which to validate the rumour that it's getting a new edition.
Maybe keywords/USRs all in the same section this tome?
I so hate flicking through the rulebook for a keyword rule, and fail to find it because it's in the faction book. (And v.v.)
Mind you, I was hoping HH wouldn't go into the 3 year cycle gap year with AoS and 40k. At least use that 3rd gap year to alternate between HH and ToW giving us at least 6 years with our books.
It has its own tab in the main game bit of the new Website, and has had waaaaay more releases in it short plastic life time than most specialist games.
Not on par with AoS or 40K I’ll grant you, but it is positioned as a core game overall.
"Specialist Game" isn't a label denoting that something is a secondary priority for GW. it's a label for games made by GW's Specialist Games studio, which are their b-studio. HH is SG's big game, and then there's all the smaller stuff, but it's not handled by the same crew (SG being essentially old FW but as they currently exist). the way the substudio handles things is different from the main studio
their B studio is AoS, it is rather their C studio
and yes they are doing things differently yet it is not the studio that decides on releases but the management
and we have had rumours that someone wants HH to be the 3rd big game next to 40k and AoS, as well as the question what 3 main games GW is doing to complete the 3 year cycle
HH should not be there, neither Lord of the Rings, while some have hoped it will be TOW (which is still a possibility)
yet having a year without big release is unlikely
Dudeface wrote: Again, they don't have a summer release lined up for next year unless it's either HH or KT.
A - That you know of.
B - Heresy is a specialist game (yes it is) and doesn't follow the main game cycles.
C - When specialist games do get updates, they are redoes of the rulebooks with FAQs in them or compendiums of the various gangs, warbands, or teams added since the initial release. HH doesn't have that because 90% of the releases are updates to old kits which already have the rules in the books we have. Outside of named characters, it would consist of re-releasing every single rulebook exactly the same except for Solar Aux which would get a whopping two units added.
So yes very much huffing paint if you think HH is getting a redo next year.
A - let me rephrase, they don't have either core game system having a big release next year which leads to:
B - unless you want to convince me that LotR deserves the spot, this is as good as their 3rd main game, or the largest specialist if you want to nitpick.
C - they can alternatively reword, include faqs and change some rules
If it's huffing paint to consider their 3rd biggest game being on the same 3 year release cycle as the 2 biggest, then consider me huffing.
Extra evidence, they're farming out campaign books with characters. What did both 40k and sigmar do in the last year of their respective editions? Campaign books and characters.
Am I considering it as a dead certainty? Not at all, but is it possible? Absolutely.
Dudeface wrote: Again, they don't have a summer release lined up for next year unless it's either HH or KT.
A - That you know of.
B - Heresy is a specialist game (yes it is) and doesn't follow the main game cycles.
C - When specialist games do get updates, they are redoes of the rulebooks with FAQs in them or compendiums of the various gangs, warbands, or teams added since the initial release. HH doesn't have that because 90% of the releases are updates to old kits which already have the rules in the books we have. Outside of named characters, it would consist of re-releasing every single rulebook exactly the same except for Solar Aux which would get a whopping two units added.
So yes very much huffing paint if you think HH is getting a redo next year.
A - let me rephrase, they don't have either core game system having a big release next year which leads to:
B - unless you want to convince me that LotR deserves the spot, this is as good as their 3rd main game, or the largest specialist if you want to nitpick.
C - they can alternatively reword, include faqs and change some rules
If it's huffing paint to consider their 3rd biggest game being on the same 3 year release cycle as the 2 biggest, then consider me huffing.
Extra evidence, they're farming out campaign books with characters. What did both 40k and sigmar do in the last year of their respective editions? Campaign books and characters.
Am I considering it as a dead certainty? Not at all, but is it possible? Absolutely.
morganfreeman wrote: I call BS on a new edition of HH that fast. Especially as "clean-up", when that's something that could be done with FAQs or some such.
That said, if it does turn out to be true, then I'd purely be into heresy for the modelling perspective. HH not having the chase-the-dragon edition release churn is part of the big appeal, and if that goes out the window then so do I.
I'm with you on that. For all of the clunkiness of the HH books, it is great to only have a few places to look for rules and units. And to know that what you've built won't be invalidated in 6 months. We have to hope that GW knows that this is a big part of HH's appeal, and that introducing WH40k-style rules/codex churn would likely alienate a lot of people.
A - let me rephrase, they don't have either core game system having a big release next year which leads to:
B - unless you want to convince me that LotR deserves the spot, this is as good as their 3rd main game, or the largest specialist if you want to nitpick.
C - they can alternatively reword, include faqs and change some rules
If it's huffing paint to consider their 3rd biggest game being on the same 3 year release cycle as the 2 biggest, then consider me huffing.
A - It leads to nothing. You are making a massive assumption based on a rumour from Valrak who AFAIK is about 50/50 on these sorts of things.
B - The largest specialist is still a specialist. None of the side games follow the three year cycle in the same way as AoS or 40k. Every single one is also much much smaller in terms of game scale than HH, LI and TOW, with only MESBG coming close. A few gangs or warbands a year is all that is needed and these are all new and get compiled in a new compendium every so often. HH has had a grand total of two generic units added to one army since the rules all got released and everything else is characters, updates to older kits or filling out units that have yet to receive kits.
C - GW may waste time but redoing every book just to include FAQs isn't going to be on the cards. This isn't like HH1 where they had to compile every single unit released from Betrayal to Tempest for close to 6 armies. The rules are already there and nothing has really been added that needs to be put in a Liber book.
Extra evidence, they're farming out campaign books with characters. What did both 40k and sigmar do in the last year of their respective editions? Campaign books and characters.
This is a weird choice of words when three campaign books have come out in the space of three years. Compare that to Psychic Awakening or Broken Realms where it was 9 in a year and 6 in a year and your point don't exactly hold too much weight.
The books released for HH follow the same path as the Black Books of HH1 and are not even remotely similar to the 40k or AoS ones, and not just because you can use them to beat someone to death.
Am I considering it as a dead certainty? Not at all, but is it possible? Absolutely.
It's also possible that HH will be sent into the sun. Anything is possible and if we're going there then we might as well give up now.
Some of these are a bit weird, and the whole concept is a bit odd when HH already has so much focus on the Legions. How does Fenris support Solar Auxilia cohorts and the Space Wolves, for example? It would be bled white as a low-population feral death world.
It also seems weird to go for Calibanite Jaegers and Hussars. I would have called the latter something more in keeping with Jaegers, like Reiters.
Fenris still has a large population and the Kaerls aren't something new, this is just a HH version of them.
Also, the Legion Overseer from the Beta Garmon book allows you to take either Auxilia Sections or Militia Infantry in a Legion list ergo suggesting schemes that would fit with the Legions.
BrookM wrote: Would've loved to see more non-Astartes aligned examples.
They said it's in the works, but it might not be until another campaign book. They still have another batch of Legiones Auxilia to hit up.
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Gert wrote: Fenris still has a large population and the Kaerls aren't something new, this is just a HH version of them.
Also, the Legion Overseer from the Beta Garmon book allows you to take either Auxilia Sections or Militia Infantry in a Legion list ergo suggesting schemes that would fit with the Legions.
I mean the Overseer works, but so does the whole Legiones Auxilia bit.
It also seems weird to go for Calibanite Jaegers and Hussars. I would have called the latter something more in keeping with Jaegers, like Reiters.
Hussars are used in German armies too, light cavalry troops. Lots of countries used them, including the UK.
Yeah, its a common loanword (I think from Magyar initially). But it isn't stylistically the same as jaeger in the way a German cavalry term would be. I think reiter would be a better option, and even uhlan (Lithuanian origin) sounds stylistically more similar than hussar.
Haighus wrote: How does Fenris support Solar Auxilia cohorts and the Space Wolves, for example? It would be bled white as a low-population feral death world.
Easy: Asaheim. Fenris has one continent and it’s huge. It’s also full of mountains that are in turn full of tunnels and halls while the surface is covered in fast-growing¹ forests that feed some frankly ridiculous wildlife, such as enormous elk that make moose look like they aren’t trying. There’s plenty of room and food up there to support a population of a few million humans with technological support, more if you cram them in like a Hive World (the Fang alone is bigger than Hive Primus on Necromunda and that has an estimated population of about ten billion) but we’re pretty sure they don’t.
That population could easily support a regiment or two, and since it’s a Legion Homeworld the Imperial bureaucracy doesn’t get to say how many or when those regiments are founded.
¹ they grow stupid-fast during the summer when the sky burns but then go dormant and basically freeze solid for the other 21 months of the fenrisian year.
Remember that the entire ecology of Fenris is pretty certainly engineered by Golden Age science, for the benefit of the colonists.
Gert wrote: Fenris still has a large population and the Kaerls aren't something new, this is just a HH version of them.
Fenris has a large population? How big are we talking? Its a horrific death world.
There is a clear difference in population impact between Chapter serfs and PDF who will tend to suffer little attrition most of the time, and tithing 120,000 strong cohorts of a world's youth never to return.
Well article also mentions fief worlds (fiefdoms) so it can be assumed you don't necessarily have to be from Legion homeworld to be part of it.
The Fenrisian Kaerls share a home world with their patron Legion, the Space Wolves, but the pattern is also used by cohorts inducted from other VI Legion fief worlds, including those from Lucan. Veteran Kaerls are elevated to the ‘Aettguard’ and afforded the honour of guarding the Fang, the fortress of the Legion. Kaerls wear undersuits of dun brown and armour panels of blue-grey.
Haighus wrote: Fenris has a large population? How big are we talking? Its a horrific death world.
There is a clear difference in population impact between Chapter serfs and PDF who will tend to suffer little attrition most of the time, and tithing 120,000 strong cohorts of a world's youth never to return.
You're going off the assumption that the Fenrisian Auxilia are anywhere near that size. It does also make it very clear that they are recruited from the other worlds under the fief of the Wolves.
The Fenrisian Kaerls share a home world with their patron Legion, the Space Wolves, but the pattern is also used by cohorts inducted from other VI Legion fief worlds, including those from Lucan.
lord_blackfang wrote: Unfortunately HH isn't getting GW's best and brightest assigned to its rules writing, so any new edition is at least as likely to get worse than better. From a marketing standpoint, it does make sense to release what is intended as a powerup for Auxilia and Mechanicum, but invalidating expensive hardcovers with something that might end up weaker is a big risk.
If GW's best and brightest are the ones who've been turning out 40K and AoS in recent years, I'd strongly dispute describing that state of affairs as "unfortunate". Keep them well clear, I rather like being able to select wargear.
That said, I won't be buying all those big hardcovers over again after a couple of years for the sake of a few tweaks that they could easily just stick in the Errata PDFs. The current ones look nice enough on my bookshelves to fulfil that role, and everyone I play with are comfortable with, ahem, alternative arrangements for rules procurement so I'll be setting sail if GW are planning to stick HH on a 3 year cycle.
Haighus wrote: Fenris has a large population? How big are we talking? Its a horrific death world.
There is a clear difference in population impact between Chapter serfs and PDF who will tend to suffer little attrition most of the time, and tithing 120,000 strong cohorts of a world's youth never to return.
You're going off the assumption that the Fenrisian Auxilia are anywhere near that size. It does also make it very clear that they are recruited from the other worlds under the fief of the Wolves.
The Fenrisian Kaerls share a home world with their patron Legion, the Space Wolves, but the pattern is also used by cohorts inducted from other VI Legion fief worlds, including those from Lucan.
It makes it very clear that "the pattern" is recruited from other fief worlds. The setence suggests they aren't "Fenrisian" kaerls though, and would probably be Lucan kaerls etc. which doesn't change the basic point that Fenris itself has never seemed like a world that can support much recruitment.
120,000 is the standardised strength of Auxilia cohorts in the late Crusade. Earlier regiments were 5,300 strong, but these aren't referred to as cohorts. The Solar Auxilia is much more standardised than the rest of the Imperial Army or the later Imperial Guard, so it is reasonable to assume that kaerl cohorts conform to this.
I suppose they could be very uncommon compared to other, more populous worlds.
If GW's best and brightest are the ones who've been turning out 40K and AoS in recent years, I'd strongly dispute describing that state of affairs as "unfortunate". Keep them well clear, I rather like being able to select wargear.
I, uh, well...
Fair
Which is the well-managed GW game? I keep thinking there is one but I can't remember.
If GW's best and brightest are the ones who've been turning out 40K and AoS in recent years, I'd strongly dispute describing that state of affairs as "unfortunate". Keep them well clear, I rather like being able to select wargear.
I, uh, well...
Fair
Which is the well-managed GW game? I keep thinking there is one but I can't remember.
well the rules for Middle Earth seem to have been left reasonably well alone, even if the model range is somewhat dubious
I'm terrified by how plain that looks, I'd expect a NL player to use a bit more. Either kitbash with some chaos marines/raptors or at least add some more pouches, flayed skins, etc.
Well, the point is probably to show how the command sprues looks with the assault marine set.
Personally I love the "plain" look. My understanding of Horus Hersey is that there was big chunks of ordinary grunts, and just a precious few elite units with flavourcrafted gear.
ScarletRose wrote: I'm terrified by how plain that looks, I'd expect a NL player to use a bit more. Either kitbash with some chaos marines/raptors or at least add some more pouches, flayed skins, etc.
Lord Damocles wrote: I don't get it. They're just assault dudes with command dudes heads and arms.
Its to hype up the command squad sprue.... and of course to hide the fact that the melee weapons would have been a perfect fit in the command squad kit in the first place.
Fayric wrote: Well, the point is probably to show how the command sprues looks with the assault marine set.
Personally I love the "plain" look. My understanding of Horus Hersey is that there was big chunks of ordinary grunts, and just a precious few elite units with flavourcrafted gear.
A policy that make me loose most games.
you had a lot less guys with handcrafted unique armor, at least. plenty of Elite units but they tended to use the standard armor and weapons, with either some exotic specialty weapon or distinct skills separating them out from the common troopers. even the 'artificer armor' stuff tended to be a lot more standardized.
Most legions still recruited a small number of Terrans by the end of the Great Crusade, IIRC. Definitely the minority of recruits by that point though.
What an absolutely deplorable command decal sheet. The fact that for some bizarre reason, they insist on putting Fists and Sons decals on every decal sheet, rather then just making them all entirely generic boggles the mind. They could have filled that sheet with so many good generic bits and pieces and provided players with all the iconography they'd ever need. But instead we get a sheet with a paltry 1/5 generic decals (and uninspired at that!) and the rest is made up of stuff that's largely only usable by 4 of the 18 Legions.
One would have thought that that's what the actual LEGION DECAL SHEETS were for...
lord_blackfang wrote: So with this being the Command squad sheet, the "corroboration" for the Mk2 Sallies vs IW box goes back down to 0.
Not necessarily, the fact Salamanders and Iron Warriors are on there together with Sons of Horus and Imperial Fists does imply they are raised to the same level as the latter two which are the main two for HH2.0.
Since the rumour talks about a VS box it shouldn't be a Battlegroup like the MKIII/SA/Mechanicum boxes as those where single faction boxes and instead sounds more like the original Age of Darkness box that is the core set for this edition. Since we also there is also the rumour about a new edition (which might not be an actual "new" edition and just a 2.5 rules update) it would make sense if this "Age of Darkness" like box turns out to be a new starter for the 2.5 edition. And since Salamanders/Iron Warriors would be the main factions for that box and in turn that edition, that would raise them to the same importance as IF/SoH which in turn brings us back to the decal sheet that depicts them as such.
Of course all of that is just rumours and speculation so could be nothing like the Raptors on the 40kSM sheet that didn't get any significance as far as I remember
What does and doesn't get put on a transfer sheet is anyone's guess.
The CSM transfers between 6th and 8th went from all the Legions plus two Renegade Chapters to non-God Legions ones and Thousand Sons. Why Thousand Sons? Who knows.
The latest Guard vehicle sheet has Tanith transfers, for a Regiment famed for only having infantry.
Fayric wrote: Well, the point is probably to show how the command sprues looks with the assault marine set.
Personally I love the "plain" look. My understanding of Horus Hersey is that there was big chunks of ordinary grunts, and just a precious few elite units with flavourcrafted gear.
A policy that make me loose most games.
you had a lot less guys with handcrafted unique armor, at least. plenty of Elite units but they tended to use the standard armor and weapons, with either some exotic specialty weapon or distinct skills separating them out from the common troopers. even the 'artificer armor' stuff tended to be a lot more standardized.
I'm also given to understand that even by the time of the Siege of Terra the bulk of the Traitors hadn't yet devolved into full-on overt Chaos worship. Certainly most of the Primarchs had, and the Word Bearers are an obvious exception, but I'm guessing your average Legionnaire wasn't yet sculpting his armor with demon faces...
Eh, it depends. The Word Bearers, Sons of Horus, World Eaters, Emperors Children and Death Guard were all corrupted by this point.
The Night Lords, well they were all kinds of messed up even before the Heresy.
The Thousand Sons were stronger than ever after casting off what little remained in terms of repression of their power but weren't coating themselves in Tzeentchian icons.
The Iron Warriors were the only Legion left "uncorrupted" and this played a major role in Perturabo quiting the Siege with the majority of his Legion.
Even the Titan Legions and Knight Houses allied to Horus had largely been corrupted with many Daemon Titans now among their ranks.
There were very few among the Sons that weren't showing signs of Chaos worship and corruption with most joining the Siege of Cthonia in a last ditch attempt to return the Legion to its roots.
Were they 40k levels of CSM? Not massively but if you were to mix and match the new HH plastics with the Legionnaries kit you could very easily represent the Sons and Word Bearers of the Siege quite accurately.
The difference between pre-heresy, loyalist, and traitor Night Lords is measured not in the presence or absence of flayed children's faces decorating their armor, but the quantity.
lord_blackfang wrote: So with this being the Command squad sheet, the "corroboration" for the Mk2 Sallies vs IW box goes back down to 0.
Not necessarily, the fact Salamanders and Iron Warriors are on there together with Sons of Horus and Imperial Fists does imply they are raised to the same level as the latter two which are the main two for HH2.0.
Since the rumour talks about a VS box it shouldn't be a Battlegroup like the MKIII/SA/Mechanicum boxes as those where single faction boxes and instead sounds more like the original Age of Darkness box that is the core set for this edition.
Since we also there is also the rumour about a new edition (which might not be an actual "new" edition and just a 2.5 rules update) it would make sense if this "Age of Darkness" like box turns out to be a new starter for the 2.5 edition.
And since Salamanders/Iron Warriors would be the main factions for that box and in turn that edition, that would raise them to the same importance as IF/SoH which in turn brings us back to the decal sheet that depicts them as such.
Of course all of that is just rumours and speculation so could be nothing like the Raptors on the 40kSM sheet that didn't get any significance as far as I remember
I doubt it's just a coincidence that they chose to include Salamanders and Iron Warriors on the sheet. I'm more inclined to believe these rumors now, i'm less keen on a whole new edition though. I was kinda hoping HH would avoid the 3 year churn especially due to the cost of the books. But if plastic mk II ends up being a thing i'll be pretty thrilled.
If GW's best and brightest are the ones who've been turning out 40K and AoS in recent years, I'd strongly dispute describing that state of affairs as "unfortunate". Keep them well clear, I rather like being able to select wargear.
I, uh, well...
Fair
Which is the well-managed GW game? I keep thinking there is one but I can't remember.
well the rules for Middle Earth seem to have been left reasonably well alone, even if the model range is somewhat dubious
It's funny that this conversation happened on the week the previewed an absolute nonsense new rule in MESBG.
Baragash wrote: It's funny that this conversation happened on the week the previewed an absolute nonsense new rule in MESBG.
It's a hilarious rule and I look forward to seeing many zany situations it throws up. I keenly await the chance to gank Galadrial and steal her mirror.
But also, it's a special rule that a singular character has that in all probability won't make all THAT much of a difference in the grand scheme of things because anyone with a piece of special wargear you actually want is probably going to be outside of the ability of the orc in question's ability to readily kill.
Considering it's a rule totally dependent on your opponent's roster, it might be disruptive in a game here or there, but I don't see it taking over the "meta". If there's anything tournament tryhards hate, it's uncertainty.
Eww. They want $85 dollarydoos for those new characters. Piss off.
I am a recent convert to the FWHH characters. The quality is really good. But the price for this stuff in Australasia is brutal. I will be moving back there at some point; I do wonder if I will be able to afford this hobby at that time. Mind you, it's not as if I don't already have enough of their stuff to last a lifetime...
Snrub wrote: What an absolutely deplorable command decal sheet. The fact that for some bizarre reason, they insist on putting Fists and Sons decals on every decal sheet, rather then just making them all entirely generic boggles the mind. They could have filled that sheet with so many good generic bits and pieces and provided players with all the iconography they'd ever need. But instead we get a sheet with a paltry 1/5 generic decals (and uninspired at that!) and the rest is made up of stuff that's largely only usable by 4 of the 18 Legions.
One would have thought that that's what the actual LEGION DECAL SHEETS were for...
My two HH armies are Imperial Fists and Sons of Horus. I have more decals for each than I can shake a superfluous powersword at. In fact, I prefer 3D iconography that I order from PopGoes the Monkey.
I don't get the fierce hatred towards competitive gaming.
I can understand bemoaning if everyone at your game store wants to be tournament-level and you'd prefer a more chill time, but tournaments existing is completely fine, as are competitive players.
People who play with a competitive attitude shout the loudest about things they don't like and are the most active in online discussions.
They are also the ones most likely to dump thousands on new stuff after rules changes which in turn leads to the belief that the various rules teams are instructed to shake up the "meta" every so often to maximise sales.
A Guard player with a Tanith-themed army isn't going to drop £180 on new Dorn tanks but a competitive player looking to win tournaments will if the Dorn becomes a top-tier game winner and will spend another £200 when a few months later another previously sub-par unit gets buffed up.
A lot of the core of Heresy is largely made up of people who prefer to play with narrative-themed armies or armies that they built when five Mk4 dudes cost £30 and you waited until you could spend £250 on FW to get free shipping.
It was a very casual side of 40k and people don't like it when their casual fun turns nasty because people want to argue about "meta picks".
There were also obnoxious personalities in the competitive scene. A very, very vocal minority, but man were they vocal.
Self proclaimed “elite” gamers. Dubious rules lawyers who figured if you lied often enough it would become the truth.
My Way Is The Only Way types, who proudly proclaimed if you weren’t also meta gaming and bringing the beardiest, cheesiest list you could, you were insulting them personally.
And that coloured views of the Tourny Scene. Certainly I was put off going with my daft, but sometimes powerful, lists, because I had absolutely no desire to pay good money just to be matched against such a “delightful” opponent.
Scenario/Narrative play is where it's at, and asymmetric battles are way, way more fun then the modern competitive style of ol' line-em-up-and-shoot unless you're hiding behind the mirror-imaged 90 degree paintball wall.
I personally don't even like points values considering the random-dominant nature of 30k (and most dice-based wargaming in general) and the fact that points values are static and not relative - the ol' example of "why does an anti-tank weapon cost the same points when fielded against an army of nothing but infantry (so has little value) as when fielded against an army of nothing but tanks (so has great value)" - but I understand there's a shared delusion/fiction of points being a "balancing" factor.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: There were also obnoxious personalities in the competitive scene. A very, very vocal minority, but man were they vocal.
Self proclaimed “elite” gamers. Dubious rules lawyers who figured if you lied often enough it would become the truth.
My Way Is The Only Way types, who proudly proclaimed if you weren’t also meta gaming and bringing the beardiest, cheesiest list you could, you were insulting them personally.
And that coloured views of the Tourny Scene. Certainly I was put off going with my daft, but sometimes powerful, lists, because I had absolutely no desire to pay good money just to be matched against such a “delightful” opponent.
Good thing most of them have moved onto politics Joke....maybe
Local Group had strong attendance for another system and started a tournament. The "Elite Gamers" came in and ruined it for the ones who wanted to sit and chill with the others. I don't think the group has gotten together again in the year since it happened. Interest was wiped out. Unlike above, one guy would borrow models (unpainted) to proxy for other models that neither had. We were pretty laid back about stuff, but we all tried to have painted armies for the tournament since it was being photographed and recorded to try and drum up more players.
Eww. They want $85 dollarydoos for those new characters. Piss off.
lord_blackfang wrote: If there's anything tournament tryhards hate, it's uncertainty.
Yeah but feth those guys. They're the group of players we should be listening to least of all.
Sorry casuals, but the competition WILL continue.
Yup, right on the road to hell. Please, please downshift and step on the gas to Speed up the process!!!
The massive chip on the shoulder the anti-competitive vein of the hobby shares is so glaring and revealing.
Nope it's more of a doomsday cult thing for me...I don't want to see 40k end up as a glorified Magic The Gathering with cards you need to assemble amd paint.
But if 40k is gonna die I'd rather it be faster than a slow tortured death(which is what the try-hards are doing to it)
HH does need some balance touches (dreadnoughts, lascannons, blast weapons) but overall can we keep the competitive vs casual and financial topics out of this one?
Do we think that the Magos shown off is going to be fixed to the conversion beamer and other gun as a kit, will it come with a couple other options, or will it be fixed but compatible with a myrmadon secutor/destructor kit for the weapon mounts?
MajorWesJanson wrote: HH does need some balance touches (dreadnoughts, lascannons, blast weapons) but overall can we keep the competitive vs casual and financial topics out of this one?
Agreed - let's stick to news and rumours, and limit the competitive/narrative debate to the occasional sour comment.
Thargrim wrote: I doubt it's just a coincidence that they chose to include Salamanders and Iron Warriors on the sheet. I'm more inclined to believe these rumors now, i'm less keen on a whole new edition though. I was kinda hoping HH would avoid the 3 year churn especially due to the cost of the books. But if plastic mk II ends up being a thing i'll be pretty thrilled.
It makes zero sense in setting, though. Salamanders were so completely trashed in HH to the point they became completely irrelevant and when Vulkan took a trip to Terra during siege no one noticed Salamanders were even there, so low were their numbers. And now you're telling me they would be fighting the biggest traitor legion? What? Is the battle like 500 Iron Warriors lining up to shoot at a single Salamander? Because it's how realistically would look like. Do Salamanders even have any battles of note in the whole HH that weren't them just being sidekicks in one of the shattered legions forces?
You might want to look this one up because no, just no And that's without even considering the name pronunciation, unit tactics, gear, and uniforms that were copied all over Europe during Napoleonic wars were pretty much 100% Polish...
My understanding is uhlans originated as Lithuanian Tatar cavalry and entered Poland via the Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth. Not sure why that is problematic here. Poland played a big part in popularising the unit type.
I wonder if Salamanders and Iron Warriors were chosen not for fluff reasons but because they both can stand out in model showcases/ advertising. Iron Warriors have the hazard stripes and silver vs the solid colors of sons of horus. Salamanders are green vs yellow imperial fists. Loyalists also have the issue that ultramarines are posters for 40k, ba, wolves, dark Angels also have codexes. Raven guard and Iron hands are hard to tell apart at a distance. White Scars are hard to paint white.
Since MkII armor is more associated with the Great Crusade / early Heresy, the mentioned box could also be set in an earlier stage of the Heresy. Isstvan V would make sense for both Sallies and Iron Warriors if the rumor comes true.
Sooo... Thralls and Thallaxi are sold out. Some other kits too, as expected - and of course no one will buy a resin Triaros after the preview. But now the remaining two Ordinati?
I doubt they were best-sellers, but they're in the Liber Mechanicum... On the other hand, I actually own an Ordinatus. But it's the Sagittar, that they just scrapped without even Legacy rules for HH 2.0.
They'll stay because they're the LoW options. The Legion stuff from FW has been largely replaced by plastic but anything not replaced is still there to buy.
Dryaktylus wrote: Sooo... Thralls and Thallaxi are sold out. Some other kits too, as expected - and of course no one will buy a resin Triaros after the preview. But now the remaining two Ordinati?
I doubt they were best-sellers, but they're in the Liber Mechanicum... On the other hand, I actually own an Ordinatus. But it's the Sagittar, that they just scrapped without even Legacy rules for HH 2.0.
To be fair to the Sagittar, in games with decent people it is just a Ulator but with the gun rules from the Nemesis Volcano cannon instead of the sonic disruptor.
Perhaps he came from a warp fissure from 41 millenium to warn humanity to get over itself and just tell the girl its likes from sports practice that it thinks she's really swell? this said perhaps kall based the primaris suits on a now forgotten sub-mark of power armour lost after the crusade...
motheroflies wrote: Perhaps he came from a warp fissure from 41 millenium to warn humanity to get over itself and just tell the girl its likes from sports practice that it thinks she's really swell? this said perhaps kall based the primaris suits on a now forgotten sub-mark of power armour lost after the crusade...
Thargrim wrote: I doubt it's just a coincidence that they chose to include Salamanders and Iron Warriors on the sheet. I'm more inclined to believe these rumors now, i'm less keen on a whole new edition though. I was kinda hoping HH would avoid the 3 year churn especially due to the cost of the books. But if plastic mk II ends up being a thing i'll be pretty thrilled.
It makes zero sense in setting, though. Salamanders were so completely trashed in HH to the point they became completely irrelevant and when Vulkan took a trip to Terra during siege no one noticed Salamanders were even there, so low were their numbers. And now you're telling me they would be fighting the biggest traitor legion? What? Is the battle like 500 Iron Warriors lining up to shoot at a single Salamander? Because it's how realistically would look like. Do Salamanders even have any battles of note in the whole HH that weren't them just being sidekicks in one of the shattered legions forces?
Perhaps of note is the Foricaan Campaign, mentioned only in the Siege of Cthonia book:
A loyalist fleet of reconstituted fragments of the Salamanders and Iron Hands arrive in the Foricaan System, having abandoned any hope of breaking the traitor blockade of Terra. The loyalists found the system under the control of the Iron Warriors, who were scouring it of resources. However the Iron Warriors were now largely distracted by the imminent Siege of Terra, and their stronghold on Foricaan III was more lightly defended. The loyalists thus struck first, penetrating Foricaan III's orbital defenses by using their fleet led by the Iron Hands Battle Barge Asteronia to run a gauntlet of fire. Due to the automated nature of the orbital defenses, the Iron Hands and Salamanders were able to rapidly make planetfall and establish a beachhead.
Initially, the loyalists encountered little resistance, and the Iron Warriors resorted to setting their own fuel depots ablaze to deny them to the Salamanders and Iron Hands. It also served to shield his forces and create a barrier of pyroclastic hell in order to stall the loyalist advance. Nonetheless, the vengeful sons of Vulkan and Ferrus Manus launched an armored spearhead across a hundred-kilometer wide front, engaging in a brutal and costly battle against the fixed Iron Warriors defenses.
In the tumult of Horus' defeat at Terra, the fate of the Foricaan was forgotten. Whatever side claimed victory there had so few survivors left that it was deemed irrelevant. No banners of either allegiance remained on the world by the time the last fuel depot finally burnt out.
Struck me that this might be a set up for this box. The three legions are conspicuously under-supported in character terms, so a box themed around it would set things up for subsequent FW releases, too.
So I may have missed this here, but am I to understand that the only weapon option that is missing from the Castellax kit (based on the description) is the Siege Wrecker? A single arm? The most attractive weapon option rules-wise?
JNAProductions wrote: I don't get the fierce hatred towards competitive gaming.
I can understand bemoaning if everyone at your game store wants to be tournament-level and you'd prefer a more chill time, but tournaments existing is completely fine, as are competitive players.
I've had some bad experiences with these folks. Winning > friendly. The, "I didn't come here to make friends!" bros.
JNAProductions wrote: I don't get the fierce hatred towards competitive gaming.
I can understand bemoaning if everyone at your game store wants to be tournament-level and you'd prefer a more chill time, but tournaments existing is completely fine, as are competitive players.
I've had some bad experiences with these folks. Winning > friendly. The, "I didn't come here to make friends!" bros.
Pro Tip: YOU CAN DO BOTH.
Many can and do do both (I said do do, heh). But for me? The turn off is the “Play 2 Win” type do exist, and I don’t much fancy paying money to take part in a weekend and run into even one of them.