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Goverments can ally all they want.

But if aliens come here it's not native americans vs europeans. It's lone ant vs navy seal soldier and even that is too generous.

If they come here technological advanle is silly big. Just for starters they have in essence infinite power generatron at high output. They could boil and melt this planet just by sheer energy output.

Mankind best hope they are curious enough and that we aren't in way of their goal. As if they want to kill us we don't have tools to stop it.

And this is why we DON'T visit Earth!

Those humans are freaking nuts-violent! Seriously they think that we'd spend billions building spaceships and travelling the universe just to arrive and irradiate the world at the end with fire and destruction.



Though seriously I have had a thought as of late that perhaps other ecosystems on other worlds evolved differently to the Earth. Our ecosystem very much has a predatory element to it. One thing consumes another to survive; with an underlay of plants and other critters that generate their own energy from photosynthesis (and other processes) whilst only consuming mineral content.


So perhaps there are many worlds where live is more "plant" like. Where they aren't competing for resources by consumption and the Earth is a "red" listed world. A hotbed of violence and danger that's just best avoided because such species as arise from those worlds are known to have hyper-violent potential as a result of evolving to consume others.

The thing is, though, that predation makes a lot of sense, evolutionarily... it's always going to be more efficient to have another organism do the hard work of extracting nutrients and then eating them. It's faaaar more efficient, even accounting for the effort of catching and killing.

Even the bottom of the ocean, where organisms eat sulphides and the like, have predators.

It is kinda hard to make generalizations about evolution though, seeing as that we only have evolution on Earth as an example.

We can extrapolate by assuming the conditions on other worlds are similar to those on Earth, but if they aren't, then we are just completely in the dark.

Actually it makes far more sense that we would receive AI probes than necessarily biological lifeforms.

I mean we're going to Alpha Centari with probes in 20 years.

 Overread wrote:

I think one other thing that rears its head as abnormal is if we know there are aliens or if there have been found crashed ships and such - why have we seen zero tech advance from that? If the governments really did have alien tech and we assume that to cross the gulf of space the Aliens would be considerably more advanced than us; where is the tech that derives from that?

We've never seen a government release any machine or device that defies current scientific thinking; or which is so far ahead of everyone else that you can't even conceive how they got there. There's no massive leap happening.
Which is what you'd fully expect unless you have something like the MIB supressing everything.

Sure, assuming they've figured anything out & could replicate it.

 Overread wrote:
Also if there really are aliens and the USA really does know about them - can we really believe that Trump wouldn't have tweeted everyone within about 5-10seconds of being shown the secret documents. Or are we also having shadow-governments and shadow-militaries and Pyramids with eyes on the top?
Once you start to consider the multiple layers of secrecy required and the interconnected relations you start to head down the rabbithole of a lot of other conspiracies to support one conspiracy.

Do you really think whoever was holding that info would've shared it with Trump?
You don't need a shadow Govt, just a few people with common sense saying "Yeah, let's just not tell him...."

Few people as in loads. It would not be known just for few people and we only need 1 trumpist, of which about 30% america is, to spill beans.

That's why moonlandings fake theories fail. If it was it would have leaked by now. Too many know and all won't hold silent.

Hell somebody would sneak out evidence as is. Not just to trump but public. That sort of thing can't be kept secret forever.

tneva82 wrote:
Few people as in loads. It would not be known just for few people and we only need 1 trumpist, of which about 30% america is, to spill beans.

That's why moonlandings fake theories fail. If it was it would have leaked by now. Too many know and all won't hold silent.

Also give the Space Race, if it was easily proven fake as various people with no understanding of physics and the mission itself would claim, surely the Russians of the day would’ve been laying into it from the get go?

Oh yea that too but didn't bring that as it's less relevant to secret leaking out inside.

But yea best conspirasists can do on that is secret goverment that governs world and us&soviet(and every other country) were just faking the cold war(while being secretly joint country in secrecy). Lol. Just imagine scale of people that would need to keep silent to do something like that...

But that wouldn't really apply here. One can assume if 1 goverment has evidence others have too but then they don't have motivation to expose other as such.

My favourite one was that someone did an analysis of how much it would cost to fake the moon landings and then hush it up. Reckoned it would cost 2-3 times what the actual moon landing s cost…

The thing about aliens...if the government did have evidence of aliens...why would they cover it up?

Do they think it would cause a panic? Western governments have been manufacturing fear for the last 100 years (the commies, the jihadis, the russians, etc). Tangible evidence of aliens would let them leverage MORE control over the populace, and more pork barrel stuff to line their pockets (alien invasion bunkers aren't cheap). The government only tries to cover up its misdeeds, everything else is an opportunity to seize more power/control.

And, they'd devote far more time and money to space based weapons. We can't even mount a serious defense against planet killer asteroids, something we know for a fact is possible. But if you knew aliens were real and were visiting Earth, you'd think you'd weaponize orbit ASAP (under the cover of anti-asteroid defense).

Honestly I sometimes think the government is pushing the UFO theories to distract the weaponized autism crowd from real issues (mismanagement, corruption) that they couldn't easily dismiss.

Well we are working on anti-asteroid protections

(and did manage to alter asteroid course)

Sorry that I'm late to the party, I'd just like to point out that it is a known, verifiable fact that the Soviets used UFO sightings to convince otherwise patriotic Americans to spy on military bases and publish the photos of what they saw.

I happened to be in college when the Wall came down and for a while there was a whole genre of "KGB officials tell all for fame and also a paycheck capable of buying their family food."

If you think about it, the idea was actually brilliant: convince people that major US test sites are actually harboring space aliens. Carefully "leak" fakes picture showing that "OMG, they have landed in Russia, too!" I don't know if anyone remembers, but "Secret Soviet UFO Films" were a thing.

But it was always a put-on. The Soviets could easily provide covert funding for the various newsletters where "experts" compared their findings and of course the Reds were happy to have a corps of unpaid free-lance photographers roaming around without any possible hint of Communist sympathies.

One of the ex-officials even spoke to a class I attended ("History of Cold War Espionage" was an awesome elective if there ever was one!) and was quite droll about the whole thing. I've still got his book lying around on a shelf somewhere.

tneva82 wrote:
Well we are working on anti-asteroid protections

(and did manage to alter asteroid course)

Yes, I know, but supposedly all this alien stuff started in the 1950's, and only now we're actually getting a little bit serious about anti-asteroid tech. If the gov't knew about aliens, it's the perfect cover for anti-alien weapons in space. Same thing with tech to scan the solar system for spacecraft (...err...asteroids!); not much effort and money has gone into it, relatively speaking.

People tend to anthropomorphize extraterrestrials regardless of whether or not they "believe"

No aliens, magic, vampires - it really is a dull universe.

Oh above and beyond all this I predict we'll discover life beyond earth somewhere between now and 2033.

 Adeptekon wrote:
Oh above and beyond all this I predict we'll discover life beyond earth somewhere between now and 2033.

Yeah some microscopic bugs somewhere.....not exactly exciting

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Adeptekon wrote:
Oh above and beyond all this I predict we'll discover life beyond earth somewhere between now and 2033.

Yeah some microscopic bugs somewhere.....not exactly exciting

Wait how do you know? You were holding out on everyone this whole time?

 Adeptekon wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Adeptekon wrote:
Oh above and beyond all this I predict we'll discover life beyond earth somewhere between now and 2033.

Yeah some microscopic bugs somewhere.....not exactly exciting

Wait how do you know? You were holding out on everyone this whole time?

I donlt think many people will care honestly about such a discovery

Complex life is complex life though. More so if it’s extraterrestrial in origin.

Can’t wait to see “Dr” Kent Hovind and his little goblin Matt Powell deal with that one.

 Mr Morden wrote:
No aliens, magic, vampires - it really is a dull universe.

Not really. Universe is full of interesting unknowns even without fairytales.

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Adeptekon wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Adeptekon wrote:
Oh above and beyond all this I predict we'll discover life beyond earth somewhere between now and 2033.

Yeah some microscopic bugs somewhere.....not exactly exciting

Wait how do you know? You were holding out on everyone this whole time?

I donlt think many people will care honestly about such a discovery

Right, but if you don't tell us, we spend all our time speculating and seeing things.

tneva82 wrote:
Well we are working on anti-asteroid protections

(and did manage to alter asteroid course)

Well yes, we're working on it on a shoestring budget.

Imagine what would be done if half the U.S. military budget was diverted to cover the threat.

Sounds grifty to me, especially because I have a book of reasons not to believe in anything Nasa ever released.

But doesn't a very large amount of the computing technology that you're using right now rely on stuff NASA researched, produced and said

Yes. But conspiracy theorists ignore those.

Complaining about tracking chips goverment installs while carrying phones(aka super effective spy tracking devices) around you exposing more data about you any chip could

 Overread wrote:
But doesn't a very large amount of the computing technology that you're using right now rely on stuff NASA researched, produced and said

Besides stuff like GPS, sattelite-based weather reporting and forecasting, satellite imaging of the earths surface and so on things like the popular .mp3 file format are the result of various space programs, and let's not even get started about material sciences and related fields.

 Leopold Helveine wrote:
Sounds grifty to me, especially because I have a book of reasons not to believe in anything Nasa ever released.

Trouble there? Anyone can write and publish a book. Absolutely anyone. A scientific paper however is the work of months, years, perhaps decades, and unlike some conspiracy book? Subject to Peer Review, where others in the field actively try to debunk or find a flaw in the methodology.

We see this in the conspirasphere, where one can simply claim to be an expert. Sure, you may have a Doctorate. But if that Doctorate is in say, Geology, that by no means qualifies you as an expert in evolutionary biology. And those who fall for such nonsense are seemingly too busy desperately trying to debunk established science, they never stop to question their own source.

Quote mining, removing important contextual qualifiers, video editing to have the answers given to questions jumbled into an order which suits the conspiracy, misrepresenting scientific papers, the Gish Gallop in debates. Even just saying “nuh-uh”. God of the Gaps fallacy (even where one isn’t claiming “therefore God”, but some other oddity). Presenting a false dichotomy (only you or I are right, there is no middle ground or other hypothesis), word salad. They all play their role in promoting utter bunkum.

As I think I said earlier in this thread, a large part of the problem comes from Laymen expecting ever more complex and niche areas of scientific research to be easily surmised in relatively plain language, when that’s not necessarily possible. And when it’s not really possible? That’s where the Woo Peddler walks up with unearned confidence, offering an outrageously poor but easily worded alternative.

Couple of examples? Fair warning these are quite long “debates” featuring Professor Dave. First is against a Flat Earther, the other against a Creationist. He also has one against a specifically Young Earth Creationist, but given that bloke is a convicted tax cheat and wife beater, I don’t want to give him the oxygen of publicity.







If you can spare the time, they’re enjoyable, if often times frustrating, debates. You’ll see the tactics I mentioned above used by the conspiracy theorists.

Tsagualsa wrote:

 Overread wrote:
But doesn't a very large amount of the computing technology that you're using right now rely on stuff NASA researched, produced and said

Besides stuff like GPS, sattelite-based weather reporting and forecasting, satellite imaging of the earths surface and so on things like the popular .mp3 file format are the result of various space programs, and let's not even get started about material sciences and related fields.

Yeah What have the Romans ever done for us