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 ingtaer wrote:
The Imperial Armour book 8 was entirely about Imperium forces raiding an Ork held world to disrupt their logistics (including blowing up a fuel storage area) and assassinate their best Mek. Has some details into how an Ork Waagh functions logistically.

So this book, whilst focusing mainly on the Ork production facilities on Kastorel-Novem, does touch on Ork logistics to and from production areas in support of Waaagh! Garaghak.

Firstly, they acknowledge that Ork logistics operations exist, although do not go into any details about the "how" Orks achieve these. The Ork forces actually collected scrap from their holdings in the entire sector to deposit on Kastorel-Novem for processing into "finished" products, this clearly required some kind of spaceborne freight system. Secondly, Kastorel-Novem supplied the Ork frontline on Forsarr over an eight year conflict, again via spaceborne freight of sone kind. These worlds are interstellar, not in the same system.

I think Waaagh! Garaghak is a good example of the longevity of Ork incursions and shows that they are not typically a flash in the pan but are sustained operations applying pressure for a long time (unless defeated). Garaghak first attacked the Imperium in 936.M41, and was still at large and gearing up to attack Deliverance 63 years later in 999.M41. This is typical enough that it is apparently used as a training example by the Schola Progenium (Apocalypse rulebook 1st edition, pg. 129).

We see a very similar situation in Waaagh! Grax attacking the Ryza sector- the assault began in 925.M41 and Grax was not killed until the formation of the Great Rift in 999.M41. During this time, Grax attacked Ryza itself three times- I think this is particularly interesting because it shows that Ghazghull is not unique in being able to retain control if beaten back from a world. In the Ghazghull supplement, it mentions that the Imperium (except Yarrick) assumed that a defeated Warlord would lose too much reputation and be deposed, which they thought would finish off Ghazghull if he was not killed as thought on Armageddon during the Second War. Now we have examples of two Warlords known to have retained control following a loss. However, sometimes it must be true that adefeated-but-surviving Warlord gets taken out by a rival and either a new Warlord takes over or the Waaagh! falls into infighting.

Waaagh! Garaghak and Waaagh! Ghazghull provide some insight into the issue of maintaining compliance across an interstellar Ork domain. Essentially, the most-trusted Warbosses under the Warlord are entrusted with specific missions, such as hold this world or attack that planet- members from the same clan generally being trusted the most. Orks believe firmly in might-is-right, so suitably violent Warlords do seem able to instil loyalty in this way. So long as they maintain their reputation for victory and strength, others will continue to follow even if they get some crappier jobs. It also appears Warlords will occasionally do spot checks to make sure everything is going to plan and remind any upstarts who is really in charge, such as Garaghak visiting Kastorel-Novem after the raid. Ghazghull no longer needs to do this- he has gained the ability to telepathically communicate with his minion bosses. It appears that contigencies can also be put in place- Garaghak (a Goff), placed a Goff Warboss to watch over and guard his chief big mek on Kastorel-Novem whilst Garaghak was on Forsarr.

Another interesting episode is the Overfiend of Octarius sending a minion to put the nearby Garaghak in his place- Garaghak defeated the Warboss sent to overpower him and gained control over both forces. Here we see a major Warlord using a trusted lieutenant to knock out growing rivals- whilst this particular example failed, presumably this is a common tactic for busy Warlords.

We know Ork empires exist, the oldest known to the Imperium is Charadon, which has existed for thousands of years with a succession of Warlords. These apparently form when a Waaagh! runs out of steam but a strong Warlord holds the domain together as an empire regardless. Octarius is probably the most well-known, Jagga and Dregruk are other examples. The Ork codex (3rd edition) states these are operated in more of a feudalistic manner, which suggests Warbosses rule each world in the name of the top Warlord, and pay tribute to and fight for the Warlord when demanded. Otherwise, they are probably left to their own devices a lot of the time. Warlords commanding an Ork empire seem to occasionally create expeditionary fleets that go off and attack neighbouring areas, with new Warlords springing up in the resulting power vacuum- for example, the Overfiend of Octarius left with a huge force to join Waaagh! Ghazghull in attacking Armageddon during the Third war, with a new Overfiend appearing (this being the one attacked by and later killed by Hive fleet Leviathan). I suspect these expeditionary Waaaagh!s serve as safety valves to allow Ork empires to release a build-up of Orks before it boils over into infighting that could destroy the empire. They are interesting because the Octarius example shows that a large fighting strength can be left behind/replenish exceptionally rapidly with a credible force to hold off Leviathan just a year later.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Ork society does seem to follow quite strict patterns.

If isolated, you get what would be called Wildboyz and Ferals. Usually quite a low technological base, with a reliance on Squigs and Pigs, with Pigdoks being the first Oddboy to manifest.

But, as the tribe grows? Doks, Meks, Painboyz and Weirdboyz begin to manifest.

I am pretty confident runtherdz/slaverz also appear alongside pigdoks at the very beginning in the feral stage. Weirdboyz are another oddboy that appears early, in the feral stage before pigdoks differentiate into meks and doks, but probably after the first two become apparent in Ork society.

Oy, that's a good in depth analysis of this story. I just re listened to this told by aborder prince.

In the wake I also listen to his recording of shadow point, and I remarked the mentioning Ork launching platforms within the rocks they use in space combat. While poorly shielded and in relative disorder, it was similar to human ones.

They contained all necessary: loads of grit workers and fuel and ammunition. And, as befit the rugged Ork take on architecture, were built inside a litteral rock with minimum re-configuration of it.

I'll let Big Mek D answer that for you.

OI WOT KIND OF NONSENSE IZ DIS? TYPICAL HUMIE NONSENSE, MAKIN FINGS SO ZOGGIN COM-PLI-KATED

A MOB NEEDZ AMMO, THA NOB SENDZ IZ BEST GROTZ TO MI WORKSHOP WITH A BAG OF TEEF, DEN DA ZOGGIN RUNTS TAKE DA AMMO AND BRING IT BACK TO DA NOB.

My Digga-meter sensor just blew itself in pieces reading this

 Dekskull wrote:
I'll let Big Mek D answer that for you.

OI WOT KIND OF NONSENSE IZ DIS? TYPICAL HUMIE NONSENSE, MAKIN FINGS SO ZOGGIN COM-PLI-KATED

A MOB NEEDZ AMMO, THA NOB SENDZ IZ BEST GROTZ TO MI WORKSHOP WITH A BAG OF TEEF, DEN DA ZOGGIN RUNTS TAKE DA AMMO AND BRING IT BACK TO DA NOB.

I think the lesson is that ork logistics are somewhat alien to humans in the particulars, but also very linear and simple to understand. This would make them more vulnerable to disruption because I don't see orks as using a lot of misdirection, and their emphasis on doing stuff BIG would make it easy to detect and disrupt.

I don't see orks running staggered convoys at irregular intervals to avoid detection. I see them as running massive, smoking, engine-roaring supply trains as soon as they are full. There's not likely to be a regular schedule, but if ISR is able to determine when the next shipment will be ready, it could be struck with confidence.

I guess I'm going to show some partisanship here insofar as I think the Imperium is probably the most logistically capable of all the armies, and that's because supplying mass armies is the only way they can survive. They don't have quality, or agility, they have mass and they know how to sustain it.

Orks are good, but not as good, and savvy Imperial commanders will exploit this.

The trouble is, Orky logistics aren’t necessarily centralised.

Every settlement and sizeable warband will have its own Oddboyz. Yes the greater the concentration, the most troublesome their collective efforts will be.

And those convoys? They’ll be Warbands in their own right, and just as up for a fight as any other warband. Every buggy, trukk and wagon armed and armoured enough for combat.

That makes tricker to tackle than a regular supply column, because every Ork involved is Well Up For A Fight, and will have plenty ammo and fuel. Indeed I’d wager there are Mobs who prefer such duties, knowing that the enemy will be seeking such a convoy out, increasing the chances of…getting into a fight. And if you’re really lucky? You might just get to shoot a serious bit of Dakka on behalf of the Meks, or even better, Warboss.

Never underestimate the danger of engaging a sentient species entirely dedicated to getting into fights because fights are really fun!

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
The trouble is, Orky logistics aren’t necessarily centralised.

Every settlement and sizeable warband will have its own Oddboyz. Yes the greater the concentration, the most troublesome their collective efforts will be.

And those convoys? They’ll be Warbands in their own right, and just as up for a fight as any other warband. Every buggy, trukk and wagon armed and armoured enough for combat

Yes, but orks being pre-programmed (as it were) are going to operate in consistent, predictable ways. That's how instincts work.

Just as the various clans act the same way, so will the logistics. Crack the code and you win.

Your notion that ork supply chains tie down an inordinate amount of combat power so they can fight with each other at the drop of a hat (or would it be "droppa 'at"?) isn't an argument for efficiency. Where does this ammo and firepower come from? If the troops at the front are hard-pressed, having the rear echelon types take the cream of the crop is not a good thing.

I don’t think it’s so much “Convoys have the best gear,” but “Convoys are made up of giant, ridiculously tough killing machines that are all too happy to fight.”

 JNAProductions wrote:
I don’t think it’s so much “Convoys have the best gear,” but “Convoys are made up of giant, ridiculously tough killing machines that are all too happy to fight.”

Right, but that's like placing carrier strike groups on convoy duty. It's not an efficient use of combat power.

It also runs counter to ork culture. No warrior wants to be stuck herding grots and driving trukks, they want to be at the front bashing heads.

This is why I can see huge problems with the orks as frustrated rear-area commanders "sort out" priority at road junctions.

The orks may be ruthlessly efficient in resource extraction, but they're still football hooligans at heart. "What say we fight over this here ammo train? It may cook off, but it'll be brilliant if it does."

Commissar von Toussaint wrote:

Stepping outside the fluff for a second, the Ork evolution/biomechanics are also a massive bit of special pleading to allow a race with a chilly room temperature IQ to move through space and have advanced technology.

Even the brightest of the mad meks and weirdboys are actually pretty daft, they just know things. ...

While the particulars of this knowledge are unique to the orks (encoded in their genetic structure, evidently), we see even just on Earth, a huge variety of species that operate using advanced physics and math, but who don't actually understand physics or math. You have fish that can aim at prey across a water/air boundary (so their minds are taking into account the refraction of different media). You have species that navigate based on polarized light, or regional localized magnetic fields--without having any intellectual understanding of those things. You have insects with tiny, tiny minds that build complex structures in highly efficient and strong shapes, without any knowledge of engineering at all.

Now, if you take that idea of complex emergent behavior and ramp it up a bazillion times over, I can see Orks capable of warp travel without being able to consciously articulate precisely why that spinny bit is important.

To circle that back around to logistics, given that we 'know' that ork knowledge and technical skills are encoded in their genetic structure, and we know that they are bred/designed/created for war, it seems likely that every single ork, not just the oddboys, has some amount of inherent logistical behavior encoded within them. Not to the point where they discuss logistics, or appoint quartermasters, or jot down notes about the supply chain, but to where, like migrating birds, their behavior, entirely opaque to them adjusts to support logistical necessities.

Sure, there will be oddboys out there that can actually bend their brains around and look at that they do, and maybe even explain it, but the vast majority of orks will behave in ways to support logistical necessities without thinking about it--because they have to have been designed to do so.

To take this out a bit further (I love the spitballing here), the preponderance of particular klans in ork spores might even be in response to logistical necessities. If an area is naturally sparse of useful things like ammo and gubbins, more Snakebites (who might fight with a club and some bows and arrows) are born. If an area is resource rich, then a surplus of Bad Moons, whose abundant teef support resource management through a monetary economy are crawling out of the ground. If an area requires complex negotiations or subterfuge to obtain war materiel, then more Blood Axes might be in those spores. If a previously resource rich area has degraded, then the spores produce more Deathskulls to loot and repurpose expended resources. And if a previously resource rich area is rapidly becoming depleted, you may get more Goffs, who prefer close combat and who will expend less ammo and make use of more choppy bits, which do not become expended quite as fast.

(Heck, you might even get more Evil Suns in areas where fuel resources are more abundant than other mineral/metallogical resources, so they build relatively durable--in the sense that they don't get expended--vehicles to exploit the abundant fuel resources.).

The efficiency and durability of ork logistics should be enraging and opaque to Imperial strategists, because the orks themselves don't understand them. They are just bred to fight and win.

It would make for a funny ork story for an imperial to be taken by surpise by a complete change of ork tactics all because the orks ran out of some certain supply. The imperials prepare some dedicated anti tank unit to take some armored convoy coming their way. This army is later flanked from some unseen direction. It turns out the orks ran out of gas and decided to just get out and walk over the mountain. Maybe some lootas ripped out the big guns and just hoofed it.

That classic ork logic that is too alien and stupid to predict.

I think doc in right not in that the orks will create specific rear echelon units of elite Boyz, but because any boy at anytime is geared and eager to have a fight.

Because of this, even a warband tasked by da boss to ferry squig snacks and mega armour batteries and shoota slugs to his mega nobz up front will go with it's complement of armed to the teeth trucks, scared grot slaves, and try to make stunts as they drive to the front line hoping that once there they'll get entangled in the fight as well.

So, while Ork logistics columns would be way harder to attack up front because it's mobs are probably waiting for nothing else than you to come and get them, it's not out of particular training or organisation and more because of da Ork way.


However, judging by said lack of actual organisation and instead instinctive, stream like logistical routes, commissar is still right in a sense I think.

That the orks composing the column are able and ready to put out a fight does not mean that they can't be overwhelmed by a determined assault. It'll cost you men, but it would work. Second, if the orks haven't got a boss smart enough to mile in anti aircraft batteries inside the warbands, they'll be extremely vulnerable to air strafe raids. And finally, the fact the orks love fighting so much means you could litteraly bait the Ork logistics out of its tracks and have frontline units go low on complement.

I also 100% agree with the idea that while the imperium hasn't got the best technology, nor the best tactitians and strategists maybe, they sure as hell are probably the very best at sustaining logistics and troops. Not even a well organised force as the tau are as good due to lack of real warp or FTL travel.

Only exception being Tyranids, of course, but we're on another scale.

Oh, and yeah, it'd make for a damn good story. Why not write one, I'd eagerly give it a read

Commissar von Toussaint wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
The trouble is, Orky logistics aren’t necessarily centralised.

Every settlement and sizeable warband will have its own Oddboyz. Yes the greater the concentration, the most troublesome their collective efforts will be.

And those convoys? They’ll be Warbands in their own right, and just as up for a fight as any other warband. Every buggy, trukk and wagon armed and armoured enough for combat

Yes, but orks being pre-programmed (as it were) are going to operate in consistent, predictable ways. That's how instincts work.

Just as the various clans act the same way, so will the logistics. Crack the code and you win.

Your notion that ork supply chains tie down an inordinate amount of combat power so they can fight with each other at the drop of a hat (or would it be "droppa 'at"?) isn't an argument for efficiency. Where does this ammo and firepower come from? If the troops at the front are hard-pressed, having the rear echelon types take the cream of the crop is not a good thing.

I disagree. Orks absolutely have cunning on their side.

Sure, few will develop their skills much beyond instinct “get over dere an’ give dem sum boot levva”. But time and again we see reliance on Orks being predictable costing their foes victory. Roks, Tellyportas, Kommandos, and general sneakiness, not to mention utterly unique wonder weapons even the Mek isn’t sure about the purpose of all exist. And it only takes a Boss to force the others into being clever and sneaky.

Also, I’m not arguing Orky supply columns go well armed in combat ready vehicles to fight each other. They go well armed in combat ready vehicles, because all Orky vehicles are well armed and combat ready. Got a passenger seat? Bolt on a big shoota to keep them entertained. Boyz left back at camp to recuperate, during wartime, will be numerous. Orks heal well, not instantly. So there’d be plenty kicking about camp, ready to get back to the fighting. Ammo/supply convoy is going that way anyway, and has a high chance of attracting enemy attention, so hitching a ride? One way or another, you’re gonna get a fight out of it. Mobs out of favour with the Warboss may be ordered to stay behind initially. Mobs whos Trukk or Battlewagon was up on blocks when everyone else went off for a fight can be deployed in second and subsequent waves.

And that’s assuming the entire host, once mobilised, hasn’t adopted a nomadic approach.

Commissar von Toussaint wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:
I don’t think it’s so much “Convoys have the best gear,” but “Convoys are made up of giant, ridiculously tough killing machines that are all too happy to fight.”

Right, but that's like placing carrier strike groups on convoy duty. It's not an efficient use of combat power.

It also runs counter to ork culture. No warrior wants to be stuck herding grots and driving trukks, they want to be at the front bashing heads.

This is why I can see huge problems with the orks as frustrated rear-area commanders "sort out" priority at road junctions.

The orks may be ruthlessly efficient in resource extraction, but they're still football hooligans at heart. "What say we fight over this here ammo train? It may cook off, but it'll be brilliant if it does."

Commissar von Toussaint wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
The trouble is, Orky logistics aren’t necessarily centralised.

Every settlement and sizeable warband will have its own Oddboyz. Yes the greater the concentration, the most troublesome their collective efforts will be.

And those convoys? They’ll be Warbands in their own right, and just as up for a fight as any other warband. Every buggy, trukk and wagon armed and armoured enough for combat

Yes, but orks being pre-programmed (as it were) are going to operate in consistent, predictable ways. That's how instincts work.

Just as the various clans act the same way, so will the logistics. Crack the code and you win.

Your notion that ork supply chains tie down an inordinate amount of combat power so they can fight with each other at the drop of a hat (or would it be "droppa 'at"?) isn't an argument for efficiency. Where does this ammo and firepower come from? If the troops at the front are hard-pressed, having the rear echelon types take the cream of the crop is not a good thing.

I think that it is broadly correct that Ork supply chains are a weakness, but that doesn't mean that enemy forces can actually capitalise on that. You still need to be able to strike them with enough force. It is similar to the weakness Ork forces have to decapitation strikes- taking out the dominant warboss is very effective because Orks don't have a defined chain of comand where the second in command, third in command etc. can step in to take over. However, actually taking out the warlord is still tough because they are the hardest Ork around surrounded by their biggest lads with the best gear.

I also don't think Orks go for efficiency, because they are generally not lacking in numbers. They go for redundancy, so a lot of combat power will be in rear areas, and there will be a lot of convoys. All of these are quite thorny to attack and a good few can be lost before the front is likely to feel the impacts.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

And that’s assuming the entire host, once mobilised, hasn’t adopted a nomadic approach.

I get the impression nomadic Orks still rely on supply from other Orks settled in bases. More pastoral than nomadic.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Also, I’m not arguing Orky supply columns go well armed in combat ready vehicles to fight each other. They go well armed in combat ready vehicles, because all Orky vehicles are well armed and combat ready. Got a passenger seat? Bolt on a big shoota to keep them entertained. Boyz left back at camp to recuperate, during wartime, will be numerous. Orks heal well, not instantly. So there’d be plenty kicking about camp, ready to get back to the fighting. Ammo/supply convoy is going that way anyway, and has a high chance of attracting enemy attention, so hitching a ride? One way or another, you’re gonna get a fight out of it. Mobs out of favour with the Warboss may be ordered to stay behind initially. Mobs whos Trukk or Battlewagon was up on blocks when everyone else went off for a fight can be deployed in second and subsequent waves.

That still argues against efficient logistics, though. The big shoota takes of space and weight, as does the ammo for it. Every ounce of spikes, armor plate and gun mounts counts against bullets, biscuits and blankets.

By the way, I never said orks weren't cunning, merely that because their supply chain is hereditary/instinctive, they can't change it without full-on Lysenkoism taking hold.

Could orks go around a flank, or find a hidden supply route? Sure, but the infrastructure of what they do has to be consistent because it's essentially a racial trait.

A classic Imperial psy-op would be to have assassins write insulting message from rival clans on the trucks, provoking a massive brawl at the crossroads.

Commissar von Toussaint wrote:


A classic Imperial psy-op would be to have assassins write insulting message from rival clans on the trucks, provoking a massive brawl at the crossroads.

Oh yes, if it's not happened in canon lore yet, somebody please make it happen

 Maréchal des Logis Walter wrote:

Commissar von Toussaint wrote:


A classic Imperial psy-op would be to have assassins write insulting message from rival clans on the trucks, provoking a massive brawl at the crossroads.

Oh yes, if it's not happened in canon lore yet, somebody please make it happen

Sounds like something the Ordo Sabatorum would do.

I guess it could also work with petulant races like eldars and votann too though, or even humans too.. I mean, in the 40k Millenium apparently every one loses it's temper ober the slightest hint of a bad word.

 Haighus wrote:

 Maréchal des Logis Walter wrote:

Commissar von Toussaint wrote:


A classic Imperial psy-op would be to have assassins write insulting message from rival clans on the trucks, provoking a massive brawl at the crossroads.

Oh yes, if it's not happened in canon lore yet, somebody please make it happen

Sounds like something the Ordo Sabatorum would do.

Here- a canon example of the Ordo Sabatorum attempting to foster a known rivalry between warbosses to create a civil war. I don't think it worked based on these tribes having the same strengths by the end of the Season of Fire.

Nothing about Orks leads to efficiency. They are fractious, based on slave labour and have no real method of standardisation. I can't get my head around how the system would work with a race where the method of communication consists of grunts and blows to the head. How does a mek explain to the grots what shape the part or bullet needs to be? how does a lead mek comunicate what is needed to other meks under him, or working alongside?

Given the constant belligerence, how is there enough supervision to make sure the slave labour makes it all correctly.

As described above its plausible that their entire method of supply to the front relies on the front line troops basically in constant hot and deadly conflict with the supply structure to get the equipment and supplies to continue fighting the enemy.

The only answer really is that orks are literally a boiling mass of green flesh that provides so many bodies to do stuff, and replaces them so rapidly, that sheer unimaginable volume of creation enables the outer edges of the infestation to move in the direction of the enemy.

They have the backgrounds biggest plot armour, in that all of this is just assumed to work because they are a major player across the galaxy.

OP - Ork Logistics

Ork looks at reality and says no.

Thanks for the heads up haighus - always on point

Flinty, I feel you're somewhat to severe about the orks. Firstly because pretty much everyone has got plot armour (and also in my view Tau are by far the most insufferable in that regard I think ). But as we have lenghtily discussed above, reasons are plenty why it works still.

While the entire history of being engrained with all the knowledge they need prevents them from just being this (hopefully, because they'd be very boring) may sound like plot armour of sort, it leads to the other tidbitz of the lore being completly consistent. Their language is a lot less precise than other speices' but it is still al angague (they even had fun putting out a chart of glyphs after all!). An ork big enough can subjugate the other and make a cooperating force of them. Never forget, we're talking fantasy in space here. What matters is internal consistency and in universe logic, not realism. I mean, you've got literal magic around!

And even then, the plot armour is way less real because the issues of ork society simply prevent them from wiping out everybody else, because, in the end, not every ork boss depicted as having got the kunnin to actually succeed with his warfare and falls to these shortcomings you described. Granted, that's a good thing because otherwise again the setting would get boring.

Truly, I love ork lore because it is fun, consistant, and balanced all at once.

 Flinty wrote:
Nothing about Orks leads to efficiency. They are fractious, based on slave labour and have no real method of standardisation. I can't get my head around how the system would work with a race where the method of communication consists of grunts and blows to the head. How does a mek explain to the grots what shape the part or bullet needs to be? how does a lead mek comunicate what is needed to other meks under him, or working alongside?

Given the constant belligerence, how is there enough supervision to make sure the slave labour makes it all correctly.

As described above its plausible that their entire method of supply to the front relies on the front line troops basically in constant hot and deadly conflict with the supply structure to get the equipment and supplies to continue fighting the enemy.

The only answer really is that orks are literally a boiling mass of green flesh that provides so many bodies to do stuff, and replaces them so rapidly, that sheer unimaginable volume of creation enables the outer edges of the infestation to move in the direction of the enemy.

They have the backgrounds biggest plot armour, in that all of this is just assumed to work because they are a major player across the galaxy.

This is where the maligned, but still canon “works because they think it does” comes in.

Slugga, Shoota, Kannon, Mega Blasta and so on are catch all terms. Each describing a size and rate of fire rather than anything more specific.

There’s clearly something about a Mek’s know-word which ensures some level of commonality. Buggies having four wheels, Trukks needing space for Boyz.

It’s also described as a Mek not really know what it is they’re building, until it’s built. Which suggests the classification comes after the manufacturing. But, it also involves some kind of Blueprints.

Grots we know are smarter than Orks. So it’s entirely possible to view the entire process as the Mek as the idiot savant, but the Grots the ones with the actual “how does it go together and work” knowledge. Those interpreting the mad doodles of the Mek into some semblance of reality.

Plus we can’t rule out Oddboyz being naturally more intelligent than common or garden Orks, by dint of being Oddboyz. Thus capable of greater communication than just walloping someone.

Guess I’m reading Waaargh! The Orks tonight. I know, I know, it’s a dirty job but someone’s gotta do it. And for you, Dear Dakka? I’ll jump on that literary stikk bomm

Hey, might as well hop in and re read it again too!

Meks are definitly smarter than the rest, they seem to be often the éminences grises of the ork stories.

 Maréchal des Logis Walter wrote:
Flinty, I feel you're somewhat to severe about the orks. Firstly because pretty much everyone has got plot armour (and also in my view Tau are by far the most insufferable in that regard I think).

No, that's a fact. Tau are insufferable. I refuse to accept them. In my edition, there aren't any, and I like it that way.

But I also think he's more right than wrong. The sheer idiocy of the orks argues against any kind of reliable organization and the attempts to rationalize something by lining up all the books and spraying them with warm beer until the oracle speaks doesn't work for me.

It is canon that orks work slaves to death. Neat. So who replaces them? More slaves? What happens when you run out? It's a snake living off of its tail, and while orks can doggedly hang in there as well as anyone (and seemingly have less qualms about cannibalism than the tyranids), there is a breaking point and that's why orks are the dandelions of the galaxy - they're hard to eradicate completely, but in small quantities, pose no threat to the integrity of your lawn.

Problem with logistics is it has the word "logic" in there (I know, delete some letters!) and orks do not have any. heck, just look what calling their tech support get you:

 TheChrispyOne wrote:

Problem with logistics is it has the word "logic" in there (I know, delete some letters!) and orks do not have any. heck, just look what calling their tech support get you:

Yes. "Hit it with a hammer. Hit it harder. Get a bigger hammer. Okay, it's broke."

Commissar von Toussaint wrote:

Yes. "Hit it with a hammer. Hit it harder. Get a bigger hammer. Okay, it's broke."

Eh, Mechanicus isn't doing much better:
From "The rights of Awakening"
Depresseth the red rune.
Wait for sounds of the machine spirit.
If none, enact ancient chant: "Bugger it!"
Anointed thy console with a swift, deft stroke of manipulator.
Depresseth the rune again.

Commissar von Toussaint wrote:

 Maréchal des Logis Walter wrote:
Flinty, I feel you're somewhat to severe about the orks. Firstly because pretty much everyone has got plot armour (and also in my view Tau are by far the most insufferable in that regard I think).

No, that's a fact. Tau are insufferable. I refuse to accept them. In my edition, there aren't any, and I like it that way.

But I also think he's more right than wrong. The sheer idiocy of the orks argues against any kind of reliable organization and the attempts to rationalize something by lining up all the books and spraying them with warm beer until the oracle speaks doesn't work for me.

It is canon that orks work slaves to death. Neat. So who replaces them? More slaves? What happens when you run out? It's a snake living off of its tail, and while orks can doggedly hang in there as well as anyone (and seemingly have less qualms about cannibalism than the tyranids), there is a breaking point and that's why orks are the dandelions of the galaxy - they're hard to eradicate completely, but in small quantities, pose no threat to the integrity of your lawn.

United in tau hate

In fact, you summarise it quite aptly but remember: the big stories we get is when the orks actually are able to unit and thus through the force of this unity of purpose, bashing over the head of relectant elements, and expression of their genetically engrained abilities, they become a force to be reckon with.

But these orks are the 1% percent. Most Ork settlements won't ever go bigger than a few tribes doing Stunts on bikes and trying to kick their neighbours.

In that regard I think Ork lore is balanced: they have great potential, but the condition to actually harness it demand rare and powerful circonstances and leaders.

By the way that video is excellent

Waaagh! is very much not the norm for Orks.

In the modern era, it’s mostly Ghaz getting everyone properly riled up, and making Orks such a unified threat. Tribes which otherwise wouldn’t have been caught up, have been, and so the Waaagh! grow.

Historically we see this occur periodically, indeed the reason Orks took a back seat during the Really Terrific Fight that was the Heresy, was their back had been broken on Ullanor, a conflict so apocalyptic it seems any Warboss of any standing got all killed to death with their lads.

Had the Heresy not occurred? It’s entirely possible a unified Imperium could eliminate any nascent Waaagh! before it became overly troublesome.

But it did. And that lead to The War of the Beast.

And now Ghaz,

But without a Waaagh!? Orks are typically happy to just beat up and fight whatever or whomever happens to be nearby. Which might make it sound tempting to nip in a bomb such a planet or attack before the Ork population reaches a critical mass. Except….that’s one of the ways the unwary can trigger a Waaagh!. Giving Orks are a really good punch up riles them up. And if it’s a really, really big fight? More Orks will arrive, fancying a bit of the action. And before you know it, you’ve lost that war, and now have some incredibly overexcited Orks looking for the next Really Good Fight.