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Charax wrote:
Eh, it happens. Ordering direct is only ever a last resort anyway these days. After LGS discounts the rise should be even more negligible

I mean... yes, but you realize that a price increase will also affect the discounted prices, yeah?

 frankelee wrote:
lol, I don't know if a team economic PhDs are needed to examine GW's prices. They're really high, they're getting really higher. Most products don't have a yearly price hike to match inflation because it doesn't really work that way. XD

I mean yes it does. RPI is literally a measure of the price increase of most consumer products over the past year. That's literally what inflation is.

But as long as we're on the topic, I do wonder how this will work if we go from economic boomtime to recession and high unemployment. If your luxury item prices are still relatively high when a lot of people have a lot of pocket money, what are they when people have significantly less? Or when nerdy hobbies have a downturn in popularity and it becomes cool to play football and drive fast cars?

Generally speaking during recessions spending on recreation to be done at home goes up, not down, as people don't go out drinking as much and want something to do. Pay TV subscriptions, sales of home gym equipment etc go up during recessions, not down.

You know, Kromlech just lowered their prices on 1200 items... Admittedly more often than not it's just 1-2€ but still, it's the same margin GW is upping their prices... Wonder if Grotz yet again will receive the highest increase after they went from 14€ to 20€ or some such last time..

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Worth pointing out that within the UK (where GW is based), inflation is at 3.2% at the time of typing. This time last year? 10.10%.

So price rises are never welcome, but we can’t exclude GW from how the overall economic background works.

Funny you mention that... should we take that into account all the previous years where that wasn't the case, and they raised prices above inflation?

Well they need to increase profit, and they can't increase sales because production already can't keep up with demand, so raising prices is the only out, really. Until they increase capacity we honestly should expect it every fiscal unit, half a year for GW I think?

 Snrub wrote:

* In Sweden and Norway, the average price change will be between 8% and 14%.

What did the Swedes and Nords(?) do to deserves such a paddling?

Eurosong

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Well they need to increase profit, and they can't increase sales because production already can't keep up with demand, so raising prices is the only out, really. Until they increase capacity we honestly should expect it every fiscal unit, half a year for GW I think

Also, it's tradition!

 The Phazer wrote:

Generally speaking during recessions spending on recreation to be done at home goes up, not down, as people don't go out drinking as much and want something to do. Pay TV subscriptions, sales of home gym equipment etc go up during recessions, not down.

I think the point was GW is moving towards high end spenders and further away from tv subscriptions or dumbbell prices...

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Worth pointing out that within the UK (where GW is based), inflation is at 3.2% at the time of typing. This time last year? 10.10%.

So price rises are never welcome, but we can’t exclude GW from how the overall economic background works.

There's no rule that says you have to raise your prices at least in line with inflation, it's just a helpful excuse. If anything, raising prices simply because you can is what causes inflation to get out of control.

Midnightdeathblade wrote:

Charax wrote:
Eh, it happens. Ordering direct is only ever a last resort anyway these days. After LGS discounts the rise should be even more negligible

Don't just sweep this under the rug cause you can get a discount elsewhere. 3-5% increase every year for the last 3+ years is pretty much negating this discount.

So what's the alternative? Complain about it on a forum?

I've been through countless price rises in my decades in the hobby. Complaining doesn't work, threatening to boycott doesn't work, writing letters doesn't work, burning your armies doesn't work. nothing works. GW will always raise prices.

You know what works? Finding coping strategies works. Using discounts works. Using non-GW minis works. 3D printing works. Buying second hand works.

I've raged at previous price rises (several of them) and it benefits nobody except those who enjoy being angry, so this time I'm just not buying stuff from GW wherever possible.

Albertorius wrote:

Charax wrote:
Eh, it happens. Ordering direct is only ever a last resort anyway these days. After LGS discounts the rise should be even more negligible

I mean... yes, but you realize that a price increase will also affect the discounted prices, yeah?

Well gee, I'm no expert but d'ya think that might have been why I said "the rise will be negligible", rather than "there will be no rise at all"?

Charax wrote:


I've been through countless price rises in my decades in the hobby. Complaining doesn't work, threatening to boycott doesn't work, writing letters doesn't work, burning your armies doesn't work. nothing works. GW will always raise prices.

You know what works? Finding coping strategies works. Using discounts works. Using non-GW minis works. 3D printing works. Buying second hand works.

I've raged at previous price rises (several of them) and it benefits nobody except those who enjoy being angry, so this time I'm just not buying stuff from GW wherever possible.

I would suggest don't stress out and try not to think too much about it and carry on doing what you love doing. Buy the minis you like, just in less quantity.
I think sometimes we all get stuck with these marketing shenanigans.
Obviously a price increase anouncement will make people scared and panic buy more than they planned that month... don't fall for that.
Someone said here that if you ignore all of the GW train, for a long time, if you get back into it you realise how silly pricing got. It's really out of touch if you want to do a new army per year... but in reality who, specially vets, needs 1 new full army per year?

That is what works for me, ignore them, dont change your budget, buy what you want/can. Stress free dude.

Billicus wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Worth pointing out that within the UK (where GW is based), inflation is at 3.2% at the time of typing. This time last year? 10.10%.

So price rises are never welcome, but we can’t exclude GW from how the overall economic background works.

There's no rule that says you have to raise your prices at least in line with inflation, it's just a helpful excuse. If anything, raising prices simply because you can is what causes inflation to get out of control.

Duty to shareholders to maximise profits.

Also, why should any company existing in a capitalist system feel obliged to absorb any and all cost of production increases? As I said earlier, GW shouldn’t be separated from the wider financial background.

Finally on this wibble? Food for thought. GW are the sole producer and provider of their wares. Those wares are the world’s most popular tabletop wargames. But GW are not solely responsible for the sale of those goods. Indeed, Page 16 of the latest financial report clearly demonstrates a majority of their sales are through third party channels.

Now, those channels themselves aren’t immune to inflation and increasing costs. Something I don’t think we really stop to consider is what would happen if GW did decide to freeze its prices for a period? Even if the wholesale price was kept frozen, that doesn’t render FLGS and the like immune from the rest of Market Forces. Fluctuations in tax rate, rental, electricity, insurance, staff wages etc.

If that shop can’t maintain its income with inflation, because nobody in their right mind is going to buy at greater than RRP? Where do they go then? Even discounters exist in a competitive market. I buy from one of two FLGS because my mate owns it, and you gotta support your mates. He does offer a discount, but not as deep as online places. And the online places can’t easily reduce their discount, because customers can be lost to competitors who maintained their discount

As ever not a “so STFU”. Just a general post to point out the benefit of increased prices is not GW’s alone.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

Billicus wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Worth pointing out that within the UK (where GW is based), inflation is at 3.2% at the time of typing. This time last year? 10.10%.

So price rises are never welcome, but we can’t exclude GW from how the overall economic background works.

There's no rule that says you have to raise your prices at least in line with inflation, it's just a helpful excuse. If anything, raising prices simply because you can is what causes inflation to get out of control.

Duty to shareholders to maximise profits.

Also, why should any company existing in a capitalist system feel obliged to absorb any and all cost of production increases? As I said earlier, GW shouldn’t be separated from the wider financial background.

Dude with all due respect... there has been huge divergences between companies about the interpretation of capitalism/maximise profits etc Some "get it" better than others but they are all different. I dont think the concepts your are putting on the table here are so black and white as you seem to think.
Many companies have absorbed inflation, many do the "right thing" for the client due to social awareness etc and before you say those are not competitive companies I know one, very well, and its on top 100 so yeah... lets leave those bold claims what capitalism is... out.

Remember folks, they've done everything they could to keep prices down on their pennies on the sprue products. They, um, like, looked in the couch cushions and everything but even with that effort the margins aren't there so they have to increase costs further. Pay no attention to smaller outfits that can make a decent profit on plastic kits at much lower prices that have less bargaining power yet still have to pay even more for shipping and materials... Costs for manufacturers absolutely have gone up but the gouge has always been present in GW costs since the early 90s and will continue to be.

Well…that wasn’t my claim, was it? Or my point.

My point is Price Rises Suck. But because GW doesn’t exist in a vacuum, we can’t reasonably expect them to just absorb any and all increased running costs. And to attempt to illustrate “they’ve raised prices, which means their profits just go up as a result”.

Lots of moving parts, all whirling away at the same time, and no one company can control or influence them all, let alone all at the same time.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Well…that wasn’t my claim, was it? Or my point.

My point is Price Rises Suck. But because GW doesn’t exist in a vacuum, we can’t reasonably expect them to just absorb any and all increased running costs. And to attempt to illustrate “they’ve raised prices, which means their profits just go up as a result”.

Lots of moving parts, all whirling away at the same time, and no one company can control or influence them all, let alone all at the same time.

GW raised always above inflation and then when inflation was just about to catch up they raised the prices again.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Well…that wasn’t my claim, was it? Or my point.

My point is Price Rises Suck. But because GW doesn’t exist in a vacuum, we can’t reasonably expect them to just absorb any and all increased running costs.

I think your ideas of Capitalism and whats expected of a company under this reality is too much based on just the hardcore capitalists tinted reports... almost forgets that no, not all companies should do this just because they exist.
Cynical in us may say that different companies may have a longer therm goals rather than this immediate cash in, but who's to say?

GW can do what they want, specially when they have such monopolistic footprint.

The point is that GW raises prices regularly at higher than average rates REGARDLESS of whether inflation, taxes, logistics, or material costs go up/down/stay the same.

 warboss wrote:
The point is that GW raises prices regularly at higher than average rates REGARDLESS of whether inflation, taxes, logistics, or material costs go up/down/stay the same.

In recent years, price increases haven’t been universal. Certain kits, paint pots and that, yes. But not across the board. Inflation rates are also only an indicator.

Unique to the UK?

The London Economic wrote:In 2022, the sharp rise in energy prices and accompanying inflation dominated headlines and caused significant problems for businesses. [2] On average, businesses experienced a 63% increase in electricity prices and a 124% increase in gas prices between Q3 2021 and Q3 2022.

So many times higher than the overall 10.10% rate of inflation, yes? And not something it’s terribly easy for a manufacturer to economise on. And that’s just one of the moving cogs in one of the countries GW operates in.

Last year, the UK minimum wage increased by more than 10%, and increased again this year. Now that’s not to say “therefore all wages did the same”. I got a 6.5% pay rise if memory serves. We don’t know how much a GW factory worker earns, but that’s still another cog in the grand scheme of things.

Hence my issues with “GW am just the greddy” arguments. When it’s categorically not the sole cause, and far from unique to GW.

The Mouldmaker wrote:Sorry to be the barer of bad news but…
It price rise time.
Metal alloy, shot up by… 33% to me over three months.
So as a result the price of cast 40:60 alloy per kilo will rise to £48.
And… as the last time I put thd moulding prices up was 2016, master moulds will rise to £130 each, and Production to £95 (both 9” moulds)

The Mouldmaker

Mouldmaker did no increase the prices since 2016? and its a family type of company?... So I don't see how that comparison helped defending your point?

Models aside, they've already lost me as a customer for their games. Scrapping my Stormcast army and announcing a price hike isn't exactly enticing me back...

Oh, they're really a models company? Better change their name then...

I used to be bothered by their constant price hikes.

Now, I'm pleased to see them. We know they are locked into the minimum of 9 total releases for the old world, and they will already have shipments from china on the way for much of the printed material for things like boxes and books for the returning plastics and arcane journals for the next 6 of them.

But the quicker they rise the prices and price people out, the quicker they can 'End Times' the setting again. I for one can't wait for another year like 2015-16 again. Where we saw people dumping huge amounts of WFB product for next to nothing on ebay and in 2nd hand stores. When people were dumping their entire collections after feeling betrayed by a company. I honestly can't wait to pick up some real bargains after seeing that happen a second time around.

It’s also worth noting that the frequency and speed things go out of stock indicates that demand currently outstrips supply.

That’s the kind of market that would drive price rises even without the levels of inflation we’ve seen over the past year.

And this is luxury goods, not necessities.

 NAVARRO wrote:
Mouldmaker did no increase the prices since 2016? and its a family type of company?... So I don't see how that comparison helped defending your point?

It popped up on my FB feed, so I decided to share it as a data point. Another data point is that Warlord Games had a bigger price rise last month (and that thread got five comments):

Warlord Games wrote:Important! Upcoming Price Rise

The costs of manufacturing and materials have increased globally over the last couple of years. We have held off on such costs affecting our pricing for as long as possible, but unfortunately it's something we can no longer avoid.

As of 2nd April 2024, a price rise averaging 6%, will be rolled out across all Warlord Games products. Books and third party items will not be affected.

But neither of those companies have had yearly price increases like GW.

Yeah GW seem to be doing great, no argument from me. Making stuff people want and selling all of what they have. A lot of it is really cool stuff too.

Just too pricey for me. I have the luxury of a large collection and plenty of stuff to work on, so I'm not their target customer. But I still get sticker shock when I browse their section in my local shop. And then trundle down to the North Star/Wargames Atlantic/Misc other Sci Fi and Fantasy plastics section and across to Historicals.

The great thing is we've a tremendous wealth of options for 28mm miniatures these days, so if you're more price conscious you can still have a really satisfying hobby if you're not brand-loyal.

No one wants to spend more money, and it’s not GW that drive the market issues all alone.

But I tend to think, I should be able to play with these minis another 30 years if all goes well.
But I do think GW prices are difficult, I been trying to sus out a sisters of silence army and my gods it’s expensive no matter what path taken it feels like.

Charax wrote:
So what's the alternative? Complain about it on a forum?

Is it not complaining about it on a forum? At least we haven't been charged for it I guess, and it took all of 10 seconds, so.... ^^

Regardless, I have too much stuff already and I really should unload stuff instead of buying anything, so I guess it's good for that too.

You can tell people the truth, but they're too busy being big brained to hear it. GW's prices are either too high for a person or they're not. They raise them because they think they can make more money if they do. Inflation and whatever other pretend-PhD-economic-issues forum posters want to bring into it, really don't matter that much.

I always buy from my FLGS anyway so not too fussed but it's still a pain.

Would be nice if it wasn't an annual price increase.

 Snrub wrote:

* In Sweden and Norway, the average price change will be between 8% and 14%.

What did the Swedes and Nords(?) do to deserves such a paddling?

BBC ran an article a couple days ago about how there are 'so many' billionaires in Sweden, ergo everyone can afford it.