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I was kind of thinking similarly about the new philosophies, but it's not like they aren't making bank any time they release a new figure or two.

I would have happily opened up my wallet for access to any new naked sprues a la carte. More Crimson Crocs and King sets for sure, nevermind anything unreleased.

Just got a nice email from KDM that I'm getting charged 36$ for the shipping of a single expansion (the Black Knight), with apparently no real plan from Poots and team to properly package future content in waves to limit shipping costs to backer. To say that I'm angry is an understatement, and I'm very close to cancelling what I've left. I've ordered 21 expansions in what was supposed to be Wave 4, with a listed combined shipping cost of $15 + $3x expansion (so 78$ total) I'm now looking at over 750$ in shipping charges.

CorwinB wrote:
Just got a nice email from KDM that I'm getting charged 36$ for the shipping of a single expansion (the Black Knight), with apparently no real plan from Poots and team to properly package future content in waves to limit shipping costs to backer. To say that I'm angry is an understatement, and I'm very close to cancelling what I've left. I've ordered 21 expansions in what was supposed to be Wave 4, with a listed combined shipping cost of $15 + $3x expansion (so 78$ total) I'm now looking at over 750$ in shipping charges.

I got this too but I don't see anything in Backerkit saying I need to pay more so I'm not sure what's going on.

I had a 20 dollar payment waiting for me, but I would imagine that's due to me being in the states as opposed to Europe.

I'm all for getting this stuff sooner rather than later, but I'm also in the camp of wanting to let some of the expansions ship together instead of getting constant stream of shipping costs.

Due to the large setup, large amount of components and difficulty to get multiple players in one sitting, for me KD: Monster has sat idle. After years and years of waiting for the Lantern box, hoping maybe it would be reignite the interest. The huge amount of components in that 'expansion' just made it a chore.

At this point, I'd just play a Kingdom Death Video Game, think X-Com but with Settlement mechanics.

Yeah, the Gambler's Chest was just, like, a ton of setup. I think my first settlement phase took like 4 hours and was full of writing and then erasing stuff. We got through 6 game years before a new type of random even added an hour to one of our sessions, meaning we couldn't finish it, and then it sat out for a while, until we needed the table for other stuff.

What's so farcical about the whole thing is that even the digital version, from what I understand, is not automated, so it doesn't even avoid the mechanical chore.

I'm honestly vaguely enthusiastic about the Black Knight as both one of my favorite designs and something that comes with a mini-campaign that will hopefully avoid the worst of the Gambler's Chest sprawling bookkeeping slog, but I'm definitely not even up to "cautiously optimistic" at this point.

The idea that this might take another three years to finish delivering, which with the benefit of hindsight may be a bit optimistic, is a little daunting. The proposed "system" of bundling things until you feel like paying for shipping sounds like a logistical nightmare. I love the models, but after the Gambler's Chest arrived with the usual lack of instructions or even a list of contents, I have not been able to muster the effort to even try to figure out what is what after the long wait. Maybe entering the GC painting comp will get things going.

 Monkeysloth wrote:

CorwinB wrote:
Just got a nice email from KDM that I'm getting charged 36$ for the shipping of a single expansion (the Black Knight), with apparently no real plan from Poots and team to properly package future content in waves to limit shipping costs to backer. To say that I'm angry is an understatement, and I'm very close to cancelling what I've left. I've ordered 21 expansions in what was supposed to be Wave 4, with a listed combined shipping cost of $15 + $3x expansion (so 78$ total) I'm now looking at over 750$ in shipping charges.

I got this too but I don't see anything in Backerkit saying I need to pay more so I'm not sure what's going on.

It says in the e-mail "If your Black Knight is part of a bundle which included shipping at the time of purchase, there should be no additional charge appearing on your pledge. If your address is correct and locked, just sit tight and get excited!" won't be charged postage, so presumably that's the difference

Mine sadly, did not

Having a quick look through the Kickstarter comment section, it sounds like they will put aside your Black Knight set to send with the Frogdog one, if you reach out to them and request it.

Not entirely sure this won't just cause more problems later on, but it is an option.

 youwashock wrote:
The idea that this might take another three years to finish delivering, which with the benefit of hindsight may be a bit optimistic, is a little daunting.

IMO theres' no might about it, this is what I'm still waiting on...

Wave 4
Hard Plastic Game Board - In Production
Campaigns of Death - 70% Complete
First Hero Expansion - 60% Complete
Red Witches Expansion - 60% Complete
Death Armor Expansion - 25% Complete
Ivory Dragon Expansion - 20% Complete
Anonymous Survivor - ??? Complete

Those are only a fraction of the Xpacs Poots need to produce and deliver. I have been saying to my mates for the last few years, that this KS will be a 10+ year wait for everything!

After a 6+ year wait, I got fed up with waiting and sold my base game about 12-18 months ago and sold the GC when I received that. I've got the Satan Xpac NIB to list on Ebay at some point and that is where everything else will end up when I finally receive them. The wait certainly sucks for anyone who is still interested in it all!

Unless they start bundling up some of them I can easily see it be ten years from now until we see Wave 4 finished.

Someone mentioned there are 21 expansions left. They'd need to release them at a rate of 4 every year, one a quarter, to even get them all out in five years. And that feels massively optimistic to me. I think a rate of two expansions a year is more likely.

Unfortunately while it's good people are finally getting something, it also massively takes the pressure off them to actually finish everything. Because they no longer have to finish everything before they can start what they have finished.

Did the Kickstarter had any dates goals info etc? A decade seems beyond ridiculous.

deano2099 wrote:Unless they start bundling up some of them I can easily see it be ten years from now until we see Wave 4 finished.

Someone mentioned there are 21 expansions left. They'd need to release them at a rate of 4 every year, one a quarter, to even get them all out in five years. And that feels massively optimistic to me. I think a rate of two expansions a year is more likely.

Unfortunately while it's good people are finally getting something, it also massively takes the pressure off them to actually finish everything. Because they no longer have to finish everything before they can start what they have finished.

21, That's a hell of a lot left to do!

NAVARRO wrote:Did the Kickstarter had any dates goals info etc? A decade seems beyond ridiculous.

Original delivery date was Dec 2020 and it ran from Nov 25 2016 - Jan 7 2017 (43 days).

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/poots/kingdom-death-monster-15/description

 NAVARRO wrote:
Did the Kickstarter had any dates goals info etc? A decade seems beyond ridiculous.

Wave 1 - Estimated Delivery Summer 2017 Core Game / 1.5 Update Pack
Core game reprint

Wave 2 - Estimated Delivery Winter 2017 (Still hoping for Summer 2017)
Existing expansions reprint

Wave 3 - Estimated Delivery Spring 2018
Gambler's Box, Promo and cross-over figures

Wave 4 - Estimated Delivery Spring 2019
New Expansions

Wave 5 & Beyond - Estimated Delivery Winter 2020
Anything new added in the campaign

At the end of last year, seven years on from the campaign, they finally delivered (most) of wave 3, which was the first actual new content (if you don't count the few extra bits in the reprinted core box). They never actually added anything to Wave 5, all the remaining stuff was tagged as "Wave 4".

Now of course, most people getting into this had seen what had happened in the first campaign and knew that solid timescales were not something the team were good at. I think we all thought well, we can probably add on a year or two. Some of us were brave enough to say "yeah, maybe double those estimates, it'll probably take them six years to deliver all that, not three". And we'd get stick for that as yeah, they are bad but not that bad, even for a worse-case scenario. But not of us really expected, seven years on, for them to have only delivered one new product.

The weird thing is, many people (including me to some extent) have been thinking "yeah, but we got a good deal on the campaign, so even if it's really late, it'll be worth it" - but if it's going to cost $30+ to have every expansion shipped to you... that's approaching 70-80% of what people spent on the campaign to start with. So the value argument starts to vanish too.

Now of course, most people getting into this had seen what had happened in the first campaign and knew that solid timescales were not something the team were good at. I think we all thought well, we can probably add on a year or two. Some of us were brave enough to say "yeah, maybe double those estimates, it'll probably take them six years to deliver all that, not three". And we'd get stick for that as yeah, they are bad but not that bad, even for a worse-case scenario. But not of us really expected, seven years on, for them to have only delivered one new product.

This is one of the things that irks me with the white knights doing their best to defend Poots & KDM in forums, KS comments... "Oh, you should have been expecting this, everyone knows Poots is not good with guidelines, look at the first KS.". But even the most pessimistic estimations, based on the first KS delivering late, were beaten by Poots unbelievable scope creep (sorry ,"vision") and self-indulgence for the Gambler's Chest

Yeah - I love the art and vibe of Kingdom Death - but as a company? They are beyond #!@ked.

I got my pledge refunded like two years ago and am very glad I did.

> "Oh, you should have been expecting this, everyone knows Poots is not good with guidelines, look at the first KS.". But even the most pessimistic estimations, based on the first KS delivering late, were beaten by Poots unbelievable scope creep (sorry ,"vision" and self-indulgence for the Gambler's Chest

Well, really, you SHOULD expect all of this, given the Lantern's Whatever snafu and pages of dissatisfaction on Dakka. There's no reason why a KS creator would change their spots when they've funded their project.(Hi, Gamezone!

For some KS creators, retail is an alternative. I regularly pass on boardgame KS, if I think the game or something similar to appear retail. You can already buy KDM stuff from their webstore, so if you didn't want to wait on your prepayment (and the ever-present risk of a KS project going belly up), you wait for retail. The prices would be higher, but it's not like that's unexpected, either.

As a min/max'er and someone who has too many games in the queue, I went with the base + Gambler's Chest + update pack. While I don't have "everything", I have the most content for a good price, and am done with KDM, unless he runs another KS in ten or twenty years.

Not sure why he writes this stuff on a comment section that barely gets visitors these days, instead of putting out an e-mail or KS update, but here's the latest word from Poots on fulfilment of the remaining expansions:-

General Kickstarter Fulfillment Update

We are planning on finishing this kickstarter over the course of the next 3 years, with a total of 4 - 6 more rounds of shipping.

We hear and understand the tension point that increased shipping rates (due to an ever changing and challenging climate of logistics and global supply chains issues) and are working towards ways we can ease this in the future.

Thank you in advance for your understanding.

Highly sceptical of a 3 year timeline, unless most of these expansions are a lot more finished than previously indicated.

Holy gak, 3 more years!???

I don't have a dog in this fight, but Kingdom Death really feels like a pyramid scheme at this point.

Three years? Is he sculpting each and every model by hand individually?

 Manfred von Drakken wrote:
I don't have a dog in this fight, but Kingdom Death really feels like a pyramid scheme at this point.

Three years? Is he sculpting each and every model by hand individually?

Haha, same. I check this thread out of morbid fascination, is there even a real game to play? The whole thing seems like a scam people complain about.

 Prometheum5 wrote:

 Manfred von Drakken wrote:
I don't have a dog in this fight, but Kingdom Death really feels like a pyramid scheme at this point.

Three years? Is he sculpting each and every model by hand individually?

Haha, same. I check this thread out of morbid fascination, is there even a real game to play? The whole thing seems like a scam people complain about.

Yeah, I didn't buy into anything either. The thread rising from the dead every couple months to remind me I made the right choice has been fun. Morbid fascination. Really shows how much crap people will take if you are effective at selling hopium.

I think thicc booby gal models play into it to a degree as well. Scammers traditionally love to play with people's thirst(s)

Schmapdi wrote:
I got my pledge refunded like two years ago and am very glad I did.

So did I, but they still send me the gamblers chest. And apparently the black knight expansion as well. For paying just shipping it seems like a good deal

It's not a scam. Scammers don't actually make something huge like the Gambler's Chest and send it out. They've past the point where it was sensible to run off with the money.

It's just massive incompetence, coupled with a community so rabid that they genuinely believe their approach is okay. It's why it's so interesting.

MoD_Legion wrote:

Schmapdi wrote:
I got my pledge refunded like two years ago and am very glad I did.

So did I, but they still send me the gamblers chest. And apparently the black knight expansion as well. For paying just shipping it seems like a good deal

Same here, was pretty surprised when I got the Gamblers Chest shipping notification.

Sounds like the best deal in modern gaming! I'd be ok with waiting years if I'm only paying for shipping when it happens.

 ImAGeek wrote:

MoD_Legion wrote:

Schmapdi wrote:
I got my pledge refunded like two years ago and am very glad I did.

So did I, but they still send me the gamblers chest. And apparently the black knight expansion as well. For paying just shipping it seems like a good deal

Same here, was pretty surprised when I got the Gamblers Chest shipping notification.

Dang!
I gave them a heads up when they tried to send me a Gamblers Chest, I figured they'd catch on anyways and didn't want a whole thing with getting the shipping refunded, seems like I should've just stayed quiet.

chaos0xomega wrote:
Holy gak, 3 more years!???

3 more years announced by Poots = my great-grand children may be receiving this or not. Let's not forget the initially announced plan was an absolute worst case of 2020 for delivery of everything. I plan to stick up to Campaigns of Death and then ask for a refund of what's left of Wave 4.

 Prometheum5 wrote:

 Manfred von Drakken wrote:
I don't have a dog in this fight, but Kingdom Death really feels like a pyramid scheme at this point.

Three years? Is he sculpting each and every model by hand individually?

Haha, same. I check this thread out of morbid fascination, is there even a real game to play? The whole thing seems like a scam people complain about.

There is actually a game at the centre of all of it. Someone in my regular group backed it and we played it a grand total of once.

It is one of those sort of long-form campaign games that's a pain to organize and get everyone in on. If you don't make it the thing you are playing exclusively, then it is kind of a bust. Given that only one person in the group playing is likely to actually own the thing it can be tough to actually get a group to buy-in on the concept of playing a psycho-sexual horror village building/monster-hunting boardgame where only one person in the group is likely to even remember what is going on from session to session. The rest of the group ends up just being along for the ride and that gets old quick.

It is definitely one of those things he regrets backing because of that (plus the wait times). It's one of those old-school KS super-projects that used to be all the rage writ large(r). It was huge, laden with bonuses and scope creep, it was such a good deal... that will sit in a corner gathering dust for most of the people that backed it. Everything trickled out so slowly that most people were done with the actual game part before most of it even got released.

Not a scam, but an abject lesson in why project management is an important skill and why KS backers need to beware of highly successful KS campaigns. Even when they succeed and deliver, there is an even chance that you saved money on a bunch of plastic you end up having no use for.

I'm glad I learned my lesson on these things after only a couple of mistakes, and those were ones that all fully delivered in a much more reasonable time-frame than KD:M.