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GW's primary focus is on selling models for battles, so they don't give much thought to logistics. I think there were some board games back in the day that had rules for supply, so the designers were aware of it.

I think it is clear that orks do have a logistics system capable of supporting massive operations, but I think it is also true that those in charge of it are somewhat resentful about being kept away from the fighting. This allows savvy opponents to target ork logistics, which are likely more vulnerable to disruption.

(Warboss Grab'nlug Thrakazug of the Deffskullz punches Chrispy out, takes over keyboard)
Oi! Wot's vis den? Yoo oomies iz all gobbin like we's oll Blood Axes or sumfing! We's gonna take yer stuff, an dat's oll dere iz ta it!
(Marches off in a huff, Chrispy gets back up in dazed state)

Okay, first: Ow!
Second, Orks in all their forms are basically the stand-ins for Viking raiders (Horned helmets, drinking, fighting, etc) and one thing I learned in Archeology is Vikings were very efficient when it came to moving around. To the point they don't leave much trash laying around to show they were there! Found the New World and need building supplies? you have a boat- which is timber and nails. Not liking the area? Your house was a boat at one time, and so can be again.
So it stands to reason Orks would have their usual "Brutal kunnin" when it comes to resources. Like the fact grotz and snotties are not only baseline workers, but food as well. Any tool can and will be a weapon in ork hands (Really would like to see after market bitz of spanner wrench choppas). The scrapjet dragsta is the best example: Jet won't fly anymore? Put wheels on it!
One of the reasons I really like the Orks is this very resourcefulness. Where none of us would think to put a rocket on a pole for a hammer, the Orks can and do use it. And in real life, that would be extremely stupid; but because it's them- it works, is what it comes down to.

Hope you're recovering from that hit, man, an ork is mean

Really, I think ork logistics CAN be disrupted realtivly easily because they'll use conventional means, can be easily drawn to a fight even if they're not supposed to get involved, and well, it is not beyond logic that any ork kept away to help runthreds oversee it will take advantage. That just too sad that Boss Bonecracka won't get that pile of ammo, right, but you know what, I'll take care of his Boyz once his dead.

However, you rightly point out how adaptable their means of transportation would be. And I think we'll all agree: no terrain, no environment will ever prevent the ORKS from finding a way to ferry their stuff around. That goes into the ork advantage of being able to thrive anywhere.

Of course, this is all part of what makes Orks such a great part of the background.

In terms of overseers for Grots and other slaves? It’s quite possibly Yoofs and Old Orks put in charge whilst there’s a battle on, as part of a rites of passage and passing on Da Old Wayz.

Plus I dare say there’ll always be a number of Boyz hurt badly enough that whilst they will recuperate, it’s gonna take a bit before they’re fully combat ready. Kicking Grots around is probably a better use of such Boyz than just lounging around,

You say this as if being amputated of both legs would be hurt enough to stay away from a good brawl. Silly umie!

Yet while I don't think the lore mentiened those hurt boyz you talk about, logic dictates that yes, the boss will probably have then shuffle stuff around rather than lose his (limited) patience waiting for them to hop their way forward on one foot.

Found this snippet whilst going through the Sanctus Reach lore:


Grot carts confirmed! In this case, large ones towed by killa kans. I think this is further evidence that Ork slavers/runtherds are the backbone of Ork logistics in the same way Meks are the backbone of Ork industry (albeit hordes of grots get forced to do the heavy lifting!).

Killa kans being used as salvage gear to tear out useful loot and transport heavy loads is also interesting. Makes them a sort of equivalent to Sentinel powerlifters.

Loving this thread! Never given much thought to this aspect before, its giving me heaps of modelling ideas.. Perhaps I'll still do an Ork warband at some point, with plenty of this logistics side represented.. Especially love the idea of an "ammo shop on wheels" supplying the army on the tabletop

Oh that's cool. This is truly one of those great topic that help you dive in crunchy details of the lore and that's so sweet!

I was about to propose deffdread lifters but killa kans are more apt because an ork in a 3 meters killing machine armed to the teef probably won't listen to "get that crate over there and put it in the truck".

However, meks dont fear technology, and I wonder: are there instances of ork robots? Like full, true robots?

In which case I'll bet they would do some to take care of stupidly annoying stuff like moving crates around.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 tauist wrote:
Loving this thread! Never given much thought to this aspect before, its giving me heaps of modelling ideas.. Perhaps I'll still do an Ork warband at some point, with plenty of this logistics side represented.. Especially love the idea of an "ammo shop on wheels" supplying the army on the tabletop

Such an original theme!

Actually, in one of our campaigns, I housruled an Imperial guard's signals regiment, which had extra rules in game to call down artillery/air supports, and provide order bonuses at longer ranges, while getting equipment restrictions.

There were Runtbots, and Tinboyz, but they didn’t make it through to 2nd Ed.

Runtbots were simple automata for protecting Runts, armed with a pair of double barrelled grenade launchers. Oh, and a force field.

Tinboyz were proper combat automata, built in mocking effigy of Squats, Eldar and Marines.

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Tinboyz

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Runtbot



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 tauist wrote:
Loving this thread! Never given much thought to this aspect before, its giving me heaps of modelling ideas.. Perhaps I'll still do an Ork warband at some point, with plenty of this logistics side represented.. Especially love the idea of an "ammo shop on wheels" supplying the army on the tabletop

Hear me out.

Grots. On bicycles. With ammo in the front basket and draped around their weedy shoulders. Like a stereotypical French Onion Seller that I’m not entirely convinced ever actually existed in real life.

I loved how in previous editions, the Big Mek for the Deathskulls could wound a vehicle while he repaired another. Basically, just sending da boyz over for spare parts. I really hope w/e the Ork codex comes out they'll put in the clan roolz. I chose Deathskulls in 3rd not only for the blue paint scheme, but because of the looted vehicles (which I know got a bit overpowered, but are YOU going to keep an ork from a Basilisk gun?).

And squigs. Don't forget the squigs- which do pretty much anything, from food, to ammo, to any number of things. I think the amount of beetle species is only slightly smaller than squig species.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
There were Runtbots, and Tinboyz, but they didn’t make it through to 2nd Ed.

Runtbots were simple automata for protecting Runts, armed with a pair of double barrelled grenade launchers. Oh, and a force field.

Tinboyz were proper combat automata, built in mocking effigy of Squats, Eldar and Marines.

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Tinboyz

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Runtbot



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 tauist wrote:
Loving this thread! Never given much thought to this aspect before, its giving me heaps of modelling ideas.. Perhaps I'll still do an Ork warband at some point, with plenty of this logistics side represented.. Especially love the idea of an "ammo shop on wheels" supplying the army on the tabletop

Hear me out.

Grots. On bicycles. With ammo in the front basket and draped around their weedy shoulders. Like a stereotypical French Onion Seller that I’m not entirely convinced ever actually existed in real life.

A yeah actually I read about it, thanks for reminding me. I don't care this ceased to exist in the transition to 3rd edition, into my head canon you go.

The beauty of it all is that nothing stops you from mounting making the grot of your dream, let's get get to the workbench Doc!

I confirm I never ever in my life saw any onion seller on a bicycle btw

Ooh, tinboyz! How did I ever miss something this awesome?!

These had rules in Rogue Trader? I needs to find em..

And dok, as much as I like the idea of cycling grots, I'm not sure how to make models like that, whereas building a buggy or a trukk with a bunch of ammo crates on it is quite feasible and the bitz for such a thing easy to come by..

A-ha! Shoulda known they were in Ere We Go. Orks were propa ladz back then.. I mean, you cannot exactly field a Blood Axe warband consisting of a single crazed Boss kommandeering an army of beakie mocking tinboyz kontrolled by mekaniaks in 10th edition, now can you..

You could, as Mega Armour Proxies?

Really, if you play such an army against a soft fluff player like me, you'll have my go ahead for any violation of the detachments

Tinboyz are very cool!

Some more grot logistical work mentioned in Sanctur Reach- in this case ground krews resupplying Ork aircraft:


Grot carts again!

 Gert wrote:
I think people are confusing logistics with industry.

Industry the Orks do shockingly well. They can churn out guns, ammo, and vehicles at breakneck speeds and it (usually) works as intended. They have an entire genetic subspecies with a genius intellect that can create marvels of technology from the simplest of parts.

They don't however, have a capacity for logistics. There is no supply corps for the Orks and they don't have any storage facilities beyond "We put da gunz there and da Squigz there". At best any transports might be used for ferrying Loot and Gubbins back to whatever camp has been set up, if that original camp is even returned to in the first place.

Fair, though I'd still argue that orks, in the way they're written in wider fluff, probably have more logistical abilities than might be expected. As others have said, the larger a Waaagh! gets the more complex it becomes, even adopting large-scale production after a certain point. While ork boyz are unlikely to be able to carry out more complex tasks than your average Millwall fan, and you certainly couldn't base any kind of supply organisation on them, there are millions of Grots who can carry out these functions and a whole host of Runtherds to act as a kind of heavily-scarred managerial caste.

A point on Warbosses in particular - I think the way a lot of the fluff's written obviously emphasises their dull, brutish, "orky" sides, but there's also a lot of stuff (like others have posted) that suggests they tend to consider the finer details of conquest such as resupply etc. Their size and strength primarily makes them Da Boss, but there's also a helpfully large amount of kunnin' in it as well.

Granted, they're probably leaving it to the Meks and Runtherds to sort out "dat uvver stuff," but it doesn't mean they don't consider it. The best Oddboyz are worth a lot of teef, right? Stands to reason a Warboss looking for success would try and get the best he could, precisely so he doesn't *have* to think about these questions.

I've really enjoyed rereading Ere We Go, it sort of touches on the whole logistics side of things, with Death Skulls holding Orkshuns where all the bounty from a scrap is sold off to the highest bidder.. I'm getting slight Ferengi vibes from the Death Skulls clan now?

The picture this book draws is, Orks use teef and loot to cover most of their logistic challenges, Meks, docs and grots keep things going (and captured slaves too on larger capaigns). Recycling existing gear as much as possible. I especially love the way how their own casualties can be used as resources (loot their gear and teef for new stuff) hehehe!

Ork Teef are also explained as a self-sustaining economy.

Whilst the number of Boyz and thus Toof Donors is of course variable, the Teef themselves are biodegradable. The value of a given Toof is based on size and quality.

So even if you’ve hoarded Teef? They naturally decay, reducing in value compared to fresh Teef. This is described as helping manage inflation.

And of course as Ork Teef grow throughout their lives, no Ork is ever reduced to absolutely poverty for long, even if he’s not ‘ard enough to clobber someone else’s Teef out their gob.

Ah, yes, Teef as currency - probably not the most out-there bit of lore about the orks, depending on whether or not "it works because they think it does" is strictly canon or simply a way the Imperium tries to explain their weird technology, but it's gotta be up there!

Its weird that they even need a currency or economy.

If your ladz don't eat, they can't fight. If they don't have gunz, they can't fight. Orks don't do much that isn't fighting, so... yeah.

Having 'em be armed and fed is part of being a boss, and that's why you're raiding and getting grots and humies to make stuff, isn't it?

Trade is trade. Any fiat currency establishes stricter rules of commerce, and more readily agreed value.

Newer, shinier Teef carrying a higher intrinsic value than older, duller Teef ensures hoarded wealth impacts less than new wealth.

It also makes sense when individual Orks are exactly creative. They can bring scrap to a Mek, but can’t make that scrap into something themself.

Mek is recompensed for his time, even if all the raw materials were also part of the overall trade. The more Teef you give him, the more of his time (in theory) you’re obtaining, and so the bigger the shooter.

And as big snazzy guns and ‘uge Choppas are set and agreed marks of success, you have a well motivated workforce, each wanting to own the biggest and snazziest.

Some will even go and buy their own, and not just mug you for yours.

Because Orks develop society just like the other sentient races.
Just because Ork society is hyper-violent doesn't mean it isn't also intricate.

really, considering they're engineered so, safe to say they probably never stopped to think wait, if I make it so all of my boyz are particularly well fed and give them all the biggest weapons as I have, they'll be that deadly.

Plus while might is right, they're not a hivemind as the needs so they'll need ways to regulate and organise life between individuals.

Their individualistic nature tends to have them compete to become the next boss and try to get the best gear and dishes out there, so having got an economy means all of this is possible for everyone, from the grot to the boy to the boss.

But since orks' life is warfare, logisitcs and economy are entertwined.

Plus, as hoarded Teef inherently lose value, there’s incentive to actually spend yer Teef.

1,000,000 Teef today may only be worth 100,000 Teef in a year. But a Kustom Shoota worth 1,000,000 Teef is still gonna be worth 1,000,000. And if it’s duff, you can always beat up the Mek and get a refund.

Teef. A fixed commodity of a kind of fixed scarcity.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Plus, as hoarded Teef inherently lose value, there’s incentive to actually spend yer Teef.

Which is better that way because while orks probably would take some pride in a big fat hut with trophies and expensive shootas all over the wall, living lives of warfare shorten them to a point were hoarding makes no sense anyway. Not like the orks are affected by it though, as, again, they don't really seem to care about making plan for the future and putting stuff aside for a retirement fund.

We see the same thing in Mega Armour.

If you applied the Orky obsession with being ‘ard, their nobility cladding themself in ridiculous armour seems counterintuitive. But….it’s also a status symbol, a sign they acquired enough Teef, no doubt through beating things up, to buy the killiest and least practical of weapons.

Some want Mega Armour, some want a ded fast buggy, some want a Battle Fortress. What really matters is their signs of wealth, and therefore success on the battlefield. And if such showing off gets you in a ruck? A chance to literally show who’s Boss round here.

Yep! Really, orks are paradoxaly as free and indiviualistic as you can get in the version of the galaxy. And what to do with this sweet freedom? Brag and slap stuff obviously!

 Maréchal des Logis Walter wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Plus, as hoarded Teef inherently lose value, there’s incentive to actually spend yer Teef.

Which is better that way because while orks probably would take some pride in a big fat hut with trophies and expensive shootas all over the wall, living lives of warfare shorten them to a point were hoarding makes no sense anyway. Not like the orks are affected by it though, as, again, they don't really seem to care about making plan for the future and putting stuff aside for a retirement fund.

Orks have no children, so there's no estate to pass on.

While they have many advantages, they have crippling disadvantages, which are pretty well-known. Being warriors is great, but they will fight each other as easily as anyone else.

They have the ability to create remarkably ingenious machines and are capable of advanced the logistics, but these are undermined by the fact that no one wants to be in the supply train. While other races might have a tangle at an intersection or some congestions, I can easily see to ork supply trains trying to use the same crossroad fighting each other to the death just for the fun of it. Indeed, it would be very "orky" to have line units short on ammo fall back to "sort out" the mess and get caught up in it.

Naturally the ork who started it would be legendary, especially if he won. That the front line caved in would soon be forgotten, because everyone would love the story of the angry runtherder who ended up wrecking two columns and then routing the 'Ard Boyz sent to kick his butt.

That's another reason why I think their logistics would be entangled with economy.

We know their logistics, for lack of being strictly formalised, work because they apparently can fight wars that drag for years. So some orks are doing the job along with grots etc. To me those are the oddboyz, specialy mekboyz, and some Boyz or nobz probably left behind to check.

What can make all of those stay, and thus make the supply chain work? Fear of reprisal and reef. Lots of reef.

If supplying X warband amounts to selling stuff to them the meks are going to get rich, the nob will take some of the stuff for himself, and the runtherd a solid reef refund for the grots that got rolled over in the attempt.

However there's still no guarantee the orks will actually think that's worth it and your scenario is 100% orky

Orks do have a hereditary system though.

A mob is a kid of fixed family unit. Provided no Boyz step particularly out of line, they’re in that mob for life, under the direction and protection of the resident Nob (who is of course simply the biggest and ‘ardest of that lot).

When the Nob is killed (in combat, a challenge, amusing and completely anticipated exploding Bog trick, eaten by a Faceeater Squig), the successor typically comes from within the Mob itself, as a quick scrap settles the new pecking order.

At that point, the new Nob will claim the old one’s bits and gubbins. If the Mob was already suffering depredations and was under strength, they might simply be absorbed into another larger mob, who again will nick all the best gear for themselves, or at least their Nob.