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ok i just want some imput, in a 1 on 1 fight who would be crowned the daddy of all the primarchs?? :mad:   I would go for russ, but then i collect the wolves.

Although there is no way to prove who is the toughest, I would pick Angron. Sanguinius had an amazing reputation and crushed a bloodthirster-lord. I believe that in "Horus Rising" Fulgrim was also highly regarded for his martial prowess.

Darrian

I read a bit of fluff somewhere about the Primarch of the Imperial Fists (Rogal Dorn?). I read it about a year ago, so it's probably riddled with innaccuracy. The story goes that Rogal Dorn met his end when he crash landed onto an Ork-held planet. His surviving command squad was wiped out within hours, but he held on for days and days. When he finally died, the Orks marked the site, as they wanted to pay respect to the greatest warrior they had ever seen. Around his grave they placed the skulls of all the Orks he killed, and they streched to the horizon in all directions.

Anyway, I think that might make him the winner in this hypothetical contest, but I just really like the Imperial Fists.

Are you sure about that one?

I've never heard it... And I'm fairly sure that Dorn met his (alleged) end attacking a Chaos Battle Cruiser or some such.

All that could be found was his hand, leading to theories (of course!) that the rest of him is OK, somewhere else....

Anyway, I'm going to vote Sanguinius, for many reasons, but mostly because he did what needed to be done, knowing full well what it would cost him (I also like the story that states he weakend Horus' armor enough to helped the Emperor eventually defeat him, though I cannot remember the specifics!)...

the story about DORN is actiully a copy from the original space wolves codex wher a wolf gaurd leader had all his squad killed by a massive ork warband, the wolf gaurd leader held them up for days untill he was overrun and then the orks left wargear and stuff to appease his spirit. true.

As for sanguinius he did not beet the bloodthirster, if you read horus heresy visions of war it clearly state that the blood thirster bested him and then left killing 500 blood angels in his wake, the shock of so many of his sons knocked sanguinius unconcious. ok he did sacrifice himself so the emeporer could live but i said whos the toughest?? not bravest as he well could be the bravest (or dumbest)

Angron was just a beserker russ could have beeten him, he beet magnus, horus beat sang, and fulgrim beet gulemen so it would be a toss off between them 3.

@Beef, The original version of the Horus Heresy was written in the "Horus Heresy" boxed game. I still have a copy of it (published 1993). The version told there has Sanguinius KILLING the bloodthirster.

Your statement that Russ could beat Angron is pure speculation. Magnus was a psyker supreme, I seriously doubt he focussed much on martial prowess. As to Horus beating Sang, Horus was greatly enhanced by all 4 chaos powers by the time he faced Sang, he was not mearly a primarch. Lastly, Fulgrim did beat Guilleman and I would LOVE to read that fluff. I have always disliked Guilleman.

Darrian

Russ didn't beat Magnus. The Wolves bombarded the Thousand sons homeworld, but most escaped, and Magnus is still alive in the eye of terror as a daemon prince.

I'd say Night Haunter. He was as bad as anyone could hope for. He attacked Dorn before the Heresy, knocking him flying and ripping bits out of his chest. Now THAT is hard.

Sanguinus definitely killed the Bloodthirster. He snapped its back over his knee at the battle for the Palace. And he managed to do some damage to Horus, in the space of probably a few days. Maybe he was the hardest........

Beef - watch out when dining on the new fluff!

It really isn't all that good...

Yea - I don't tend to take the 'visions of ...' books as canon. They change quite a lot of stuff - I much prefer the idea of Sanguinius taking out a bloodthirster!

As far as which primarch is toughest, I think Horus could own them all, even when he was a loyalist.

Leman Russ. come on, he's a Primarch AND a Viking

Im surprised that no one has mentioned Horus as the toughest of the primarchs...I mean cummon he almost killed the Emperor right after killing Sanguinius. That takes some mad skills.

I wouldn't say Russ because he fought the Lion to a stand still and then got knocked out by a sucker punch.

Horus did all of that with a little help from his friends! (Khorne, Tzeentch, Nurgle and Slaanesh!)

Night Haunter was killed by an Imperial Assassin...... I'd hardly call that an ending for the "toughest primarch". The answer is clearly me, Angron. For is Khorne not the most powerful Chaos God...... and would Khorne not make his most precious servant his most powerful servant..... so the most powerful servant of the most powerful god = the most powerful person who is not a god. Besides..... you need to be more specific...... strongest I'm going with Angron.... most ferocious= Russ..... but "Toughest" would be the nurgle primarch.... I forget his name.... after all.... he did go with nurgle.... whose bonus is +1 toughness.... ( and yes, I know the fluff about him being trapped in a warpstorm on his ship and all of his men falling prey to disease and him making a bargain for release of the warpstorm and plague..... but the god of decay.... and toughness had to of sought him out for some reason)

I wouldn't say Russ because he fought the Lion to a stand still and then got knocked out by a sucker punch.

Whoever said the Lion was a tough person?

Im surprised that no one has mentioned Horus as the toughest of the primarchs...I mean cummon he almost killed the Emperor right after killing Sanguinius. That takes some mad skills.

Horus was by far the best in martial combat.... it states that.... but that's because I am just a little crazy and feroucious to think tactically when I fight. And yes, Horus had a little help from all the Chaos gods... but let's not forget that Sanguinius was just a little fairy boy. I mean.... isn't he described as the most beautiful of the primarchs? Seems a little feminem if you ask me.

So in a one on one fight... I'm going for Horus..... in a one vs. many fight.... me

By method of elimination let us remove those who have been defeated:

Rogal Dorn - Defeated by Night Haunter and baited into a trap by Peturabo
Night Haunter - Killed by M'Shen
Roboute Guilliman - Killed by Fulgrim
Ferrus Manus - Killed by Fulgrim
Sanguinus - Killed by Horus
Magnus the Red - Defeated by Leman Russ
Leman Russ - Defeated by Lion El'Johnson
Lion El'Johnson - Defeated by Luthor

I'd say Fulgrim's pretty badass.  Left off Horus since the Emperor is obviously UBER.

 

Angron, by your reasoning, if the Lion wasn't a tough person, then neither was Russ, as their fight was exactly even up to the end(when Russ laughed and El'Jonson slugged him).

Posted By keezus on 05/25/2006 9:54 AM

By method of elimination let us remove those who have been defeated:

Rogal Dorn - Defeated by Night Haunter and baited into a trap by Peturabo
Night Haunter - Killed by M'Shen
Roboute Guilliman - Killed by Fulgrim
Ferrus Manus - Killed by Fulgrim
Sanguinus - Killed by Horus
Magnus the Red - Defeated by Leman Russ
Leman Russ - Defeated by Lion El'Johnson
Lion El'Johnson - Defeated by Luthor

I'd say Fulgrim's pretty badass.  Left off Horus since the Emperor is obviously UBER.

 

No way did the Lion defeet the wolf,  the wolf allowed the lion as he thought honour had been served and the lion did knock him out but when he was not expecting it,  treacherous dark angels, cant trust them.  i said fair fight, not sucker punch when nobody is looking.  whoever said not to trust the new fluff is correct.  but i have read 3 versions of sanguinius death, on where he kills a bloddthirster, one wher he gets killed by a blood thirster and one where he get knocked out by one.  but i gues GW just change stuff as an when they feel like and sometime they dont make sence just like there prices

@Keezus, Damn, I guess the prize would have to go to Fulgrim. After all, he is 2-0 vs Primarchs. That is a pretty damn good record. I guess only the Emperor has a better record than that since he had to defeat many of them to get them to follow him.

Darrian

Yup, that would be my reasoning alright. I'm not saying they weren't tough.... they are primarchs.... just not the toughest...

And not one blood angel player is mad about me calling their primarch a fairy boy?!

okay, so maybe the Slaneesh Guy is the toughest Primarch...
the wolf and the Lion are waaaaaaaaaaaaay cooler

Posted By Angron on 05/24/2006 10:38 PM
Night Haunter was killed by an Imperial Assassin...... I'd hardly call that an ending for the "toughest primarch".

Night Haunter arranged for the assassin to kill him, and knew the assassin would. So that doesn't count as him being weak... if you exclude Horus, then Night Haunter. Never was beat, except by his own design.

And why would anyone want to die so that their soul could be torn apart and consumed for all eternity? No no my friend.... I believe that the Night Haunter knew he was going to be killed by the assassin, that there was no way to escape it, but not that he planned his death..... no one, not even chaos is that insane (besides berserkers)

I don't think it's fair to say that a Loyal Primarch being defeated by a traitor Primarch post-heresy is meaningful of anything.

Lets just say that all Primarchs have a number. That number is two. Two resembles their strengths, toughness, etc... Now you take those 9 who went to chaos. Chaos took that two, then gave it another 1 or 2 on top of that. The traitor Primarchs still maintained all of the skills and strengths that they had when they were human, and then had them enhanced by chaos's abilities. The loyal Primarchs had to rely solely upon their skills. That is why there is no story of a loyal primarch defeating a traitor primarch in 1 on 1 combat. It would be like throwing a Guardsmen at a Marine (not quite like that, but you get the point).

A better measurement of their abilities would be to compair them before the Heresy, when they were all on par with each other.

djones has a good point. No weapons, no chaos assistance, just one-on-one straight up bare-knuckle.
As he Night Haunter, I have no idea if he arranged for the assassin to kill him (I doubt it) but he did know that she was coming and allowed her to kill him, as he believed it justified everything he had ever said against the Imperium. There's a qoute floating around somewhere.

I'd have to agree, Nighthaunter willing let himself die.

So he technically wasn't defeated.

 

Oh and if you don't want to count Leman getting beaten by Lion because of a sucker punch, I would argue that Magnus was hit by a similar sucker punch i.e. a cheesey kick to the eye by Leman.

Man, that Leman was a pansy.